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Obama: rumors of anti-patriotism?





ocalhoun
I have heard rumors that Obama refuses to stand or put his hand over his heart for the national anthem. As a military member, I was instilled with a lot of respect for the flag, so this disturbs me that our possible commander in chief would not respect it.

Can anyone verify if these rumors are true, and if they are tell me why he does this?
a.Bird
Well I cannot confirm anything about Obama's reasoning on this subject, but would you mind if I brought up a separate course of judgment? It seems as though you would assume that Obama disrespects our national flag if he does not place his hand over his heart. Is this to say that you believe his human right to not place his hand over his heart if he chooses not to is superseded by some arbitrary tradition?
KronikSindrome
I'd admire him more if he put it over his scrotum.

I like Obamam, despite his name's resemblence to OSAMA.

Personaly though, I'm afraid he's going to enslave white people
when/if elected. (I'll be okay thought cause I have several black
freinds and one co-worker who promises me in such an event he
will buy me to be his slave and will treat me good)

Hillary - Obama - either way I think we all win -

we need to get rid of the white wrinkly right wing nazi's

-covers scrotum, sings national anthem rosane bar style, and ducks from tomatos-
Tumbleweed
ocalhoun wrote:
I have heard rumors that Obama refuses to stand or put his hand over his heart for the national anthem. As a military member, I was instilled with a lot of respect for the flag, so this disturbs me that our possible commander in chief would not respect it.

Can anyone verify if these rumors are true, and if they are tell me why he does this?


I doubt that very much, and assume its just a rumour , surley that kind of behaviour would be political suicide.
Bondings
It's a rumour. Just like him being a muslim and similar stuff.

I don't understand why the media seems to be reporting almost solely about things like these. I assume a good program and points of view aren't important in the election of a US president, the most powerful position on the planet. Shocked
ocalhoun
a.Bird wrote:
Is this to say that you believe his human right to not place his hand over his heart if he chooses not to is superseded by some arbitrary tradition?


Well, no, but the president should be as patriotic as anybody. If he isn't he should have a good reason not to be. I would feel very uneasy with a president who had no respect for his own country.
standready
Obama does wear a flag lapel pin. I thought the "hand over heart" was for the pledge not the anthem. Standing is a given.
nilsmo
It's a total lie and rumor. Why did people believe in this stuff? (Like Obama being a muslim.)

Quote:
People say believe half of what you see,
Son, and none of what you hear.


That comes from the song I Heard It Through the Grapevine Smile Just believe stuff you get from credible sources.
snowboardalliance
a.Bird wrote:
Well I cannot confirm anything about Obama's reasoning on this subject, but would you mind if I brought up a separate course of judgment? It seems as though you would assume that Obama disrespects our national flag if he does not place his hand over his heart. Is this to say that you believe his human right to not place his hand over his heart if he chooses not to is superseded by some arbitrary tradition?


Yeah why does patriotism have to be so traditional? Like the "laws" on folding flags (there are laws but they have no penalty), I think people have a very warped sense of patriotism. Patriotism isn't about flags or songs and it sure and shit isn't about politicians. It's about the people of the country. So I'm just going to end my rant there, sense the whole thing was a rumor.
achowles
Where do people get this rubbish from? Do you really think he'd have garnered so much support if he was unpatriotic? It would be impossible. He would be dropped like a hot stone.
ptfrances
For me this kind of rumor are completely stupid.
ocalhoun
snowboardalliance wrote:


Yeah why does patriotism have to be so traditional? Like the "laws" on folding flags (there are laws but they have no penalty), I think people have a very warped sense of patriotism. Patriotism isn't about flags or songs and it sure and shit isn't about politicians. It's about the people of the country. So I'm just going to end my rant there, sense the whole thing was a rumor.


