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Do you think humans will become extinct ever?






Do you think humans will become extinct sometime?
Yes
73%
 73%  [ 64 ]
No
17%
 17%  [ 15 ]
Undecided
9%
 9%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 87

MGC77
Do you think humans will become extinct sometime? This question is debatable, since humans are different from other species in that they can improve the life expectancies and survival rates of individuals.

Taking this into account do you believe humans could potentially not become extinct if they can control the factors that lead to their extinction?

If you do think that humans will become extinct sometime, when do you extimate this would happen? Thousands, millions of years?

Thanks for you input!
Afaceinthematrix
Sure. I think that it's perfectly possible for us to become extinct, and that it will probably happen (maybe in billions of years). The vast majority of species that have lived on this planet have become extinct. Besides, life cannot exist without the sun and the sun will eventually burn out.
ocalhoun
To say that we would never go extinct is an extremely bold statement. After all, even the universe will eventually either collapse into itself for 'hot death', or slowly succumb to entropy until there is no usable energy left making for 'cold death'.

Could humanity survive either of those? Unlikely.
Will humans leave our solar system before the sun dies? I don't know, but that will probably be the deciding factor in how long the species lasts.
Another crucial point is weather we either leave the Earth, or make ourselves sustainable on it before it is ruined for life.

Of course, this all assumes that a rouge planetoid won't smash the Earth into tiny bits within a week...
truespeed
Its a good question,to which no one can know the answer for sure other than to say that humans are the only life form that has existed on earth that has the potential to move beyond this solar system and continue the species elsewhere.

Mans only downfall could be as ocalhoun said a natural disaster on a scale not seen since the dinosaurs,but even with something on that scale i still think there would be large pockets of survivors.

The only other thing that could cease our existence prematurely is man himself,with todays weaponary,wars have the potential to end all human life on earth.
J-Evil
Eventually it WILL happen, but most definitely not in OUR lifetime, so it's not really anything for us to worry about.
Indi
J-Evil wrote:
Eventually it WILL happen, but most definitely not in OUR lifetime, so it's not really anything for us to worry about.

You hope. ^_^;
driftingfe3s
Everything eventually comes to an end.
Ankhanu
Yup, we'll become extinct, at some point... even if it's just a change in our species classification (I can't forsee a real speciation "event" going on under current conditions, but who knows what the future may bring).
barmstonian
we're a bubble that's going to burst i reckon.
B.
icecool
J-Evil wrote:
Eventually it WILL happen, but most definitely not in OUR lifetime, so it's not really anything for us to worry about.


have you got family?
brothers sisters cousins - with kids?
maybe even you have KIDS????
or planning on having some

why don't you show THEM your reply.

in my mind its exacly selfish people with this attitude that's gonna put an end to the human race.
look around you and see the mess we have made of our planet. and we carry on doing it inspite of the fact that we KNOW we are doing it.

call that responsible?
or just HUMAN NATURE
selfish
yep
that's US

cheers?
i think not
deanhills
This is really a good question. I think there is a good possibility of extinction and probably sooner than what we think, but perhaps not in our lifetime. I just think about global warming and the north and southpole ice melting ..... probably science fiction thinking, but we are obviously burning too much oil, destroying our fresh air with pollution, too many people, too much production, too many wars and bombs going off. In the meanwhile I guess it is best just to enjoy the moments we have and when one thinks extinction it sort of makes our lives a little more precious for the moment of now. Smile
Indi
WHAT? ^_^;

Seriously: WHAT? "Our entire species is probably going to go extinct by our own hand pretty soon, but eh, ****** it. Let's just mellow out and have fun."

Do i even need to comment further? Or does someone else want to point out the flaws here?
ocalhoun
Indi wrote:
Our entire species is probably going to go extinct by our own hand pretty soon,


Meh, an overreaction. Humans are as resilient and adaptive as cockroaches. We couldn't exterminate ourselves if we tried. So, why not enjoy the moment?
Cddhesh
There is large possibility for human beings to become extinct.Day by day age of human is decreasing,I don't mean that age or period where due to medicines human being is able to live longer life.I mean to say overall age.Imbalance has occurred in nature due to which soon there may be scarcity of resources required for life on the earth.Lets hope for the best what we can do.
miacps
It's inevitable. No telling what will finally be the cause but I'd guess that the human race will die off well before other earth life. If we manage to get colonies going in space or other planets, we might be the last surviving earth life, however all it takes is a couple disease epidemics and *poof*.
AmeliaRose
Yes Most Definatley



Humans Will Become Extinct One Day And That In MY Mind Is Set.

Well Definatley On Earth Anyway. f The Human Race Will Expand To Live On Jupiter Or Some Unknown Planet I Am Not Sure.

Also I See This Opening Up A Series Of Questions Like Will We Find Humans On Other Planets or Aliens One Day Becase If A Planet Has Water And The Right Tempriture Then Bacteria Can Form And If Bacteria Can Form It Can Als Evolve And I personaly Do Not Belive That Earth Is The Only Planet With Living Things.

So Yes On Earth I Belive The Human Race Will Become Extinct.
kitsrock
there is no doubt in our extinction no matter where we are.

in physics point of view, everything around us slowly reaching maximum entrophy, in which case the universe, let alone earth, can no longer support human life as we know it.

of course, that is far into the future, if we somehow manage to escape our sun collapsing on itself for a nice and deadly supernova, and the nuclear war on earth before that.
Bikerman
kitsrock wrote:
there is no doubt in our extinction no matter where we are.

in physics point of view, everything around us slowly reaching maximum entrophy, in which case the universe, let alone earth, can no longer support human life as we know it.

of course, that is far into the future, if we somehow manage to escape our sun collapsing on itself for a nice and deadly supernova, and the nuclear war on earth before that.

Hmmm....a couple of points;
a) Entropy (not entrophy)
b) Our sun is not large enough to go supernova - it will become a Red Giant and then a White Dwarf. (That will still, of course, be fatal to anything left on Earth, and it is quite likely that Earth will be consumed completely during the Red Giant phase)...
TBSC
Whoa, only 1 vote for no so far. Well I'd like to keep an optimistic attitude here. Considering the human race and technology will advance in the future, there is no reason that I see that the possibility of them never becoming extinct is less than them becoming extinct. Especially if technological advances as well as biological ones keep happening at the same rate that they have so far.

It has only been a relatively short time that we have even had science as we now know it in existence, and from that point, speeded up by the industrial revolution, advancements have taken hold at a very fast pace compared to the whole history of mankind. Of course this is also taking into considering if people want to pursue technology and biological advancements that will aid in humans surviving no matter what environmental consequence, which I have no doubts that some do.
liljp617
NEVER go extinct? Of course they will. If nothing else, the sun isn't unlimited. I'm not sure humans can take that on Razz

I will say we have a great chance at survival under the majority of terrible conditions simply because of our ability to invent, adapt, problem solve, critically think, etc. We stand a pretty good chance against most things in my opinion. But I'm pretty damn sure humans won't last forever. We're just another species and we have our weaknesses which will most likely lead to our downfall at some point.
TBSC
liljp617 wrote:
NEVER go extinct? Of course they will. If nothing else, the sun isn't unlimited. I'm not sure humans can take that on Razz

I will say we have a great chance at survival under the majority of terrible conditions simply because of our ability to invent, adapt, problem solve, critically think, etc. We stand a pretty good chance against most things in my opinion. But I'm pretty damn sure humans won't last forever. We're just another species and we have our weaknesses which will most likely lead to our downfall at some point.


Well maybe by that time, they will have the means to go to another solar system or something.
liljp617
TBSC wrote:
liljp617 wrote:
NEVER go extinct? Of course they will. If nothing else, the sun isn't unlimited. I'm not sure humans can take that on Razz

I will say we have a great chance at survival under the majority of terrible conditions simply because of our ability to invent, adapt, problem solve, critically think, etc. We stand a pretty good chance against most things in my opinion. But I'm pretty damn sure humans won't last forever. We're just another species and we have our weaknesses which will most likely lead to our downfall at some point.


Well maybe by that time, they will have the means to go to another solar system or something.

I have to take the question based upon the past and current reality.
Insanity
It's always possible that we'll have the means to find somewhere else to live in the universe before our sun explodes (implodes). However, at the rate we're going, we can't even manage to take care of our own planet by destroying our natural resources and wrecking the ecosystems. I don't think I want humans anywhere else in the universe if we keep this up. Stick to destroying this one galaxy.
TBSC
liljp617 wrote:
TBSC wrote:
liljp617 wrote:
NEVER go extinct? Of course they will. If nothing else, the sun isn't unlimited. I'm not sure humans can take that on Razz

I will say we have a great chance at survival under the majority of terrible conditions simply because of our ability to invent, adapt, problem solve, critically think, etc. We stand a pretty good chance against most things in my opinion. But I'm pretty damn sure humans won't last forever. We're just another species and we have our weaknesses which will most likely lead to our downfall at some point.


Well maybe by that time, they will have the means to go to another solar system or something.

I have to take the question based upon the past and current reality.


Ok, well what I was responding to was your future prediction that something would happen to the sun.
Wuppie
Depends if we get the technology to colonize other worlds. So I'm undecided.
miacps
TBSC wrote:
Whoa, only 1 vote for no so far. Well I'd like to keep an optimistic attitude here. Considering the human race and technology will advance in the future, there is no reason that I see that the possibility of them never becoming extinct is less than them becoming extinct. Especially if technological advances as well as biological ones keep happening at the same rate that they have so far.


This universe isn't eternal so I can't see humans surviving past the point where it expands into frozen, dark, emptiness.

Also, its unlikely we could remain genetically healthy for long without the earth's magnetic field. Astronauts are exposed to high levels of radiation so this would be a big problem for any space colonies.
zellfaze
Indi wrote:
J-Evil wrote:
Eventually it WILL happen, but most definitely not in OUR lifetime, so it's not really anything for us to worry about.

You hope. ^_^;


I think the human race will kill itself off within the next 100 years, either in war or by destroying the planet. I look forward to that day.
liljp617
TBSC wrote:
liljp617 wrote:
TBSC wrote:
liljp617 wrote:
NEVER go extinct? Of course they will. If nothing else, the sun isn't unlimited. I'm not sure humans can take that on Razz

I will say we have a great chance at survival under the majority of terrible conditions simply because of our ability to invent, adapt, problem solve, critically think, etc. We stand a pretty good chance against most things in my opinion. But I'm pretty damn sure humans won't last forever. We're just another species and we have our weaknesses which will most likely lead to our downfall at some point.


Well maybe by that time, they will have the means to go to another solar system or something.

I have to take the question based upon the past and current reality.


Ok, well what I was responding to was your future prediction that something would happen to the sun.

I understand, but you stated that we may be able to inhabit other planets as we do Earth by that time. At the time (reality), I see that being extremely unlikely and again, at the time, I can't say I think it will happen for hundreds of centuries if it ever happens. The complexities of doing so are something we've never come close to facing.
icecool
zellfaze wrote:
Indi wrote:
J-Evil wrote:
Eventually it WILL happen, but most definitely not in OUR lifetime, so it's not really anything for us to worry about.

