I was just thinking that if we were to consider fantasy, specially fantasy movies, including sci-fi movies then we find that even though they are fantasy we seem unable to transcend the limits of our own mind. All are fantasies have some kind of base in the reality around us. Is it for this reason that we imagine aliens with faces, which in ways mirror our own. Science fiction does try to push these boundaries but they are rooted in some kind of reality I believe. So whats everyone's take on the same?
Elements of reality in fantasy
Without some basis in reality you would not be able to relate to the elements of the story. For a story (like a movie or novel) to be engaging you have to be able to sympathize to some degree with the protagonist. If it were completely alien from your experience you would find no connection with the story and you probably wouldn't watch it... or most people wouldn't, and it would make no money.
Personally I like the fantasy and sci-fi stories that are only slightly removed from our reality, like Charles DeLint's urban fantasies, or Stephen King's horror. Especially Stephen King, because so much of his work starts with average ordinary people in average American small towns and his monsters don't just jump out and yell "Boo!" It starts with something just slightly off kilter, just enough to give you a rising feeling of tension that grows as the story unfolds.
I also like stories that take "real world" people and put them in fantasy or sci-fi situations, mainly because I can identify more with the "real world" person who has just been sucked into a situation outside his or her experience and now has to deal with it. It lets me put myself into the story because I have a similar frame of reference as the main character. Like S.M. Stirling's Emberverse series where all technology just suddenly stops working in 1998, and people find themselves thrust back into having to live in a pre-industrial setting and have to readjust the ways their societies are structured to survive.
Another example is the TV series "Supernatural" about two brothers that travel around modern day America fighting ghosts and demons and vampires and werewolves and other bumps in the night. The world of that show is our world, but with something darker hidden in the shadows.
But even if a "pure" sci-fi, like Star Wars, set in a galaxy far, far away, and with completely alien technology, the people are still people. They still laugh and love and hate and fear and joke and have motivations that are recognizable and that people can identify and sympathize with, which is what makes those movies so awesome. You could understand the characters and their motivations, and so you could come to care for them, too, and root for the Rebel Alliance to win, and wince when Leia insulted Han (Who's scruffy looking?) and cry when Darth Vader became Anakin again and saved his son, doing what little he could to repent for all the evil he had done.
I find that even if the initial premise of a story sounds interesting, if the setting is too far removed from our reality, and if the motivations of the characters are too far outside my experience I will quickly loose interest in the story.
Personally I like the fantasy and sci-fi stories that are only slightly removed from our reality, like Charles DeLint's urban fantasies, or Stephen King's horror. Especially Stephen King, because so much of his work starts with average ordinary people in average American small towns and his monsters don't just jump out and yell "Boo!" It starts with something just slightly off kilter, just enough to give you a rising feeling of tension that grows as the story unfolds.
I also like stories that take "real world" people and put them in fantasy or sci-fi situations, mainly because I can identify more with the "real world" person who has just been sucked into a situation outside his or her experience and now has to deal with it. It lets me put myself into the story because I have a similar frame of reference as the main character. Like S.M. Stirling's Emberverse series where all technology just suddenly stops working in 1998, and people find themselves thrust back into having to live in a pre-industrial setting and have to readjust the ways their societies are structured to survive.
Another example is the TV series "Supernatural" about two brothers that travel around modern day America fighting ghosts and demons and vampires and werewolves and other bumps in the night. The world of that show is our world, but with something darker hidden in the shadows.
But even if a "pure" sci-fi, like Star Wars, set in a galaxy far, far away, and with completely alien technology, the people are still people. They still laugh and love and hate and fear and joke and have motivations that are recognizable and that people can identify and sympathize with, which is what makes those movies so awesome. You could understand the characters and their motivations, and so you could come to care for them, too, and root for the Rebel Alliance to win, and wince when Leia insulted Han (Who's scruffy looking?) and cry when Darth Vader became Anakin again and saved his son, doing what little he could to repent for all the evil he had done.
