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Can i be accused ?





FriBogdan
Hm... supposing that i will make an app that basically steals somebody conversation archives, creates a .rar file with the collected data and than sends it trough e-mail without the victims knowledge.

So the data is not very important... but now i'm thinking maybe some other people need this program, maybe they too want to find out some secrets Razz... and maybe i want to release for free this soft.

Remember that it "steals" data ... so i, as a creator, can be accused by some officials because other people used my app ? Can this app be considered a malware ?
deanhills
I would say this is hacking and hacking is considered a crime. The software is malware. Being used to steal data. Selling this malware to other people is selling hacking software. Obviously the author of this malicious software is guilty of a crime. Anyone who uses the malware to steal information, whether the author or the people who purchased the malware from the author, would be guilty of hacking and hence a crime. If the individual who purchased the malware is charged, I would imagine the author of the malware would also be charged by implication, but the author would be charged for a different crime, perhaps selling malicious software with the full knowledge that it will be used by those that it is sold to for the purpose of hacking.

From the little that I have checked up on the Web (I am no expert) it would appear that the punishment for the crime would vary according to the value of the damage incurred by the stolen data. If this software can be linked back to the author, perhaps everyone could be charged together? Would probably need to be very carefully investigated.
djclue917
You might be considered as an accomplice to the crime [of data theft]. That is, if you didn't have any direct participation to the said act. This is just a hunch and I'm not really sure about it because I'm not a lawyer. But anyway, common sense would tell you that anything having to do with stealing is not good. It's just isn't and will never be.
FriBogdan
First i'm NOT talking about selling this thing (generated by the free information available in the www and some basic coding skill). Second... the purpose is not to steal important data (at least not mine). Yeah... it is probably not a good idea to put something like that on the internet Smile).

And btw... i don't think it is possible to find the author. Of course you can log the ip's and see from where the program came... if you upload a code like this on a website. But this is where the logs stop. If you use the p2p network detection is almost 0.
Bondings
I wouldn't do this, way too risky. It of course depends on the country you are living in and the popularity of the tool.

In Belgium (and probably in a lot of other countries) this would most likely be regarded as providing tools that are mostly oriented and advertised towards (illegal) hacking. And there are severe sanctions for this including prison time, if I'm not mistaken.
KronikSindrome
I dunno about ilegal but if I caught ya doin it
I'd wanna kick yer arse. So you might want to
re-think getting your jollies off on invading other
people's privacy.

not very nice ya know
airh3ad
you will be accused if you break the law, in your part its not a piracy but its just like copywrite infregment i think.
erlendhg
A far as I know, this sounds like it will be considered spyware.
Isn't that exactly what spyware does (in a way), collecting information and send it on?

To me (at least since I live in Norway), it sounds way too risky. I wouldn't take the chance.
apple
I see you getting into serious legal problems with that. can you spell J A I L ?
ocalhoun
You could probably worm your way out of any legal problems IF you found a legitimate use for your software.

Market it to law enforcement and the government?
Instead of being a sneaky villain, you'll be a terrorist fighting hero. (Or at least you could present your case that way in a trial...)
standready
Destory it NOW!!! Save yourself!
FriBogdan
standready wrote:
Destory it NOW!!! Save yourself!


Oh Smile) c'mon

You can't find a legal use of a software that takes data without your knowing about and sends it away Razz. There are few people in this country (Romania) that will report that they have a "spy" in their PC. I don't think that in other countries the situation is different. The companies will probably do something about it... like hire people to keep their computers free of troubles. BUT the average user, if he can't manage the problem, will re-install windows or something like that.

Almost all of you took this to far. This is not a virus that damages the computers, steals bank accounts and does damages that reach the sky.... Neutral . In that case the authorities will take measures, like pretend that they search for the source (in fact some companies are more active in this search than most of the police, government etc...). But if it doesn't harm to much nobody will do anything. It doesn't worth the time spending ...
James_Hicks
Just say you're with the United States Department of Homeland Security or of the TeleCommunication services that help the Department of Homeland Security with eavesdropping. President George W. Bush just revised the FISA Law yesterday preventing anyone from suing them or the TeleCommunication networks for using the Patriot Act to spy on others.

Why should they be the only ones helping to save our country and steal our rights? Just say you thought they were a terrorist and were serving your country because you were given solid evidence that the person in question has ties to a terrorist organization or has weapons of mass destruction. It worked for the Bush Regime.
deanhills
FriBogdan wrote:
But if it doesn't harm to much nobody will do anything. It doesn't worth the time spending ...


How do you define "not too much harm"? Also, if you are going to sell this software "with little harm", to a great number of people, would that not multiply "not too much harm", into a lot of harm?
FriBogdan
I mean that the main idea was to take some conversations. You usually don't give bank account information over IM.... so if you steal only words the victim won't give a sh*t. Maybe it would be a little frustrated or angry.

So by this i mean little harm (or not too much)
deanhills
FriBogdan wrote:
I mean that the main idea was to take some conversations. You usually don't give bank account information over IM.... so if you steal only words the victim won't give a sh*t. Maybe it would be a little frustrated or angry.

So by this i mean little harm (or not too much)


Depends on what those words are? Perhaps between a celebrity and his mistress? Or someone giving inside information on what stocks to buy or sell? A husband checking up on his wife? An unhappy employee checking on what to find out about his boss? Most people online have pseudonyms and they enjoy their privacy. This would be a great invasion of that. People prefer to have their privacy when they are online.

