It’s a loving atmosphere that we have to create. It’s not only about the animals who suffer; it’s about our loving nature that we’re killing. And it’s not about eating the animals who you see suffer or you don’t see suffer. It’s also the green policy for the planet. The more animals we eat, the more they raise. The more they raise, the more non-green it becomes, and the more endangered our planet becomes.
So it’s not just about you, whether you can or cannot eat that kind of meat. It’s not about whether the Buddha forbids, or the compassion even. It is you yourself. We have to save the planet by cutting out the unnecessary food that is no good for us, anyway. Everyone knows already that meat is not good for us. Why not just cut it altogether, and save everything else?
Everyone knows that raising animals is the heaviest and the worst cause of our planet’s pollution. Everyone knows that. It’s everywhere. It’s from the UN report and everything; the whole international community came together and concluded that it is so. And still they beat around the bush, saying: “We’ll change to biofuel, we’ll plant some more trees, and we’ll protect this forest.” No one stands up and says, “Let’s go vegan; go vegetarian!” No one stands up and says that. I’m waiting for whoever that leader may be, to just stand up and say, “Look, we go veggie. That’s the quickest way first; everything else later.”
How come no one says anything about that? They just beat around the bush on everything: biofuel, ethanol gas, change the bulbs, less water. The water that you’re using every day may be a lot, but it’s not a lot compared to the water they use for animal raising. So, they just beat around the bush with things like: “Save the water in the bath; don’t run the water while you’re brushing your teeth.” That is nothing! Of course it saves a few gallons, but they put hundreds of gallons out there for one cow just for a few days to wash, to rinse, to let them drink, or to water the grass or whatever it is for them to graze upon, just so that they will end up on a plate anyway.
So the main cause, they don’t want to talk about. Everyone just runs around it and tries to avoid it. They don’t ever talk about going veggie. Everyone knows about the [UN] report, but no one touches it; no one talks about it. They can’t even put down one piece of meat for the sake of health -- the planet’s health, your own health and your children’s health.
So whatever happens, it’s our own doing. There’s no one there to help us. Not even God can do anything, if we don’t want to do it. God put us here to do things. If we don’t do our job, what is Hes going to do? Then the Lord of Karma will take over our lives, and then we will scream like murder; we’ll beg and pray: “Please God, help me do this; help me do that.” Now we still can pray, but if we are in hell, it’s very difficult to pray. You don’t have time to pray; you don’t have the mentality to even think of praying. There’s too much suffering!
NO MEAT? 
BUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THE INNOCENT PLANTS THAT WILL DIE?!
Let's face it; either way, either plants die, or animals die. By animals, I mean chickens, cows, goats (fish even, if you're that extreme!) etc. (I don't eat pork because I'm Muslim but that's not because we don't want to kill innocent piggies, but that's a totally different argument).
I mean (going with this mentality), how is killing a plant different than killing an animal? What about all the innocent plants that get brutally murdered on...on...*gulp* - HARVEST DAY... To quote one Revered Maynard: "You see, tommorow is harvest day, and to them (the plants) it is THE HOLOCAUST" ...More wise words:
| Quote: |
| The harvest tractor is the final stop for plants raised for the selfish vegetarian diet. These ghastly places, while little known to most plant-eaters, process enormous numbers of plants each years. In the U.S. alone, 911,472,297,735,666,001.763 plants are killed for consumption every hour. A surprising quantity of plants are consumed by the plant-eater. The average percapita consumption of plants in the U.S., Canada and Australia (and France) is 200,000,000 pounds per year! The average American consumes in a 72-year lifetime approximately 11 redwoods, 3 hedges and and bushes, 23 honeysuckles, 45 pounds of soy, 1,100 pieces of bark and 862 pieces of brocolli! Bon appetite Bastards!!! |
You want me to give up THIS now!?! As much as I respect your right to be a vegan/vegetarian, I'll have to regretfully decline your offer. Being a vegetarian is a life choice, and has little to do with the planet. Technically eating vegetables steals food from those innocent animals and ruins habitats. We wiped out whole forests in order to create farmland and fed our nation. I eat as healthy as possible but I don't think giving up meat is the best way to save the planet.
