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McCain choses Sarah Palin as running mate.





standready
What is your take on this? Do you think he chose a woman just to court the female voters? Do you think she would be able to run the country if something did happen to McCain?
liljp617
I'm sure she's a fine choice as a VP in terms of backing the President, gaining votes, gaining McCain the hardcore right votes, etc. But no, she's not fit to be President in the event something happens to McCain. Seeing as how the VP's #1 job is to take over if the President were incapable of maintaining his position, I don't get this selection (outside of trying to gain Conservative constituents). Of course I don't like her policies any more than I like McCain's, but that's irrelevant. I personally think he could have selected someone much more valuable.

The woman vote was part of it, but Palin is, I believe, an avid member of one of the largest anti-abortion organizations around today. I think this could get McCain some women votes, but I think he'll lose quite a few as lots of women are pro-choice.

This could have also been an attempt to steal women voters who are "upset" that Obama didn't choose Clinton. However, I don't think that's very well thought out as Palin stands for just about everything opposite Clinton has her entire political career.
qname
a bad choice for women right
jwellsy
It seems to be a politically brilliant choice.

Barrack Hussein's response was that it was gamble.
Do you want to gamble on the position of VP(Palin) or President (Obama)?

She's inexperienced, so is the DNC nominee.

She is further away from the DC insiders than Obama.

She is younger than Obama, and prettier then his wife.

She has broken a glass ceiling that Hillary failed at.

The liberal reporters were asking "How can she raise a family and serve as VP?".
Sexist hypocrites would never ask that about a male or a democrat.

McCain-Palin were even bird dogging Obama across Pennsylvania state Friday.

Brilliant!
Bikerman
It seems to me to be an incredible choice.
Palin is a creationist. Let me just repeat that - she is a creationist. She believes that the world was created a few thousand years ago and that scientists throughout the world are either lying or simply wrong.
Are you Americans really seriously going to elect a vice-president (who may well become President since McCain is not getting any younger), in one of the most technologically advanced societies in the world, who doesn't believe in basic science?

I find it deeply worrying (from an outsider's perspective) that the US could even consider electing a scientifically illiterate vice-president, not to mention a VP who is quite likely to have to assume ultimate power and responsibility.

The mind boggles, and I keep hoping this is a bad dream...
liljp617
Bikerman wrote:
It seems to me to be an incredible choice.
Palin is a creationist. Let me just repeat that - she is a creationist. She believes that the world was created a few thousand years ago and that scientists throughout the world are either lying or simply wrong.
Are you Americans really seriously going to elect a vice-president (who may well become President since McCain is not getting any younger), in one of the most technologically advanced societies in the world, who doesn't believe in basic science?

I find it deeply worrying (from an outsider's perspective) that the US could even consider electing a scientifically illiterate vice-president, not to mention a VP who is quite likely to have to assume ultimate power and responsibility.

The mind boggles, and I keep hoping this is a bad dream...


Unfortunately, the half way intelligent people in this country also only get a single vote =(

BTW, do you have any good sources on here creationist following? I'd like to read into it.
crabfish
I would say that it is obvious and expected that he would choose a woman as his running mate, since so many Hillary-backers would be female and that would be one (simple) way of getting those votes turned towards McCain.

Althoug, I agree that she wouldn;t be the best choice for someone to be a 'fall-back' president.
liljp617
crabfish wrote:
I would say that it is obvious and expected that he would choose a woman as his running mate, since so many Hillary-backers would be female and that would be one (simple) way of getting those votes turned towards McCain.

Althoug, I agree that she wouldn;t be the best choice for someone to be a 'fall-back' president.


Again, it really doesn't matter. And it's not simple at all. Hilary Clinton is the dead opposite of Palin. Palin is a hardcore Conservative and stands for exactly the opposite of what Clinton stood for on just about every single issue. Voters here are stupid, but the people who supported Clinton so heavily aren't going to just throw their vote away on someone who stands for exactly the opposite of Clinton. Especially with Clinton's avid support and endorsement of Obama.
LumberJack
Media is taking a bit out of her :S Poor her
Bikerman
liljp617 wrote:
Unfortunately, the half way intelligent people in this country also only get a single vote =(

BTW, do you have any good sources on here creationist following? I'd like to read into it.


