Some people may disagree with me but, in my opinion, it doesn't matter if human activity is the cause of Global Warming/Climate Change OR if we are experiencing a natural climate change cycle. The fact is; It is happening.
Climate changes have happened in the past, many times. Lush tropical areas have become deserts. Temperate areas have become frozen, then when the ice retreated, they returned to temperate. One theory is that climate change is one of the biggest causes of extinction. (Other than humans).
If there is something we can do to change it, or stop it, then I feel it is in our best interest to do so. Take a moment, as I did to visit the web site below. It has maps of the US and the world showing the effects of a rise in sea level of 1 meter (3.38 feet), 3 meters (9.84 feet), 10 meters (32.80 feet) 30 meters (98.45 feet) and 100 meters (328.08 feet)
At just 1 meter, a little over 3 feet, a huge part of south Florida will be underwater, the Florida Keys will be underwater, New Orleans will be underwater, as will as a great deal of Louisiana.
At 10 meters, Savana, Georgia is underwater, Houston, Texas is at the new coastline and only the very center most part of Florida is still above water.
At 30 meters, all that remains of Florida are a few islands, Houston is underwater, Richamond, Virginia, Philadelphia and Boston are getting their feet wet.
At 100 meters, the water from the Gulf of Mexico reaches all the way to the Illinois state border! Memphis, Tenn, is underwater.
Take a look. It really doesn't matter if it's our (human-kind's) fault, or a natural cycle, the results will be catastrophic.
A great deal of the interior of Florida is agricultural, used for growing crops and raising cattle. With Florida gone, Louisiana gone, plus a big chunk of our central farm land underwater we aren't going to be able to produce as much food.
Oh, and just one more thing, If you think the world is crowded now, just wait until all the people that are displaced, when the water rises, have to find some place else to live!!!
http://vrstudio.buffalo.edu/~depape/warming/east.html
I have a super slow dial up connection and if I can wait for these maps to download, so can you.
Time to think, 
Chad I do disagree on whether it's important that we have a hand in how climate change is happening; it's important in that we've increased the rate of change outside of the natural cycle. The fact that the change is occurring... that's hunky dory; but it's happening so much faster due to our activities. Add to that the fact that most of our activities that are impacting this accelerated rate are non-essential, but are lifestyle choices made for convenience and there's a whole pile of ethical issues at work. We have the ability to reduce our impacts in accelerating change, but by and large we choose not to.
To use an analogy that is designed to work on an emotional level, since most people can't or won't grasp factual analogies, it's akin to watching someone being held prisoner and starved to death while munching down on a greasy burger and looking at the key to their cell hanging on the wall. We can change what's happening with some fairly minor behaviours, but we choose not to.
No, we can't stop climate change, but we can do what we can to return the rate to something closer to the natural phase.
While I was alarmed at all of the news about global warming, I really don't think we have anything to worry about for a while. I recently read that the sun is moving toward a minimum in it's sun spot cycle that will lower temperatures about as much as the mini-ice age in the middle ages did. We should start to see this in the next twenty years or so. I think the effects of this and global warming will cancel each other out. We will receive less energy from the sun, but the increased greenhouse gasses will hold in more of what we do get.
For more info on the effects of sun-spot minimums, google the dalton and maunder minimums.
What I don't understand is why everyone seems to think doing something is so urgent...
Even at an accelerated rate, it would still take decades at the very least, centuries more likely. Low lying areas could be evacuated in plenty of time, in the worst case.
In the mean time, we have bigger and more urgent problems.
| ocalhoun wrote: |
What I don't understand is why everyone seems to think doing something is so urgent...
Even at an accelerated rate, it would still take decades at the very least, centuries more likely. Low lying areas could be evacuated in plenty of time, in the worst case.
In the mean time, we have bigger and more urgent problems. |
i doubt that urgency really fuels the advocates of change so much as frustration does. The way they see it, the changes required are trivially small - and contrary to popular claims do not mean a reduction in the quality of our lives, just that the way we do things will change; it could actually turn out that we end up with better lifestyles, more ease and comfort in our lives and more wealth to spread around - and the cost of doing nothing is so monumentally huge in the long run... it's simply bloody stupid not to do anything about it. So these people are standing on the side watching the rest of us, going "what the in hell is wrong with you people?" in bewilderment. Yet despite low-to-zero costs of change (if done intelligently) and the enormously high cost of doing nothing... we're doing nothing. It just makes no sense at all, and they're probably fed up with the lot of us for our stupidity more than they're concerned about impending doom.
The sad part is that even the AGW deniers agree that we're a wasteful and polluting society - they only disagree on whether that is causing an environmental change or not. If we could cut our civilization's waste everyone benefits, whether AGW is happening or not. This is not rocket science. It's bloody high school math!
