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The DS is not for games anymore... :(





UntitledDocument
Publishers seem to be focusing on the mainstream and leaving out dedicated fans. At least have a balance between the mainstream and the hardcore. There need to be games for propper gamers! No more Puppy Simulator 8, or Alchoholics Anonymous DS...

The people who nintendo are aiming for probably still bought a DS for gaming so why stop making games and start making simulators and educational tools? One and two is alright, brain training and brain acadamy i can understand, but bring back propper gaming please nintendo and its third party developers!
Arty
They wanna make unique games that can only be played on the DS (i.e. with a stylus), so they're not making games for the "mainstream" people.

Anyway I thought the Starfox game on the DS was pretty cool. ^^
Ghengis
WTF? Are you in some poor neglected region like Europe or Australia? I have at least a dozen "hardcore" DS games in my "to play" pile. Sure, the percentage of total games that are "hardcore" might be small, but that's true of most platforms now. Let's see what the short list looks like:

World Ends with You
Ninja Gaiden
Etrian Odessey I/II
Shiren the Wanderer
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
Rondo of Swords
Professor Layton
Several Castlevanias and Megamans

And most of that is just from the last ~3 months. I think the DS is doing great.
Flarkis
In my opinion if you are such a hard core gamer y didnt you get a psp.
Wuppie
As if the developers care that they don't make "real" games. They just want money, with Brain trainer, brain trainer 2, brain trainer extra, sight trainer More Braintraining...And the list goes on and on.
UntitledDocument
Ghengis wrote:
WTF? Are you in some poor neglected region like Europe or Australia?


I'm from the UK... thanks for that Rolling Eyes

Maybe I should change the subject title to "The DS isn't for neglected regions like Europe or Australia"


And I know the developers don't care but they have to give it their "seal of approval"

Years ago a Nintendo spokesperson was interviewed and he was like "We would like to appeal to everyone but it's not our main priority. If we appeal to parents, then the coolness is lost and kids stop buying our games."

I guess times have changed =\

But I'm not blaming Nintendo, I love nintendo lol. It's the stupid BIG developers that thrive off party games, movie games, and the new genre which I guess I should call "mommy games"
Ghengis
I consider myself a 'core' gamer (I think that's market-weasel-speak), and I got my PSP before my DS. I used it 95% for SNES emulation until Ratchet and Clank came out -- there were so few good games within the first ~year or so of the system. The DS had the same problem, but if you consider the entire back catalog, I think they've had at least one really good or great title per month since release (on average), which is a fine track record IMHO. I could list more, or you could just to look at Metacritic to get some ideas.

ETA: Try Ouendan / Elite Beat Agents, if you haven't. The harder difficulties will break you and remold you into a hardcore badass (secret agent cheerleader, but that's another story).
haydxn
Ehrm.. well, i think you're just being a little silly.

For a start: you're wrong. There are plenty of 'real games' out and being released all the time. Just because there are lots of these stupid 'games' coming out, doesn't mean that there is any validity to your point!

Would you say that the deluge of gash 'reality tv' means that there isn't any good drama being made any more? [if you did, you'd be wrong]. And though there is a lot of appalling blockbuster nonsense at the cinema, that's no evidence that good high-standard films are no longer being made; they are.

The developers do care. Appealing to the broader markets of the public (as the sector has been blown wide open by the new nintendo formats) does not mean that 'true games' are not being made.

I know that the developers care because I am one. Moreover, I am a developer for the nintendo DS and Wii platforms. While the games we make are aimed more specifically at children, they are certainly real games, and incredibly popular ones at that. Besides, it's foolish to pretend that nintendo hasn't always been a kid-friendly platform anyway.

