Why are people so cruel? How could you just walk into a school and shoot every person down.
Are they possessed by some kind of evil? Do they find enjoyment in see people die?
Anger. Why is anger so terrible? Yeah, someone steals your boyfriend, I guess you have every right to be angery, but why do they go and KILL that person? There is no right that says you CAN kill someone for stealing something from you. Every life is special, even if the others treat it like CRAP. I for one get mad too, slam things around and scream. But, I would NEVER kill anyone!
Why do They do What They do?
Why do PEOPLE do what They do?
Are they animals?
It depends on your angle of perception. Some are seriously mentally ill that they cannot differentiate between good and bad.
Some just get trained from childhood to kill. So, they are so influenced that they perceive killing as normal. For example, Islamic Terrorists
While others just get used to seeing blood and derive ther entertainment out of it. For example, US soldiers
And ofcourse then there is basic biological reason of 'Survival of fittest'. each living being just want to get everything and can do anything for that. Sometimes he overdo it and start killing his fellow beings for immaterial things like TV or girlfriend(ok fine that is not immaterial but still huh?)
And yes, humans are animals. Infact it is said that
| Quote: |
Human is a social animal |
| hunnyhiteshseth wrote: |
While others just get used to seeing blood and derive ther entertainment out of it. For example, US soldiers
|
Just because you get used to it, doesn't mean you get your entertainment out of it...
But as for the original question:
That's just how humans are. Awful creatures, really.It is easy for people like you and me to not be able to identify with that mindset, of wanting to kill or of thinking we have a right to etc. But, (unfortunately in this situation) everyone's mind works differently, depending on so so many factors that influence us during our development.
I can't relate to the way some people's mind work at all, but I can try to understand that it's really only a product of all of these different factors. I guess I don't really believe in free will. Some people are cruel and kill because they are pre-disposed to this kind of behavior by their past and by those factors. Yet, they still exercise a preference, that is all. And so it goes.
| Jessica wrote: |
| Are [PEOPLE] animals? |
The literal answer is yes and the answer you're probably looking for is that a few people have had their usual intelligence/emotions screwed up by various factors (eg. decease, brainwashing, extreme circumstances). Not that the human psyche is ever perfect even at the best of times ... | ocalhoun wrote: |
| hunnyhiteshseth wrote: |
While others just get used to seeing blood and derive the entertainment out of it. For example, US soldiers
|
Just because you get used to it, doesn't mean you get your entertainment out of it...
|
No, i didn't mean that. I meant that the kind of pressure situation in which they work they miss out on entertainment part. The only thing they are seeing is blood, so they start deriving pleasure out of it. You can say, it is the brain's way to cope up with stress by adapting to environment.
Source: I don't remember exactly but when some US soldiers were found humiliating, torturing and then killing Iraqi soldiers, one of the article in newspaper aimed to explain situation from there perspective. Although, it didn't advocated what they did, but yes, it put the things in right perspective. | hunnyhiteshseth wrote: |
| ocalhoun wrote: | | hunnyhiteshseth wrote: |
While others just get used to seeing blood and derive the entertainment out of it. For example, US soldiers
|
Just because you get used to it, doesn't mean you get your entertainment out of it...
|
No, i didn't mean that. I meant that the kind of pressure situation in which they work they miss out on entertainment part. The only thing they are seeing is blood, so they start deriving pleasure out of it. You can say, it is the brain's way to cope up with stress by adapting to environment.