Sure - ;
http://www.thelangreport.com/religion-or-lack-of/sarah-palin-wants-creationism-taught-in-school/
http://counterknowledge.com/?p=142
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/08/mccains-vp-want.html

Note - there is nothing specific, since she has never revealed the true extent of her beliefs. What we DO know is that
  • She has been asked several times whether she 'believes' in evolution. Each time she has declined to answer*.
  • She believes creationism should be taught in the science curriculum alongside evolution.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I'm going to call it Donald.

*For those who would say that declining to answer is not the same as saying no, I would ask you to consider what conclusion would be drawn if any of the candidates had declined to answer the question 'Do you believe in God'?
balend
It's a very smart move to try to capture some of Hillary's voters. I personally don't like the pick, simply because I don't think she will make a good president in case something happens to McCain. However, I'm neither a McCain nor Palin supporter.
liljp617
lol why do people think she's going to take Clinton's voters so easily? -.- Again, Palin stands for EVERYTHING exactly OPPOSITE of what Clinton has stood for her whole career. Seems kind of insulting to the intelligence of women to think they're going to magically make a HUGE leap from a very liberal candidate to an extremely conservative candidate just because of gender. Not saying it doesn't play a factor, but Clinton has thrown all her support and endorsement on Obama...it's not like they're on bad terms and Clinton supporters know that (and still don't want a Republican in office).
Moonspider
Bikerman wrote:
She believes creationism should be taught in the science curriculum alongside evolution.


Not that I believe its much of a point since education in the United States is mostly a state matter (if I had my way it would only be a state matter and I'd abolish the entire U.S. federal department of education), and the U.S. Supreme Court ruled against teaching creationism.

You're right that in 2006 she said, ""Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

She later qualified her statement saying,

Palin wrote:
"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

Members of the state school board, which sets minimum requirements, are appointed by the governor and confirmed by the Legislature.

"I won't have religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism," Palin said.

Palin has occasionally discussed her lifelong Christian faith during the governor's race but said teaching creationism is nothing she has campaigned about or even given much thought to.

"We're talking about the gas line and PERS/TERS," she said Thursday, referring to the proposed natural gas pipeline and public employee and teacher retirement systems.


Source: http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html

Respectfully,
M
liljp617
I'm not at all concerned about the school system putting creationism into science class. Creationism will never be taught as scientific curriculum in public schools again (saying never is a bit much, but just making a point).

My problem lies in someone who has such a blatant disregard for elementary science likely running my government and country. I think it just says something about a person when they stare reality and elementary logic in the face and say "well, I'm going with my gut on this one" when it is obviously insanely unrealistic and out of touch. We've had enough policies and decisions based on "gut feelings" and "divine discussions" the past 8 years.

It especially worries me when considering the scientific age we currently live in and our need to, at the moment, depend on science to solve some extremely large issues we face.


/end rant Razz
jmaninc68
i think he is a brilliant man because a lot of voters that were going to vote for hilliary might now change their vote to mccain...personally i beleive that he does not like this move fully but it was a great addition to his campaign
athensgames
i think she'd make a great vp, hell i think she should be president, she seems to be really good at running things as opposed to obama, whos just a good speaker.
liljp617
jmaninc68 wrote:
i think he is a brilliant man because a lot of voters that were going to vote for hilliary might now change their vote to mccain...personally i beleive that he does not like this move fully but it was a great addition to his campaign


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP SAYING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shocked

athensgames wrote:
i think she'd make a great vp, hell i think she should be president, she seems to be really good at running things as opposed to obama, whos just a good speaker.


And you're basing this off what? Running a city of 9,000 for a few years? She's no more experienced or ready to be President than Obama is. If you try to make the argument she's experienced and Obama is, I'll jump off a mountain :O Neither are experienced.
ocalhoun
liljp617 wrote:
jmaninc68 wrote:
i think he is a brilliant man because a lot of voters that were going to vote for hilliary might now change their vote to mccain...personally i beleive that he does not like this move fully but it was a great addition to his campaign


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP SAYING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shocked


It may actually sway a very small portion of people, and the way elections have been lately, a small portion can easily mean the difference between election and defeat.
After all, the last poll I've seen puts McCain only 2% higher than Obama...
liljp617
ocalhoun wrote:
liljp617 wrote:
jmaninc68 wrote:
i think he is a brilliant man because a lot of voters that were going to vote for hilliary might now change their vote to mccain...personally i beleive that he does not like this move fully but it was a great addition to his campaign


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP SAYING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shocked


It may actually sway a very small portion of people, and the way elections have been lately, a small portion can easily mean the difference between election and defeat.
After all, the last poll I've seen puts McCain only 2% higher than Obama...