You hope. ^_^;


I think the human race will kill itself off within the next 100 years, either in war or by destroying the planet. I look forward to that day.


looking at the current situation with conflicts all over the place, the need and greed for fossil fuels rising as more economies become mechanised, a growing north-south prosperity gap and global disenchantment with unworkable political "solutions" i think your estimate of 100 years is rather positive.

on the other hand, mother nature is far more rigorous in self control and very unforgiving if abused for to long so your suggestion of species suicide seems far more likely.

but looking forward to it?
why?

this is rather defeatist. we are build to be inventors and fighters for survival - if we ever get our head around the concept that this is one boat we're all in together and it's either sink or sink as a race - unlikely but one can hope and dream - we may just have a little chance.

THIS surely is a goal for anybody with love and compassion in them.

and a question - have you got any kids? what about them?
Indi
This thread breaks my heart.

It's not that people are saying that there is a chance - even a probable one - that humans might go extinct. That doesn't bother me, because it is a reasonable assumption. On the cosmic scale, humans are a tiny and rather fragile species... it's not really reaching too far to think of dozens - or even thousands - of ways that we could be wiped out in a few thousand years, let alone a few million or billion. As depressing a prospect as it may be, it is entirely reasonable to believe that humanity may become extinct. But personally, i'm with icecool and TBSC on this: every day we're getting closer and closer to the point that extinction becomes less and less probable, and eventually functionally impossible. With the rate we're advancing now, i think that's quite possible to achieve. In fact, if we continue apace, and if it is at all possible, i'd say we just might outlast the universe itself.

What bothers me is this:
J-Evil wrote:
... it's not really anything for us to worry about.

deanhills wrote:
... In the meanwhile I guess it is best just to enjoy the moments we have and when one thinks extinction it sort of makes our lives a little more precious for the moment of now. Smile

ocalhoun wrote:
... We couldn't exterminate ourselves if we tried. So, why not enjoy the moment?

zellfaze wrote:
I think the human race will kill itself off within the next 100 years, either in war or by destroying the planet. I look forward to that day.

The extinction of a species - any species - is a tragedy. It means they chose an evolutionary path that was a bad choice, and paid the ultimate and final price for their mistake, or that they never even had a chance to become something potentially spectacular. The harsh reality of nature means that some must go extinct, but it doesn't stop it from being a tragedy whenever it happens.

But if a species as wonderful and unique as human was to go extinct... that would be a tragedy of a scale our minds can't even comprehend. A species of bacteria, fish or insect... as sad is it is to lose one of them, they were just bacteria, fish or insects, and even if we were to lose them all, no one else in the universe would really care (assuming no other adverse effects of losing them). But we are an intelligent, creative species. We already have so much to offer the rest of the intelligent universe - should we ever find anyone else out there. And with every year that passes we become more and more interesting, and accumulate more and more to offer anyone who might be interested out there. If we were to die off today and if our traces were discovered by an alien species, every little bit they could find would be beyond priceless, because it would be unique and likely could never be duplicated in the lifetime of the universe. An alien species that never got to see a dodo... feh, they probably couldn't care less. But an alien species that never gets the chance to communicate with us? They'd probably be pretty bummed, to say the least.

What bothers me most about the attitudes i see represented in those quotes is not only the criminal devaluing of humanity and everything we've accomplished. It's the bloody apathy. You're here today because your ancestors cared about the future, whether or not they ever even imagined that it could be as good as it is. You're here because your ancestors fought... struggled... tooth and claw to survive, because survival matters that much. And your thank you to them is "feh, we're all probably gonna die some day, let's not sweat it" (or even worse: "we deserve it").

While you lazy bastards are sitting around shrugging nonchalantly about the potential extermination of your entire species - and possibly all traces of any culture and civilization associated with it - there are people, right now, today, struggling and fighting to keep our species going. They're researching medical technologies to fight diseases that don't even exist yet, engineering technologies to handle just about every kind of potential disaster we can conceive of, and building institutions that they hope will keep our civilization intact and growing for centuries to come. And this is your thanks? Or maybe those guys should all just mellow out, eh? Kick back, relax, and if that giant asteroid hits us before we're ready to deal with it... eh, it was bound to happen some way, some day, right?

i'm a little disgusted, but i guess there's not much i can do about it. You naysayers can always just kick back and ride on the coat tails of the people who are actually working to ensure our continued survival - the people who care - while you reap the benefits of their work like parasites. Hell, that's what you're doing for all of your ancestors and their work, and since you obviously don't give a squat about them and their hopes i can't expect you to care about anyone's today. All i can do is tell you to stay the hell out of my way, because i do not intend to sit back and "just enjoy the moment", i intend to enjoy the moment while working to the best of my ability to make sure our descendents have moments to enjoy, too. As long as you don't get in the way of that, we don't have a problem.

For those who not only don't care about helping us work toward preventing our extinction - for those who actually look forward to it - i have to ask: if you hate this ride so much, why don't you get off?
ocalhoun
Indi wrote:
What bothers me most about the attitudes i see represented in those quotes is not only the criminal devaluing of humanity and everything we've accomplished. It's the bloody apathy. You're here today because your ancestors cared about the future, whether or not they ever even imagined that it could be as good as it is. You're here because your ancestors fought... struggled... tooth and claw to survive, because survival matters that much. And your thank you to them is "feh, we're all probably gonna die some day, let's not sweat it" (or even worse: "we deserve it").


Our ancestors struggled to survive and improve their world because they didn't want to die, and they wanted a more comfortable place to live.
They gave birth to us because they were horny.

For the vast majority of them, the far future (today's present) meant little.

Probably? Definitely. Nobody gets out alive.
xavax
Its pretty likely, but I wonder , given another 'chance' to evolve again from scratch, how human-like a second race could become...
Tumbleweed
ocalhoun wrote:
To say that we would never go extinct is an extremely bold statement. After all, even the universe will eventually either collapse into itself for 'hot death', or slowly succumb to entropy until there is no usable energy left making for 'cold death'.

Could humanity survive either of those? Unlikely.


I would hope that if we have survived to the end of the universe we would have by then found a way to escape it, either through natural ways to another dimension/universe through some exotic cosmic phenomena still undiscovered , or smashing our way out , even if there is no-where to go we could have learned what it takes to create a Big Bang of our own and create our own universe or at least a place to extend our existence.
Indi
ocalhoun wrote:
Indi wrote:
What bothers me most about the attitudes i see represented in those quotes is not only the criminal devaluing of humanity and everything we've accomplished. It's the bloody apathy. You're here today because your ancestors cared about the future, whether or not they ever even imagined that it could be as good as it is. You're here because your ancestors fought... struggled... tooth and claw to survive, because survival matters that much. And your thank you to them is "feh, we're all probably gonna die some day, let's not sweat it" (or even worse: "we deserve it").


Our ancestors struggled to survive and improve their world because they didn't want to die, and they wanted a more comfortable place to live.
They gave birth to us because they were horny.

For the vast majority of them, the far future (today's present) meant little.

Isn't that pretty much what i said?

ocalhoun wrote:
Probably? Definitely. Nobody gets out alive.

Are you sure that is what you mean to say, or is it perhaps just "nobody has gotten out alive so far"?

Biologically and physically, there is no reason we must die. If we could correct for senescence and find a way to store our "mind" (whatever that turns out to be) in a more durable - possibly even distributed and redundant - form we could theoretically live until very close to the end of the universe.

Science wise, we are only 400 years old, max. In 400 years we have completely rewritten our civilization's understanding of our bodies, space, time, matter, energy and more, and most of that progress is in the last 100 years or so, so the pace is obviously increasing. Can you say with absolute certainty that with 400 more years we won't be able to find a way to get around the end of the universe? i can't... because even now - today - we have physicists on the cutting edge drawing up escape scenarios. Yes, seriously. Now - today - they are already thinking about it, and some of the guys doing the most advanced physics in the world say we have a chance.


xavax wrote:
Its pretty likely, but I wonder , given another 'chance' to evolve again from scratch, how human-like a second race could become...

Biologically, slim to none. If we were wiped out, the next best contenders up to bat are mostly all our nearest biological kin (apes and the like), but even they will not necessarily follow the same evolutionary path we did. They could look nothing like us at all, or they could be pretty close; they could be like Wookies, or Ewoks (god help us). But if something else steps up to the plate - dolphins or whales or something else - they could be as alien as anything from out there among the stars.

Culturally/psychologically, that's a tough question to answer. Any replacement for humanity on Earth will have - more or less - the same environment we did, assuming they live mostly on land. How close? How much does that matter? Who knows?
ocalhoun
Tumbleweed wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
To say that we would never go extinct is an extremely bold statement. After all, even the universe will eventually either collapse into itself for 'hot death', or slowly succumb to entropy until there is no usable energy left making for 'cold death'.

Could humanity survive either of those? Unlikely.


I would hope that if we have survived to the end of the universe we would have by then found a way to escape it, either through natural ways to another dimension/universe through some exotic cosmic phenomena still undiscovered , or smashing our way out , even if there is no-where to go we could have learned what it takes to create a Big Bang of our own and create our own universe or at least a place to extend our existence.


Hot death may be avoidable, perhaps by orbiting the final mass, using energy radiated from it, and waiting for it to expand again...

Cold death would be much harder to survive though. No matter how efficient your generator is, it will eventually run out of fuel. Your solar panels are useless when all the stars have burnt out. Your batteries can't last forever... That would be a bad life... Surviving on the last little scraps of energy, staving off an inevitable end. A slow, ugly way to die.

Of course, they could still survive by time travel or travel to parallel universes, but that is just speculative.
thejam
Yeah humans will extinct, and if they don't slow down this will probably happen very soon too.
Almost all creatures lived are extinct now. I am quite sure humans will go on that list too
TurtleShell
I think in some hypothetical universe where humans can get their act together and not destroy the planet (or each other) it would be possible for science to advance enough that humans could extend their existence to the end of the universe.

I just don't see this happening. I don't see people getting that far. I think we're going to spend the next 600 or 700 yrs or so screwing up our existence and using science to plug the holes. Collectively it's like we're in over our heads in credit card debt and the interest rates are rising faster than our income. This--we--can't go on forever. Not like we are.

I believe that sometime in the next 1,000 yrs, after steadily degrading our overall existence and quality of life we'll probably go extinct.

I'm glad to be alive now because I'm afraid its only going to get worse. But, I also believe in reincarnation and I think I'm in for it with the rest of you.

I don't think anything lasts forever, and that includes the universe and it definitely includes people. The Buddhists say that a part of the beauty of existence is the temporary nature of it. When I contemplate the end of people I'm sad, but I'm most sad when I think about the pain that will accompany it.
Tumbleweed
ocalhoun wrote:
Tumbleweed wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
To say that we would never go extinct is an extremely bold statement. After all, even the universe will eventually either collapse into itself for 'hot death', or slowly succumb to entropy until there is no usable energy left making for 'cold death'.

Could humanity survive either of those? Unlikely.


I would hope that if we have survived to the end of the universe we would have by then found a way to escape it, either through natural ways to another dimension/universe through some exotic cosmic phenomena still undiscovered , or smashing our way out , even if there is no-where to go we could have learned what it takes to create a Big Bang of our own and create our own universe or at least a place to extend our existence.


Hot death may be avoidable, perhaps by orbiting the final mass, using energy radiated from it, and waiting for it to expand again...

