According to one of the stalwarts of democracy, CIA director General Michael Hayden:
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"They are bringing operatives into that region for training -- operatives that wouldn't attract your attention if they were going through the customs line at Dulles (airport outside Washington) with you when you were coming back from overseas," Hayden said during an interview on NBC's television show Meet the Press.
"(They) look western (and) would be able to come into this country without attracting the kinds of attention that others might," Hayden said, without offering further details.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080330/ts_nm/usa_cia_hayden_dc
In my mind, America has been settled not so long ago by people from all over the world so there is a huge racial mix of people calling themselves now Americans. Should they be offended by remarks like that? Or does he think that all terrorists run around with turbans on their heads and AK's over their shoulders?
I think guys like that don't deserve to represent the American public on an official podium.
Cheers I don't believe he has mentioned what he thinks terrorists look like.
He merely states that these people would not fit the "public" perception of a terrorist. And we cannot deny that the American public, and the western public in general for that matter, does have a general perception of terrorists as being probably of middle eastern appearance, certainly not from what is mistakenly considered the general mainstreams of American ethnicity.
I agree that this is not a valid or even logical assumption, but it does seem to be a common one therefore his statement is completely realistic given this state of affairs .
| icecool wrote: |
In my mind, America has been settled not so long ago by people from all over the world so there is a huge racial mix of people calling themselves now Americans. Should they be offended by remarks like that? Or does he think that all terrorists run around with turbans on their heads and AK's over their shoulders?
I think guys like that don't deserve to represent the American public on an official podium.
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You are clearly overreacting to ... nothing!
I agree with most of what paul_indo said. But I don't agree with "this is not a valid or even logical assumption" part. On the contrary, on a personal level this is a logical and useful assumption. In spite of the political correctness crap, some degree of stereotyping is good (human mind needs categories to do logic easily). Stereotyping gets bad only when taken to the extremes (as do many other good things when taken to the extremes) and people are judged MAINLY by the category to which they belong and not primarily by their own personal traits and qualities.
On the other hand, the authorities should not use or encourage popular "stereotypes" in their policies. But this is not the case here.I do agree with most of what others have said previously.
Although yes, governmental officials should not be encouraging stereotyping, but really, people's first judgment of someone is what he/she first seems and if what they saw fits, or not fit, any stereotypes in their mind.
So making sure that the agents are as "non-descriptive" as possible and fit in with the rest of the people is pretty important. Especially since we have an embedded stereotype of say, terrorists, or special agents look like.
Although I do believe stereotyping is bad, even if not taken to the extreme, it's something unavoidable.
As for being offended. I'm an Asian-American and I don't feel offended in the least by what was said in that quote since, do note, he didn't say "they look American" but rather, "western" and the general consensus is that westerners = Caucasians. Nothing strange or offensive about that.
I (not so casually) happen to look vagely caucasian and got screamed at and stuff when I last visited the DC. I don't believe it's the strongest factor in the current screw-tourism-be-safer policy.
| smarter wrote: |
| icecool wrote: | In my mind, America has been settled not so long ago by people from all over the world so there is a huge racial mix of people calling themselves now Americans. Should they be offended by remarks like that? Or does he think that all terrorists run around with turbans on their heads and AK's over their shoulders?
I think guys like that don't deserve to represent the American public on an official podium.
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You are clearly overreacting to ... nothing!
I agree with most of what paul_indo said. But I don't agree with "this is not a valid or even logical assumption" part. On the contrary, on a personal level this is a logical and useful assumption. In spite of the political correctness crap, some degree of stereotyping is good (human mind needs categories to do logic easily). Stereotyping gets bad only when taken to the extremes (as do many other good things when taken to the extremes) and people are judged MAINLY by the category to which they belong and not primarily by their own personal traits and qualities.
On the other hand, the authorities should not use or encourage popular "stereotypes" in their policies. But this is not the case here. |
Homegrown terrorism is a much bigger problem than you think. In other words, people who are fully "western looking" should be monitored just much as someone of Middle Eastern appearance. This war has had much "blowback" in terms of popularizing "terrorism." The bomb in the NY City military recruiting office is just one of many examples of homegrown terrorism in the west. I don't think the stereotype that we should watch people with a Middle Eastern appearance more than the general looking Westerner is logical nor helpful to our situation. | smarter wrote: |
But I don't agree with "this is not a valid or even logical assumption" part. On the contrary, on a personal level this is a logical and useful assumption. In spite of the political correctness crap, some degree of stereotyping is good (human mind needs categories to do logic easily). Stereotyping gets bad only when taken to the extremes (as do many other good things when taken to the extremes) and people are judged MAINLY by the category to which they belong and not primarily by their own personal traits and qualities.
On the other hand, the authorities should not use or encourage popular "stereotypes" in their policies. But this is not the case here. |
I think you are right about this on a personal level. What I meant was that it is not logical or valid to assume someone should be screened as a possible terrorist on the basis of appearance.
I think that many terrorists don't fit this public perception of appearance and therefore screening at airports etc needs to be done on a more factual related basis.Well, to some extent this will fight the stereotyped look that is associated with terrorists. I'm sure a lot of people will be glad of that.
Although it just shows how "far" Al-Qaeda is trying is willing to go...
I think this guy was just trying to clear the air for the general public on identifying terrorists. It is a well known fact that the terrorist who carries out an attack doesn't match Osama's description even a wee bit. I think the terrorists have more brain than what the general public usually gives them credit for, and their operatives are well trained, almost spending a major part of their lives assimilating themselves into the society which they eventually attach.. Unfortunately, if only they had enough logical thinking to see through the brainwashing and look at the bigger imports of their action.. Well, that is going a little bit tangential and off topic.. All said, I think the guy is pretty much right in giving that statement.
