It appears that it is not only the US Wall Street which needs bailouts. Seems like entire countries are facing bankruptcies. The Telegraph has this article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3174217/Financial-crisis-Countries-at-risk-of-bankruptcy-from-Pakistan-to-Baltics.html
Some of the countries under the scanner:
1. Iceland
2. Pakistan
3. Ukraine
4. Hungary
5. Kazhakstan
6. Argentina
I think this is a financial meltdown of unprecedented proportions. Fellow Frihosters have any idea of how things will shape up in this world if entire countries go under? Let us use this thread to discuss possibilities and ways you think can help in avoiding this mess / steps which must have been taken earlier in hindsight. | ganesh wrote: |
It appears that it is not only the US Wall Street which needs bailouts. Seems like entire countries are facing bankruptcies. The Telegraph has this article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3174217/Financial-crisis-Countries-at-risk-of-bankruptcy-from-Pakistan-to-Baltics.html
Some of the countries under the scanner:
1. Iceland
2. Pakistan
3. Ukraine
4. Hungary
5. Kazhakstan
6. Argentina
I think this is a financial meltdown of unprecedented proportions. Fellow Frihosters have any idea of how things will shape up in this world if entire countries go under? Let us use this thread to discuss possibilities and ways you think can help in avoiding this mess / steps which must have been taken earlier in hindsight. |
Possibility the way it can end: Have the bankers on a tight leash.... damn the bankers... they cause everything wars, poverty, chaos, financial meltdown, debt, everything is their fault.
We can't get rid of bankers, but y not make them exist so they serve more the people rather than their CEOs and other big fishes.C'mon, the bankers are no worse than any other drug pushers.
The crack dealer pushes crack on crack heads, the bankers push low cost money on conehead type "consume mass quantities" folk who measure their own self worth in the crap they buy.
See the great JibJab.com parody "Big Box Mart": (like O Susanah)
Oh Big Box Mart,
See what you've done to me.
And now my house is full of junk,
and it used to be empty.
It's the consumers/ voters who want to spend money as if they are rich, even if it is more than they make. Spending & shopping feel good.
It's the spending addicts who are the root cause, and bankers are just the cash pushers.
Of course, if half of all bankers lose their jobs and companies, it won't be a big loss to the real / non-financial world.
| TomGrey wrote: |
C'mon, the bankers are no worse than any other drug pushers.
The crack dealer pushes crack on crack heads, the bankers push low cost money on conehead type "consume mass quantities" folk who measure their own self worth in the crap they buy.
See the great JibJab.com parody "Big Box Mart": (like O Susanah)
Oh Big Box Mart,
See what you've done to me.
And now my house is full of junk,
and it used to be empty.
It's the consumers/ voters who want to spend money as if they are rich, even if it is more than they make. Spending & shopping feel good.
It's the spending addicts who are the root cause, and bankers are just the cash pushers.
Of course, if half of all bankers lose their jobs and companies, it won't be a big loss to the real / non-financial world. |
I understand it is a two-way process, and of course those who take a loan are in no way innocent and do bear most of the guilt.
But the bankers are in no way innocent also. It is more about the system that I am against. The way banks operate. Banks are probably the most successful businesses in the world. They have immense amount of wealth, which leads them to immense amount of power. And throughout history, they have abused this power. They finance wars for instance the Rothschild were very famous in this. And today we see them be very "stupid" in their dealings and not to consider the long-term consequences of their actions. Without banks a nation cannot survive, and it is as if these banks hold a nation by its throat.I feel the culprit is the greed of the financiers to make more money. This leads them to give 'misleading advertisements' and play upon the temptations of the consumers to live a lifestyle beyond what their income can support.
30 years ago, there were no credit cards, and people could only take loans against hard collaterals. Now, people are given way too much access to easy credit. There is an urge among people to spend money which they haven't earned yet. There are billions of dollars in credit card debt around the world, I am sure! All this money has been printed out of thin air, and no one has created the wealth or put in the effort to earn it. This kept on adding up and finally leaves the whole society in the doldrums.