McCain got a big jump from the RNC, just as Obama did from the DNC. Can't really judge who's in the lead by the current polls without extensive research into them. The thing is, though, that McCain's jump was only enough to barely put him in the lead or make it even. That has to say something.

And while McCain did get a +20% jump of the women voters practically overnight, women are statistically 2x more likely than males to change their vote more than twice in an election. Not only that, people are overwhelmingly excited about a woman VP. When it boils down to it and people really start learning who Palin is, what she stands for, what she's going to do policy wise, etc. I have a good feeling that number will dwindle.
ocalhoun
liljp617 wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
liljp617 wrote:
jmaninc68 wrote:
i think he is a brilliant man because a lot of voters that were going to vote for hilliary might now change their vote to mccain...personally i beleive that he does not like this move fully but it was a great addition to his campaign


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP SAYING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shocked


It may actually sway a very small portion of people, and the way elections have been lately, a small portion can easily mean the difference between election and defeat.
After all, the last poll I've seen puts McCain only 2% higher than Obama...


McCain got a big jump from the RNC, just as Obama did from the DNC. Can't really judge who's in the lead by the current polls without extensive research into them. The thing is, though, that McCain's jump was only enough to barely put him in the lead or make it even. That has to say something.

And while McCain did get a +20% jump of the women voters practically overnight, women are statistically 2x more likely than males to change their vote more than twice in an election. Not only that, people are overwhelmingly excited about a woman VP. When it boils down to it and people really start learning who Palin is, what she stands for, what she's going to do policy wise, etc. I have a good feeling that number will dwindle.

Sorry, sorry, I just couldn't help putting that in, to strike out a little at the people who take it for granted that Obama will win (very annoying).
Stubru Freak
liljp617 wrote:
lol why do people think she's going to take Clinton's voters so easily? -.- Again, Palin stands for EVERYTHING exactly OPPOSITE of what Clinton has stood for her whole career. Seems kind of insulting to the intelligence of women to think they're going to magically make a HUGE leap from a very liberal candidate to an extremely conservative candidate just because of gender. Not saying it doesn't play a factor, but Clinton has thrown all her support and endorsement on Obama...it's not like they're on bad terms and Clinton supporters know that (and still don't want a Republican in office).


You think that and I hope you're right, but I'm worried a lot of women (and men, of course) don't make informed decisions in politics, but just follow the hype.
And I have read texts from ultra-feminists who would vote for a fascist if she was a woman. They could influence a lot of other people who don't have a clear opinion.

Palin is a danger to America and the world if she becomes president, even more than McCain or Bush. But anyway the world can't take 4 more years of a Republican US president, or before you know it there'll be another World War.
seanpr84
I think he made a risky decision, swung for the fences and hit a home run. Hes taking away clintons disenfranchised base and while straying from the 'old white male' candidates that Obama is going against. Furthermore Palin's a good speaker who has more executive experience than Obama (which isnt hard to do). Either way you look at it, this is gonna be a great election, and for the first time ever im undecided still and its allmost october. Cant wait for November Very Happy
Hizar
Most people think that she is a great govener and all because you dont hear bad things about the govener of Alaska. But she isn't a good govener at all, i say she was the stupidest govener i have ever heard of. She governed over 6,000 people and she asked to get a 23 million dolor form the governement, so that she could do something with it, she never clearified. If Macain and Palin are out in charge of America, we will be singing Glory Glory Halalua as we drown in national loan.
liljp617
seanpr84 wrote:
I think he made a risky decision, swung for the fences and hit a home run. Hes taking away clintons disenfranchised base and while straying from the 'old white male' candidates that Obama is going against. Furthermore Palin's a good speaker who has more executive experience than Obama (which isnt hard to do). Either way you look at it, this is gonna be a great election, and for the first time ever im undecided still and its allmost october. Cant wait for November Very Happy


He hit a home run because nobody knows a damn thing about her outside of her being a woman. It's ridiculous to assume the polls will stay the way they are once news of her actually gets around.

She's given like two real national speeches...how does that make her a good speaker? Furthermore, how is that an argument for her being capable of VP? Correct me if I'm wrong, but EVERY BIT of opposition to Obama is saying being a good speaker is not something to even be considered in voting.

Palin also has more executive experience than McCain. What's your point? She has executive experience leading a city of 9,000 people. Marvelous. She also has many executive scandals on her back.