Well, yes, but it is a very odd sort of patriotism that is expressed by sitting down while everyone else is standing for the national anthem... (Of course, where I am now, there are penalties for doing such things incorrectly...)
Futile
I am an Obama supporter but it is not a rumor or a made up lie. The article and picture were ran in the October 1, 2007 issue of Time magazine See the link below for more info and details:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/10/20/obama-no-hand-heart-pledge-either-will-msm-notice

There is also a US code that also states the "correct procedure" when it comes to the flag. The above link also has a link to that information.

Bottom line is he didn't put his hand over his heart but that doesn't mean he is unpatriotic. It was a brain fart if anything. Now if he did this all the time then that would be a reason for concern. I don't put my hand over my heart sometimes. I was in the military for over 15 years and I stand at attention more out of habit then disrespect or being unpatriotic. I was in three different combat situations over that period of time and I dare anyone to question or doubt my patriotism. This whole issue was blown out of portion because of the primary election and the media wanting to toss more wood onto this already oversize bonfire that is called the democratic process.

My 2 cents
Bondings
Futile wrote:
I am an Obama supporter but it is not a rumor or a made up lie. The article and picture were ran in the October 1, 2007 issue of Time magazine See the link below for more info and details:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/10/20/obama-no-hand-heart-pledge-either-will-msm-notice

There is also a US code that also states the "correct procedure" when it comes to the flag. The above link also has a link to that information.

Bottom line is he didn't put his hand over his heart but that doesn't mean he is unpatriotic. It was a brain fart if anything. Now if he did this all the time then that would be a reason for concern. I don't put my hand over my heart sometimes. I was in the military for over 15 years and I stand at attention more out of habit then disrespect or being unpatriotic. I was in three different combat situations over that period of time and I dare anyone to question or doubt my patriotism. This whole issue was blown out of portion because of the primary election and the media wanting to toss more wood onto this already oversize bonfire that is called the democratic process.

My 2 cents

In any case he definitely didn't refuse to do it since he did put his hand over his heart at other occasions.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp
Liu
People are way too easily offended these days. You are reading into the wrong things. You should be paying attention more to what the politicians have to say about their plans, foreign affairs, and how they plan to run the country, than some simple mistakes like these.
catscratches
I don't see anything wrong in not singing the national anthem or anything like that. I think that USA is a bit too partiotic. I don't think we should care about people's origin.
friuser
This thread kinda reminds me of the people commenting about how about one house in the neighborhood did not have a us flag after 911. If patriotism can be so easily determined by standing by ones hand over their hard while reciting the national anthem we wouldn't have alot of problems. Perhaps we should bring back McCarthyism because that's all this topic is about really.
Ghost Rider103
I don't really see it as any real problem.

But I do think it is kind of weird somone as high up as him did not follow the tradition. Has there ever been a time in YOUR life where you havn't had your hand over your heart during a national anthem, or during the pledge? I can tell you that I have always had my hand over my heart while doing a pledge, or listeing to the National Anthem, it would just feel weird for me not to have my hand over my heart, while everyone else does.

I think people over reacted a bit, but it is a bit strange.
James007
The man is running for president, I repeat "PRE-SI-DENT", that should deserve some bonus marks on your patriotism scale, shouldn't it?

@KronikSindrome: Barack Osama, now that's funny. Laughing
ocalhoun
Bondings wrote:
Futile wrote:
I am an Obama supporter but it is not a rumor or a made up lie. The article and picture were ran in the October 1, 2007 issue of Time magazine See the link below for more info and details:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/10/20/obama-no-hand-heart-pledge-either-will-msm-notice

There is also a US code that also states the "correct procedure" when it comes to the flag. The above link also has a link to that information.

Bottom line is he didn't put his hand over his heart but that doesn't mean he is unpatriotic. It was a brain fart if anything. Now if he did this all the time then that would be a reason for concern. I don't put my hand over my heart sometimes. I was in the military for over 15 years and I stand at attention more out of habit then disrespect or being unpatriotic. I was in three different combat situations over that period of time and I dare anyone to question or doubt my patriotism. This whole issue was blown out of portion because of the primary election and the media wanting to toss more wood onto this already oversize bonfire that is called the democratic process.

