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JaneLane
If Athiesm Is:

1. The Doctrine Or Belief That There Is No God.
2. Disbelief In The Existence Of A Supreme Being Or Beings.


Is That The Same As Believing In Nothing At All?
liljp617
It's the lack of belief in god(s), not the belief that there is/are no god(s). Pretty much sums the word up completely.

Believing in nothing at all? I'm not sure what you mean. If you lack belief in a god(s), you're an atheist. That's the only thing the word 'atheist' stands for. I'm not sure how to break it down any further. I'm sure the brains of this forum can though Smile

Last edited by liljp617 on Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Indi
JaneLane wrote:
If Athiesm Is:

1. The Doctrine Or Belief That There Is No God.
2. Disbelief In The Existence Of A Supreme Being Or Beings.


Is That The Same As Believing In Nothing At All?

Atheism is neither of those things, unless you are literally talking about "Atheism" (big "A") and not "atheism" (little "a"). Atheism (big "A") is a philosophical doctrine - it is taking the position that no gods exist. Atheism (little "a") is just the negation of theism (the belief in a god or gods). When people talk about atheism, they almost always mean atheism (little "a"), not Atheism (big "A"), because most people aren't philosophers talking about theology, they're just people talking about what people believe. Or, to put it another way, Atheism (big "A") is a technical term used by specialists in certain situations, while atheism (little "a") is the general term used by everyone else in every other situation. Chances are pretty good that you will never be in a situation where you mean Atheism (big "A"), and not atheism (little "a").

Atheism (big "A") is the philosophical doctrine that there are no gods or gods, and forms the basis for a bunch of philosophical positions about metaphysics, etc.

Atheism (little "a") is just "lacking belief in a god or gods".

So the answer to your question depends on whether you mean Atheism or atheism.

If you mean Atheism: then no, definitely not. In Atheism, you are taking a definite stance - you definitely believe something - and in fact many things that follow from the fact that there are no gods.

If you mean atheism: then maybe. The only thing you can say for sure is that they don't have the belief that gods exist - they may have lots of beliefs (faeries, UFOs, ghosts), just not that one.
Klaw 2
JaneLane wrote:
If Athiesm Is:

1. The Doctrine Or Belief That There Is No God.
2. Disbelief In The Existence Of A Supreme Being Or Beings.

Is That The Same As Believing In Nothing At All?

It's not the same thing as believing in other things you canstill believe in santa and don't believe in any god.

And you can also believe in other things like beaty etc.

The most commen atheism is lack of belief in gods.
But indi already pointed that out.
JaneLane
Indi wrote:
JaneLane wrote:
If Athiesm Is:

1. The Doctrine Or Belief That There Is No God.
2. Disbelief In The Existence Of A Supreme Being Or Beings.


Is That The Same As Believing In Nothing At All?

Atheism is neither of those things, unless you are literally talking about "Atheism" (big "A") and not "atheism" (little "a"). Atheism (big "A") is a philosophical doctrine - it is taking the position that no gods exist. Atheism (little "a") is just the negation of theism (the belief in a god or gods). When people talk about atheism, they almost always mean atheism (little "a"), not Atheism (big "A"), because most people aren't philosophers talking about theology, they're just people talking about what people believe. Or, to put it another way, Atheism (big "A") is a technical term used by specialists in certain situations, while atheism (little "a") is the general term used by everyone else in every other situation. Chances are pretty good that you will never be in a situation where you mean Atheism (big "A"), and not atheism (little "a").

Atheism (big "A") is the philosophical doctrine that there are no gods or gods, and forms the basis for a bunch of philosophical positions about metaphysics, etc.

Atheism (little "a") is just "lacking belief in a god or gods".

So the answer to your question depends on whether you mean Atheism or atheism.

If you mean Atheism: then no, definitely not. In Atheism, you are taking a definite stance - you definitely believe something - and in fact many things that follow from the fact that there are no gods.

If you mean atheism: then maybe. The only thing you can say for sure is that they don't have the belief that gods exist - they may have lots of beliefs (faeries, UFOs, ghosts), just not that one.