Meat is not bad for you. Red meat, in excess, is bad for you, but then, so is anything else if you take it too far. Our bodies were designed to digest meat. We cave canine teeth designed for ripping into meat. I like meat.
Therefore, I choose to exercise my status as an apex predator. And if my government tries to tell me I can't have a hamburger now and then it will be time for a revolution.
Hmm, meat is not good to us, it's essential, if you are vegerian and doesn't take special pills or eat special meat-equivalents, you won't stay in health for more than a month.
And I got a good idea to save more water, we shouldn't wash and let cow drink our precious water, we should let them die then we could eat their dried meat.
HBP, I hate your picture.
Actually, eating meat IS bad for the planet. Earth9 makes a valid point but (I think) for the wrong reasons. Let's look at this in more detail.
1. Global Warming
Livestock are responsible for:- 9% of CO2 globally
- 34% of the methane produced globally (methane is 23 times more potent than CO2 as a greenhouse gas)
- 65% of nitrous oxide produced globally (which is nearly 300 times more potent than CO2 as a greenhouse gas).
If you work it out, in terms of CO2, then livestock are responsible for more CO2 equivalent gasses than the entire global transport systems.
2. Land Usage
Livestock production accounts for about 30% of the total area of land on earth. Livestock are a major driver of global deforestation. Overgrazing leads to a degradation of land quality which can (and does) lead to desertification in many areas.
3. Other pollution
64% of ammonia (globally) is a result of livestock. This contributes to acid rain amongst other things. Pesticides, animal wastes, antibiotics and hormones pollute water supplies throughout the world. Livestock are THE major cause of phosphorous and nitrogen pollution of the South China Sea which has led to a massive loss of marine diversity.
4. Efficiency
Cattle are not very efficient at converting acreage into calories. If the land currently given over to growing foodstuff for livestock was instead planted with edible crops for humans then we would be able to produce about 5 times as much food (measured in calories) as we currently do.
For example, a study in the Netherlands (Gerbens-Leenes 2004) produces the following table:
Food........Land per kg (m2).....Calories per kilogram....Land per person per year (m2)
Beef................20.9..........................2800.................................8173
Pork..................8.9..........................3760.................................2592
Eggs.................3.5..........................1600.................................2395
Milk...................1.2............................640.................................2053
Fruit..................0.5............................400.................................1369
Vegetables.......0.3............................250.................................1314
Potatoes...........0.2............................800...................................274
The fact is that the US and other western countries spend enormous resources on producing meat (60% of grain in the US goes to animal foodstuff, for example) which is then processed to produce junk-food, resulting in a population of lard-asses, whilst 15% of the global population are undernourished, and increasing numbers of people live in food poverty.
PS - The notion that it is not possible to eat a healthy vegetarian diet is a myth. Many people eat perfectly healthy diets with no meat content at all - you just have to be a bit more careful about protein sources. I don't argue that the environmental impact of the beef industry is bad for the planet. It wouldn't hurt our health, waistlines, or planet if we cut down on, or even eliminated beef from our diets. My point was that it should be an individual choice. The government has no right to dictate my nutritional choices.
The OP was advocating that the government should get involved and legislate us into vegetarianism. That is not a viable solution.
If one thinks that people should embrace a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle, then the better solution would be to begin a campaign to raise awareness of the issues involved and begin trying to change people's ideas and attitudes about eating meat.
earth9 - instead of waiting for some leader to come forward and push us into something that I and many others would be resistant to, and rather upset about, why not begin an informational campaign yourself. Put together a website, find others with the same ideas and get organized, start educating people about the harm that the beef industry, as it exists now, is doing to the planet.
I think that expecting everyone on the planet to embrace a vegetarian lifestyle is an unrealistic goal, though. You should probably push for reduced consumption and alternative agricultural methods. Maybe support research into vat-grown meat as an alternative to raising live cattle.
Exactly, you need to eat special aliments with more proteins, you can also find different kind of pills that give you an additional dose protein.
Earth9, I understand your point but if you can't accept the fact that thousand of animals are dying everyday, you will never be happy in your life.