My 2 cents

In any case he definitely didn't refuse to do it since he did put his hand over his heart at other occasions.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp


In that case it is probably fine. As long as he doesn't do that all the time, and it was just a mistake. I was just concerned about it because he seems likely to be the next president.
PatTheGreat42
I think patriotism isn't about the silly little symbols of fealty like putting your hand over your heart. I think patriotism is about serving your country, and he has chosen to serve by trying to become President.
ocalhoun
^So it would be impossible to have an unpatriotic president because trying to be president automatically makes one patriotic?
James007
No, it's the other way around. Running for president shows a great amount of patriotism. Patriotism for me emplies "caring about your country" and "being proud of your country". Therefore, running for president is just another way of being patriotic, and not inferior to the hand over heart gesture.
catscratches
Or just being fed up with all the injustice and wants to change the country cause you hate it...
fratellis
there will always be one candidate in each election that gets most of the negative AND positive attention. it is obama in this case and right now it doesnt seem like an advantage
TentativeChaos
Guys I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is a totally false rumor. The thing is, even if Obama doesn't like the flag he'd still put his hand on his heart since he's running for president. He wouldn't be that stupid.

It quite obvious why rumors like this come up too. The thing is that the opposing people always sling mud at each other. The thing is, Obama doesn't really have any skeletons in his closet that people can exploit, so they have to rely on rumors and hearsay for their anti-propaganda.

Oh and one more thing: Obama wants to change this country. He thinks that there is something wring with it right now. That could be a good reason he doesn't give the pledge at the moment. I can assure you he does though.
nigam
Obama wants changed for the betterment of the country. He sees wrong with it. Do you know his platforms?
godaddyman
I think everyone should read this article. Written by a black conservative, it really does play a devil's advocate on the situation of Obama's church of over 20 years:

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/rush/070221
Insanity
Barack Obama has made it a point that he defines patriotism in other ways than simply putting your hand over your heart when you say the Pledge of Allegiance. He also prefers not to wear a flag pin lapel on his jacket because he says that it gives a false impression of patriotism, when true patriotism would be to get the soldiers out of Iraq and helping the country through other ways.

He's basically saying that just because you have your hand over your heart does not automatically make you a patriot, that it distracts people from the real issue.
catscratches
godaddyman wrote:
I think everyone should read this article. Written by a black conservative, it really does play a devil's advocate on the situation of Obama's church of over 20 years:

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/rush/070221
And what's the difference between that church and other american churches (black instead of white?)?

Does Obama automatically think the same as the church just because he goes to it? If so, then the church must be really brainwashing (wouldn't surprise me, though). I went to church when I was little, but I don't agree with what it says.

I don't know whether Obama is a partiot or not, I don't care. It's his politics that matter. And if I'd live in the USA, I'd surely vote for him as he's the most liberal one. (Not as liberal as the most conservative Swedish parties though.) I don't hate homosexuals, I don't believe in war, so I don't care if he's not partiotic. McCain is still not an alternative.
misterXY
achowles wrote:
Where do people get this rubbish from? Do you really think he'd have garnered so much support if he was unpatriotic? It would be impossible. He would be dropped like a hot stone.

Media like the CNN... Shocked Laughing
deanhills
Obama looks nice enough, gives me a feeling of Clinton, charming everyone, being nice, friendly and polite. I am an outsider, and as an outsier I get a feeling that Obama is not completely a US citizen. If one would work on the following points system:

Family:
Roots:
Etc. etc.

How many generations of his have lived in the States, where are they from, and for how long have they lived in one place. I.e. with Clinton, Reagan, all the presidents for that matter there is a clearcut background with roots that go down into US history very consistently and deeply. Yet I do not get the same feeling with Obama, so can understand why he would not think about putting his hand over his heart. He just has not been trained in it. Can imagine since he is such a nice and polite guy that he will definitely be holding his hand over his heart from now on.

