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Kosovo Independence:good or bad?





lucamanu
The US, backed by most of Western European countries, played a key role in pushing Kosovo-albanian political elites to make a unilateral declaration of independence, on February 2008. The independence is however strongly opposed by Serbia, the country claiming the sovereignty over the entire Kosovo land, backed by its traditional ally, Russia.
The fact is that Serbia's claims are based on international law and on the UN Security Council Resolution n.1244, which clearly states that Kosovo belongs to Serbia. The recognition of Kosovo's declaration of independence is going, therefore, against international law and against UN Charter.
On the other hand, the declaration of independence is but the last step of a long evolution which started in 1989, with the decision of Milosevic to withdraw all autonomy to the region which is populated by a large majority of Albanians, and started 10 years of terrible oppression, substantially leading to a sort of "apartheid" managed by the Serbs against the Albanian population. In fact, since the NATO-Serbian conflict of 1999, Serbia did not retain any control on the entire region, and it was hard to imagine, if not impossible, that Kosovo could one day go back to Belgrade's rule.
What is your opinion on this?
MaxStirner
A very similar thread is posted here:
Poll: Kosovo Independance

In any case, if I am forced to give a "yes/no" answer to the question of Kosovo Independence, then the answer would be "no". As much as I might sympathize with what many minorities have gone through on the Balkan, any secessions, no matter where (China, Spain, Ireland, India, ... there are so many) need to be addressed at the UN. Everything else invites chaos, of which we have had plenty.

Max
lucamanu
Thank you very much Max. I just arrived on the forums, and after taking a quick look I could not find any post on Kosovo, to my surprise. I will fly to the poll you reported.
Regards!
Shocked
MaxStirner
lucamanu wrote:
Thank you very much Max. I just arrived on the forums, and after taking a quick look I could not find any post on Kosovo, to my surprise. I will fly to the poll you reported.
Regards!
Shocked


No problem at all. Welcome to FriHost and have fun!
P.S. Try the "search" (top right of screen) before posting, I've only been here a few months and had similar problems figuring out what subjects were discussed where.
P.P.S. It's not that I wanted to redirect you to MY post, but that I happened to recall the subject Smile .
supjapscrapper
Thanks for the link to the poll max, I was able to put my vote in! Well I have a n opposite opinion to yours. You regard thigs as a typical bureaucrat would do, sitting on his chair in the UN offices and trying to be as good a politician as possible, with pressures from all sides.. the questions has to be seen from thepoint of view of people who suffer during all this time..peolple of kosovo are stolen from their freedom, set to serve others on their own land , in a real apartheid, managed by the serbs... you have to see the story of the balkans to know why such a break up was non-.avoidabble, even between people of the same religion (croats and serbes i.e. both christians but catholics Vs. orthodox), not simply because albanians are muslims. this is the truth and you can't fight this. No m,atter what the serbes do, even oif they start a new crime againt humanity and try to erase labanians from the face of earth, they wil never succeed!!! We are with you kosovars!! you are not alone, men are made to be free!
MaxStirner
supjapscrapper wrote:
Thanks for the link to the poll max, I was able to put my vote in! Well I have a n opposite opinion to yours. You regard thigs as a typical bureaucrat would do, sitting on his chair in the UN offices and trying to be as good a politician as possible, with pressures from all sides.. the questions has to be seen from thepoint of view of people who suffer during all this time..peolple of kosovo are stolen from their freedom, set to serve others on their own land , in a real apartheid, managed by the serbs... you have to see the story of the balkans to know why such a break up was non-.avoidabble, even between people of the same religion (croats and serbes i.e. both christians but catholics Vs. orthodox), not simply because albanians are muslims. this is the truth and you can't fight this. No m,atter what the serbes do, even oif they start a new crime againt humanity and try to erase labanians from the face of earth, they wil never succeed!!! We are with you kosovars!! you are not alone, men are made to be free!