I find that even if the initial premise of a story sounds interesting, if the setting is too far removed from our reality, and if the motivations of the characters are too far outside my experience I will quickly loose interest in the story.
We are bound by our own mortal minds, which aren't that sophisticated. Once we are able to modify them at will (maybe with the use of implants) we will be able to kinda transcend into another state. I remember my physics teacher talking about this same issue a couple of years ago. He mentioned that some really old science fiction writer saw the future as vast cities, exploding with telegraph wires... Just because he wasn't able to image another way, or even dream of wireless technologies.
I believe that there comes a point where people just make a kind of 'jump'. Twenty years ago nobody would believe you about the popularity of wifi. Nowadays people couldn't live without the luxury of no damn wires all around their homes.
But on the other side, look how many other inventions failed. Things that today are forgotten, only remembered by someone in the know and they're only a curiousity to them. The average Joe never heard of them and never will.
I believe that there comes a point where people just make a kind of 'jump'. Twenty years ago nobody would believe you about the popularity of wifi. Nowadays people couldn't live without the luxury of no damn wires all around their homes.
But on the other side, look how many other inventions failed. Things that today are forgotten, only remembered by someone in the know and they're only a curiousity to them. The average Joe never heard of them and never will.
Fantasy is a daydream, I think.... you imagine yourself (or more interesting fake people) in someplace more exciting, strange and fantastic than the day to day drag. I loved fantasy novels and daydreaming in high-school... it was a great escape! But totally based in something familiar, as someone said above.
But actual dreams really often push the limits of reality. I have had the strangest incomprehensible views and sensations at times in dreams. I like them best that way...
Although I've long abandoned them (and wouldn't recommend them), psychedelic drugs can really twist reality and imagination into incredible shapes far outside the usual box as well.
But these days I find everyday reality is vastly more interesting, complex and beautiful than any imaginary story. It's just so weird that we are talking, graceful apes with protein strands flowing out of our scalps... and that seemingly ordinary calm people start screaming like banshees at rock concerts!! I could go on with examples like this all day.
But actual dreams really often push the limits of reality. I have had the strangest incomprehensible views and sensations at times in dreams. I like them best that way...
Although I've long abandoned them (and wouldn't recommend them), psychedelic drugs can really twist reality and imagination into incredible shapes far outside the usual box as well.
But these days I find everyday reality is vastly more interesting, complex and beautiful than any imaginary story. It's just so weird that we are talking, graceful apes with protein strands flowing out of our scalps... and that seemingly ordinary calm people start screaming like banshees at rock concerts!! I could go on with examples like this all day.
You are right but please understand that
there are elements of fantasy in reality and more importantly there are elements of reality in fantacy
how about that!?
there are elements of fantasy in reality and more importantly there are elements of reality in fantacy
how about that!?
These days, it's more sci-fi than fantasy, what with robot rovers on Mars, computers you can carry in your pocket (iPhone), flying cars [url] http://www.popsci.com/node/25138 [/url] (of a sort), bionic prostheses, a permanent space station - all the things that seemed like products of the overactive imaginations of science fiction writers only twenty years ago.
It's harder to find elements of fantasy in real life... unless you hang out at Pagan gatherings, SCA events, and Ren-Faires.
Though I do sometimes swear that there are gremlins in my truck, just waiting for the worst possible moment to make it break down. And mischievous fairies, too, that keep hiding my ink pens.
It's harder to find elements of fantasy in real life... unless you hang out at Pagan gatherings, SCA events, and Ren-Faires.
Though I do sometimes swear that there are gremlins in my truck, just waiting for the worst possible moment to make it break down. And mischievous fairies, too, that keep hiding my ink pens.