Having said the above, maybe an outsider is just what the States needs. Maybe there has been too many of the same type of President going round and the US is in need of someone totally different. Obama definitely has lots different to offer the country. Maybe another Kennedy in the making? As Kennedy also personfied a break from a traditional template of old cronies before him. He brought with him lots of fresh air, super intelligence. Wow just occurred to me with Kennedy that those that do not fit the traditional template of a President are most likely to need plenty of personal security? Wonder whether Obama knows what he is letting himself and his family in for?
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
Wow just occurred to me with Kennedy that those that do not fit the traditional template of a President are most likely to need plenty of personal security? Wonder whether Obama knows what he is letting himself and his family in for?

Definitely. Not only for being an outsider, but also because of race. I'm sure there are those who would take extreme measures to keep a black man from being president. (An easy example: KKK)
BugBear
I don't think it's disrespectful to not put your hand over your heart. Now if he didn't stand during the national anthem and such then it would be disrespectful but not putting your hand over your heard in my opinion isn't.
quilledbroomstick
Obama scares me and not because he doesn't put his hand over his heart...who cares...he scares me because of his 20 year relationship with his (he claimed him as such) mentor Jerimiah Wright. That man scares the daylights out of me... he is the black version of the white KKK leaders who are ignorant bafoons. For Obama to deny any knowledge of Wrights racial beliefs really makes me rethink what kind of person Obama really is. Is that unobservant that he was blatantly blind to see Wrights true colors or was he preoccupied during those sermans. I don't know, it is very unsettling to me and for this reason alone, I am not voting for Obama in November. For the first time in my life I am going to vote independent!
blackheart
nilsmo wrote:
It's a total lie and rumor. Why did people believe in this stuff? (Like Obama being a muslim.)

Quote:
People say believe half of what you see,
Son, and none of what you hear.


That comes from the song I Heard It Through the Grapevine Smile Just believe stuff you get from credible sources.


As a side note, what would be the issue is he were Islamic?

Well, I understand why it would be an issue practically, but theoretically why should it be?


However on his not placing his hand over his heart, I can see how it would be an issue if it were true as although a good President must be openly critical of his nation, he must still feel comfortable alledging himself to it... obviously.


I'd tend to think it must be hype purely because it would be political suicide in a country where campaigning is such an important part of the democratic process. Hmm.


=> Jess
deanhills
Think the bottomline here is that Obama is different from ever before and must be rattling skeletons in everyone's cupboard. Will be interesting to see how the elections go. Personally if there had been someone better in the Republican Party than McCain I think it would have been much better. In the end I think it is going to be a vote for or against Obama and by default McCain will be winning as a result.
Soulfire
I do not blame him, look at the joke our country has become ... it's a disgrace.
deanhills
Soulfire wrote:
I do not blame him, look at the joke our country has become ... it's a disgrace.


Has to be a disgrace if all they could come up with was McCain. Would have wished for a good competition among strong candidates for the Republican Party, and sorry that the Democrats won out in putting forward the first nominee for a woman. Surely the Republican Party has some of the very best women candidates. What has happened to the Republican Party?
Thumpercats
I think it is just strange that he won't put his hand over his heart during the national anthem. Sure it is everyone's ruight to choose to do so, but if you are going to be the President (potentially) you should want to putyour hand over your heart!

Go Republicans!
EyesBlu
ocalhoun wrote:
I have heard rumors that Obama refuses to stand or put his hand over his heart for the national anthem. As a military member, I was instilled with a lot of respect for the flag, so this disturbs me that our possible commander in chief would not respect it.

Can anyone verify if these rumors are true, and if they are tell me why he does this?


This is an idiotic thing to fixate on. There are real problems in this country. Our economy is in a crisis, we are trapped in a war that seemingly has no point anymore, a great deal of our infrastructure is invalidated due to the cost of fuel, and we face environmental crisis.

And the rumors are improbable on their face. Barrack wants to be president, therefore he has to pander to the voters. No one smart enough to get to the position he is in now is stupid enough to make a statement like that. And for the record, I think he's a greater patriot than almost anyone else in government.

You have to at least try to think critically, I know it's hard.
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