Just because the ratio of not-hardcore to hardcore games has changed, that doesn't mean there is a lesser quantity of the more discerning gamer's games being released. It's not as if an awesome game used to come out every week.
Ghengis
I agree that the OP's wrong, but he may have misstated his intent. There's a lot of negative press about systems where the shovelware:quality ratio is too high, and the DS, Wii, and Xbox Live Arcade are all examples of this -- there's so much shit that the good games get lost in the flood. I gave some examples of good games above, but you'd certainly be forgiven for missing them when they're outnumbered 10:1 or worse by Barbie Horse Adventures 7 and Super Pretty Sparkle Dress-Up 23.
jon_k
comeing in december 08 trackmania is being released on ds should be fun
smasha
There are a few great RPGs and strat games for the DS thats about it IMO. The brain games were cool but no just so over them. Playing FF12 at the moment.
Fake
Ghengis wrote:
WTF? Are you in some poor neglected region like Europe or Australia? I have at least a dozen "hardcore" DS games in my "to play" pile. Sure, the percentage of total games that are "hardcore" might be small, but that's true of most platforms now. Let's see what the short list looks like:

World Ends with You
Ninja Gaiden
Etrian Odessey I/II
Shiren the Wanderer
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
Rondo of Swords
Professor Layton
Several Castlevanias and Megamans

And most of that is just from the last ~3 months. I think the DS is doing great.


Wat do u mean by AUSTRALIA? :@
pretty-dreamz
I don't bother playing games on my DS. I only have like 4 games!
Nameless
Speaking as somebody who both lives in Australia and had perused the available DS games to purchase in store ... I'd say the ratio of decent games to 'mainstream' 'games' (using one term dubiously and other sarcastically) (and awful games based off movies and such) is as disappointing as it has been for any other console, but there are still enough decent games available.
Nehallyn
Perhaps if the DS was a proper gaming platform. Compared to the Wii, or even the PSP, who wants to bother with it?
Ghengis
Nehallyn wrote:
Perhaps if the DS was a proper gaming platform. Compared to the Wii, or even the PSP, who wants to bother with it?


Ouch! That's pretty harsh -- my Wii sits on the shelf unused for months at a time, usually waiting for a new first-party game to come out. At least the DS has seen some great support from SquareEnix, Capcom, and Konami. I mean, any platform is only as good as its library, and the library is only as good as its service to your favorite genres, but I really think the DS has come a long way since launch and probably has something for everyone -- unless, of course, you only play FPS games.... then, I can't help you.


Seriously, what genres do you like? I'm really surprised at how many people don't think the DS has enough games.
haydxn
i think the DS is the perfect gaming platform. i really do, it's spot on. it's so capable, and there is still so much potential in it, despite being relatively underpowered.
Ghengis
I mean, there's the nub of it -- well into the PSP/DS era, I was playing mostly GBA. Why? People were making amazing games for it, and my GBA SP was (and still might be) the pinnacle of portable console design. The DS has come into its own, and the library is there to support it.

Now, if I can just fix my damn R button, I'll be in business.
AK47BLAZE
Ya, the PSP/DS era is like gone. I have the DS and liked how you can contol games like Nintendogs and other ones. Do not feel bad though, trade your DS in if that happens and get a Wii?
QrafTee
AK47BLAZE wrote:
Ya, the PSP/DS era is like gone. I have the DS and liked how you can contol games like Nintendogs and other ones. Do not feel bad though, trade your DS in if that happens and get a Wii?

You don't like The World Ends With You? Final Fantasy III? Final Fantasy IV? Mario Kart DS? Animal Crossing DS? Final Fantasy Tactics A2? Meteos?
Diablosblizz
Not to be down on Nintendo or anything, cause I'm a hugggeee Mario fan. Nintendo isn't as "violent" as other games, this is games I'm talking about. I don't think I've seen a Nintendo made game that has been exsessivly violent. I think it's great that they're bringing some education to games, although I am a true gamer myself. Have you actually played any of those educational games, they're actually pretty fun. I don't believe it's the game that makes it fun, but it's more the challenge or thought of "Oh, something I can beat, let's beat it! I must be the best!"

