It was a theory and now it's becoming a fact : the Earth will reverse its polls.
How about that ?
Facts : Most of the pigeons sent to Athens to mark the beginning of the Olympic games were lost on their way although they're known for their sense of orientation base on the magnetic line fields.
In South Carolina the ospreys are flying disoriented from Est to West (instead of North to South)
The satellites over the South Atlantic had already problems.
Gary Glatzmaier says that the magnetic field intensity of the planet lowers fast enough and a lots of researchers shows that a new poll reversing is coming. This happens every 13000 years from the last measurements. The most recent polls reversing detected in the geologic mantle is from almost 13000 years. So we can expect in the years to come to witness a new polls reversing.
So what can we expect?
I let you debate on this
December 21st, 2012. 
I watched a documentary a few weeks ago about this. Apparently when rock cools it takes a magnetic signature from the earths magnetic field at that point in time. The scientist was working at a volcano in hawaii and was taking rock samples going back a long way. I forget at this point how long. But he proved that a magnetic switch of our poles was something that happens on earth every x amount of years, again I forget what x should = :p Perhaps I should have recorded it 
Depending on what you beleive. There could be no effect on us or it could cause massive geo-physical upset on earth and kill many of us.
Peace =) | loonix wrote: |
Depending on what you beleive. There could be no effect on us or it could cause massive geo-physical upset on earth and kill many of us.
Peace =) |
So if you believe there will be a disaster then it will happen? LOL. You have already, correctly, noted that this is not a new phenomenon. Why would you think that there will be a massive 'geo-physical' upset? What does that even mean?I seriously doubt lost pigeons and ospreys have are caused by an in progress pole reversal. Was this in an article you read last week? Perhaps published on Tuesday?
Even if the poles were to completely reverse it will be long after our life times probably. Something that big cant just all the sudden happen its a slow progressive change. And for those who don't know much about orienteering magnetic north does move a little every year so obviously something is happening,
I was speaking with a high school Geology teacher two weeks ago, and he mentioned the mounting evidence that another flip of Earth's magnetic poles was about to take place (though "about" in geophysical timescales seemed to be somewhere in the range of 10,000 - 20,000 years).
I believe in the evidence that it has done so before, and may do so again, but can anyone tell me what causes the Earth's magnetic field in the first place, and what phenomenon would cause the field to flip?
I've heard that the best guess going around right now is that it has something to do with the rotation of the molten, mostly Iron core of the Earth.
I'm trying to read more about the Magnetosphere on wikipedia, and this following blurb caught my attention:
"The Earth's field changes in strength and position. The two poles wander independently of each other and are not at directly opposite positions on the globe. Currently the magnetic south pole is farther from the geographic south pole than the magnetic north pole is from the geographic north pole."
This totally boggles my conception of what the Earth's magnetic field SHOULD behave like.
Aha! Now I'm finally getting to the meat of things:
" . . . Therefore the Earth's magnetic field is caused not by magnetized iron deposits, but mostly by electric currents in the liquid outer core."
Man, the Universe is so much more complicated a place than I can understand . . .
Anyway, say hi to your moms for me,
Love,
Uwe
| Bikerman wrote: |
| Why would you think that there will be a massive 'geo-physical' upset? What does that even mean? |
I never stated I thought there will be massive 'geo-physical' upset but did find this @ http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/geophysical
geophysical
adjective
of or concerned with geophysics; "geophysical sciences"
Happy to helpI know what geophysical means - what I don't know is what you mean by a geophysical upset. How do you suppose a pole reversal will alter the physics of the earth and kill many people ? I understand that you didn't say it would - but you said it was a something that could happen - according to what you believe. I am interested to know who believes this and what they base that belief on.
Last edited by Bikerman on Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:32 pm; edited 1 time in total | Bikerman wrote: |
| but you said it was a something that could happen - according to what you believe. |
Demonstrate where I said this and I will then answer your question. | loonix wrote: |
| Bikerman wrote: | | but you said it was a something that could happen - according to what you believe. |
Demonstrate where I said this and I will then answer your question. |
| loonix wrote: |
| Depending on what you beleive. There could be no effect on us or it could cause massive geo-physical upset on earth and kill many of us. |
OK? | Bikerman wrote: |
| loonix wrote: | | Bikerman wrote: | | but you said it was a something that could happen - according to what you believe. |
Demonstrate where I said this and I will then answer your question. |
| loonix wrote: | | Depending on what you beleive. There could be no effect on us or it could cause massive geo-physical upset on earth and kill many of us. |
OK? |
How does that state what I actually believe? | loonix wrote: |
| Bikerman wrote: | | loonix wrote: | | Bikerman wrote: | | but you said it was a something that could happen - according to what you believe. |
Demonstrate where I said this and I will then answer your question. |
| loonix wrote: | | Depending on what you beleive. There could be no effect on us or it could cause massive geo-physical upset on earth and kill many of us. |
OK? |
How does that state what I actually believe? |
I think you are confusing the use of the word 'you'. Understandable, but it was you that used it first and I simply re-quoted it. I should have said 'depending on what ONE believes'. Perhaps that is clearer.