Source: I don't remember exactly but when some US soldiers were found humiliating, torturing and then killing Iraqi soldiers, one of the article in newspaper aimed to explain situation from there perspective. Although, it didn't advocated what they did, but yes, it put the things in right perspective. |
The right perspective, according to whom; Some stuffed shirt psychoanalyst who has probably never even been a combat or highly stressful situation as such. I use to be one of those so called us soldiers. I am retired now but I was in Desert Storm the first time, Somalia and I was also in Burundi and Rwanda when the Hutus and Tutus were hacking each other to pieces and believe me I took no entertainment in anything I saw especially in Rwanda. For you to make a blanket statement like that based on some article that you can’t reference is a slap in the face to all the men and women who have died and those that are presently serving in the US military. I am by no means saying that the event did not happen, doesn’t happen or that I condone it. But your singling out both US Soldiers and Islamic Terrorist in a generalize blanket statements is ludicrous. All soldiers no matter what country they are from are capable of the same random acts of violence and terrorists come in all favors not just Islamic. It is true everyone cannot handle the pressures and rigors of war. But you make it same that all the US military are sadistic, mindless, killing machines. | Futile wrote: |
The right perspective, according to whom;
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The right perspective according to US soldiers. From a neutral perspective what they did was too heinous but from soldiers perspective it was not as heinous crime.
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Some stuffed shirt psychoanalyst who has probably never even been a combat or highly stressful situation as such. I use to be one of those so called us soldiers. I am retired now but I was in Desert Storm the first time, Somalia and I was also in Burundi and Rwanda when the Hutus and Tutus were hacking each other to pieces and believe me I took no entertainment in anything I saw especially in Rwanda.
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I totally sympathize with you. As far as I know, you must have been there as UN peacekeepers and were not really fighting a war against some country like what was going on in Iraq. I must clear that I didn't said "All US soldiers" are like that.
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For you to make a blanket statement like that based on some article that you can’t reference is a slap in the face to all the men and women who have died and those that are presently serving in the US military.
|
Man, you cannot expect somebody to document each and every article that appears in newspaper so that can be referenced.
I totally sympathize with all those who died fighting for their country and that article didn't said anything against soldiers. Infact it was kind of defending the soldiers and thats why was explaining their pressure situation.
| Quote: |
But your singling out both US Soldiers and Islamic Terrorist in a generalize blanket statements is ludicrous. All soldiers no matter what country they are from are capable of the same random acts of violence and terrorists come in all favors not just Islamic. It is true everyone cannot handle the pressures and rigors of war. But you make it same that all the US military are sadistic, mindless, killing machines. |
Again, i would say you are stretching it. Let me explain you with a metaphor.
When I say, "Some companies follow monopolistic practices. For example Microsoft" that doesn't mean that only microsoft follow such a policy and nor does it mean that microsoft follow only monopolistic policy and no other policy. Here, Microsoft, may be just an example to which common masses could identify and relate to.
Similar was the use of Islamic Terrorists and US soldiers. Obviously, nothing in this world is in black & white. Everything has a shade of gray. Not all US soldiers are like that and more or less all military have some soldiers like that.
P.S. US military may not be sadistic, mindless but it surely is killing machine!!(atleast in Iraq)
4152 US soldiers killed in Iraq(http://icasualties.org/oif/, http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/) and number of Iraqis killed due to US invasion = 1255026 (http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/)
That means a US soldier kills over 300 Iraqis before dying!! If you don't call that killing machine, I don't know what would be killing machine.We can debate this all day and still be in square one. I agree with you on some issues, but will have to agree to disagree on a few more. But I will comment on this:
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| I totally sympathize with you. As far as I know, you must have been there as UN peacekeepers and were not really fighting a war against some country like what was going on in Iraq. I must clear that I didn't said "All US soldiers" are like that. |
I was not in the UN Peacekeeping Force. The UN Peacekeeping Force never secures anything themselves. They are an occupational force only but take credit for everything that happens. The 31st MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) was responsible for going in and securing the initial operation of the ECC (Evacuation Control Center). It was a 72 hour operation in which we, 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines evacuated over 400 civilians. This was done even before the UN arrived but of course they get the credit for it. No publicity for the little guys. You can Google 2nd Battalion 5th Marines and look at the history and find the references to operation. Basically a lot of stuff happens that the public never gets the full story or hears about. Hell I wouldn’t have known myself if I hadn't been there. And make no mistake whether fighting a war or not a rounds coming down range are still rounds coming down range and will leave you just as dead. The only difference is your death goes down as a “training” accident especially if “you weren’t suppose to be there in the first place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Battalion_5th_Marines
http://www.2ndbn5thmarines.com
That’s not Killing Machine numbers that is trained professional soldiers versus poorly trained, usually sequestered into the military service individuals. | Jessica wrote: |
Why are people so cruel? How could you just walk into a school and shoot every person down.