Just somebodys opinion, don't start flaming me. Smile
gwsystem
I dun haf neither DS or PSP, but sounds like DS is hotter than PSP. Why's that? I thot PSP haf better graphics? But i know DS can be more engaging. I learnt from a friend that while playing certain games, u can shout into the mic or blow air to simulating shouting and blowing of candles. Quite cool !
QrafTee
gwsystem wrote:
I dun haf neither DS or PSP, but sounds like DS is hotter than PSP. Why's that? I thot PSP haf better graphics? But i know DS can be more engaging. I learnt from a friend that while playing certain games, u can shout into the mic or blow air to simulating shouting and blowing of candles. Quite cool !

If you don't have either, then you can't really say blowing air or shouting at the DS is fun; to me, it's not. However, it is more engaging and easier to play a little from time to time (which is what a handheld is for). Both the DS and the PSP are fun, but I find the longer battery life and games you can just turn on, play for an hour and stop makes it better for a portable gaming system. The PSP, although fun, has poor battery life and their games draw you in like home consoles... adding those two to a portability factor is a bad combination.
eday2010
I find the DS has too many good games. I bought a DS in the winter just to play New Super Mario Bros. and have ended up with over a dozen games, with a list of two dozen more that I want to get! It's the perfect platform for those who like 2D platform games. That's why I got it. It's like the second coming of the gold age of video games (16-bit, that is).

gwsystem wrote:
I dun haf neither DS or PSP, but sounds like DS is hotter than PSP. Why's that? I thot PSP haf better graphics?


I don't see how better graphics make a beeter console. Would you like to explain this? Because I thought it was the GAMES that made the console.
QrafTee
eday2010 wrote:
I find the DS has too many good games. I bought a DS in the winter just to play New Super Mario Bros. and have ended up with over a dozen games, with a list of two dozen more that I want to get! It's the perfect platform for those who like 2D platform games. That's why I got it. It's like the second coming of the gold age of video games (16-bit, that is).

gwsystem wrote:
I dun haf neither DS or PSP, but sounds like DS is hotter than PSP. Why's that? I thot PSP haf better graphics?


I don't see how better graphics make a beeter console. Would you like to explain this? Because I thought it was the GAMES that made the console.

I really doubt the Nintendo DS is a 16-bit handheld... Unless you were referring to the Golden Age of Gaming being the 16-bit era.
eday2010
I meant the golden age was the 16-bit era. The DS is is 32-bit
Ghengis
One of the cool things about the DS (IMHO) is that the limited power encourages developers to make games that are more like the 16-bit era (even if it is a 32-bit console). I'm not saying that really creative developers can't do more with a more powerful console (you really can't do e.g. MGS4 or Final Fantasy X on a Colecovision), but there are benefits. The mass-market success of a relatively "weak" platform like the DS allows smaller studios to spend less and use fewer programmers to make software that still sells well. It's sort of like the "casual" market on the PC. I just like to see the continued success of games that don't take a ten million dollar budget to get out the door.
QrafTee
Ghengis wrote:
One of the cool things about the DS (IMHO) is that the limited power encourages developers to make games that are more like the 16-bit era (even if it is a 32-bit console). I'm not saying that really creative developers can't do more with a more powerful console (you really can't do e.g. MGS4 or Final Fantasy X on a Colecovision), but there are benefits. The mass-market success of a relatively "weak" platform like the DS allows smaller studios to spend less and use fewer programmers to make software that still sells well. It's sort of like the "casual" market on the PC. I just like to see the continued success of games that don't take a ten million dollar budget to get out the door.

Yeah... PopCap hit it big with Peggle in the casual PC market; I know exactly what you mean.
Insanity
I think Nintendo as a whole is trying to move towards the whole family friendly thing. Even with the Gamecube you could see games that were directed towards a much younger audience. With the Wii, you can see that even more. Instead of just hardcore gaming, you have the Wii mote which is totally a family friendly kiddy thing, no matter how you put it. You can also see it in their new games. If you ask me, Super Smash Bros. Brawl has been dumbed down a bit to accomodate for the younger and more casual gamers. If you compare it to Melee, it's a lot slower, etc. So it would make sense that this is also happening to the DS.
QrafTee
Insanity wrote:
I think Nintendo as a whole is trying to move towards the whole family friendly thing. Even with the Gamecube you could see games that were directed towards a much younger audience. With the Wii, you can see that even more. Instead of just hardcore gaming, you have the Wii mote which is totally a family friendly kiddy thing, no matter how you put it. You can also see it in their new games. If you ask me, Super Smash Bros. Brawl has been dumbed down a bit to accomodate for the younger and more casual gamers. If you compare it to Melee, it's a lot slower, etc. So it would make sense that this is also happening to the DS.