I wish to know who believes this - I did not mean to say you believe it - and if you read my previous posting I think that this is pretty clear. As I said at the end of that posting | Quote: |
| I am interested to know who believes this and what they base that belief on. |
That should be clear enough.
So what geophysical upsets could arise and how could they kill many of us? | ovidiuo wrote: |
| So what can we expect? |
My reply was thus...
| loonix wrote: |
| Depending on what you believe. There could be no effect on us or it could cause massive geo-physical upset on earth and kill many of us. |
So taking what I said...
Draw a horizontal line on a piece of paper. We can call this the (x) axis. Lets name this line 'What can we expect?' If we apply a scale to this line, I don't know lets pick a number. For this example I will choose 37.5 purely because its a number I like. Feel free to substitute this number for any of your own choosing. So we now have a line numbered from 0 to 37.5 with 0 residing at the left hand side and 37.5 residing at the right. Okay so to determine what can we expect I will take the best case and worst case scenario's that I am aware is out there and apply those to 0 and 37.5 - I choose 'No effect' and apply this to 0, I then choose 'massive geo-physical' upset‡ and apply this to 37.5 - Am I not correct to think we can expect something between 0 and 37.5? In hindsight it would have been prudent for me to add 'or somewhere in between' to my statement.
You can chew over my posts all day long if you wish but I am sure we both have plenty other more constructive things to be doing Bikerman?
‡Dan Burisch tried to tell us 2012 would give us firstly a magnetic switch of the poles and then a geo-physical switch causing massive tsunami, earthquake and volcanic activity on earth which has the potential to wipe out 2/3rds of the population on earth. Source: http://www.projectcamelot.org/dan_burisch.html - If, Bikerman, you are aware of a more fitting worse case scenario than this then I will be happy to extend he scale of my example beyond 37.5 or even rebrand your worse case scenario 37.5 and renumber my line accordingly.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisitaion! - PythonThat's an awfully long (and irrelevant) non-answer to a simple question.
In short, your answer is that Dan Burisch believes that we could experience massive geophysical upset. Fine - that takes a sentence, not an essay.
Given that Dan Burisch is a wacko, I don't think we need to loose much sleep over his views. I thought you might have meant that someone with some actual scientific bona-fides might be hypothesising a disaster.
I could hypothsise that the shift in poles will cause a black hole to form just outside Kansas city. You could then shift your x-axis to accomodate this new possibility. Hey, why stop there? Why not hypothesise that the entire universe will vanish as a result - shift your x-axis accordingly?
The point of a science forum is to discuss science, not to discuss wacko nonsense. Burisch is a fraud - I'm not sure whether he actually believes his own nonsense or not, but he certainly misrepresents himself as a scientist - he claims to be a PhD Microbiologist, but:
| Quote: |
| Burisch is alleged to have attended the State University of New York (SUNY) and completed a doctoral degree in 1989. He also claims that the government funded his education. This is widely disputed as Burisch does not have a Ph.D. from SUNY and, during the time he is alleged to have been earning his Ph.D., was employed as a parole officer with Nevada state. It is there that he met his current wife and alleged "government handler," Deborah Burisch, who was reportedly a parole/probation client. |
http://tinwiki.org/wiki/Dan_Burisch | Bikerman wrote: |
| The point of a science forum is to discuss science, not to discuss wacko nonsense. |
At http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-88024.html you state...
...I follow the link and I find science and not wacko nonsense? - Hypocritical?
Lets refer to forum rules @ http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-13011.html
From what you say I am breaking rule 2a
| Quote: |
| (2a) Posts and Topics are to be made in the relevant forum. We request that you read the Forum Descriptions before posting. If you consistently post in the wrong forum you will be given a warning. |
However if thats the case then your breaking rule 2b
| Quote: |
| (2b) Back-seat moderating is not allowed. If you witness someone break a rule or you think (s)he did, please send a private message to a moderator or administrator containing a link to the offending post or topic. |
If the mods wish to warn/edit/move/delete my posts because I am, as you as so strongly believe, mis-using this forum then please follow the forum rules stated earlier.
Presently the only person with any issue over what I post is you, largely I can only presume due to my own posts conflicting with your own theories and beliefs.I think it was fairly self-evident that my posting was satirical, maybe even a touch sarcastic, but just in case you didn't get it - MY POSTING WAS SATIRICAL. Satire is not outlawed and if you read the rest of the thread you will see that I actually discussed the issue of the moon landings in a slightly less satirical vein. A sense of humour is allowed, even in science.