Whats The Difference Between A and a
Bikerman
JaneLane wrote:
Whats The Difference Between A and a

1. Do you believe that 'exangriant rentiflication'* exists?
2. Do you positively state that 'exangriant rentiflication' does not exist?

Now, substitute God for 'exangriant rentiflication'. If the answer to 1 is not yes then you are an atheist. If the answer to 2 is yes then you are an Atheist (strong atheist).
That's the difference

* don't bother looking it up - only I know what it really means since I have coined the phrase - just as only you can really know what you mean by 'God'.

Last edited by Bikerman on Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
twin_sound
yes
Indi
Bikerman wrote:
JaneLane wrote:
Whats The Difference Between A and a

1. Do you believe that 'exangriant rentiflication'* exists?
2. Do you positively state that 'exangriant rentiflication' does not exist?

Now, substitute God for 'exangriant rentiflication'. If the answer to 1 is not yes then you are an atheist. If the answer to 2 is yes then you are an Atheist (strong atheist).
That's the difference

* don't bother looking it up - only I know what it really means since I have coined the phrase - just as only you can really know what you mean by 'God'.

^_^;

More than just that, Atheism (big A) is a philosophical position about the nature of the universe - that no gods are involved in any part of it, any how, any way. You start with the statement "there are no gods", and you build up an entire body of thought that agrees with that claim. If you are an Atheist, you know that the universe must have been created without the help of a god. If you are an atheist, you may not know, and you may not care. If you are an Atheist and you have a near death experience, you know that the light at the end of the tunnel cannot be a god - it must be something else (although you may not know what). If you are an atheist, you may not know or care - it may be a god, or it may be a hallucination.

There's a lot more to it as well. If you are an Atheist, you know that whatever justice and right and wrong are, they cannot have anything to do with what any supposed God says. If you are an atheist, you don't have to know, and you don't have to care.

As i said, an Atheist - a philosophical atheist - is a big, complex deal, and there are really not that many of them. They are "strong atheist plus" - people who not only say gods don't exist, but who go on to form an entire understanding of life, the universe and everything that is based on that. They are very rare. You'll probably never meet one.

But atheists are a dime a dozen. They don't necessarily say that gods don't exist - they may just say they don't know or they don't care - but even if they say that they do know that no gods exist, they don't go on from there to base their whole life on that.
JaneLane
Ohhh ok I get it now, thank you very much Very Happy (I'm number 2 btw hehe)
liljp617
Indi,

Are there available sources for what you've written on Atheism vs. atheism? Or is it just general logic from yourself?
Indi
liljp617 wrote:
Indi,

Are there available sources for what you've written on Atheism vs. atheism? Or is it just general logic from yourself?

Hm, good question. i can't think of any source that actually sits down and compares the two like i did, because normally there is little need (i found it rather difficult to do it, too, without writing a ton). The only books that i can think of that even care about philosophical atheism (Atheism) are philosophy texts, and they are not written for the layperson - they don't really bother to sit down and explain such things. Popular books that deal with atheism don't deal with philosophy, so they don't bother to talk about philosophical atheist schools of thought. Hell, i never would have brought up philosophical atheism at all except that i couldn't tell what JaneLane meant because of the non-standard capitalization, and i did not know where that definition that was quoted came from - it may have been a philosophy text for all i knew.

If you're not interested in a comparison of the two, and you just want to read up on each separately: you can find pages on vanilla atheism all over the Internet, but if you want to read up on philosophical atheism, you need to get some philosophical text books. Books that cover metaphysics and/or moral philosophy - especially the former - should touch on it if you can't find a book on it specifically. In my experience, most university professors of philosophy are quite vocal about the topic during lectures, if you can manage to catch one of them. If you want to try to search the net, a search for "Atheism" won't help much, and neither will "philosophical atheism" (because philosophers don't need to - if they're talking philosophy, it is enough to say "atheism" almost all of the time). i'd recommend searching for incidental terms, like "materialism", "monism", "Hobbes"... and i can't think of any others that spring to mind. Careful, though - there's a lot of bullshit on the net published under the heading of "philosophy".
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