The best arguments FoxNews has brought to the table for her:

A) She was a governor in the largest geographic state in the US
B) She has foreign policy experience because Alaska is near Russia


Sounds promising -.-
Moonspider
liljp617 wrote:

This could have also been an attempt to steal women voters who are "upset" that Obama didn't choose Clinton. However, I don't think that's very well thought out as Palin stands for just about everything opposite Clinton has her entire political career.


The decision below has nothing to do with Palin, but it's a prominent example of how McCain may gain some votes from former Clinton supporters.

Prominent Clinton Backer and DNC Member to Endorse McCain wrote:

September 17, 2008
Prominent Clinton backer and DNC member to endorse McCain
Posted: 09:00 AM ET

From CNN Political Editor Mark Preston

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Lynn Forester de Rothschild, a prominent Hillary Clinton supporter and member of the Democratic National Committee’s Platform Committee, will endorse John McCain for president on Wednesday, her spokesman tells CNN.

The announcement will take place at a news conference on Capitol Hill, just blocks away from the DNC headquarters. Forester will “campaign and help him through the election,” the spokesman said of her plans to help the Republican presidential nominee.

Forester was a major donor for Clinton earning her the title as a Hillraiser for helping to raise at least $100,000 for the New York Democratic senator’s failed presidential bid.

In an interview with CNN this summer, Forester did not hide her distaste for eventual Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.

“This is a hard decision for me personally because frankly I don't like him,” she said of Obama in an interview with CNN’s Joe Johns. “I feel like he is an elitist. I feel like he has not given me reason to trust him.”

Forester is the CEO of EL Rothschild, a holding company with businesses around the world. She is married to international banker Sir Evelyn de Rothschild. Forester is a member of the DNC’s Democrats Abroad chapter and splits her time living in London and New York.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Respectfully,
M
kevbailey
That article seems to make the woman look like a supporter of McCain not because of her liking of Palin, but more for the fact that she doesn't like Obama. She's entitled to her opinion about him, and that is probably what is changing her mind more than the like of Palin.
Moonspider
kevbailey wrote:
That article seems to make the woman look like a supporter of McCain not because of her liking of Palin, but more for the fact that she doesn't like Obama. She's entitled to her opinion about him, and that is probably what is changing her mind more than the like of Palin.


Like I said, it "...has nothing to do with Palin."

M
standready
After asking the questions, I guess I should comment.

What is the difference, expreience wise, between Palin and Obama? LIPSTICK! Neither would make a trustworthy President. Another difference: He is running to be President, She is not.
liljp617
standready wrote:
After asking the questions, I guess I should comment.

What is the difference, expreience wise, between Palin and Obama? LIPSTICK! Neither would make a trustworthy President. Another difference: He is running to be President, She is not.


Actually she has more executive experience than McCain, Obama, or Biden. But experience is irrelevant when you look deeper (not to mention, the best Presidents this country has had were pretty inexperienced politically).

She's a dimwit who transferred between multiple colleges and then finally graduated with a degree in sports journalism. Her take on foreign policy is that God has a plan. She's against abortion even in the cases of rape and incest. There's only like two official statements from her about foreign policy, and one of those (from 2006) includes here stating she saw what the surge was on the news and was in favor of withdrawing from Iraq. The best case made for her foreign policy to this point is that Alaska is close to Russia, so she's had practice (what the hell?).

McCain has clearly stated, on record, he knows extremely little about economics. Over the past couple weeks, she's clearly shown she doesn't either. Now I don't know about you, but I don't want that pair deciding how to fix this terrible economy. Not that Obama/Biden will do magnificent (if it were up to me, neither pair would be attempting to fix the economy).

After her interview with Charlie Gibson, I believe some Congresswoman stated, "She seems great, she doesn't let a lot of facts and figures get in the way." Again, what the hell?

Catching on? She's laughable. And she's running for Presidency just about as much as Obama. McCain may or may not be around for 4 more years, we don't know. Not only that, but the VP doesn't just sit around and observe anymore. They're very much involved in the executive decisions and they very much have influence over the President (way more than they used to).
alanw0
Seems to me like a very cynical but quite clever move to counteract the 'historic' reason to vote Obama, this way the US will get a 'historic' first regardless of who wins.

All I can say is, as someone from the outside world, please, please, please if you are American of voting age go out and vote Obama. The world is a more dangerous place now than it was in the pre Bush years and the idea of a very old (and therefore, let's face it, most likely to pop his clogs) president being in a position to give way to a VP so blinkered by religion that she will willfully ignore scientific fact, scares the hell out of me.
ocalhoun
alanw0 wrote:
move to counteract the 'historic' reason to vote Obama, this way the US will get a 'historic' first regardless of who wins.

