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Which do you support, Idealism or Materialism?
I once heard that there're many people support Idealism, believing Theism, except that we Chinese support Materialism because Chinese Government believe Idealism is fantastic.
I post a poll here only to find out whether it is true. Besides, is it always true that those who believe Idealism also believe Theism?
I post a poll here only to find out whether it is true. Besides, is it always true that those who believe Idealism also believe Theism?
Well guess I'm a materialist cause I think that only the existence of matter can be proven. And that everything is caused by material changes.
| takashiro wrote: |
| is it always true that those who believe Idealism also believe Theism? |
Depending on your definition of Idealism (which does sound a little strange), no.
Working of the definitions of idealism and materialism I'm familiar with, materialism is a kind of an ideal, so it falls under idealism itself.
The definitions I'm familiar with: (informal definitions, mind you)
Idealism: the implicit belief that by some means or other everything could be brought into an ideal state of being.
Materialism: Obsession with material possessions and wealth, while ignoring intellectual, physiological, and/or spiritual pursuits.
What kind of definitions are you working with here?
Eeeh wrong materialism?
He meant the one above not the one below.
| Wikipedia wrote: |
|
The philosophy of materialism holds that the only thing that can be truly proven to exist is matter, and is considered a form of physicalism. Fundamentally, all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions; therefore, matter is the only substance. As a theory, materialism belongs to the class of monist ontology. As such, it is different from ontological theories based on dualism or pluralism. For singular explanations of the phenomenal reality, materialism would be in contrast to idealism. |
He meant the one above not the one below.
| Wikipedia wrote: |
|
Economic materialism Materialism refers to how a person or group chooses to spend their resources, particularly money and time. Literally, a materialist is a person for whom collecting material goods is an important priority. In common use, the word more specifically refers to a person who primarily pursues wealth and luxury. Sometimes such a person displays conspicuous consumption. |
Did I define Idealism? 
I just mean that I was told there are many people supporting Idealism and many people believing Theism beyond China. 
It's unnecessary for me to define Idealism or Materialism.
I just mean that I was told there are many people supporting Idealism and many people believing Theism beyond China. It's unnecessary for me to define Idealism or Materialism.Is light a wave or a particle? Is the world an idea or a material? Aside from the very nice observation above that these terms are very vague and so should be defined, entire strains of philosophy are predicated on the assumption that idea and material can be reconciled. Phenomenology, for example.
| OpposableThumbs wrote: |
| Is light a wave or a particle? Is the world an idea or a material? Aside from the very nice observation above that these terms are very vague and so should be defined... |
Which terms are vague? "Light", "wave" and "particle" are all rigidly defined. Idea and material are also clearly defined in the context of idealism and materialism. In an idealist view, the world that we perceive exists only as "information" (to use modern terminology) - the rock you see does not really exist intrinsically, you are merely receiving information that you interpret as a physical rock in front of you. In a materialist view, there is something actually there that you are receiving information about. What's vague about any of that?
| OpposableThumbs wrote: |
| ... entire strains of philosophy are predicated on the assumption that idea and material can be reconciled. Phenomenology, for example. |
Say what? You're going to have to explain this a bit more clearly. i don't see what phenomenology has to do with this at all.
Besides... "reconciled"? What does that mean? Either the universe exists, or it doesn't and we only think it exists. How can you reconcile that?
I believe whatever God wants me to. Nothing more. If God wants me to believe in an Ideal (as he often does), then yes. I don't think I can vote for either, though.
Materialism can be fun. But material without Idealism is punishment somewhere.
| spinout wrote: |
| Materialism can be fun. But material without Idealism is punishment somewhere. |
How is it punishment?
To my surprise, there's really almost 50% who are idealist.
Chinese Government seems to force us Chinese to believe Materialism. However, I believe Materialism. Matter exists before idea.
Idea can't detemine matter. Why don't all the Idealism just think they are full so that food is unnecessary?
Chinese Government seems to force us Chinese to believe Materialism. However, I believe Materialism. Matter exists before idea.