Just think of it, when you walk in the street, you are killing hundred of poor little ants.
Oh and another trick, stop looking at stupid pictures like this one (that's probably why you are veg), they are just made to influence your judgement and your feelings.
| Jinx wrote: |
I don't argue that the environmental impact of the beef industry is bad for the planet. It wouldn't hurt our health, waistlines, or planet if we cut down on, or even eliminated beef from our diets. My point was that it should be an individual choice. The government has no right to dictate my nutritional choices.
|
Ermm...the government is already involved. US farmers, like European farmers, are massively subsidised by the tax payer.
I wasn't suggesting that meat should be banned - I was simply pointing out that, in terms of planet 'health', the OP has a point. | Urban wrote: |
| Exactly, you need to eat special aliments with more proteins, you can also find different kind of pills that give you an additional dose protein. |
Aliment - good word 
It's actually quite simple to get protein from a vegetarian diet - dairy products, grains/rice/cereals, nuts, soya bean etc. You don't need pills. | Bikerman wrote: |
| Jinx wrote: | I don't argue that the environmental impact of the beef industry is bad for the planet. It wouldn't hurt our health, waistlines, or planet if we cut down on, or even eliminated beef from our diets. My point was that it should be an individual choice. The government has no right to dictate my nutritional choices.
|
Ermm...the government is already involved. US farmers, like European farmers, are massively subsidised by the tax payer.
I wasn't suggesting that meat should be banned - I was simply pointing out that, in terms of planet 'health', the OP has a point. |
Farm subsidies are another matter altogether (which I am against, by the way, but that is neither here nor there.) That is not the same as leaders stepping up and declaring that we all have to go vegetarian to save the planet. They can urge us to, ask us to, even get down on their knees and beg us to, but trying to make it law that no one can eat meat because it's bad for the planet is only going to piss people off, me among them.
Actually, by removing subsidies paid to farmers, (with the happy side-effect of reducing our tax burden) the price of beef would go up, reducing demand for it, and leading people to look for alternatives and discover for themselves that vegetarian dishes aren't so bad. The farmers would have tough times for a few years until the market found an equilibrium without the artificial prop of the subsidies, but I think the economy would come out more robust in the end.I think the most powerful arguments for vegetarianism are arguments for health and the environment. It's true, our eating meat is much harder on the planet, in terms of land use, energy use and the use of almost every natural resource. Eating so much meat is also very hard on the body because of all the fat. The fact that the animals are killed doesn't bother me as much--so are plants, and plants are very complex but we can't really compare them to animals because they are so different. But animals raised in factory farms and even many regular farms live in miserable conditions. Better that we give our extra grain to third world people whose lives would be very much improved, or leave the land in a natural state, than feed the grain to farm animals who are not well adapted to survive in the wild and whose lives are very miserable just because we like the taste of their meat.
| Bikerman wrote: |
| Urban wrote: | | Exactly, you need to eat special aliments with more proteins, you can also find different kind of pills that give you an additional dose protein. |
Aliment - good word
It's actually quite simple to get protein from a vegetarian diet - dairy products, grains/rice/cereals, nuts, soya bean etc. You don't need pills. |
Agreed.
I've been a vegetarian for quite some time and I've never needed to take any pills.
EDIT: And the difference between growing and killing animals and plants is that animals have feelings.Well, we are predators. Our eyes are on the front and our teeth are canine and molars. If we were meant to be like these vegans want us to be, then we would have eyes on the side of our head and teeth like horses.
Now, let me go have a nice juicy flame-broiled steak with steamed veggies.
| myleshi wrote: |
Well, we are predators. Our eyes are on the front and our teeth are canine and molars. If we were meant to be like these vegans want us to be, then we would have eyes on the side of our head and teeth like horses.
Now, let me go have a nice juicy flame-broiled steak with steamed veggies. |
Does it matter?
We have the ability to choose. Why take that ability away because of the way we're built. We don't have to be predators, so why should we if we don't want to?