What do you mean by pagan gatherings?
| yagnyavalkya wrote: |
| What do you mean by pagan gatherings? |
Wiccan, Asatru, and neo-pagan festivals. Some of the larger ones can get quite fantastic. Neo-pagans gather from all over the region, or even country depending on the size and importance of the festival, and things tend to get a little surreal. Neo-tribal groups, neo-Celtic and neo-Norse warriors, drumming and bardic circles, Sabbat or Esbat rituals, magical workings, trade in everything from silver jewelry to hand forged weaponry to dried herbs and wands. People walking about in robes with staves and stangs. Neo-hippies with dreadlocks and hemp-fiber clothing. The smell of campfires and incense, the tinkling of bells and deep thrum of drums. dancing and worshiping. It's an amazing feast of the senses and an Alice's trip of strange spiritual and religious culture overlapping and sharing and coming together to celebrate.
Now the question arises, what are these elements of reality that we keep seeing in fantasy movies. There's love and hate, the fight between good and evil, the idea of some supreme being in control or command (okay this one is questionable. But i'd probably talk about The Matrix and how neo was the chosen one. What other real elements do we see in fantasy movies.
| ainieas wrote: |
| Now the question arises, what are these elements of reality that we keep seeing in fantasy movies. There's love and hate, the fight between good and evil, the idea of some supreme being in control or command (okay this one is questionable. But i'd probably talk about The Matrix and how neo was the chosen one. What other real elements do we see in fantasy movies. |
True, but like in the rest of the world, and in nature, these feelings wax and wane all the time. Right now there seems to be a force of violence in movies, i.e. people are always fighting to the death, the more gruesome the better. All you have to do is go to the DVD movie rental places and see what people are interested in. Violence seems to be popular, vampire movies these days are really in demand.
| deanhills wrote: | ||
True, but like in the rest of the world, and in nature, these feelings wax and wane all the time. Right now there seems to be a force of violence in movies, i.e. people are always fighting to the death, the more gruesome the better. All you have to do is go to the DVD movie rental places and see what people are interested in. Violence seems to be popular, vampire movies these days are really in demand. |
Actually I wanted to know what are the recurring themes that we see in fantasy movies that keep them grounded to the "real" world.
| ainieas wrote: |
| Actually I wanted to know what are the recurring themes that we see in fantasy movies that keep them grounded to the "real" world. |
OK, I understand. Probably war between nations, love, jealousy, sacrifice among people, conflict and drama among people, typical environmental problems that have manifested themselves such as no more green on earth, wisdom, concept of time, life and death.
| deanhills wrote: | ||
OK, I understand. Probably war between nations, love, jealousy, sacrifice among people, conflict and drama among people, typical environmental problems that have manifested themselves such as no more green on earth, wisdom, concept of time, life and death. |
And why do you think do we not venture to anything other than these recurring themes? Is it because if we actually venture into something unknown and really fantastic, the audience won't be able to relate to the movie?
| ainieas wrote: |
| And why do you think do we not venture to anything other than these recurring themes? Is it because if we actually venture into something unknown and really fantastic, the audience won't be able to relate to the movie? |
Depends on what it ventures into. If people are comfortable with it, it can be a learning experience, may even motivate people to change. For example, new construction of houses, I saw an animated movie last night where the house was constructed as a flimsy platform on a mobile mechanical winch. Think we could actually learn from it.
| deanhills wrote: | ||
Depends on what it ventures into. If people are comfortable with it, it can be a learning experience, may even motivate people to change. For example, new construction of houses, I saw an animated movie last night where the house was constructed as a flimsy platform on a mobile mechanical winch. Think we could actually learn from it. |
Hey can you plz name the movie.
| ainieas wrote: |
| Hey can you plz name the movie. |
Fantasy looks an awful lot like our reality, because it makes it more easy to relate. For something more outside the box, check out a local art gallery and go to the abstract sections. Watch the impressions they give to you or to others. What stories do they say to you? Of course we are still limited by our own perceptions, but everyone's perception of it would be different... or maybe it wouldn't, and either way it's an interesting evaluation of your ties with reality through something that might not look like it.