What is the opinion of fellow Frihosters regarding the credit cards (which are tipped to be the next to fail after the mortgage mess)?
i lways wonderd whath would happen if every boddy wanted there monny right back now i know .
In Belgium we are facing the same problems and after one year and 3 monds we still dont have a good govrnement to adress the problems in a good way.
lets hope everything cools down als soon as possible wso we can go on with our lives
kind regards Steven
Updates from Iceland:
Reuters article: http://www.reuters.com/article/usDollarRpt/idUSLF28291820081015?sp=true
Seems like they have food stocks for 4 - 5 weeks only, and need urgent infusion of further cash in order to be able to import food stuff from outside.
Just imagine: a country of just 300K is floundering like this!
Really, people all over the world need a lesson in financial management, Wow that is crazy. Only 3 - 4 weeks of food supply left? That is extremely low.
Sounds like they are somewhat getting back on track. Hopefully everything goes over well there.
I had a teacher in elementary school that was from Ice Land. The last year he taught, I was in his class, and he said after that year, he was moving back to Ice Land.
Wonder how he's doing over there.
Hello everyone,
This is a very important topic of the time and still there are far less replies of people. Every one has his own perspective as well but let me tell what I believe.
Banking is a commerce these days. Why commerce is there after all ? To produce business. Ok, why do we need business, so that profits can be made. But who will make profit from whom ? Every one needs a living. So the answer is that a good system is one in which the basic livings and a good distribution of profit is there for every one. Where is the actual money coming from ? Money is not the real valuable but the resources that are used to make usefull products are. A good commerce is one in which these resources are extracted effectively and then the commerce system distribtues them amond the people, if not equally, balanced enough that every one is happy.
The finance system of today, which is on the verge of crises does not focus productive use of resopurces but getting profits in any way, even on the cost of living of others. Thus the collapse is the ultimate end.
It is undeniable that the world economy is really dependent on the reckless spending indulged in by the Americans. Unfortunately, we are starting at another abyss in that respect:
http://www.americablog.com/2008/10/credit-card-defaults-up-54-and-growing.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/15/AR2008101503233.html?hpid=topnews
As I had put in my earlier post in this very topic, the economic growth over most of the world is in fact fuelled by borrowed money. There is a difference in approach to credit in the present generation compared with our parents or grandparents' generation.
This reckless economic growth without actual wealth creation must be stopped first. While I'm also against the huge bonuses of the bankers and Wall Street folk, some of the above comments are missing the core reasons for the problem.
1) A LOT of debt (mostly now known), and
2) Too many houses.
Too many real houses, really built, really ready to be lived in.
The reason for so much debt is because it is so efficient at getting real things really built.
Throughout most of the last 20 years or so, there have been some 2 million vacant houses, ready to be sold.
Today there are about 4 million -- because with cheap loans and many buyers, builders built so many houses. Too many. Too much supply, prices drop.
Just like oil prices dropping. After recession starts, more people change behavior and drive less, all over the world, and demand starts dropping. So 'investors' who were buying oil thinking the price was going up, now want to cash out before it drops, and this helps it drop faster.
Houses too. Now too many, after 20 years of too few. But all the Big Banks' profits were based on the big loans and 'house prices always go up'.
House prices haven't yet hit bottom. Until they do, there will be a crisis.
Some more analysis on the situation in Iceland:
http://rjones2818.blogspot.com/2008/10/iceland-what-happened.html
Agreed it sounds like a bit of capitalism bashing, but it definitely gives some food for thought. Particularly why the approach to capitalism adopted when the banking system in Iceland was privatized in 2000 was a faulty one. Definitely makes an interesting read. If too much debt is a problem, why it is there after all. IMF provides developing countries with loan which itself is on high interest rates and for a short term. Developing countries use this loan to pay back thier other debts but they are never able to build an infrastructure that may improve economics and produce enough profits from within the country that in the future the country may stand on its feet.
Thus loans over loans and an ever increasing debt and finally default. Every one knows the and sees the poor game but no one has yet come up with a good solution. I beleive that a lot can be resolved if people start to think collectively. There is huge capital in the accounts of many people of pakistan but the country is poor. If they invest thier own wealth in the country, things can entirely change.