Think it would be difficult to draw the line. Hacking into people's conversations, or stealing their words, what is the difference?
ccube921
one could probably use the app to steal other things, and even if it was just Ims people seriously do say important things on IMs people think its like 100% safe.
raine dragon
FriBogdan wrote:
I mean that the main idea was to take some conversations. You usually don't give bank account information over IM.... so if you steal only words the victim won't give a sh*t. Maybe it would be a little frustrated or angry.

So by this i mean little harm (or not too much)


Recording people without their knowledge is illegal where I live. ^^; I would say that a computer program which records their typing would fall into the same category as a hidden camera in someone's bedroom; it's a serious invasion of privacy.

I mean, think of what could be intercepted? I know of social workers and therapists who let their clients contact them via the internet if they need something right then. I'm 100% sure that a third party, not related to the offical medical or governmental group, recording a conversation like that would be illegal in most places.
friuser
I think it's safe to say in this day and age that privacy is a luxury at best and everything and anything can be recorded or dispersed. Just don't have anything in writing or physical evidence, which includes text message. See enough cop shows like law and order is enough to make me cringe.
andy26
The only safe way of marketing this tool would be to aim it at parents that want to know who there kids are talking to on the internet and other stuff around this such as a wife wanting to know if her husband is cheating or visa-versa. I have created a Key Logger and i plan on selling it one day. My target audience is parents and business to monitor there employees. And as long as the user can only install the software onto the PC by physically been on the PC and not installing it remotely it will cut down on the amount of harm because it wont be just anybody after anything from anybody else it would have to be someone the Computer owner knows and if the owner has given the person who has installed the software consent to use there computer it is there own fault.
zzpeanut
maybe yes.. maybe no... I DONT KNOW Xd Rolling Eyes
LostOverThere
Yes, this would be a breach of privacy and therefore is illegal. I really wouldn't do it.
miacps
FriBogdan wrote:
Hm... supposing that i will make an app that basically steals somebody conversation archives, creates a .rar file with the collected data and than sends it trough e-mail without the victims knowledge.

So the data is not very important... but now i'm thinking maybe some other people need this program, maybe they too want to find out some secrets Razz... and maybe i want to release for free this soft.

Remember that it "steals" data ... so i, as a creator, can be accused by some officials because other people used my app ? Can this app be considered a malware ?


I think the only way you could legally make this app available to the public is if you promote it only as a way to test the security of your own PC. Otherwise you could possibly be charged with several different crimes.

You shouldn't take my word as absolute though, I'm not at all an expert on this kind of thing.

In any case, making an app with the sole purpose of stealing other people's private data available to the public would be illegal and put you at risk.
sulavaryal
as long as the one you are trying to or are already stealing data from does not know you are doing it you are safe.But once you get caught you are going to be in serious trouble. I don't think this is worth anything. I'd suggest you drop the idea for good.
jsarnold
It's a little like the P2P software programmers and distributers.

The software that allows the file sharing is itself not directly committing any crime. It is permitting illegal use, but then the same can be said for a kitchen knife. Manufacturers of kitchen knives cannot be held responsible for illegal use of knives to murder people.

As long as the software can be seen to have a legitimate use, such as security within a company, parental monitoring, etc, then you're clear.

It's only when the software clearly has one, and only one, purpose, which is only ever illegal.
watersoul
I'm guessing it's probably illegal in most countries, and also your chances of getting caught just from uploading it to make available on the net are pretty small.
I would say though I think its a bit sneaky and sly, and if you have the skills to create this perhaps use them for a more noble cause that benefits people instead of a path of deception?
ftv_flung
I don't blame you for wanting to try out something new, but unless you really know what you're doing and whether you want to take the risks, and know the laws etc. it's probably not worth it.

You're basically providing tools to other hackers.

To put it in another situation, you're providing the knife to the murderer...


Try lending it to a trusted friend and see what they think? Instead of releasing it. Not worth the trouble.
j_f_k
What you're actually stealing is neither here nor there - you appear to sound as if you're justifying yourself by implying that the data you are taking (conversation archives) was at some stage public anyway as it was was visible on a chatroom site. If the data you were taking were user ID's and passwords to the users online banking site - then I rather doubt you would be posting here and asking 'is this right or wrong or a crime' - of course it bloody well is (wrong, a crime!).

consider this. If I break into a house and steal someones Rolex watch and their Canon SLR, then clearly I've committed a crime. If, however, i break into a house and only steal the AOL trial disk - which they were about to chuck anyway (if they have half a brain Smile ) then is this still a crime. Of course it is.

I've even done them favour if they were (god forbid) thinking of screwing their pc by actually using the thing, and their certainly not out of pocket as they'll get 10 more of them anyway yet the point is that I'll illegally gained access to their own property without their consent.

You are breaking and entering. a crime.

Malware - software that does something that the user isn't aware of or has authorised - the writing therefore - a crime.
taytay
In one hand, it sound like an interesting program. Like it could be fun to peek in on peoples conversations.

on the other hand, I would beat the snot out of any one that did it to me, and I would do anything within my legal rights to have then legally punished according to law.

I don't have a use for IM's though. And I don't really care what other people might be doing with there time. So I dunno. ^_^
andredesignz
yea you can be its a very high possibility
isranet
its too riskey don't do this
sondosia
Um...DUH? Since when was it legal to STEAL other people's personal information for whatever reason? If I steal your car but don't use it or sell it, won't I still get accused of car theft?
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