| Dean_The_Great wrote: |
| Fantasy looks an awful lot like our reality, because it makes it more easy to relate. For something more outside the box, check out a local art gallery and go to the abstract sections. Watch the impressions they give to you or to others. What stories do they say to you? Of course we are still limited by our own perceptions, but everyone's perception of it would be different... or maybe it wouldn't, and either way it's an interesting evaluation of your ties with reality through something that might not look like it. |
Good point, the world that we see "beyond our own vision" may be our fantasy and/or someone else's fantasy. Reminds me of Plato's cave when someone is imprisoned and cannot walk around, but can only see shadows agains the wall of a cave, and that is his/her perception of the truth.
| Quote: |
| The Allegory of the Cave, also commonly known as Myth of the Cave, Metaphor of the Cave or the Parable of the Cave, is an allegory used by the Greek philosopher Plato in his work The Republic to illustrate "our nature in its education and want of education". (514a) The allegory of the cave is written as a fictional dialogue between Plato's teacher Socrates and Plato's brother Glaucon, at the beginning of Book VII (514a–520a).
Plato imagines a group of people who have lived chained in a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of the cave entrance, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Plato, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to seeing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall are not constitutive of reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave
This concept has its deep roots in history. How? Simply saying legends! Legends and myths were once true stories modified by adding or subtracting. Some of them were just made up, but it had some true basis though at the time it were made. In the end, all what we have is a sort of fantasy that we just call a myth or a legend!
To my point of view, statements like 'there is nothing new under the sun' are true. Some say that man can NOT create, that is, in fantasy people just modify reality into a new unfamiliar forms.
The second point is: How can you understand a fantasy if it is completely strange or novel to you?
Third point: What is the source of fantasy? or alternatively Why we use (like) fantasy in the first place? Fantasy usually try to anticipate the future the way we like, or outlook the dangers that might face us as humans. Sometimes we use fantasy to recreate history! If was in someone's shoes in the past, I would do this or that. From this simple concept, fantasy will always revolve around a base of reality.
A friend of mine described lies from the same perspective as follows: "No matter how high a tree of fantasy (lies) can reach, its seed was nothing but a pure truth".
To my point of view, statements like 'there is nothing new under the sun' are true. Some say that man can NOT create, that is, in fantasy people just modify reality into a new unfamiliar forms.
The second point is: How can you understand a fantasy if it is completely strange or novel to you?
Third point: What is the source of fantasy? or alternatively Why we use (like) fantasy in the first place? Fantasy usually try to anticipate the future the way we like, or outlook the dangers that might face us as humans. Sometimes we use fantasy to recreate history! If was in someone's shoes in the past, I would do this or that. From this simple concept, fantasy will always revolve around a base of reality.
A friend of mine described lies from the same perspective as follows: "No matter how high a tree of fantasy (lies) can reach, its seed was nothing but a pure truth".
| TrueFact wrote: |
| This concept has its deep roots in history. How? Simply saying legends! Legends and myths were once true stories modified by adding or subtracting. Some of them were just made up, but it had some true basis though at the time it were made. In the end, all what we have is a sort of fantasy that we just call a myth or a legend!
To my point of view, statements like 'there is nothing new under the sun' are true. Some say that man can NOT create, that is, in fantasy people just modify reality into a new unfamiliar forms. The second point is: How can you understand a fantasy if it is completely strange or novel to you? Third point: What is the source of fantasy? or alternatively Why we use (like) fantasy in the first place? Fantasy usually try to anticipate the future the way we like, or outlook the dangers that might face us as humans. Sometimes we use fantasy to recreate history! If was in someone's shoes in the past, I would do this or that. From this simple concept, fantasy will always revolve around a base of reality. A friend of mine described lies from the same perspective as follows: "No matter how high a tree of fantasy (lies) can reach, its seed was nothing but a pure truth". |
That is so true. How often do we hear the same story, but with different facts in them, going on from one century to the other. All the basics of war for example is always the same. Including the reasons for war, which are always very creative by politicians, and people who have this basic need to fight with one another, and at the same time to be at peace.
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