Brawl is a lot slower than Melee? Some fast characters have been slowed down, but I believe its due to character balance issues. If you want to see a lot slower, check out Super Smash Bros. on the N64, that was A LOT slower. Brawl hasn't been "dumbed down" either; have you even played the game? There are Wii controls, but most vets use the Gamecube controller and there's no dumbing down in that department. The biggest weakness of Brawl is its online multiplayer.
Futile
I have both a PSP and a DS. I have 20 games for the DS and about 30 plus on the PSP if you count video umds and game isos. Both the PSP and DS have their advantages and disadvantage but the DS beats out the PSP overall. The DS is for gamers. It is for gaming. It has a bigger library and more developers then the PSP. The PSP is for someone who wants a portable Multimedia device. You can surf the web, play videos and MP3s, use it as a USB Flash Drive for your computer, hook it up to your HD TV and either play games or watch videos. When you think about it, the PSP is in reality a portable PS2. Go figure.

Yes Nintendo as of late has turned its main focus away from the "Core" gamer, but they stated this fact at E3. They are still producing quality “Core” games just not at the frequency that they once did. Nintendo’s track record has always been the “new, untapped” market. They gamble and it usually pays off, (I am sure that some us older gamers remember the infamous Virtual Boy and a few other flops). Bottom line Nintendo is all about making that paper (‘paper’ is slang for money in case you didn’t know). At this stage of the game Nintendo could market dirt and it would sell. “Wii would like to dig.”
QrafTee
Futile wrote:
I have both a PSP and a DS. I have 20 games for the DS and about 30 plus on the PSP if you count video umds and game isos. Both the PSP and DS have their advantages and disadvantage but the DS beats out the PSP overall. The DS is for gamers. It is for gaming. It has a bigger library and more developers then the PSP. The PSP is for someone who wants a portable Multimedia device. You can surf the web, play videos and MP3s, use it as a USB Flash Drive for your computer, hook it up to your HD TV and either play games or watch videos. When you think about it, the PSP is in reality a portable PS2. Go figure.

Yes Nintendo as of late has turned its main focus away from the "Core" gamer, but they stated this fact at E3. They are still producing quality “Core” games just not at the frequency that they once did. Nintendo’s track record has always been the “new, untapped” market. They gamble and it usually pays off, (I am sure that some us older gamers remember the infamous Virtual Boy and a few other flops). Bottom line Nintendo is all about making that paper (‘paper’ is slang for money in case you didn’t know). At this stage of the game Nintendo could market dirt and it would sell. “Wii would like to dig.”

Wii Dig... sounds like it would work great with the MotionPlus add-on. Wink
Elric
haydxn wrote:
i think the DS is the perfect gaming platform. i really do, it's spot on. it's so capable, and there is still so much potential in it, despite being relatively underpowered.


I have one and IMHO it's basically worthless for an adult gamer, IMHO.

I can't tell you how many freaking games have been ruined by unnecessary use of the touch screen, too, and being left handed doesn't help at all. It's cool when the game actually can make good use of the TS but I've ssen so many titles where the touch screen makes no sense as a controller that force its use. This probably due to the lack of any other analog control on the device.

Ditto with the dual screens. Really, when it makes sense it's great but a lot of games break stuff up across the screens when it makes no sense and it's distracting, IMHO.

Also, it's pretty under powered from a GFX/CPU standpoint. Almost all games have tons and tons of text just to get started because the system does not have enough storage/power to do a decent cut scene, etc.