Cold death would be much harder to survive though. No matter how efficient your generator is, it will eventually run out of fuel. Your solar panels are useless when all the stars have burnt out. Your batteries can't last forever... That would be a bad life... Surviving on the last little scraps of energy, staving off an inevitable end. A slow, ugly way to die.

Of course, they could still survive by time travel or travel to parallel universes, but that is just speculative.


What is speculative today is science tomorrow ......... I have faith that mankind would find a way or make a way to survive our dieing universe, I would speculate that we may work alongside other intelligent life stuck in the same box as us, all the intelligent life in the universe + a billion or so years research/observation seems like a winning formula to me.
ocalhoun
Tumbleweed wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
Tumbleweed wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
To say that we would never go extinct is an extremely bold statement. After all, even the universe will eventually either collapse into itself for 'hot death', or slowly succumb to entropy until there is no usable energy left making for 'cold death'.

Could humanity survive either of those? Unlikely.


I would hope that if we have survived to the end of the universe we would have by then found a way to escape it, either through natural ways to another dimension/universe through some exotic cosmic phenomena still undiscovered , or smashing our way out , even if there is no-where to go we could have learned what it takes to create a Big Bang of our own and create our own universe or at least a place to extend our existence.


Hot death may be avoidable, perhaps by orbiting the final mass, using energy radiated from it, and waiting for it to expand again...

Cold death would be much harder to survive though. No matter how efficient your generator is, it will eventually run out of fuel. Your solar panels are useless when all the stars have burnt out. Your batteries can't last forever... That would be a bad life... Surviving on the last little scraps of energy, staving off an inevitable end. A slow, ugly way to die.

Of course, they could still survive by time travel or travel to parallel universes, but that is just speculative.


What is speculative today is science tomorrow ......... I have faith that mankind would find a way or make a way to survive our dieing universe, I would speculate that we may work alongside other intelligent life stuck in the same box as us, all the intelligent life in the universe + a billion or so years research/observation seems like a winning formula to me.

A very optimistic view of relations with alien life...
We humans can't even get along with each other, though we are basically all the same. How could we get along with something that actually did have huge differences from us? Though I suppose with billions of years anything is possible, even peaceful humans...
Tom7
i believe after all the mistakes we have made on this planet. (eg: pollution and introducing animals to areas where they should not exist. ) we probably would make the same mistakes twice, because thats our nature Wink
metalfreek
The only way human will extinct is either by Nuclear Bomb or by huge asteroid collision with earth or at the time when Sun finish up its Fuel.
chasbeen
Yeah, if we can colonise (other planets/moons) thats the thing. Im thinking we have not made the jump yet, so time is running out if we stay grounded. Wouldn't it be great if we were practicing by having a small colony on the moon right now that was self sufficient.
jmaninc68
yes but it will be a long long long time from now...nothing to worry about at this point in time......everything that has a beginnig has an end...yes i stole that from the matrix..in this case: humanity
marrs
Yes, humans will definitely go extinct. Species go extinct all the time as the environment changes. The key to ongoing life is that new species take the place of old species. The lives of species aren't that different than the lives of individuals.

Humans are much more capable of manipulating their environment than other species, but that certainly has its plusses and minuses. It could mean we have the ability to speed up our extinction.
The-Nisk
if by extinct you mean we'll die from this prolonged large-scale suicide (provoking global warming, cutting down rainforests, stipid wars), then yes.
ocalhoun
The-Nisk wrote:
provoking global warming, cutting down rainforests, stipid wars

None of those would be anywhere near sufficient to wipe out the entire species.
roninmedia
Yes, I do believe we will become extinct one day; whether by the classical definition of extinction where we are all wiped out or we somehow evolve to another species biologically separate from Homo sapiens as we know it. I hardly believe that man-made causes can cause species-wide extinction as we know it. Global warming, nuclear disaster, war; while all causes that deserves and should receive our attention will not be the events that cause the human species to be wiped off the planet.

If I had to wager on what causes it, it will be something external from space that not only wipes out humans but a large percentage of the species like other extinction events that occurred previously in the history of our planet (referring to the percentage of species wiped out, not the same event cause). Heavenly body, epic solar flare, the likes of which we may have never seen.
ocalhoun
Disease might do it. Suppose there was an epidemic effecting nearly everyone (AIDS might do as an example). With such a strong selector, some would evolve to be immune to it. (There is already some evidence for genetic immunity to AIDS in some African prostitutes.) If they were isolated somehow (by quarantines, perhaps) they might change to the point where interbreeding is no longer possible. (A disease causing a species to split has been seen in wasps.) Then the immune ones might very well be able to expand out and conquer the non-immune ones who have been severely weakened by the disease. Then the original ones would be extinct soon.
Diablosblizz
Our population could be destroyed in a matter of seconds. Heck, like ocalhoun just said, disease. For all ANYBODY knows, aliens could come out of the middle of nowhere, and no more humans.

It could happen, nobody really knows. There are a lot of thoughts out there, and they're all bogus. Live you life to the fullest, enjoy every day!
Chinmoy
it is possible for humans to become extinct but at the same time it is highly improbable. Humans are high up in the chains and have a proper evolution which is strategically laid out so as to make us the biggest parasites. We can evolve further but exinction is a big doubt...
MGC77
I don't think humans are parasites....
ocalhoun
MGC77 wrote:
I don't think humans are parasites....

By any non-philosophical definition, we are not. What host creature do we feed on?
MGC77
Hey, I like your website. Well no technically we are not parasites.

Now why anyone would want to actually be an animal is an interesting thought.
Ankhanu
MGC77 wrote:
Now why anyone would want to actually be an animal is an interesting thought.


Has nothing to do with whether we WANT to be animals or not, the fact is simple: we are.


As for the various things mentioned that could cause our extinction (ie. climate change, war, disease, etc)... yeah, for the most part I agree that they are, individually, not sufficient to bring about our extinction, don't discount the power of synergy. Add a couple factors together that make life difficult... but not impossible.. to maintain for a species and there comes a point where none are capable of surviving. This sort of thing CAN happen on a global scale. Of course, we would certainly not be the only species affected, but that's not the discussion at hand Wink

The likelihood of this sort of thing is pretty low... but through our own actions we're making it slightly more possible every day. Our great power to manipulate our environment is like every other evolutionary benefit; it comes at a cost... and costs aren't always immediately understood nor noticed.
tippsoftware
I think that its a big possibility that the human race would be extinguished. In fact, if we dont experiment a mutation or develop cloning so fast, the extintion is around the corner. In 200 or 300 years, nature would be hostile and cruel with the human race, because we dont have a body prepared against anormal situations...

Well, it's my opinion.

Bye.
Fake
Well the only way we will become extinct is through war
As long as there is food and oxygen, we will live for a long long time to come


GoOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Humans!!!!
deanhills
Indi wrote:
Biologically and physically, there is no reason we must die. If we could correct for senescence and find a way to store our "mind" (whatever that turns out to be) in a more durable - possibly even distributed and redundant - form we could theoretically live until very close to the end of the universe.


This is a quote from an August 2008 posting in this thread that I missed before and read with lots of interest today. Would be great if you could give us your insights in how you think it could be possible to live as long as the Universe? And if it is possible, why are we dying before our time? If it is possible to get to be as old as the Universe, and the human species' main objective is to survive, why is the design to live forever not part of our biological make-up? Why the need for families then, and why the need for change?
wanshi
I think humans will not extinct£¬just one possible result£¬that is New humans become more advanced and powerful. They have strong ability to live in a new situation. And they are different from the humans us. Smile
hangnhu
this post made me remember something in the paper some weeks ago, apparently male gene are dying out and men will be extinct way before human
in the next few hundreth years I think.

what is happening to the world Razz
Bikerman
Er, I think you are referring to the Y chromosome.
Yep - it is indeed in decline. Current estimates say that it will disappear in about 5000 generations (125,000 years).
Since the SRY gene is on the Y chromosome and this is the gene that 'makes' males, then yes, if nothing else happens, males will cease to be born. This might well be a problem for the women as well, unless they stock the sperm banks REALLY well....
truespeed
Bikerman wrote:
Er, I think you are referring to the Y chromosome.
Yep - it is indeed in decline. Current estimates say that it will disappear in about 5000 generations (125,000 years).
Since the SRY gene is on the Y chromosome and this is the gene that 'makes' males, then yes, if nothing else happens, males will cease to be born. This might well be a problem for the women as well, unless they stock the sperm banks REALLY well....


I suppose the obvious question is Y,why will this happen,has it happened to other species?

Though i am sure we can stock pile enough sperm to last indefinitely.
Bikerman
truespeed wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
Er, I think you are referring to the Y chromosome.
Yep - it is indeed in decline. Current estimates say that it will disappear in about 5000 generations (125,000 years).
Since the SRY gene is on the Y chromosome and this is the gene that 'makes' males, then yes, if nothing else happens, males will cease to be born. This might well be a problem for the women as well, unless they stock the sperm banks REALLY well....


I suppose the obvious question is Y,why will this happen,has it happened to other species?

Though i am sure we can stock pile enough sperm to last indefinitely.

Good question. Yes, it almost certainly has happened to other species and they probably went extinct.
One way would be to switch the male genes onto the x chromosome. This happens, rarely, with some males who are born without a y-chromosome. I believe it has also happened naturally with the Mole-vole species, which has no y chromosome....
Dennise
We'll go extinct only if a major, really major catastrophe happens before we can 'Get out of dodge' ..... one we have no control over. Examples are our sun dying, a large enough asteroid collision etc.

If we can develop technology to allow escape to other worlds before such a catastrophic event ..... then we may have a chance. Otherwise, eventually we're 'toast'.

Another possibility that could avoid our demise might mean being rescued by superior and caring aliens from other worlds that intervene before a catastrophe. Of course we might then wind up in their zoos.

If indeed we are alone in the universe, then it's more likely our days are numbered because moving to another world on our own, and prospering there, is a real stretch. Rolling Eyes
ocalhoun
Dennise wrote:

Of course we might then wind up in their zoos.

Perhaps we already have. They may have already collected specimens.
Or perhaps our entire planet is just a zoological enclosure...

(now leaving the twilight zone)
clnhshome
i think not,
how will the humans get extinct when the
world is overpopulated by humans
OraShadow
It's possible and it will happen. We can't stop a meteor from hiting the Earth, or the Sun exploding or Expanding and burning the Earth. I don't think either of these will happen any time soon, but anything is possible. I don't belive the world will end on 2012, but I'm still debating that.
yagnyavalkya
I don't think the human race can become extinct some DNA will be saved and can be cloned later by the species will be the evolutionary result of human advancement
yagnyavalkya
I dont think humans will be extickt in fact there is a chance that they will become machines like in the movei terminator
metalfreek
zellfaze wrote:
Indi wrote:
J-Evil wrote:
Eventually it WILL happen, but most definitely not in OUR lifetime, so it's not really anything for us to worry about.

You hope. ^_^;


I think the human race will kill itself off within the next 100 years, either in war or by destroying the planet. I look forward to that day.