Idea can't detemine matter. Why don't all the Idealism just think they are full so that food is unnecessary?
| takashiro wrote: |
| To my surprise, there's really almost 50% who are idealist.
Chinese Government seems to force us Chinese to believe Materialism. However, I believe Materialism. Matter exists before idea. Idea can't detemine matter. Why don't all the Idealism just think they are full so that food is unnecessary? |
Cause they like living.
Hi takashiro. First let me say well done on trying to expand your mind by contacting others and asking intelligent questions.
You know, in some ways, your country after the Great Leap forward is where the Western world was during and after the Industrial Revolution. Due to the success we had in creating machines and technology that did indeed transform the (human) world, we started to think that materialism, i.e., the belief that only physically tangible objects are real, was correct.
However this is only a new development in Western history. From the very beginnings of animism (primitive worship of the living spirit in all objects), to today's sophisticated religions such as Judaism, humans in the west have always had an idealistic view of the world - i.e., that all things are created in a series of emanations from cosmic mind. Further, that all things are explainable in spiritual terms, in relation to a "heaven" or abode of the gods or similar concept.
Materalism is simply the latest version of the western desire to understand the nature of reality. It may very well not be any more valid (or long-lasting) than idealism, and can arguably be proved not to be valid in certain circumstances.
Materialism may fill our bellies, but it leaves an aching, empty need that only a connection to spirituality can fulfil. My belief is that when we depart this life we return to our spiritual home, in order to review how we did, see who we helped and how much we loved, and then to prepare for our next life (or in some exalted cases, we ascend to the level of the higher masters, such as the Buddha).
It simply makes no sense to me that the material world is all there really is. Consciousness is a form of energy and energy never dies. it only changes form.
You know, in some ways, your country after the Great Leap forward is where the Western world was during and after the Industrial Revolution. Due to the success we had in creating machines and technology that did indeed transform the (human) world, we started to think that materialism, i.e., the belief that only physically tangible objects are real, was correct.
However this is only a new development in Western history. From the very beginnings of animism (primitive worship of the living spirit in all objects), to today's sophisticated religions such as Judaism, humans in the west have always had an idealistic view of the world - i.e., that all things are created in a series of emanations from cosmic mind. Further, that all things are explainable in spiritual terms, in relation to a "heaven" or abode of the gods or similar concept.
Materalism is simply the latest version of the western desire to understand the nature of reality. It may very well not be any more valid (or long-lasting) than idealism, and can arguably be proved not to be valid in certain circumstances.
Materialism may fill our bellies, but it leaves an aching, empty need that only a connection to spirituality can fulfil. My belief is that when we depart this life we return to our spiritual home, in order to review how we did, see who we helped and how much we loved, and then to prepare for our next life (or in some exalted cases, we ascend to the level of the higher masters, such as the Buddha).
It simply makes no sense to me that the material world is all there really is. Consciousness is a form of energy and energy never dies. it only changes form.
In China, we're told that Idealism is absolutely wrong. However, I think it's correct in a way. Thanks for all your replies.
| takashiro wrote: |
| To my surprise, there's really almost 50% who are idealist.
Chinese Government seems to force us Chinese to believe Materialism. However, I believe Materialism. Matter exists before idea. Idea can't detemine matter. Why don't all the Idealism just think they are full so that food is unnecessary? |
i wouldn't trust the poll results. i suspect most people here don't know what idealism is, really. But in the West, materialism is despised by all major religions - and often actively targeted as the enemy of religion (which is nonsense - at best it is the enemy of non-materialist religions, if that). i'd bet most people picked idealism just because it wasn't materialism - they would have picked anything that wasn't materialism.
In the West, the most popular position is dualism - both materialism and idealism are monist beliefs, not dualist.
Materialism with a hint of Idealism. 
| Indi wrote: |
| i'd bet most people picked idealism just because it wasn't materialism - they would have picked anything that wasn't materialism. |
That's so true. The way I was brought up in society idealism felt "human", more forgiving, easier to associate with and to digest, and materialism "fixated on matter", unforgiving and relentless, scary to associate with as you may just open a pandora box of scary things to deal with. I had not a clue what they really meant.
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