http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/economy/bailout/index.htm?cnn=yes
Bailout fails to pass. Stocks tumble again.
Scary times.
Bailout fails to pass. Stocks tumble again.
Scary times.
Bailout bill fails to pass
The bill will come up for voting again later this week isnt it? This bill is extremely important. Any reason behind such strong opposition to this bill in the us? This bill impacts not only the US economy but also the global economy.
All I can really say is...uh oh. How long before the effects of this trickle down and start to impact average Americans?
Today's US crisis is in housing prices -- because there TOO MANY unsold houses / prices are too high.
Here's my alternative bailout plan:
$400 billion to buy up to 2 million houses at 50% of their last mortgage price, with an average price per county no more than $200 000 / house. An alternative would be at the last 1995 rate.
All those sub-prime loans "nobody knows how much they're worth" are worth 50%.
There are two issues:
1) value
2) uncertainty.
It is the uncertainty which causes the credit clogs, altho the loss of value is also huge. A clear but low floor means firms will think they can get better deals by working harder with somebody else -- so they WILL work harder with somebody other than the Federal Gov't.
Buying the houses lets the finance and legal system settle the paper issues.
See the Burning Down the House video.
Here's my alternative bailout plan:
$400 billion to buy up to 2 million houses at 50% of their last mortgage price, with an average price per county no more than $200 000 / house. An alternative would be at the last 1995 rate.
All those sub-prime loans "nobody knows how much they're worth" are worth 50%.
There are two issues:
1) value
2) uncertainty.
It is the uncertainty which causes the credit clogs, altho the loss of value is also huge. A clear but low floor means firms will think they can get better deals by working harder with somebody else -- so they WILL work harder with somebody other than the Federal Gov't.
Buying the houses lets the finance and legal system settle the paper issues.
See the Burning Down the House video.
or just spend less on defense???
| thejam wrote: |
| or just spend less on defense??? |
What does that have to do with the financial market problems?
Respectfully,
M
From what I heard, the bill had to be blocked because it included way too much pork: the most outrageous example being that 20% (of 700 billion!) would go to the democratic election campaign fund.
This is just word of mouth though, but from someone I trust.
This is just word of mouth though, but from someone I trust.
I bet the majority of all those A-hole politicians had their family members sell stocks short on that market drop.
Those 4 banks are a very small portion of the US economy.
This whole thing is election year fear mongoring.
Those 4 banks are a very small portion of the US economy.
This whole thing is election year fear mongoring.
freakin stupid politicians. this bill needs to be passed or the economy of the whole world is gonna go down even more! those 4 banks were actually NOT a very small portion of the US economy, they were a significant part of the whole WORLD's economy. thats why the economic hysteria we see today is going on. the worst part about all of this is that the responsible ones for this mess, are the ones least affected, cuz they made sooo much money off of all this crazy investing and bad loans that they mustve understood would blow up in someones face someday. they just knew it wuoldnt be theirs.
| Indyan wrote: |
| Any reason behind such strong opposition to this bill in the us? This bill impacts not only the US economy but also the global economy. |
Our politicians have said we can't afford things like better schools, universal healthcare, and so on, and that regulations on the market that might have prevented all this would be bad evil socialism! But now they want to interfere to the tune of 700 BILLION DOLLARS. This is telling Wall Street -- hey, don't worry, make your money however you have too, we'll fix your booboos when it all goes to hell so you're never ever accountable. "Privatize the profits, socialize the losses" -- that's the name of the game.
If the rest of the world is so worried about the bailout, they can pay for it because I'm sure as hell not going to.
Perhaps instead, they could just give about $100 to every man, woman, and child in the world...
Wouldn't that be fun?
Wouldn't that be fun?
There really is no easy way out of the mess. What troubles me is that the first bill seemed to come out of no where. Ie 700 billion bucks pulled out of somebody's ass as a random arbitrary huge number by loud mouthed politicians. I'm glad the first bill didn't pass -- it puts the government in its place that we're not going to just go along with their fuck ups.
We really need to cut back on the war. That was our 700 billion right there. As much as I'm for ridding evils in the world, we have to be able to help ourselves first before focusing on foreign policy.