Are yo 50 years old? Why are you waiting for that day to come? I wish we would exist for ever. At least I hope the existence of human for next 50 years because I might live for another 50 years. Very Happy Laughing
Baka_Desu
I reckon we won't be extinct anytime soon. Maybe because of how advanced space exploration has become, i mean in the next maybe 200 years Earth might be destroyed by Global Warming but i think mankind would've found a way to terraform planets to make it capable of living in. But thats just my opinion/belief.
ocalhoun
Baka_Desu wrote:
in the next maybe 200 years Earth might be destroyed by Global Warming

Couldn't help laughing at that. Destroyed? Damaged a little, perhaps, in the worst-case scenario. If primitive cave-man humans can survive an ice age, modern humans can surely adapt to a warm age.
Quote:
but i think mankind would've found a way to terraform planets to make it capable of living in. But thats just my opinion/belief.

If we had the technology to terraform completely uninhabitable planets, wouldn't it be easier to just undo global warming at home? Surely reducing the temperature and greenhouse gas levels would be child's play compared to terraforming, say, Mars, which would require a huge increase in temperature, increase in air pressure, massive decrease of carbon dioxide, massive increase of oxygen, and would have to be seeded fresh with water and life, and probably other things I haven't thought of...
Diablosblizz
I believe that in maybe 50-100 years we'll have fixed Global Warming with technology somehow. I don't know how, but I've got a feeling. I feel that soon enough technology will be able to fix everything, look how far we've come so far.
ocalhoun
Diablosblizz wrote:
I feel that soon enough technology will be able to fix everything, look how far we've come so far.

In case you haven't noticed, it's that same technology that's supposedly causing the problems we're having now. Wouldn't future advances be likely to mess up something else, probably causing worse problems than we have now?
MarzEz
personal opinion: we're all screwed within the next 100 years. why?
-the risk of a major pandemic (like swine flu or bird flu, but more serious)
-global warming
-the hole in the ozone layer
-rising sea levels
-the fuel crisis
-overpopulation

and probably several other factors i've forgotten.
you never know, suicide could be handy one day.
SonLight
ocalhoun wrote:

...

If we had the technology to terraform completely uninhabitable planets, wouldn't it be easier to just undo global warming at home? Surely reducing the temperature and greenhouse gas levels would be child's play compared to terraforming, say, Mars, which would require a huge increase in temperature, increase in air pressure, massive decrease of carbon dioxide, massive increase of oxygen, and would have to be seeded fresh with water and life, and probably other things I haven't thought of...


What you say makes sense, yet I see a problem with it. Making major changes to a planet's climate may not be compatable with the planet being inhabited at the time. Conceivably, we might have to "humker down" in a temporary dwelling place, perhaps on the moon or mars, while the earth is modified if we do it that way.

Another problem is that we ought to have a prototype. Mistakes are known to be made with new technologies, and I would much rather practice on another planet, even if it were a poor choice for our final dwelling place, than bet everything on being able to do it right the first time on the Earth.

That said, it might still make sense to plan an improved Earth environment, provided relatively small steps were taken and the results carefully monitored for problems. I think that approach would differ radically from the terraforming method, however.
ocalhoun
SonLight wrote:

That said, it might still make sense to plan an improved Earth environment, provided relatively small steps were taken and the results carefully monitored for problems. I think that approach would differ radically from the terraforming method, however.

Or, just take the cheap and easy method; migrate closer to the polar regions, and away from flood-prone areas. Historically, life does better when the Earth is a little hotter.
Devilizer
Of course we are going to go extinct. Either because of ourselves, a giant meteor, evolution, aliens, etc, etc. The list goes on and on... There is no way we will live forever, the chances of it are so against us its crazy to think we'll be here even 5,000 years from now let alone 1 million.

Personally i'm hoping for evolution to kick our asses, i sorta want to get eaten by a smart flying dolphin.
SonLight
Devilizer wrote:
Of course we are going to go extinct. Either because of ourselves, a giant meteor, evolution, aliens, etc, etc. The list goes on and on... There is no way we will live forever, the chances of it are so against us its crazy to think we'll be here even 5,000 years from now let alone 1 million.

Personally i'm hoping for evolution to kick our asses, i sorta want to get eaten by a smart flying dolphin.


You seem to have quite a low opinion of the humn species. The forces of nature haven't seriously threatened human extinction over the last 5,000 years and there's no reason to think they're likely to over the next 5,000. We have created a great threat to ourselves with nuclear weapons, but even the worst plausible scenario might eliminate 90% of us but is very unlikely to cause extinction. Nuclear destruction might also have the side effect of pushing our technology back so that it would be a long time before we would get nukes again.

For the longer term, I agree that we might not make it a million years, and are unlikely to be around forever. I don't see any specific threat likely to wipe us out in a million years, but that's long enough to give us a lot of chances to find a way to destroy ourselves with no survivors.

Huge meteors will doubtless hit the Earth over the next few hundred million years. Likely they will cause a huge death toll, but again are very unlikely to destroy all of us. No natural disaster is likely to kill us all even if we take no action to protect ourselves. If we attain and keep the technology to explore space, even total destruction of Earth could not kill us all.

If any aliens are around now, they must want us alive. Perhaps their goal is to enslave us, and possibly they already have. Future aliens might not be so nice. We can always hope they will choose to keep a few of us as zoo specimens though.

Humans are the only species so far that has some ability to direct their own evolution. I expect they are likely to use it stupidly, but nevertheless are more likely than not to correct their blunders before all are destroyed. If threatened by evolutionary dangers, whether man-made or not, my bet is that they can and will develop and use the technology to meet the threat.

Forever is a long long time. I favor teaching language and other skills to any creature that wants to learn. If we do that and eventually are destroyed by some of them, we will certainly deserve to be eliminated.
ocalhoun
SonLight wrote:

You seem to have quite a low opinion of the humn species. The forces of nature haven't seriously threatened human extinction over the last 5,000 years and there's no reason to think they're likely to over the next 5,000.

Rolling Eyes What about the next 5,000,000? The next 5,000,000,000?
On a long enough time scale, extinction is a near certainty. Even if there are still 'humans' around in 5 billion years, they'll certainly have changed a lot from they are today.

(And I share that low opinion of the human species. Oh, they are very good at surviving... so are cockroaches.)
pscompanies
This is really a good question. I think there is a good possibility of extinction and probably sooner than what we think, but perhaps not in our lifetime. I just think about global warming and the north and south pole ice melting ..... probably science fiction thinking, but we are obviously burning too much oil, destroying our fresh air with pollution, too many people, too much production, too many wars and bombs going off. In the meanwhile I guess it is best just to enjoy the moments we have and when one thinks extinction it sort of makes our lives a little more precious for the moment of now.
tj6770
me personly yes if the world will end then yes but the world ending is a whole other topic
joostvane
Ofcourse this will happen. Eventually... It is only the question when and how it will happen. If it due to the sun, or that our planet can no longer sustain life?

If we leave the solar system before that happens, we might be able to exist a bit longer, but eventually I think we will run out of options.
TBSC
Bikerman wrote:
truespeed wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
Er, I think you are referring to the Y chromosome.
Yep - it is indeed in decline. Current estimates say that it will disappear in about 5000 generations (125,000 years).
Since the SRY gene is on the Y chromosome and this is the gene that 'makes' males, then yes, if nothing else happens, males will cease to be born. This might well be a problem for the women as well, unless they stock the sperm banks REALLY well....


I suppose the obvious question is Y,why will this happen,has it happened to other species?

Though i am sure we can stock pile enough sperm to last indefinitely.

Good question. Yes, it almost certainly has happened to other species and they probably went extinct.
One way would be to switch the male genes onto the x chromosome. This happens, rarely, with some males who are born without a y-chromosome. I believe it has also happened naturally with the Mole-vole species, which has no y chromosome....


Fascinating conversation here. I had no idea this was possible.
sudipbanerjee
A lot of species has extinct from the earth in the Past. So in natural process Human will be extinct. To indicate the exact time is impossible. It depends on lot of things: on climate, human's adaptibility and many more.
joostvane
Found this website a few days ago: [link removed]. I only looked at it briefly, but I think it belongs in this topic Razz

[MOD - We have a policy of not carrying links to sites which are out to sell you something. In this case the site has a prominent section on the front page asking for donations. Whilst I have every sympathy with the stated aims of the site, I cannot allow the link because that would be inconsistent and partial.
MOD - Bikerman]
HoytJolly
I think that it would be virtually impossible for the human race to become extinct. We are in so many nooks and cranes of this world, there would have to be one or two left after any disaster. Also, most other species become extinct because they cant adapt. Humans have a great advantage in this area because we can adapt our environment.
granvals
Just for today I will try to live through this day only and not tackle my whole life problem at once. I can do something for twelve hours that would appall me if I had to keep it up for a lifetime.
Just for today I will be happy. This assumes to be true what Abraham Lincoln said, that “Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be.”
Just for today I will adjust myself to what is, and not try to adjust everything to my own desires. I will take my “luck” as it comes.
loremar
How can humans go extinct when eventually we will conquer the whole universe.
That is the point of space exploration isn't it? To exist forever(relatively speaking).
Very Happy
SonLight
HoytJolly wrote:
I think that it would be virtually impossible for the human race to become extinct. We are in so many nooks and cranes of this world, there would have to be one or two left after any disaster. Also, most other species become extinct because they cant adapt. Humans have a great advantage in this area because we can adapt our environment.


your point is a good argument. Since we humans are able to adapt to a wide variety of situations, we can indeed survive as a species in the face of catastrophe. I can't help pointing out one flaw in your argument, which is more of a misstatement than a real error. While humanity is likely to survive even if our numbers are reduced to only a very few, if there were only "one or two" left there would be a high probability of our extinction. A near certainty of extinction, in fact, if only one were left.

If you consider a time period of billions of years, it is quite certain that the Earth will eventually become uninhabitable. Whether we would survive its demise, and perhaps the demise of many successor planets also, may depend on the habitability of the universe in general in a way that we do not yet appreciate.

@loremar, it does seem that we have the potential for dominance (unless, of course, we meet a species more advanced than we are). Whether we have the will and the ability to cooperate with each other enough to actually take full advantage of the opportunities the universe offers us is another question.
sermonis
I saw somewhere a video that we have stupid people that wants to have many children and there are science geeks that don't want any or 1 child after 35. And then in this movie stupid people had 5 babes and geeks any.. after 5 years stupid people didn't had any money to raise their children so they all died. This sounds very scary but I think it works. I live in Poland (yes that's why my eng is poor) and I noticed that many geeks really don't want to have children and stupid teens that get drunk every weekend have 2 or more! That's why normal people thinks that if my child will be teached and raised in the same school and in the same society as that children from pathological families I don't want any children! Hm.. so In my opinion we'll be dead in few centuries
ocalhoun
loremar wrote:
How can humans go extinct when eventually we will conquer the whole universe.
That is the point of space exploration isn't it? To exist forever(relatively speaking).
Very Happy

But the universe itself probably won't last forever. Even colonizing the whole universe won't prevent that* eventual extinction.

*The 'cold death' of entropy, or the 'hot death' of the universe drawing back into a single point like a reverse big bang.
shivaghimire
Yes, human being will extinct one day and needs to be. There is rule; who comes needs to go. Human beings came, did many intellectual works and one day it will despair from this earth. The only thing is that whether extinct soon or late. There should be long life of human if they go thinking the goodness of nature and they extinct soon if they go against it. But one day human beings need to go from here.
SonLight
shivaghimire wrote:
Yes, human being will extinct one day and needs to be. There is rule; who comes needs to go. Human beings came, did many intellectual works and one day it will despair from this earth. The only thing is that whether extinct soon or late. There should be long life of human if they go thinking the goodness of nature and they extinct soon if they go against it. But one day human beings need to go from here.


