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Many US Conspiracies





JTF123
So, I found this site with a full lenght free video telling about many conspiracy therories about the US. I believe mostly everything in the video besides the announcement that Christianity is fake because of several people not actually existing. Anyway, what do you think about this video?

Here's the link:
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

Have a great day!
-JTF123
liljp617
ugh please NO MORE!!

If you believe everything in that I feel sorry for you =/
EyesBlu
I've found the problem with many conspiracy theories is that they require the involvement such a number of people that someone would have come forward. Many of the 9'11 "inside job" theories for example fail this because they require the involvement of hundreds of individuals and I simply don't believe they could be so unified in their thinking. Someone would have come forward, its as simple as that.

If you believe everything about that video, hell if you decide you believe anything in that video, you need to revise your critical thinking skills. The correct thing to do would be to weigh the evidence of all theories, and decide how to act from there. While they do have some compelling evidence in that and other videos, much of it is debatable and they also jump to certain conclusions which are extreme and unreasonably ignore many other possibilities.

I consider the ability to reserve your judgment a virtue.
ocalhoun
There have been conspiracies though... Have you looked into the Oklahoma City bombing? (The government acted very suspiciously in that case, and what evidence there is that wasn't eradicated points to it being far more complicated than one madman with a truckload of explosives.)

Take it with a grain of salt though, looking at how much the government screws things up, is it really possible that they could pull off a complicated conspiracy without problems?
metlec
Hide the small secrets, becourse the big ones will not be belived..
SonLight
Most of the 9/11 conspiracy stuff is far-fetched. There are a lot of inconsistencies, and the government (or certain persons in the government) wants to hide some details because they don't want to admit they made serious mistakes.

I believed for a time that the one airplane (flight 93 I believe) was shot down by the air force in Pennsylvania. As terrible as it would be to do that, I could see how the order could have been given as a necessity. I would have considered covering up the fact of the shootdown if I was in government, to save the population from the horror of it. Enough information has been released that I doubt it was shot down, although the details of the crash are still unclear. The families (but not the public) were apparently allowed to hear the cockpit voice recorder.

I think the towers likely failed due to the crash. There is not enough hard evidence either way though, and there are inconsistencies. I tend to think that WTC 7 was demolished on purpose to prevent information leaking about the secret gobernment installation there.,
liljp617
SonLight wrote:
I think the towers likely failed due to the crash. There is not enough hard evidence either way though, and there are inconsistencies. I tend to think that WTC 7 was demolished on purpose to prevent information leaking about the secret gobernment installation there.,

This is the problem with that particular part of the 9/11 conspiracy junk. People (not directed specifically at you) say "the towers couldn't have fallen from the plane impact, it's impossible" or "building such and such fell down at free fall speeds that are impossible given the physics of it all" or "this building fell without any structural damage."

Then they automatically jump to the government, leaving an extremely huge gap in the middle of the discussion. Even if there were detonation charges in the buildings, where exactly does one come up with the idea that the government is responsible for placing them there? The anthrax deal was started by a fairly 'average joe,' the Oklahoma City Bombing was the largest terrorist attack on US soil until 9/11 and the government had nothing to do with that, etc. People who support the conspiracy act like it's 100% impossible to get your hands on detonation devices and explosives and other very harmful things when it's apparent it's not.

I believe the towers and buildings all fell from the planes until I see strong evidence supporting otherwise (something that hasn't come forth yet). But even so, if there were explosives and demolition involved, it could have been anybody in this whole country. To automatically jump to the government as being fully responsible is silly, useless, and does nothing but more damage to our country.
handfleisch
liljp617 wrote:

I believe the towers and buildings all fell from the planes until I see strong evidence supporting otherwise (something that hasn't come forth yet). But even so, if there were explosives and demolition involved, it could have been anybody in this whole country. To automatically jump to the government as being fully responsible is silly, useless, and does nothing but more damage to our country.


So you believe the building (WTC7) that didn't even get hit by a plane fell because of a being hit by a plane?

You might want to brush up on the basic facts of what is being discussed.
Bikerman
No, it fell because it was hit by debris. I did check the facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
loonix
One thing worth mentioning is a wiki article is not proof of fact - period.