Just pick which one you feel sorrier for and be done with it 
| myleshi wrote: |
| Well, we are predators. Our eyes are on the front and our teeth are canine and molars. If we were meant to be like these vegans want us to be, then we would have eyes on the side of our head and teeth like horses. |
Err, molars are common to all (or nearly all) mammals - including horses. From 'Mola' - Latin for 'millstone'. Canine teeth are also present in vegetarian and fruit eating primates.
As for eyes - it is a generalisation that predators have front facing eyes - there are many exceptions. Consider; Gorillas, Orangutans, Gibbons - all vegetarian or frugivores (fruit eaters). They will occasionally eat insects but are definitely not meat-eaters.
Humans are omnivores according to most biologists. We are evolved to eat pretty much everything we can get our hands on : fruit, nuts, meat, vegetables. We are certainly not classical predators - our teeth are neither sharp enough nor long enough to kill prey, our 'claws' are pathetic, we are comparatively slow over short distances, and we have no special weapons or tricks to disable prey. | Bikerman wrote: |
Humans are omnivores according to most biologists. We are evolved to eat pretty much everything we can get our hands on : fruit, nuts, meat, vegetables. We are certainly not classical predators - our teeth are neither sharp enough nor long enough to kill prey, our 'claws' are pathetic, we are comparatively slow over short distances, and we have no special weapons or tricks to disable prey. |
No special weapons? 
Wouldn't be much left to eat if you hit a deer with that.
Although, whatever you could scrape together would already be cooked.
| Quote: |
Does it matter?
We have the ability to choose. Why take that ability away because of the way we're built. We don't have to be predators, so why should we if we don't want to? |
No, not really. You can't fight millions of years of evolution that created humans and placed us at the top of the food chain. You can try, but you can't hide what we all are - meat eaters and hunters.
Predators - eyes in the front for depth perception. 
| myleshi wrote: |
| Predators - eyes in the front for depth perception. |
Why repeat something that has already been dealt with. Are gorillas predators? Are gibbons predators?
Many predators have eyes in the front for depth perception. Some don't. There are other reasons for such an arrangement of eyes - depth perception is important if you spend a lot of time swinging through the trees, for example. | myleshi wrote: |
| Quote: | Does it matter?
We have the ability to choose. Why take that ability away because of the way we're built. We don't have to be predators, so why should we if we don't want to? |
No, not really. You can't fight millions of years of evolution that created humans and placed us at the top of the food chain. You can try, but you can't hide what we all are - meat eaters and hunters.
Predators - eyes in the front for depth perception. |
=/ We weren't always meat eaters and hunters. We don't have to stay that way just because past generations brought us to this point.
Don't know how depth perception strictly relates to predation, so I'll leave that alone.By the way, WE are not predator. As far as I know, you probably buy your food at a grocery, I doubt you go kill a pig to make your ham sandwich.
| Urban wrote: |
| By the way, WE are not predator. As far as I know, you probably buy your food at a grocery, I doubt you go kill a pig to make your ham sandwich. |
That's a very good point. We ceased to be predators as soon as we stopped killing animals to stay alive.You can't fight what you are - a human predator. Evolution has provided you with the brains to devise weapons to bring down other beasts without which you would not stand a chance of killing. The first were rocks and sticks and now guns.
Just because most of us "hunt" in the grocery stores does not change a thing. We all have the hunter and killer instict in our genetic makeup. Release your inner animal, you'll be happier. 
*Jinx pounds her chest to assert her dominance and, picking up a large stick, she looks around for a target.*
Does anyone else hear the theme to 2001 playing?
Seriously, we've come a long way from that. We can choose to not be predators. When is the last time you had to run down your dinner? (and I don't mean roadkill stew)
Eating meat is a choice, and one that many of us prefer to indulge in. Don't try to sooth your conscious by arguing that it's the "natural order of things".
I know exactly where that steak came from. My grandfather raises cattle. I've bottle fed an orphaned calf, knowing exactly what his fate was going to be. Every year we get a freezerload of white-paper wrapped beef, Grandpa's traditional Christmas gift to us. I have no illusions about where it came from, and no qualms about eating a cow whose nose I might have patted only a few months earlier.
But that's just me. And I have a choice. If I really wanted to, I could give up meat just as easily. Hell, some of my favorite dishes are meatless (like eggplant lasagna, yum.)