For individuals, it seems there must be a limit to life; as I like to put it, "Birth causes death". I do not see that as a necessity for a species. Many arguments suggest that humanity is likely to become extinct sometime, whether in thousands or many billions of years. While the probability of it is real, I do not see any logical or moral or desirable reason why it SHOULD happen.

Even the cockroach seems to have a potential for indefinite survival, although they might need to catch a ride to a new planet once in a while with humans or their replacements in order to do so.

I would like to know why you feel there is some kind of necessity for humans to one day become extinct. Does the same principle apply to every species? How about a collection of robotic machines which have become self-sustaining?
ocalhoun
SonLight wrote:

I would like to know why you feel there is some kind of necessity for humans to one day become extinct. Does the same principle apply to every species?

Mainly, evolution hasn't stopped. A new human subspecies or an entirely different species altogether may (will, provided we don't go extinct in the meantime) someday become more advanced than humans and replace us.

We have plenty of time (unless we start accelerating our own evolution), but even though our descendants may last until the end of the universe, they will probably be unrecognizable as homo sapiens within several million years.
kta_fh
If humanity is to survive the end of life, universe and everything, it must pass some tests within certain timescales:

in 100 years: reach and maintain balance with the earth
in 10000 years: reach the outer space in big quantity
in 1000000 years: reach all of the universe
in 1000000000 years: create the next universe

The first test is the most difficult. The remaining tests have a timescale just to keep us motivated. Without motivation the humanity is doomed.

BTW, these events will not terminate humanity, but only make it suffer: wars, diseases, natural catastrophies, objects falling from the sky.
Daja
I find it unlikely, but noone can know for sure, the only way I see it happening is with a perfect recycle mechanism and a closely controlled population growth.


That Y gene topic got me interested, maybe then the planet could be renamed to bitch paradise.
Ankhanu
kta_fh wrote:
If humanity is to survive the end of life, universe and everything, it must pass some tests within certain timescales:

in 100 years: reach and maintain balance with the earth
in 10000 years: reach the outer space in big quantity
in 1000000 years: reach all of the universe
in 1000000000 years: create the next universe

The first test is the most difficult. The remaining tests have a timescale just to keep us motivated. Without motivation the humanity is doomed.

Your time scale seems almost completely arbitrary... as do the tests themselves (other than the first)

kta_fh wrote:
BTW, these events will not terminate humanity, but only make it suffer: wars, diseases, natural catastrophies, objects falling from the sky.

Pretty bold, and unsubstantiated statements there. I agree that war is unlikely to take us all out unless there is some sort of large scale global nuclear type war or the like, and disease is also unlikely, based on general principles of how pathogenic organisms must coexist with their hosts in order to survive and how population depression shields from disease transmission somewhat (though non-biological pathogens could be another story), but, widespread natural "catastrophes" (a catastrophe is a value judgement, an earthquake that doesn't hit a populated region is just an earthquake, but if it levels a city, it's a catastrophe) could have a devastating effect... something like a meteor impact could certainly end all life on the planet... hell, if it's big enough, it could destroy the planet, not just its ability to harbour life.

Daja wrote:
That Y gene topic got me interested, maybe then the planet could be renamed to bitch paradise.

What are you even talking about with your rather disrespectful utterance?
kta_fh
Ankhanu wrote:
kta_fh wrote:
If humanity is to survive the end of life, universe and everything, it must pass some tests within certain timescales:

in 100 years: reach and maintain balance with the earth
in 10000 years: reach the outer space in big quantity
in 1000000 years: reach all of the universe
in 1000000000 years: create the next universe

The first test is the most difficult. The remaining tests have a timescale just to keep us motivated. Without motivation the humanity is doomed.

Your time scale seems almost completely arbitrary... as do the tests themselves (other than the first)


Just guessing what needs to be done in order not to get extinct. Other means may exist Wink

Quote:
kta_fh wrote:
BTW, these events will not terminate humanity, but only make it suffer: wars, diseases, natural catastrophies, objects falling from the sky.

Pretty bold, and unsubstantiated statements there.


I tried to be provocative. But apart from athe improbable major impact, nothing will in short time scale wipe us out of this planet. Unless Vonnegut got it right and there will be no more of us.
donoob88
the only way that the people can extinct was when the earth is destroyed.. as far as i know, this world has a limit, it will be gone soon as well as humans.. as i believe, this earth will be filled with fire that will destroy all living and non-living thing.. people that goes to the holy land will live happily ever after.. does who don't, well, they will live painfully ever after.. they will take a bath in fires Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
deanhills
Could be possible if they become infertile for some or other reason.
ocalhoun
donoob88 wrote:
the only way that the people can extinct was when the earth is destroyed..


Lots of ways humans could go extinct without (completely) destroying the planet...

-Deep enough nuclear (or volcanic or astronomical) winter
-Out-competed by their own creations (machine or biological)
-Out-competed by a different species (a 'planet of the apes' like situation)
-Out-competed by a new step in evolution along the same line as humans
-Out-competed by some form of extraterrestrial life (evil alien invaders, or perhaps just an alien pseudo-bacteria... or anything in between.)
Ankhanu
deanhills wrote:
Could be possible if they become infertile for some or other reason.

Only through infertility? I think that's probably one of the less likely causes. Some of the kinda outlandish ones Ocalhoun just mentioned might even be more likely Wink
Navigator
Sure, all it takes is a few rocks coming from the sky, it has happened before.
ocalhoun
Ankhanu wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Could be possible if they become infertile for some or other reason.

Only through infertility? I think that's probably one of the less likely causes. Some of the kinda outlandish ones Ocalhoun just mentioned might even be more likely Wink

On a short term they're outlandish, yes... but given a few million years? Some of them become nearly inevitable.

...The evolution scenario in particular... The next step in evolution might be a new development in the human species... might be based off of some other species... might even be machines... But no matter what the source is, evolution hasn't reached a plateau and isn't just going to stop now. Given sufficient time (even if that time needed is tens of millions of years), it will advance beyond humankind (unless something wipes out all life on Earth first -- which also becomes more and more likely the longer your time scale is).
busaboss
People were very intelligent and I think becoming extinct is not one of their plans. We will live in Earth as long as we can and the fast paced technology evolution can guarantee that because of new innovations, someday I believe there will be a tool to extend human's life. But that is not the near future. It will take hundreds of years to accomplish that feat.
ahmedakter
There is a theory ... Energy cannot be created. Only you can transform it from on form to another. From this, we know that we have limited energy and in everywhere we lost a little or huge energy. So one day we will have no natural energy to use and that day we will extinct from this world.
Bikerman
Err..how do you 'loose' energy? If it cannot be 'created' then neither can it be 'destroyed' or 'wear ouf'.
Smile
busaboss
ahmedakter wrote:
There is a theory ... Energy cannot be created. Only you can transform it from on form to another. From this, we know that we have limited energy and in everywhere we lost a little or huge energy. So one day we will have no natural energy to use and that day we will extinct from this world.



No, I totally disagree! People will never let that happen. They will find ways on how to protect and let mankind survive the challenges that the whole human race would possibly face. I strongly believe in the abilities of researchers and scientists that they will make winders ince again. And as I have known, yes, energy cannot be created but can be converted. Also, it is not lost it is just being converted to other forms and then it repeats the whole process thus energy before=energy after. The whole energy that we know is only circulating the chain.
Tuvitor
Eventually I think humans will either evolve into something else or die out due to astronomical events and other environmental factors.
IceCreamTruck
Despite the fact that we run a slight constant risk of asteroid/comet collision taking us out, we have to survive the eventual sun going nova, and after that we have Andromeda Galaxy about to crash into the milky way, I'd say we definitely have our work cut out for us. Not only do we have to leave the planet, but the solar system, and eventually the galaxy if we are to really survive indefinitely. This is probable IF we can get off the planet and establish a colony outside our galaxy, and not probable if we don't.

I'm afraid that we're all star dust, and to star dust we will return, eventually. Even if we get out and start populating the universe, then we eventually have the big bang to consider, or that things might simply continue drifting apart forever, as they are now. We have to figure out if the big bang can happen without us, or how to keep some of the universe from drifting apart, or eventually there is zero hope of anything we know not being reduced to energy and redispersed in a different pattern then it is now. We have no proof that we are the first or last time the universe has experienced itself subjectively. It does, however, stand to reason that since it has happened this one time with the Earth that there is room enough in the universe for it to have happened before, or even in parallel many times over. Some believe there could be as many as 4000 relatively civilized humanoid evolutions in the milky way alone, just like us. But the hypothesis that produces that figure is a very complicated equation, and we don't even know for sure if we have all the parts of the equation correct yet, so results could vary wildly, and are basically still speculation. It is neat that we have logically speculated the existence of other life in our galaxy, and beyond. We might not make the stars, but other's may... that is about as possible as us surviving... it's all very narrow possibilities.

Life has a way of surprising you though... even in the harshest conditions on earth there is thriving life.
Dennise
There are way too many unknowns to predict human species extinction ..... especially considering man's increasing capability to shape natural evolution here on Earth.

Alternately, should we develop machines to take us to other distant worlds BEFORE we destroy this one or it is destroyed my other processes', a plethora of new possibilities would be before us - even if our numbers were significantly diminished. The time order of these is critical regarding extinction of the human species.
ocalhoun
IceCreamTruck wrote:
and after that we have Andromeda Galaxy about to crash into the milky way

Both galaxies are mostly empty space. The collision will be probably actually be pretty anticlimactic, and there's a very good chance our solar system would be largely unaffected by it.

But then you have universe-scale entropic considerations, and those are pretty difficult to escape...
Eventually the whole universe will either compress back into a new big bang, or will slowly fizzle out as eventually all the energy is dissipated out in non-recoverable forms.

So, yeah, extinction is perfectly certain if you just extend the time scale long enough.
kelseymh
ocalhoun wrote:
IceCreamTruck wrote:
and after that we have Andromeda Galaxy about to crash into the milky way

Both galaxies are mostly empty space. The collision will be probably actually be pretty anticlimactic, and there's a very good chance our solar system would be largely unaffected by it.


On, human timescales (tens of years), the "collision" wouldn't even be noticeable!

Based on observations of many other inter-galaxy collisions, the results are likely to be quite spectacular: dramatically increased star formation (so-called "starburst") along the shock front produced by the collision; tidal disruption of both galaxies' spiral arms and the likely production of long extragalactic trails of stars; and a more-than-even chance of stimulating an AGN from one or both central SMBH's.
365427417
I think not, because each of us there are a lot of things not done it!
365427417
Powerful one species, if he did not comply with the laws of nature will sooner or later perish. Only natural to maintain a state of equilibrium, that is a permanent solution. But in the end will perish only know of the later species. Like the dinosaur era
Iceaxe0410
History and statistics are not in favor of the human race avoiding extinction. While I do believe the human race has the capability to avoid this fate, I also feel that it can also promote or cause the extinction. One need only look towards weapons of mass destruction including germ warfare.

The use of any of these weapons on a grand scale can cause the extinction of humans. This isn't including the forces of nature that can have devastating effects on entire civilizations. I think the only way humans will avoid extinction is if we develop the technology to travel out into space and learn to harvest resources from other planets to sustain ourselves.