How about the BBC reporting the fall of WTC 7 before it even fell http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/bbc_wtc7_videos.html

Its no secret that the BBC operate as a propaganda machine for todays TV population

Aaron Russo makes some interesting comments regarding the media being used post 9/11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA&eurl=http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=aaron+russo&hl=en&sitesearch=

If people want to beleive 9/11 was not an inside job then thats their business. The world is now moving thru the end game. Our politicians are not public servants by any measure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXobrGDb-vY
Bikerman
loonix wrote:
One thing worth mentioning is a wiki article is not proof of fact - period.
No, but the article references its sources and provides proper citations. Conspiracy theories never do this, of course.
Quote:
How about the BBC reporting the fall of WTC 7 before it even fell http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/bbc_wtc7_videos.html
This is dealt with by the BBC editorial staff here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/07/controversy_conspiracies_iii.html
Quote:
Its no secret that the BBC operate as a propaganda machine for todays TV population
LOL - and your evidence for this is? Actually the BBC IS a propogandist organisation - for the UK not for the US. Why would the UK be interested in this giant conspiracy? What would we gain? Blair's support for the US in Iraq, which resulted from 9/11, cost him his job - as he surely knew it would. Why would he help setup a nightmare scenario for himself? You seriously think that the BBC could hide evidence of a giant conspiracy? The BBC leaks like a sieve. It can't even keep secrets about its own governance and ******-ups, to suggest that it could keep the biggest conspiracy of all time secret is loony-tunes.
As one witness (Nancy Starr) writes:
Quote:
Oh for heaven's sake. I lived 6 blocks from the WTC and first of all, building 7 was a 47 story building, less than half the height of the towers. Second, it's face had been heavily damaged up to the 18th floor by falling debris from the towers; fires had started all over the lower floors, but there was no water pressure, and the firefighters couldn't control the fire, as they could not control the enormous amount of fires burning all over the remains of the WTC complex. Creaking had been heard coming from the building and it came down around 5:20 P.M. or so, meaning the fires had been burning all day. There's no mystery here.
{name here}
Quote:
One thing worth mentioning is a wiki article is not proof of fact - period.

How about the BBC reporting the fall of WTC 7 before it even fell http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/bbc_wtc7_videos.html

This could have been very easily a miscommunication between people on a day that was probably very frantic around news stations. CNN reported that 12 miners were rescued and one died when the opposite was soon revealed to be true. Before that, newspapers famously declared that Dewey defeated Truman.

Also, I was always under the impression that day, that WTC 7 was intentionally demolished by its owner for whatever reason.

Quote:
Its no secret that the BBC operate as a propaganda machine for todays TV population

BBC and Britain had little to gain outside of more viewers for its adverts. In fact, if it were an inside job by the US government I'd have to highly doubt they'd share it with anyone outside of anyone relevant in their chain of command - the less people know about it the less likely it is to get out. It would also be better for the US to truly get sympathy from other countries and their world leaders and culture fear unto them to trample over whatever they wanted to get.

And since I don't think people really watch BBC here in the states, where the manufacturing of consent wouldn't be really as necessary to pull something. Already allied American news providers would have been all that would have been really necessary if they wanted to genuinely pull a conspiracy. And since this is an AMERICAN tragedy a REAL American would watch AMERICAN NEWS to get their information about what happened (Note I'm not being serious in this sentence but trying to illustrate a subtle subconscious feeling which probably went through a lot of people's heads that day).
Bikerman
{name here} wrote:
BBC and Britain had little to gain outside of more viewers for its adverts. In fact, if it were an inside job by the US government I'd have to highly doubt they'd share it with anyone outside of anyone relevant in their chain of command - the less people know about it the less likely it is to get out. It would also be better for the US to truly get sympathy from other countries and their world leaders and culture fear unto them to trample over whatever they wanted to get.
I agree, but I would go further. If there really was a conspiracy (and I believe there was - but only after the events and the conspiracy was to cover-up the ******-ups made) then the LAST people you would inform would be the news agencies such as the BBC. The BBC News may be many things but it is NOT very secret - it is staffed by people whose main role is to report news - hardly a good choice for a secret cabal....
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