Are they possessed by some kind of evil? Do they find enjoyment in see people die?
Anger. Why is anger so terrible? Yeah, someone steals your boyfriend, I guess you have every right to be angery, but why do they go and KILL that person? There is no right that says you CAN kill someone for stealing something from you. Every life is special, even if the others treat it like CRAP. I for one get mad too, slam things around and scream. But, I would NEVER kill anyone!
Why do They do What They do?
Why do PEOPLE do what They do?
Are they animals? |
People do things because all animals (and to answer your question, human beings are animals - we're classified as apes) tend to look out for themselves and their families. Most crimes are crimes of opportunity. Most of the time, people commit crimes because they can see some sort of gain in it. Human beings are also emotional animals. Humans aren't the only animals that commit these kinds of crimes. Other animals (especially primates and other non-human apes) have been known to commit murder on each other, have wars, form families, etc.no self control....
and because they need drugs.
and to get laid...and probably
freinds for that matter....
because people like that need...
and they don't get...so they take.
eh?
yeah I dunno I'm way to tired...
there ya go! people should drink more..
and get stoned maybe...and definately tired...
cause everyone knows tired people don't shoot stuff. 
Moved to Philosophy and Religion.
| hunnyhiteshseth wrote: |
P.S. US military may not be sadistic, mindless but it surely is killing machine!!(atleast in Iraq)
4152 US soldiers killed in Iraq(http://icasualties.org/oif/, http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/) and number of Iraqis killed due to US invasion = 1255026 (http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/)
That means a US soldier kills over 300 Iraqis before dying!! If you don't call that killing machine, I don't know what would be killing machine. |
Man I totally agree with you.
George Bush is a war criminal. He should be impeached for going to war on a lie and knowingly fabricating the evidence to do so thereby misleading the nation, despite many top branches in the govt advising him otherwise.
And the notion that the American soldiers are innocent, is wrong.
The brainwashed terrorists who flew the boeings into the WTC, are no different to the brainwashed terrorists who carpet bombed the city of Kabul. 3000 Innocent Americans died in the WTC. 3000 Innocent Afghans died as a direct consequence of the American invasion within the first 3 months. But there is no minute silence for the innocent Afghans.
American soldiers must bear responsiblity for their actions. Not all are at fault, but most are. The statement "follow orders" no longer bears weight. It failed under the nuremburg trails, and it fails now.Please remember that the American War on Terror should be discussed within the Discuss World News section, in the appropriate topics.
Stay on topic please.
It works like this:
Say you want to be a hero, then some must be bad guys! No bad guys -> no heroes!
IE every bad guy is a true Blessing!
| Futile wrote: |
We can debate this all day and still be in square one. I agree with you on some issues, but will have to agree to disagree on a few more.
|
Well that's good, atleast we completely agree on something!
| Quote: |
I was not in the UN Peacekeeping Force. The UN Peacekeeping Force never secures anything themselves. They are an occupational force only but take credit for everything that happens. The 31st MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) was responsible for going in and securing the initial operation of the ECC (Evacuation Control Center). It was a 72 hour operation in which we, 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines evacuated over 400 civilians.
|
Saved 400 civilians. Salute to you.
| Quote: |
That’s not Killing Machine numbers that is trained professional soldiers versus poorly trained, usually sequestered into the military service individuals. |
Ok fine, a trained killing machine. 
| Quote: |
Please remember that the American War on Terror should be discussed within the Discuss World News section, in the appropriate topics.
|
Yeah sure, it just drifted off-topic during discussion. | James007 wrote: |
Please remember that the American War on Terror should be discussed within the Discuss World News section, in the appropriate topics.