As far as time is concerned, I doubt the extinction of humans will come within our lifetimes.
SonLight
Iceaxe0410 wrote:
While I do believe the human race has the capability to avoid this fate, I also feel that it can also promote or cause the extinction. One need only look towards weapons of mass destruction including germ warfare.



The weapons we have today could easily destroy our civilization, possibly killing 90% or more of humanity. However I am convinced that a few would survive. Germ warfare could kill many more than the Bubonic Plague, but it is unlikely to be spread to every continent and island. In the future we could develop weapons that are more lethal, but it seems to me the only reason we would do so is if we intended for the weapons to destroy not just nations, but humanity itself. I can't see that happening, although I know the idea of a "doomsday device" has been explored in sci fi and probably in some government think tanks.

Our own stupidity could probably force those who survived to become hunter-gatherers at least for a time, as could a direct hit by a very large asteroid. Perhaps a 20 km diameter one would do it. To kill us all would, in my opinion, require something like a 100 km diameter asteroid or a comparable natural catastrophe.
ocalhoun
SonLight wrote:
Iceaxe0410 wrote:
While I do believe the human race has the capability to avoid this fate, I also feel that it can also promote or cause the extinction. One need only look towards weapons of mass destruction including germ warfare.



The weapons we have today could easily destroy our civilization, possibly killing 90% or more of humanity. However I am convinced that a few would survive. Germ warfare could kill many more than the Bubonic Plague, but it is unlikely to be spread to every continent and island. In the future we could develop weapons that are more lethal, but it seems to me the only reason we would do so is if we intended for the weapons to destroy not just nations, but humanity itself. I can't see that happening, although I know the idea of a "doomsday device" has been explored in sci fi and probably in some government think tanks.

Our own stupidity could probably force those who survived to become hunter-gatherers at least for a time, as could a direct hit by a very large asteroid. Perhaps a 20 km diameter one would do it. To kill us all would, in my opinion, require something like a 100 km diameter asteroid or a comparable natural catastrophe.


Well, firing off every nuclear warhead on the planet might exterminate the human species (along with most of the rest of the life on the planet)...
A very isolated few might survive that (global radioactive fallout and sun-blocking clouds), but they might be too isolated and the groups be too small to be a viable population afterwards.


But you're right, a disease couldn't do it entirely.
Not only would it likely miss a few isolated populations, there's also the problem of immunity... In a big enough population, there's a good chance that some will somehow be immune to it*, and be able to survive despite being infected... those would breed and the human species would eventually repopulate... this time with most of them being the immune variety.

*I recall reading an interesting article about how some prostitutes in Africa were apparently immune to the AIDS virus... they had it, and had been infected with it for decades, yet they showed no ill effects at all... apparently able to live with it without taking serious harm. If AIDS killed off most humans, ones like that would still survive and eventually repopulate, and after that, most humans would be immune to AIDS.
lightningleo
is this a question..??
everyone who has come to this earth have to go someday..

be it an individual organism or an entire species...

so.. human species is sure to be extinct someday....

be it today.. or 10000 years latter...
enilsoncba
Always always always ... the human race is the only rational animals but our attitudes make us more cruel and selfish that we own breeds irrational. We kill each other, kill parents, we deny love, not compadecemos the less fortunate, or when we do so is but a moment of remórcio, but without effective attitudes ... Finally, all contribute to our own demise ... precisely the concept that brings the movie Transformers, Clash of the Titans too, Thor ... among others .. save the world from the world itself .. it extremely apocalyptic ..
spinout
going extinct... are we living? Anyhow, the sun will stop shining... yes we go extinct in time...
coolclay
Guaranteed extinct at some point, forever is a long time!
slagar100
See this the thing. Humanity is capable of surviving for millions of years but it is highly likely that eventually something will claim the extinction.See when your dealing with billions of years the chances mething catastrophic occurring are increased. A meteor can't destroy humanity but a meteor, epidemics, droughts, war, and natural disasters simultaneously can take us out and took the dinosaurs outHumanity's et for survival us to use our spacefaring technology to spread out across the galaxy. If something happens on Earthwe could still have thousands of other planets, colonies, and space stations. It's called species insurance. What youall don't get ie the question isn't detailed. Do youall know Darwin's law of evolution. If we take a look at humanity 2 million years from now they will look different may not even be humans or will be a different branch. They may have no ears, nose, or may have extra eyes for living in bright areas. if humans branch out and become isolated the differences will be wide. Say in a couple hundred years we meet another alien speicies who needs to survive also. Teaming up with dozens, hundreds or thousands of other intelligent life we could do anything. Give us 10 million years and well be discovering the beginning of the universe and wormholes. If humans don't find friends outside our own speicies and stop the infighting they won't be around for another 10k. We have gotten this far in 150 years. So in 200 well be going at a 10x faster rate we could be doing wonders. With help of advanced aliens even More. its more likely.those aliens would try to smudge us out though.
nickfyoung
That sounds pretty logical. If humans have been evolving for millions of years to adapt to what we have now why can't they continue to evolve to whatever comes up.

Presuming of course that the changes are gradual like a hotting up of the planet etc. why can't humans just keep on evolving to adapt.

If it has to be in another solar system whatever the climate may be the same applies.

.After all, we are pretty clever, climbing out of that primeval slime to driving round in corvettes and flying to the moon. We can do anything can't we ?
ocalhoun
slagar100 wrote:
A meteor can't destroy humanity

Well, actually, as it stands now, a big enough one could.
The likelihood is quite low, but a previously undiscovered, enormous meteor could fall tomorrow, cracking the earth wide open and leaving nothing but single-celled organisms alive... at best.
... Not likely, but perfectly plausible. One of the little planetoids out beyond Pluto could probably do it, if one happened to have the wrong orbit, or perhaps got flung into the inner solar system by some other collision or near-collision.
manfer
In the way we are leaving our modern lifes without the minor respect for the earth maybe sooner than later the earth turns into a not human life viable planet as well as not viable for a lot of other species.

Maybe there is no need of any catastrophe like a huge tsunami, a huge volcan eruption -yellowstone is said to be a candidate-, a meteor, ..., to lead humanity to stinction.
enilsoncba
Another problem is that we ought to have a prototype. Mistakes are known to be made with new technologies, and I would much rather practice on another planet, even if it were a poor choice for our final dwelling place, than bet everything on being able to do it right the first time on the Earth.

That said, it might still make sense to plan an improved Earth environment, provided relatively small steps were taken and the results carefully monitored for problems. I think that approach would differ radically from the terraforming method, however.
fouadCh
MGC77 wrote:
Do you think humans will become extinct sometime? This question is debatable, since humans are different from other species in that they can improve the life expectancies and survival rates of individuals.

Taking this into account do you believe humans could potentially not become extinct if they can control the factors that lead to their extinction?
Assuming that Humans can control all the potential factors that may lead to his demise is a false premise... because simply WE CAN'T... Everything in the Universe has an end .. and we live within that Universe... I only hope that we don't precipitate things with our well-known recklessness ...

MGC77 wrote:
If you do think that humans will become extinct sometime, when do you extimate this would happen? Thousands, millions of years?
That's the billion (?) dollars question !... and if you have any plausible date, please let us know..

MGC77 wrote:
Thanks for you input!
You're Welcome :-)
SonLight
Humanity need never become extinct, unless they do themselves in. There may be some small probability that natural disasters could cause human extinction in the reasonably near future (say 10000 years or so), or that the universe is 'booby trapped' so that there is no logical possibility of escaping some fate like heat death, collapsing universe, etc.

Whether humanity survives a long time is mostly up to humans. We can destroy our civilization with our present knowledge. Whether we could ever be the direct cause of our extinction I do not know, but remember that in 1930 no one would have dreamed we would have the power to quickly destroy our civilization within a few decades.

Assuming we don't blow ourselves up, and that we continue to improve our technology, we should have self-supporting colonies throughout the solar system within three or four hundred years. At that point we could survive destruction of the Earth, and probably rebuild to a higher civilization within a few thousand years. With a few thousand years of development, we should become scattered over an area of at least a few hundred light years. Any future dangers that could wipe all of us out at the same time should be anticipated with many thousands of years warning, at which time we would be essentially invulnerable to extinction unless we are insane. There is good evidence that we could be considered to be insane as a species at present, so the odds on actual future survival may or may not be high.

Even if we bomb ourselves back to the so-called "stone age" a few times, we will have the opportunity to recover. If we eventually grow up morally and emotionally as a species -- a big if -- we should be able to survive forever.
nickfyoung
SonLight wrote:
Humanity need never become extinct, unless they do themselves in. There may be some small probability that natural disasters could cause human extinction in the reasonably near future (say 10000 years or so), or that the universe is 'booby trapped' so that there is no logical possibility of escaping some fate like heat death, collapsing universe, etc.

Whether humanity survives a long time is mostly up to humans. We can destroy our civilization with our present knowledge. Whether we could ever be the direct cause of our extinction I do not know, but remember that in 1930 no one would have dreamed we would have the power to quickly destroy our civilization within a few decades.

Assuming we don't blow ourselves up, and that we continue to improve our technology, we should have self-supporting colonies throughout the solar system within three or four hundred years. At that point we could survive destruction of the Earth, and probably rebuild to a higher civilization within a few thousand years. With a few thousand years of development, we should become scattered over an area of at least a few hundred light years. Any future dangers that could wipe all of us out at the same time should be anticipated with many thousands of years warning, at which time we would be essentially invulnerable to extinction unless we are insane. There is good evidence that we could be considered to be insane as a species at present, so the odds on actual future survival may or may not be high.

Even if we bomb ourselves back to the so-called "stone age" a few times, we will have the opportunity to recover. If we eventually grow up morally and emotionally as a species -- a big if -- we should be able to survive forever.



Often look at a place like Australia and realize just what can be accomplished in 200 years. From absolute nothing, the aboriginals had not built anything, to a thriving country with cities and highways and airports and all that makes up modern society.

One only has to drive out to the red center to see what it was like, just nothing. Miles and miles of red sand with camels. There is a point in question, camels were introduce to Australia as freight carriers over the dessert and now there are highways and trucks the camels were let go. In less than 200 hundred years they have reached plague proportions and are becoming a nuisance and there are talks to start culling them. Estimates are over a million of them. Want a free camel, come and help yourself or a free horse, they run wild too. Camels have been known to damage air conditioning units on remote houses looking for water and have been inside houses and smashed the toilet bowel having a drink.


Anyway, the point I am making, albeit longwindedly sorry, is that man kind can accomplish much in a short time if he needs to rebuild after a disaster threatening extinction.
likeabreeze
Human beings will definitely be distinct one day.
Considering the global warming, worst environment than ever...
nickfyoung
likeabreeze wrote:
Human beings will definitely be distinct one day.
Considering the global warming, worst environment than ever...



If global warming is correct........
Ankhanu
nickfyoung wrote:
likeabreeze wrote:
Human beings will definitely be distinct one day.
Considering the global warming, worst environment than ever...



If global warming is correct........

The term is "climate change", as regional effects differ; while most regions (and global averages) are warming, some areas are actually cooling. And it is real. If you have good, supported reasons for denying it, do contribute to one of the threads on the subject.