He had to, in order to try to combat the effect that reverse racism is having on his campaign.
AFriedman
I think it is what, in chess, we would call a !? move (an interesting, albeit risky move). So far Palin has survived. Part of the reason is that the bar for her is relatively low. We have seen this in George W. Bush as well--in the debates, because there was a perception that he was not familiar with major national and international issues, he was not expected to perform as well as Gore or Kerry. When he was not completely obliterated, his candidacy remained viable. There is also the expectation that she is not a particularly clean candidate. One person even hacked into her email Inbox in the hope that incriminating information could be found (it was not). I think that, if scandalous information exists on her tax returns and in Troopergate, she will probably survive because Americans "already know" she is not an especially clean candidate, and Republicans can blame Democrats for being unfair to her and trying to remove her from the ticket.

McCain did not know what someone with a short resume that he had met only once before would do, but he needed to take a gamble with Obama so far ahead in the polls and challenging him in states that Republicans usually solidly hold. His staff, though, made sure that the risk of picking Palin was minimized. Palin was a relatively "clean slate" on the national stage and was going to become whatever her handlers could make of her. Hence the unusual precautions, such as barring her from interviews, which so far have worked.
DinoBob
Yep. This was more or less an all-in choice.. Which I find very disheartening. You simply don't pick a name out of a hat based on political hope. Not when the nation has never heard a single thing about this person, and not when the only candidate higher on that very ticket himself, has barely any more knowledge of the name either. Doing that in the last few days of a campaign for president in an election that started two years ago is just wrong. And John McCain knows this. He's not stupid. But then again, I don't suppose it was much of his own decision anymore.
handfleisch
Watch this video. Sarah Palin was in this crazy church most of her life (since adolescence) and just 4 years ago was onstage getting blessed by the wacko to protect her from "the spirit of witchcraft". She looks like a cult member in this video!



Watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwkb9_zB2Pg

News links about it http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gvCzZ0SoitdKvCm5L-qbcB6KSGUQD93DIUQ80
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-Palin-Witchcraft-Blessing.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/24/politics/p212746D88.DTL
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7825389

For those unwilling to sit through the whole thing, highlights:

5:00: “We need God taking over our education system. If we have God in our schools, we will not have our kids being taught how to worship Buddha, how to worship Muhammad. We will not have in the curriculum witchcraft and sorcery.”

5:35: “The other area is the media. We need believers in the media. We need God taking over the media in our lives.”

7:00: Really weird: Palin is now on stage and being fully blessed by Crazy Witchfighter Guy to be God’s instrument in government. He’s praying that Palin be used as a tool to combat witchcraft.

Oh lordy is this weird stuff. God, if you truly do love us, you will not let this woman anywhere near the levers of power in this country.
bigt
standready wrote:
What is your take on this? Do you think he chose a woman just to court the female voters? Do you think she would be able to run the country if something did happen to McCain?


I think she's gonna do a great job. Gov. Palin has more executive experience than Obama and look at all the good things she has done in AK. Can't wait to see Gov. Palin and Senator Biden face off in a few weeks.
liljp617
bigt wrote:
standready wrote:
What is your take on this? Do you think he chose a woman just to court the female voters? Do you think she would be able to run the country if something did happen to McCain?


I think she's gonna do a great job. Gov. Palin has more executive experience than Obama and look at all the good things she has done in AK. Can't wait to see Gov. Palin and Senator Biden face off in a few weeks.


What is your point? Her interview with Katie Couric was laughable at best. She has more executive experience than McCain, Biden, or Obama (none of them have any). If she can't exhibit it to the voters, it's useless. And she is very transparent when she lies and bullshits. She really doesn't have a chance in a formal debate vs Biden. She can barely string an intelligent sentence together.
DinoBob
I'm just hoping that Biden doesn't somehow get a raw-deal in their debate. Confused

You know. Something is bound to go wrong when the media doesn't have anything important that they'd like to report on. (Keyword: like.) If he doesn't say something particularly 'clingy' that they can make love to the next afternoon during their daily shake-down on commentary-time to fill, the debate is simply his for the taking. That's the real anomaly. With a guy like Joe Biden, and considering the air that surrounds Palin, it can go either way in a basket.

I'll be staying in Thursday to watch. Twisted Evil
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