We really need to cut back on the war. That was our 700 billion right there. As much as I'm for ridding evils in the world, we have to be able to help ourselves first before focusing on foreign policy.
Before they started working on the bailout bill, they should have done some reaearch. Sweden was in a similar situation years ago, they also did a bailout, but with many strings attached. This resulted in the taxpayers getting back waht they had invested once the economy started booming again.
Let's not give out freebies, there needs to be some guarantees to protect us taxpayers who ultimately foot the bill.
The 20% to the Democratic Party is one of them Urban Legends. Go the the Congress website and check what the bill looks like.
Pete
Let's not give out freebies, there needs to be some guarantees to protect us taxpayers who ultimately foot the bill.
The 20% to the Democratic Party is one of them Urban Legends. Go the the Congress website and check what the bill looks like.
Pete
just today I read that they now plan to continu with the bailout of the money counterfeiters (that is how I see banks that make up money that doesn't exist).
what do we really expect from the ultimate capitalist society?
yes i agree that at this moment in time the world economy would suffer greatly if that whole house of cards they constructed would collapse. but be sure of one thing even if that would happen:
it would be the lil suckers and poor people who would get screwed again - in the usa and world wide. it's high time that proper controls are put in place that things like that can't happen in the first place.
ask your average citicen who had been overstretched in his/her budget because it was so EASY to borrow money from exactly THESE banks for their mortgage or the credit card who is helping THEM not to become homeless because their house has been reposessed - and then count the fat bonuses the top executives in these institutions have been getting year after year building up this fantastic american dream which always was a bubble - are they being asked to pay back their bonuses or are they losing their homes and all hope to ever get out of the debt trap?
nope.
and will we learn from that????
nope
come back in 10 years and see a re-run.
yes i agree that at this moment in time the world economy would suffer greatly if that whole house of cards they constructed would collapse. but be sure of one thing even if that would happen:
it would be the lil suckers and poor people who would get screwed again - in the usa and world wide. it's high time that proper controls are put in place that things like that can't happen in the first place.
ask your average citicen who had been overstretched in his/her budget because it was so EASY to borrow money from exactly THESE banks for their mortgage or the credit card who is helping THEM not to become homeless because their house has been reposessed - and then count the fat bonuses the top executives in these institutions have been getting year after year building up this fantastic american dream which always was a bubble - are they being asked to pay back their bonuses or are they losing their homes and all hope to ever get out of the debt trap?
nope.
and will we learn from that????
nope
come back in 10 years and see a re-run.
From what I heard the bailout bill passed now anyways. Apparently some changes were made to the bill, but they were supposed to be pretty minor. I think this is a very good thing. Earlier in US history a president had another approach, to let the companies clean up their own mess with no help from the government. That led to mass-unemployment and to some extent starvation.
Think about that, you people who think the bill should never have been passed. Its not like you're living in your own little world. The greedy people on the banks are to blame, for sure, but You couldve ended up without a job or money to buy food because of their actions, if no one makes an effort to clean up the mess.
Think about that, you people who think the bill should never have been passed. Its not like you're living in your own little world. The greedy people on the banks are to blame, for sure, but You couldve ended up without a job or money to buy food because of their actions, if no one makes an effort to clean up the mess.
Although the new bail out passed, there still lacks confidence in the market.
Dow falls 500 points today.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/06/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?postversion=2008100610
Dow falls 500 points today.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/06/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?postversion=2008100610
^They did think to include a clause in the bill that states that we have to get a 700 billion dollar refund if it doesn't actually make anything better, right?
| ocalhoun wrote: |
| ^They did think to include a clause in the bill that states that we have to get a 700 billion dollar refund if it doesn't actually make anything better, right? |
Why would they give you a refund? If it doesn't work how in the world would you get a refund if it is already spent? If it doesn't work, we're all screwed.
| Liu wrote: | ||
Why would they give you a refund? If it doesn't work how in the world would you get a refund if it is already spent? If it doesn't work, we're all screwed. |
It was a joke, really.
man banks are coming down here in Europe too, this is no good. Luckily Sweden of course have stable banks, but the rest of Europe is not looking too great... This affects the whole world though... in a very negative way, obviously
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