That said, I don't think the current climate change issue will directly result in the species going extinct, though it may very well put pressure on us, reducing population somewhat, as weather patterns and geographic features change, altering our agricultural landscapes and regions. It very well may be that our most fertile, productive lands will no longer have the weather to support productive agriculture, and the regions that have the right weather patterns will have unproductive soils. Add in changes to extreme weather patterns, and we may see some dips in the population.
darthrevan
I think yes and no.

The yes part is because we now rely on technology and modern living.
The no part is for the people in the past that had to live in a non modern world and had to hunt and learn to live without the things we have now.
Ankhanu
darthrevan wrote:
I think yes and no.

The yes part is because we now rely on technology and modern living.
The no part is for the people in the past that had to live in a non modern world and had to hunt and learn to live without the things we have now.

Many populations still live without modern technology, whether it be hunting & gathering, primitive agriculture, polycultural agriculture, or permaculture, and many more advanced with more modern technologies that don't utilize electricity, for example. We don't have to look to the past to see humans living a more "natural" life, just to different cultures. You're right, though, that those of us living on more "privileged" cultures would have a lot of learning to do to survive without our toys.
darthrevan
Ankhanu wrote:

Many populations still live without modern technology, whether it be hunting & gathering, primitive agriculture, polycultural agriculture, or permaculture, and many more advanced with more modern technologies that don't utilize electricity, for example. We don't have to look to the past to see humans living a more "natural" life, just to different cultures. You're right, though, that those of us living on more "privileged" cultures would have a lot of learning to do to survive without our toys.


We could go to a Amish land and learn from them, and no I am not making fun of them. Actually I am respectful to them. They chose to live a more natural life and maybe in the end more fulfilling.
nickfyoung
Didn't Iceland once be a grassy land ideal for grazing cattle. As agricultural lands become unproductive because of climates changing others will open up to replace them.
Ankhanu
nickfyoung wrote:
Didn't Iceland once be a grassy land ideal for grazing cattle. As agricultural lands become unproductive because of climates changing others will open up to replace them.

Regions will... but will they be fertile and productive soils??
Soil that is currently tundra, and may become fantastic temperature/rainfall wise would be terrible soil for growing.
nickfyoung
Ankhanu wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:
Didn't Iceland once be a grassy land ideal for grazing cattle. As agricultural lands become unproductive because of climates changing others will open up to replace them.

Regions will... but will they be fertile and productive soils??
Soil that is currently tundra, and may become fantastic temperature/rainfall wise would be terrible soil for growing.




I always reckon that can be fixed if governments care enough. Experiments have been done with huge inland canals dug into dessert. The sea water in those canals has been used to farm fish and the banks have been planted with salt water tolerant trees which are cut for fire wood and whole communities have sprung up on the banks of these canals.

I reckon they could dig such canals into the center of Australia, they dug the Suez canal. and fill the middle of Australia with a huge sea water lake. Fish farms, salt production etc would support communities and make the land viable. Not to mention resorts and tourism.

The same has been done with huge green houses which are self sufficient in water and veggie production on desserts. They actually produce enough water to produce a tree line behind the green houses.
ocalhoun
nickfyoung wrote:

I reckon they could dig such canals into the center of Australia, they dug the Suez canal.

I think you have two very different scales of projects there.

...Like saying, we sent a man to the moon, so sending a man to Neptune should be no problem, right?
nickfyoung
ocalhoun wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:

I reckon they could dig such canals into the center of Australia, they dug the Suez canal.

I think you have two very different scales of projects there.

...Like saying, we sent a man to the moon, so sending a man to Neptune should be no problem, right?


Yes but we are talking a fair time span too which means better technology and modern machines.

My Dad worked on the first hydro electric scheme and dam site in Tasmania back in 1949. Those days they built it all with man power and picks and shovels.

Brisbane has just built several tunnels for traffic under the city. They just buy a huge tunnel machine and when it is done the machine is left there and buried fore ever.

The Suez canal was started in 1859 and took 10 years using some 1.5 million people.
It started off at 164 km long and 8 m deep.

Be a piece of cake to build several into the center of Australia now.
Bikerman
I think the Aboriginals might have some objections to flooding huge areas of their tribal lands...
I suppose you could stick to the southern part of the big red, I don't think there is as much reservation land there...
(I've travelled across Australia with a good ozzie mate of mine - we drove Darwin to Adelaide, thence to Melbourne, Sydney and finished in Canberra - that was some road-trip Smile
nickfyoung
Bikerman wrote:
I think the Aboriginals might have some objections to flooding huge areas of their tribal lands...
I suppose you could stick to the southern part of the big red, I don't think there is as much reservation land there...
(I've travelled across Australia with a good ozzie mate of mine - we drove Darwin to Adelaide, thence to Melbourne, Sydney and finished in Canberra - that was some road-trip Smile


Big trip. I have done Brisbane to the rock and back, that was far enough.

Doesn't matter much now where you go, the Aboriginals are slowly taking all of Australia back with land title claims. They have one out on Sydney too.
Bikerman
Well, it WAS their land first, and I'm sure their claims are not THAT extensive, having visited a couple of them (my ozzie pal - Grant - is an audiologist and he gets to go into the reservations to work with the kids).
Ankhanu
I figuratively weep at the thought of the ecological destruction such a project would entail... especially in such an unique ecosystem as in those Australian lands you'd like to flood. Yikes.

There are other aspects that affect the arability of land than just water availability. Soil quality is a major issue, whether one simply talks about the texture, or one also expands out into nutrient load/retention, soil depth, and other factors. Ten centimeters of sand over bedrock is NEVER going to produce like 3 meters of alluvial loam over a sandy loam base... Soils differ, and they are most certainly not equal in terms of arability; these differences influenced a lot of early human history post-agriculture... and they may well influence human survival and history in the future, especially if the transportation systems we rely on today to bring food to us from good arable land around the globe collapse.

Let's not forget that inland seas like that are highly prone to pollution, salination an dying due to excessive nutrient loads... it's certainly not without precedent in recent history (See California's Salton Sea area, and other examples).
nickfyoung
Bikerman wrote:
Well, it WAS their land first, and I'm sure their claims are not THAT extensive, having visited a couple of them (my ozzie pal - Grant - is an audiologist and he gets to go into the reservations to work with the kids).



Yes, I used to work on one and saw things first hand.

As a side, on the news last night one particular study in one particular community, found that 99% of all kids were sexually active by age 10, either with each other or by older kids or by abuse. Is that sad or what.


But they do have extensive land claims in the offing and one gets granted every now and then.
Like I said before, they were here first, some thousands of years but there is no buildings or farms/cultivation to show for it.

Our first day on the job at the rock we had to take an early morning tour with an Aboriginal guide. He was showing us a cave where they used to live and with no clothes those days. As it was freezing cold a lady asked how they survived without clothes.
He replied, through an interpreter that they would stay in the cave by the fire until 11am til it was warm enough to go outside.
nickfyoung
Ankhanu wrote:
I figuratively weep at the thought of the ecological destruction such a project would entail... especially in such an unique ecosystem as in those Australian lands you'd like to flood. Yikes.

There are other aspects that affect the arability of land than just water availability. Soil quality is a major issue, whether one simply talks about the texture, or one also expands out into nutrient load/retention, soil depth, and other factors. Ten centimeters of sand over bedrock is NEVER going to produce like 3 meters of alluvial loam over a sandy loam base... Soils differ, and they are most certainly not equal in terms of arability; these differences influenced a lot of early human history post-agriculture... and they may well influence human survival and history in the future, especially if the transportation systems we rely on today to bring food to us from good arable land around the globe collapse.

Let's not forget that inland seas like that are highly prone to pollution, salination an dying due to excessive nutrient loads... it's certainly not without precedent in recent history (See California's Salton Sea area, and other examples).



The desert system I read about was mostly a canal system and created sustainability through salt water fish and crab farming. Salt resistant trees grew along the banks which were used for firewood.

I spent 7 days driving back from the rock. Mostly days of just nothing. Mile after mile of red sand. It seems a shame that it can't be utilized for something.
Ankhanu
nickfyoung wrote:
I spent 7 days driving back from the rock. Mostly days of just nothing. Mile after mile of red sand. It seems a shame that it can't be utilized for something.

You saw nothing, but there is a fragile ecosystem out there. It might be low productivity, but it's there, and it would be a shame to destroy it.
It's an extreme environment; only those species that have evolved mechanisms to exist in those environments are present... and they're usually holding on fairly tenuously. Any more extreme, and the organisms die, less extreme and other species move in with competitive advantage in the less extreme environments, edging them out or extirpating them... Extremophiles don't tend to thrive where their specialized adaptations are no longer giving them advantage, they get overtaken by more generalized species.
nickfyoung
Ankhanu wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:
I spent 7 days driving back from the rock. Mostly days of just nothing. Mile after mile of red sand. It seems a shame that it can't be utilized for something.

You saw nothing, but there is a fragile ecosystem out there. It might be low productivity, but it's there, and it would be a shame to destroy it.
It's an extreme environment; only those species that have evolved mechanisms to exist in those environments are present... and they're usually holding on fairly tenuously. Any more extreme, and the organisms die, less extreme and other species move in with competitive advantage in the less extreme environments, edging them out or extirpating them... Extremophiles don't tend to thrive where their specialized adaptations are no longer giving them advantage, they get overtaken by more generalized species.



Yes there is a display behind glass at the resort. Most life is underground out of the heat. Scorpions and snakes and all nice stuff.

Incidentally. the center of Australia has the artisian basin utilized by many for a water supply. I guess that could be upset too.
Ankhanu
nickfyoung wrote:
Yes there is a display behind glass at the resort. Most life is underground out of the heat. Scorpions and snakes and all nice stuff.

Yup Smile
And the ways they've developed to survive in the habitat are astounding... the ways that the species are interconnected are utterly beautiful (as are the species themselves) Smile

nickfyoung wrote:
Incidentally. the center of Australia has the artisian basin utilized by many for a water supply. I guess that could be upset too.

Certainly, particularly if its in the same watershed as the development.


Any "development" we make of land fundamentally changes the ecosystem, literally from the ground up. Those changes have impacts, some of which we can anticipate, some of which we can't. Our history has been one of not recognizing the potential impacts and/or ignoring them, and we've ****** a lot of shit up (if you'll excuse the filtered language). In the end, if we were desperate enough, and still had access to the energy sources needed to undertake such a process, other lifeforms will be damned, cast aside such that we might exploit another resource and continue surviving. Many species leave a wake of destruction in their paths (primates are quite adept at it in general), and we're no different in that regard, I suppose... only difference is the scale of destruction we wreak.
nickfyoung
Ankhanu wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:
Yes there is a display behind glass at the resort. Most life is underground out of the heat. Scorpions and snakes and all nice stuff.

Yup Smile
And the ways they've developed to survive in the habitat are astounding... the ways that the species are interconnected are utterly beautiful (as are the species themselves) Smile

nickfyoung wrote:
Incidentally. the center of Australia has the artisian basin utilized by many for a water supply. I guess that could be upset too.

Certainly, particularly if its in the same watershed as the development.