Certainly "the questions has to be seen from thepoint of view of people who suffer during all this time", but not exclusively. It is not so much that I see this matter too bureaucratically, I believe I see it, not being directly involved, rather more objectively and perhaps with a bit of foresight. By your standards, there would today be hundreds* of emerging nations, most of them utterly incapable of either surviving or governing themselves. Are you really prepared to accept this, including the potential for strife if not all-out wars which would result? The battle for resources or developed areas alone, would be enough to light any of these powder kegs.

I would hope that we are perhaps reaching a point where international organizations slowly begin to come of age and are not simply forums to sound off in. If we insist in attempting to solve problems unilaterally, perhaps even by use of force, then we would have learned nothing from the last one hundred years.

* = No, I haven't counted them, but I am confident I could easily compile a list of ethnic groups demanding independence. Native populations in North America alone would make up a few dozen, not to mention the more prominent ones in Africa, Asia and the Pacific.
ptfrances
In my mind, Kosovo could create a new state together with Albania. These two countries have a similar culture and a similar language so they could one single state
supjapscrapper
MaxStirner wrote:


I would hope that we are perhaps reaching a point where international organizations slowly begin to come of age and are not simply forums to sound off in. If we insist in attempting to solve problems unilaterally, perhaps even by use of force, then we would have learned nothing from the last one hundred years.

* = No, I haven't counted them, but I am confident I could easily compile a list of ethnic groups demanding independence. Native populations in North America alone would make up a few dozen, not to mention the more prominent ones in Africa, Asia and the Pacific.


I get your point, but believe me, I am not speaking about any separatists like the basque separatists in spain and France, the corsican speratists in France, or the hundreds (see, I agree) all over the world. When people resolve to violence to make the voice of some minoroty heard, this leads us to utter anarchy and it may signal the end of modern civilizations... This is no good. But what I mean is that when you have a situatio like the one in Kosovo, where people are simply asserved by another ethnic group, and moreover in thi sspecial case, from a very different and historically opponent religion, this can do no good. Especially when people stand up and reclamate their independance, freedom.

What you are talking about are separatist groups that when they are dumb enough to request independence while not being able to sustain it by themselves, and where there is no special reason why these people would need this independence, simply ask for it. there are thoudsands of tribes living together in the same country, sometimes tens of different ethnic groups living as one country as is the case is most central african countries. And this all over the world. They don't ask for independence, cause they know that together with their fellow country men they are strong. This is not the case of Kosovo.
supjapscrapper
ptfrances wrote:
In my mind, Kosovo could create a new state together with Albania. These two countries have a similar culture and a similar language so they could one single state


Kosovo is not only similar to albania.... this sows me how little most people know about the history of the balkans region and the religions there...

kosovo inhabitants ARE ALL ALBANIANS. Albanians are an ethnic group, like arabs, persians, truks, caucasians...etc. And Kosovo people are all muslim, just like Alabnians, and Bosnia Herzegovina (well at least 50% of it). Actually the countries there have been designed after WWII, and were on purpose not accurate. Kosovo is simply the albanian territory that was under serbian governance since the days of Tito.
MaxStirner
supjapscrapper wrote:
... What you are talking about are separatist groups that when they are dumb enough to request independence while not being able to sustain it by themselves, and where there is no special reason why these people would need this independence, simply ask for it. there are thoudsands of tribes living together in the same country, sometimes tens of different ethnic groups living as one country as is the case is most central african countries. And this all over the world. They don't ask for independence, cause they know that together with their fellow country men they are strong. This is not the case of Kosovo.

I'm reasonably certain that most members of a given separatist group would argue in exactly the same way you are doing, but of course on their behalf. I am not even denying that some of these ethnic groups, including the Kosovo, deserve independence, some most probably do. All I am saying is that we need a structured way of going about these things. If all it takes, is simply to proclaim independence, we are just inviting grief.
akshar
If someone wants to become independent they should do it peacefully.
deanhills
Seems to be a very sensitive issue, almost like a chess game. Looks as though when the war ended that it did not really end but that the conflict had just gone into remission. It's flared up again, wrong move to have moved for independence from Serbia, like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Hopefully the reaction will make the West a little more vigilant. Lots of skill needed here. Will be sad if war resumes again. So much racial hatred, really very sad.
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