The software library is geared toward kids and the system doesn't have the graphical oomph, screen real estate, or analog controls to do cool grown up games ala GTA/Metal Gear/God of War.

My six year old daughter uses my DS these days to play puppy games. I use a PSP pretty much exclusively, now for portable gaming, movie watching, and WiFi applications and any title I have for both units I pretty much uniformly find the PSP version superior (basically Madden, et al).

That said, I look forward to the next gen of both systems though. The motion sensing tech should be cool and doable on a handheld now... and a PSP CPU/GFX-class multimedia unit with a large touch screen and HDD would PWN just about anything. I hope neither next gen system bothers with two screens in favor of one larger touch screen + dual analog sticks. Shocked
QrafTee
Elric wrote:
haydxn wrote:
i think the DS is the perfect gaming platform. i really do, it's spot on. it's so capable, and there is still so much potential in it, despite being relatively underpowered.


I have one and IMHO it's basically worthless for an adult gamer, IMHO.

I can't tell you how many freaking games have been ruined by unnecessary use of the touch screen, too, and being left handed doesn't help at all. It's cool when the game actually can make good use of the TS but I've ssen so many titles where the touch screen makes no sense as a controller that force its use. This probably due to the lack of any other analog control on the device.

Ditto with the dual screens. Really, when it makes sense it's great but a lot of games break stuff up across the screens when it makes no sense and it's distracting, IMHO.

Also, it's pretty under powered from a GFX/CPU standpoint. Almost all games have tons and tons of text just to get started because the system does not have enough storage/power to do a decent cut scene, etc.

The software library is geared toward kids and the system doesn't have the graphical oomph, screen real estate, or analog controls to do cool grown up games ala GTA/Metal Gear/God of War.

My six year old daughter uses my DS these days to play puppy games. I use a PSP pretty much exclusively, now for portable gaming, movie watching, and WiFi applications and any title I have for both units I pretty much uniformly find the PSP version superior (basically Madden, et al).

That said, I look forward to the next gen of both systems though. The motion sensing tech should be cool and doable on a handheld now... and a PSP CPU/GFX-class multimedia unit with a large touch screen and HDD would PWN just about anything. I hope neither next gen system bothers with two screens in favor of one larger touch screen + dual analog sticks. Shocked

You must be behind the times because I don't have any issues with the dual screens or the touch screen. Yes, some of the uses are excessive, but most of the time they're optional in these cases.

A big screen with dual analog sticks... I rather not have a large handheld or that's about as portable as a notebook... although dual analog sticks are possible in handhelds.

I own both a NDSL and a PSPS, I use the NDSL more because it has a better selection of games and looking from your avatar, you would appreciate it more if you've tried the Final Fantasy titles.

Don't get my wrong, I love my PSPS and it is superior to the NDSL in many ways, but graphics aren't everything--they're worth something, but not everything. Still waiting on some worthy games to play on the PSPS... C'mon Kingdom Hearts.... and/or Final Fantasy VII remake...
Ghengis
What, you're too "adult" to enjoy Professor Layton, or any of the Final Fantasy remakes, or Puzzle Quest (that game is fricking crack), or The World Ends With You, or Space Invaders Extreme (the DS version benefits from the vertical screen form factor), or Trauma Center, or Ninja Gaiden (I was amazed to find how well the touch screen works), or Civ Rev (made for touch-screen, that), or a dozen other games I could name if I took a minute to look them up?

I hope I never "grow up" that much...
QrafTee
Ghengis wrote:
What, you're too "adult" to enjoy Professor Layton, or any of the Final Fantasy remakes, or Puzzle Quest (that game is fricking crack), or The World Ends With You, or Space Invaders Extreme (the DS version benefits from the vertical screen form factor), or Trauma Center, or Ninja Gaiden (I was amazed to find how well the touch screen works), or Civ Rev (made for touch-screen, that), or a dozen other games I could name if I took a minute to look them up?

I hope I never "grow up" that much...

Peter Pan, you will never have to grow up! Cool
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