If your mention of Burisch was satire then I must have missed it - fair enough.
I don't care if your postings conflict with my own opinions, what I do care about is evidence.
I have not tried to moderate your postings, I simply pointed out that this is a science forum, not a forum for discussing wacko theories. If you want to post wacko nonsense then there is nothing I can do about it, other than to point it out, since I have no power of veto.
| Bikerman wrote: |
| I simply pointed out that this is a science forum, not a forum for discussing wacko theories. If you want to post wacko nonsense then there is nothing I can do about it, other than to point it out, since I have no power of veto. |
That tells me you think my posts are in the wrong forum, make your mind up.
Where in this thread have I discussed or presented 'wacko theories' as fact?
I made an errant posting, which I freely admit, in one of your threads regarding the moon landings, you clearly took exception to that and since then have proceeded to jump all over my posts there and elsewhere.
You give a new slant on forum posting - posting is allowed if Bikerman agrees with it - get over yourself already!Well, raising Burisch in a discussion of shifting poles is raising wacko nonsense. I didn't say that you believed it (you haven't really taken a position as far as I can see).
I'm not singling you out for special treatment - I frequently 'jump all over' postings which contain wacko theories, pseudo-science and fallacies. That's basically how a science forum works - we try to test a hypothesis to destruction and if it survives then great. Taking criticism personally is missing the point.
The point of this thread was to discuss pole-reversal and what, if any, consequences will result. If you want to raise Burisch and his wacko theories then there is nothing I can do about that, other than to point out that he has no scientific credibility.
If you want to discuss his 'theories' in detail then go ahead - I can't stop you. If you don't then why raise it?
Anyway - back to science.
Currently the field-strength of Earth's magnetism is diminishing (as well as wandering, which it does constantly). If it continues to diminish then the best estimates are that we could have a pole-reversal somewhere between 3000AD and 4000AD (certainly NOT 2012). The wide margin of error is down to the lack of a complete theory of the mechanism. We know that there have been many such reversals in history - probably thousands of them.
(source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal )
Some people think that as the field-strength gets weaker that we could suffer from increased levels of cosmic radiation which could cause cancers. This view, however, is contentious since there does not appear to be any support for it in the fossil record. In fact there does not seem to be any correlation between previous reversals and extinction events.
More worrying for us might be the technological implications. Radio, satellite and other electromagnetic communications technology could be affected by a pole reversal. It is likely, however, that any reversal will be a gradual event (decades or centuries rather than months) which should allow plenty of time to adapt. i'm looking forward to christmas 2012
Yes, the poles shifting will have the worst effect on the components of our technology that use the Earth's magnetic field for positioning or calibration. The continents are not likely to move (more than they are now) and the dormant volcanoes are not likely to all start up in unison.
Your compass will not point in the same direction but who uses them now anyways (or at least, who'll be using them when the poles switch)?
The poles switch all the time (on geological timescales) and as far as I'm aware there have been no extinctions linked to the switch inthe past, so how this alledged Microbiologist can predict 2/3 of the population will die is beyond me! (Unless of course he meant that we'd all get lost in the woods cos our compasses didn't work correctly).
On your scale I suspect that we'd be in single digits, most probably 1 or 2 and only due to the inconvienence (extra programming required for satellites or something) but I'm not an expert (although would guess I know significantly more than Burisch).
David.
| powers1983 wrote: |
| Unless of course he meant that we'd all get lost in the woods cos our compasses didn't work correctly |
Absolute gold =) | HalfBloodPrince wrote: |
| December 21st, 2012. |
Lol, ya I watched that show on discovery, was a very interesting show scientist and prophets say that doomsday 2012 could be caused by the planets aligning with the center of the galaxy and the earth's magnetic polls will switch causing major global effects such as glacial melting (global warming?or?polar shift) things would die and go extinct etc.... so iono plus are governments actually going to research this and tell us that we are going to die soon from a polar shift no lol because there would be chaos so they'll just keep it secret and do their best to stop it.
If they fail then oh well... controversy.. | cr3ativ3 wrote: |
| HalfBloodPrince wrote: | | December 21st, 2012. |
Lol, ya I watched that show on discovery, was a very interesting show scientist and prophets say that doomsday 2012 could be caused by the planets aligning with the center of the galaxy and the earth's magnetic polls will switch causing major global effects such as glacial melting (global warming?or?polar shift) things would die and go extinct etc.... so iono plus are governments actually going to research this and tell us that we are going to die soon from a polar shift no lol because there would be chaos so they'll just keep it secret and do their best to stop it.
If they fail then oh well... controversy.. |
WTF center of the GALAXY??? Where is that??? Well don't think that we go through the center of the galaxy anytime soon. Or align with it. whatever. anyway.
The polar change will go quite fast and not believing it will go fast won't make it any slower I read it takes decades.