Now you may say we have bigger and more urgent problems now, and that is true. But if AGW continues at this rate it won't be true forever. Eventually, unless we do something, AGW will be our biggest and most urgent problem... and the longer we wait to do something about it, the harder and costlier it will be. At this stage, doing something about it costs a pittance (and may even give us a return on our investment in a few short years!), and will probably give us benefits we can channel toward solving those other, bigger and more urgent problems. To put it in a simple sentence - if we invest an intelligent effort into reducing our civilization's environmental impact, we will avoid enormous problems in the long term, and make our society healthier and more efficient in the short term, giving us benefits we can use toward solving our other problems.I would also like to add that saying there are bigger problems doesn't give us a pass for ignoring littler problems. Also, while global warming may not seem like a big problem now, what we do now affects how big a problem it will be 200 years from now. And 200 years from now it will be a BIG problem.
Indi is right on about the frustration that people who are 'in the know' feel. Not that they are all role models when it comes to adjusting their own lifestyles. Compounding the frustration is the recognition that conservation efforts could have non-AGW related benefits in the very short term. It's just that some people think SO short term that nothing is happening. If we reduce consumption and the economy sees a boost in 5 years as a result, we'd have more resources to argue about diverting to other big problems that we are facing.
Nobody wants to do anything or make any changes. What's even more frustrating is the tendency for people to make the exact wrong kind of change. Take the new ethanol economy, for example... The automotive industry has just been the absolute worst at dealing with AGW, by and large.
You guys seem to be talking about a point that is discussed completely by a man whose YouTube User Name is wonderingmind42. He has a series of videos that contain almost every argument there is, and certainly every argument I can think of. Check him out, and you won't at all be disappointed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF_anaVcCXg | Wolf1918 wrote: |
Some people may disagree with me but, in my opinion, it doesn't matter if human activity is the cause of Global Warming/Climate Change OR if we are experiencing a natural climate change cycle. The fact is; It is happening.
Climate changes have happened in the past, many times. Lush tropical areas have become deserts. Temperate areas have become frozen, then when the ice retreated, they returned to temperate. One theory is that climate change is one of the biggest causes of extinction. (Other than humans).
If there is something we can do to change it, or stop it, then I feel it is in our best interest to do so. Take a moment, as I did to visit the web site below. It has maps of the US and the world showing the effects of a rise in sea level of 1 meter (3.38 feet), 3 meters (9.84 feet), 10 meters (32.80 feet) 30 meters (98.45 feet) and 100 meters (328.08 feet)
At just 1 meter, a little over 3 feet, a huge part of south Florida will be underwater, the Florida Keys will be underwater, New Orleans will be underwater, as will as a great deal of Louisiana.
At 10 meters, Savana, Georgia is underwater, Houston, Texas is at the new coastline and only the very center most part of Florida is still above water.
At 30 meters, all that remains of Florida are a few islands, Houston is underwater, Richamond, Virginia, Philadelphia and Boston are getting their feet wet.
At 100 meters, the water from the Gulf of Mexico reaches all the way to the Illinois state border! Memphis, Tenn, is underwater.
Take a look. It really doesn't matter if it's our (human-kind's) fault, or a natural cycle, the results will be catastrophic.
A great deal of the interior of Florida is agricultural, used for growing crops and raising cattle. With Florida gone, Louisiana gone, plus a big chunk of our central farm land underwater we aren't going to be able to produce as much food.
Oh, and just one more thing, If you think the world is crowded now, just wait until all the people that are displaced, when the water rises, have to find some place else to live!!!
http://vrstudio.buffalo.edu/~depape/warming/east.html
I have a super slow dial up connection and if I can wait for these maps to download, so can you.
Time to think,
Chad |
There is a tendency in mankind that the Earth is only for human being. We never care ablout the poor animals. Animals are more sensitive tha human but more unsecure. It is our responsibiliity to take care of animals and their rights. Nature balance depend upon animals too.we got to do something about this global warming.. I lived in a humid country, so, with global warming rising, its getting more humid.. please help if u can..
| ocalhoun wrote: |
What I don't understand is why everyone seems to think doing something is so urgent...
Even at an accelerated rate, it would still take decades at the very least, centuries more likely. Low lying areas could be evacuated in plenty of time, in the worst case.
In the mean time, we have bigger and more urgent problems. |
Because there's absolutely zero reason to wait until we HAVE to do something.I don’t really know what’s going on with the weather nowadays. I live in Buenos Aires (Argentina) and something really strange is happening since last year. We get snow in the capital city and temperatures below 0 degrees Celsius, that never really happened before. Something is changing for sure. We are in Winter actually, and in some days from below 0 we get a radical change to 20/25 Celsius.
The world is changing, and I’m pretty afraid of it.
I live in the UK and if we end up with the climate of Spain then great!
If you haven't seen this already you must watch 'The Great Gloabal Warming Swindle" you can get it on DVD but here it also is on youtube:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=snLIJ6SwQSc