Any "development" we make of land fundamentally changes the ecosystem, literally from the ground up. Those changes have impacts, some of which we can anticipate, some of which we can't. Our history has been one of not recognizing the potential impacts and/or ignoring them, and we've ****** a lot of shit up (if you'll excuse the filtered language). In the end, if we were desperate enough, and still had access to the energy sources needed to undertake such a process, other lifeforms will be damned, cast aside such that we might exploit another resource and continue surviving. Many species leave a wake of destruction in their paths (primates are quite adept at it in general), and we're no different in that regard, I suppose... only difference is the scale of destruction we wreak.



Just seems a shame that all that land can't be utilized for something. When you fly over it you can see how vast it is. Yet, in the big wets it is under water and teeming with bird life.
Often thought why couldn't some big high structures be built in a line representing a mountain range to encourage more rain to stop by or is that in the realm of fantasy again.

We have thousands of boat people arriving every month now and lots more in the ques but all they want to do is move to the big cities. We can't get doctors and teaches to work in the country because country is too far away.
Ankhanu
Remember, we're not the only species on the planet... other species have as much right to survive as we do. Remember, any undisturbed habitat you look at IS utilized for something; sustaining life.

Part of the problem with the artificial mountain range idea to encourage rain is that it can't work Razz The air is already dry by the time it gets there... you can stick whatever structures you want into the air, there's still not going to be any water in it; its already been deposited near the coast, whether along the eastern mountain range (and spilling into the central basin) or the rise to the western table lands. Once it's gone, it's gone.

I actually read a fair bit about the difficulties of Australian (and New Zealand) agriculture (primarily pasturing) in my Masters studies, as there have been a number of biodiversity studies conducted there in efforts to improve agricultural quality, productivity and sustainability. It's not an easy continent to work with, it doesn't have a lot going for it in terms or arability.
ocalhoun
Or maybe... just maybe... we could reduce the human population on earth* to a sustainable level, and then we wouldn't have to turn the whole planet into a factory farm in order to support our numbers.



(But if you insist on grandiose geological engineering to create more bio-production ability, how about this for a better alternative: artificial coral reefs. Identify areas of the ocean where piling dirt, rocks, and scrap would create good conditions for coral reefs, seed them, and wait.
That way, you can create high-productivity areas (hopefully) without disturbing any ecosystems that are too rare or sensitive.)
...or just encourage global warming and enjoy your new ability to grow temperate plants in northern Canada and Siberia... whichever.

*Note the important caveat 'on earth'. If you'd like to spread them to orbital stations, the moon, or other planets, you could conceivably keep increasing human population indefinitely... but as long as we're confined to one planet, the more of us there are, the more the rest of the biosphere (and eventually us too) will suffer.
LxGoodies
OP wrote:
Do you think humans will become extinct sometime?

I don't believe that, nope.. We know about genetic engineering, cloning.. Suppose some giant impact would be happening in a few years so all life on earth would get destroyed.. man can send some space ship up to save the species, even large part of the genome of a population could be saved. It would land later (on earth, when the dust and fires have settled down), land somewhere else, go for a moon base, etc. A few hundredth people will do, human kind will be saved.

Lx
SonLight
I said before that I didn't think humanity would be extinct soon -- but I just got new information!

http://beetlebailey.com/comics/november-25-2005/
ocalhoun
LxGoodies wrote:
OP wrote:
Do you think humans will become extinct sometime?

I don't believe that, nope.. We know about genetic engineering, cloning..

If we genetically engineer ourselves, humans will become extinct, replaced by the non-humans.
Quote:
Suppose some giant impact would be happening in a few years so all life on earth would get destroyed.. man can send some space ship up to save the species, even large part of the genome of a population could be saved. It would land later (on earth, when the dust and fires have settled down), land somewhere else, go for a moon base, etc. A few hundredth people will do, human kind will be saved.

It's quite unlikely that we would see it coming far enough in advance to build a big enough spaceship.
(It would take years to build a ship like that (a self-sufficeint ship with enough life support for hundreds of people long-term? It would be HUGE! -- comparing it to today's spaceships would be like comparing a canoe and a cruise liner.)... and an impact might only be noticed days before it happens.)
No, if a world-ending impact is coming in the very near future, it very well could cause human extinction.
LxGoodies
ocalhoun wrote:
LxGoodies wrote:
OP wrote:
Do you think humans will become extinct sometime?

I don't believe that, nope.. We know about genetic engineering, cloning..

Quote:
Suppose some giant impact would be happening in a few years so all life on earth would get destroyed.. man can send some space ship up to save the species, even large part of the genome of a population could be saved. It would land later (on earth, when the dust and fires have settled down), land somewhere else, go for a moon base, etc. A few hundredth people will do, human kind will be saved.

It's quite unlikely that we would see it coming far enough in advance to build a big enough spaceship.
(It would take years to build a ship like that (a self-sufficeint ship with enough life support for hundreds of people long-term? It would be HUGE! -- comparing it to today's spaceships would be like comparing a canoe and a cruise liner.)... and an impact might only be noticed days before it happens.)
No, if a world-ending impact is coming in the very near future, it very well could cause human extinction.


Quote:
If we genetically engineer ourselves, humans will become extinct, replaced by the non-humans.

Why require a change.. I'm talking about avoiding "extinction events".. regardless of any predictions about actual events, you could, somewhere on earth, very deep in the crust, prepare a landing place and a food stock for +/- 20 years, enough to keep 200-300 people alive a few years.

Also, irrespective of any predictions, send a spaceship in orbit around the sun.. programmed to stay there for about 600 years.. it contains our genome, male and female, some 20-30 strains.. and when the time arrives you dare to put the space ship back on planet earth, 60 years in advance you merge the male and female genome to procreate, resulting e.g. in 10-20 clones of 20 different strains. The only rule there is: humans from the same strain may not generate offspring. I think the human race could survive.. fully automatic procedure, current technology, no problem.

Of course it is expensive and nations must realise an EEv could happen.. and be ready for it. It can be launched far before the event would (ever) be predicted. When the event takes place.. you just press a button.. a signal is sent to the "colony ship" to start the timer.

Smile Lx
zaxacongrejo
hi in less than 100 years if we keep acting like a plague to the planet
and the results of our behavior will result in mass extintion not only ours but all or almost all planet species

im my opinion overpopulation will be the triger



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation
Quote:
"Overpopulation is a generally undesirable condition where an organism's numbers exceed the carrying capacity of its habitat. The term often refers to the relationship between the human population and its environment, the Earth,or smaller geographical areas such as countries. Overpopulation can result from an increase in births, a decline in mortality rates, an increase in immigration, or an unsustainable biome and depletion of resources. It is possible for very sparsely populated areas to be overpopulated if the area has a meager or non-existent capability to sustain life (e.g. a desert).

The population has been growing continuously since the end of the Black Death, around the year 1400,although the most significant increase has been in the last 50 years, mainly due to medical advancements and increases in agricultural productivity. Although the rate of population growth has been declining since the 1980s, the United Nations has expressed concern on continued excessive population growth in sub-Saharan Africa. As of November 16, 2012 the world human population is estimated to be 7.052 billion by the United States Census Bureau, and over 7 billion by the United Nations. Most estimates for the carrying capacity of the Earth are between 4 billion and 16 billion. Depending on which estimate is used, human overpopulation may or may not have already occurred. Nevertheless, the rapid recent increase in human population is causing some concern. The population is expected to reach between 8 and 10.5 billion between the year 2040 and 2050. In May 2011, the United Nations increased the medium variant projections to 9.3 billion for 2050 and 10.1 billion for 2100.

The recent rapid increase in human population over the past three centuries has raised concerns that the planet may not be able to sustain present or larger numbers of inhabitants. Steve Jones, head of the biology department at University College London, has said, "Humans are 10,000 times more common than we should be". The InterAcademy Panel Statement on Population Growth has stated that many environmental problems, such as rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, global warming, and pollution, are aggravated by the population expansion. Other problems associated with overpopulation include the increased demand for resources such as fresh water and food, starvation and malnutrition, consumption of natural resources faster than the rate of regeneration (such as fossil fuels), and a decrease in living conditions. However, some believe that waste and over-consumption, especially by wealthy nations, is putting more strain on the environment than overpopulation.

Limiting birth rates through legal regulations, educating people about family planning, increasing access to birth control and contraception, and extraterrestrial settlement have been suggested as ways to mitigate overpopulation in the future. China and other nations already have regulations limiting the birth rate, with China using a "one child per family" policy. Contraception is a response to the fact that nearly 40% of pregnancies are unintended and that in the poorest regions mothers often lack information and the means to control the size of their families."

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firstroad
i am pretty dure we are going to have really tough times in the future but if we manage to beat em we are not going to extinct... fotr example... it is said that may sun go down, if we manage to getr to another solar system only a few will die but if we don't we may extinct
zaxacongrejo
Quote:
it is said that may sun go down


when happen no one still alive to see anymore
LxGoodies
WTF.. Shocked

arial wrote:
attitudes
apathy
you lazy bastards
disgusted
we deserve it
ride on the coat tails

Suppose you're pretty superior yourself pal.. lots of people are considering the possibility that the human species might get extinct one day, e.g. by its own wrong-doing ? Now I don't believe in that (you don't quote me) but you tend to pull this topic into the negative, by assigning lazyness and ignorance to members of this forum that tend to agree. Accusing people is too easy ! The human species DOES represent a danger to the earth environment.. Nature CAN come up with certain disastrous events that would require us (or our genome) to evacuate the planet. In my view, it is essential that we improve the environmental situation, it is essential that we develop means to escape, when a true Niburu comes our way some day. Maybe we even need to send a human backup genome to some exoplanet, in case sudden events would jeopardize the entire ecosystem. For all of these, we do have the technical means. So I don't believe that extinction can happen, we already have ways to avoid it... we do have to prepare for it, indeed. But it's no use to blame passive humans and go sit down whining beforehand about our beautiful world going down because of them ! There is work to do, we agree about that. However, I don't believe that humans are too lazy, or too ignorant to do anything. It's just beyond our scope of reality currently. Result: irony, sarcasm.

The feeling of not being able to do anything about it, even looking forward to it because of the spectacle, explains the "wait and awe" type of replies here. But is that really lazyness or wishing the world to go down ? Do you have the magic bullet ? If you have.. please share it. Else.. stop complaining about your fellow men.

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/38985.html

Lx
ZeytinGrafik
it'll happen eventully. I think that our luck will run out somehow and we will be crushed by a meteor or a similar object. May not be in the near future but it'll happen someday.
codegeek
The fact that we have not been visited by extraterrestrial intelligent life forms despite the great statistical possibility of there being millions of such life forms in the universe suggests that all intelligent life destroys itself eventually.
jsk02a
http://www.mars-one.com

This is the tip of the spear insofar as preserving humanity and leaving this rock that will eventually die.

One way ticket to Mars!
LxGoodies
Hmm I think Mars could use some "terraformation" before we can live there in large numbers.

In my view human kind should

- carefully choose WHERE we want to be on Mars

- introduce more oxygen and nitrogen in the atmosphere of Mars

- establish a durable O2-CO2 cycle by introducing vegetation

- meanwhile, build a large underground base
- ability to produce water
- ability to grow food
- facilitating children (schools)
(.....)

I agree it is VERY important to look at our next door neighbour planet as target for colonization, but the 2023 expedition will still be (very) limited to scientific research. It is no true colony yet !

Lx
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