Stay on topic please. |
It is Philosophy. I am asking why acts commited by a group of people (i.e. non nation states) can be considered as evil, whilst the same barbaric acts by nation states can be portrayed as good. | Jessica wrote: |
| Are they animals? |
Yes humans are animals and unfortunatly ((edit)somtimes) we are like beasts.
| James007 wrote: |
Please remember that the American War on Terror should be discussed within the Discuss World News section, in the appropriate topics.
Stay on topic please. |
We are on topic. We understand you can't read every post but whe are on topic.
Anyway I believe morality is different and one's actions are determined what happened to the person in question in his life all have factors one his desicions.
The human brain (I believe(and have reason to do so)) is just a computer that uses past experiences and (maybe) genetic "personality" to handle each and every situation. And rigt and wrong are hard to recognize. And usually the difference between two choices are not black and white, usually two shades of grey, the lesser of two evils.
Lets look for example at the georgian-russian war, from the past time? Wich side is the right one?
The Georgians?
The Russians?
The georgians of course "started" the (realbig) hostilities. After (they claim) that a georgian enclave was fire at by ossetian seperatists.
So they bombed area's with also civilians, among other military actions.
The russians of course have invaded in response with the same as the georgians, they bombed area's with also civilians, among other military actions.
What if the geargians hadn't attacked would the shootings on enclaves have continued?
What if the russians hadn't attacked?
One thing is shure a whole lot of people are dead.
Same with the conflict in Israel.
Both sides are wrong and right at the same time It's all very hard to comprehend and all very complicated.
Same with the war in Iraq.
Same with most wars.
The were unnecessary things done in all wars and if a lot of leaders of country's were not a-h**** close minded bastards seeking power for themselves instead of the best for all the people.
One thing is fore shure as long as there are humans at the day;
War never changes.
Some group of people are angry.
Someone wants someone else dead.
Someone is mourning an unnecessary death.
And there is always a big "What if?"
Last edited by Klaw 2 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:55 pm; edited 2 times in total | hunnyhiteshseth wrote: |
Man, you cannot expect somebody to document each and every article that appears in newspaper so that can be referenced.
I totally sympathize with all those who died fighting for their country and that article didn't said anything against soldiers. Infact it was kind of defending the soldiers and thats why was explaining their pressure situation.
|
Actually, if you're trying to make a decent argument, they can expect you to document every article that you're using as evidence your argument. Otherwise, your argument is completely pointless. | JessieF wrote: |
| hunnyhiteshseth wrote: |
Man, you cannot expect somebody to document each and every article that appears in newspaper so that can be referenced.
I totally sympathize with all those who died fighting for their country and that article didn't said anything against soldiers. Infact it was kind of defending the soldiers and thats why was explaining their pressure situation.
|
Actually, if you're trying to make a decent argument, they can expect you to document every article that you're using as evidence your argument. Otherwise, your argument is completely pointless. |
I don't have much to say on that but I don't log into frihost everyday, just to have arguments.
On a comic note, imagine what would happen if everyday each of over 48000 members of frihost researched, documented each newspaper, article or magazine they come across just to have a source on frihost. I think the point is that when you make statements of 'fact' then they should be backed-up. Opinion is another matter - that is your personal view.
Some of us do try to provide sources for any statements (particularly contentious ones) that we make in the course of a debate. It is not easy and does require extra time, of course.
| Klaw 2 wrote: |
| Jessica wrote: | | Are they animals? |
Yes humans are animals and unfortunatly are like beasts.
|
That is horribly insulting to beasts, who do not kill for fun. | Bikerman wrote: |
I think the point is that when you make statements of 'fact' then they should be backed-up. Opinion is another matter - that is your personal view.
Some of us do try to provide sources for any statements (particularly contentious ones) that we make in the course of a debate. It is not easy and does require extra time, of course. |
Exactly. Thats my point. I didn't quote any fact nor it was contentious one. It just said how in an article somebody gave army's perspective on killing. Nor did I mentioned any debatable fact.
