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Rights of the parent ~ rights of the child

 


Indi
One of the most difficult social adjustments of the 20th century was the growing involvement of social, scientific and legal interests in child-rearing. Before the 20th, a parent could more or less do whatever they wanted with their children with only very limited restrictions that prevented wanton cruelty. Starting in the 20th, things changed; all of a sudden, laws started to emerge that severely limited the choices a parent could make in how they reared their child.

It is a well-known and well-established fact that the influences of early childhood set the tone for a person's entire life. A young child does not have the knowledge to decide what direction they wish to take, so it is necessary at that early stage to have guidance. Traditionally, parents have been the almost sole source of that guidance. Do you think they should be?

A parent could theoretically condition a child to whatever ends the parent desires (and in some cases, this has been done). They could choose to doctor the facts the child is taught, and even teach them outright lies (some parents opt to home-school their children for this very reason). They could imbue them with prejudices that have been passed down for generations. All of this happens today.

On the flip side, if parents were not allowed to raise their children according to their beliefs, then entire cultures and traditions could disappear in a single generation. Children would be indoctrinated by state or socially approved norms, creating a drab conformity, and stifling diversity. Opposition could be easily trained away, and an entire generation of almost blind followers to whatever the current social agendas are could be created. It happens today, in a limited sense (for example, state schooling in certain countries serves that purpose), and it has happened in the past.


Rights of the parent
  • Does a parent have the right to raise their child the way they see fit?
  • Do they have the right to teach their child their culture, value and beliefs?
  • How far does that right go?


Rights of the child
  • Does a child have the right to be raised according to the values of the society they're born into (whether or not those are the parent's values)?
  • Do they have the right to the best education and child-rearing techniques available (even if that education and those techniques contradict the parent's will)?
  • Who should have the right to determine how to best raise a child?
liljp617
Razz I'm not into the whole writing a research paper on here, so I don't know how much I'll add. However, I did saw this in the "Homosexuality & Adoption" thread and quite liked it.

icecool wrote:
i am 55 years old and never had kids - by choice.
i was orphaned when i was 15, placed under a supervision order of my 18 year old half sister - she couldn't give a toss what happened to me.
i tried to stay on the straight and narrow - not always successful.
the one thing i see here so far is that the kids view or situation doesn't seem to play any part at all.
i have always wondered why in todays so-called "modern" societies we are required to license just about anything - from tv over dogs to guns and cars. to do some quite simple things we have to learn, sit examinations and have to showa license when we're asked by the appropriate authority.
society makes sure we have proven that we know how to do certain things like driving cars, look after elderly as a profession etc.
and still any 2 people of the opposite sex can go and have a kid.
no tests.
no training.
no gudance.
no wonder there are so many misfits roaming the streets or even unwanted kids waiting for adoption.

i understand that the adoption process is quite rigorous - people are examined, checked out and tested before they are allowed to adopt.
as long as a kid is given care and love in a home, with guidance, shelter and food, encouragement and time spent - does it really matter if the parents are black white brown straight gay or whatever?
just give the kid your love and a chance to develop as a responsible person.

cheers


Particularly the bold part.
Indi
So you're saying that you don't think parents have the right to raise their child as they see fit? That in order for parents to have the privilege to raise a child, they must first pass certain requirements, and maintain certain standards, or they'll lose the privilege?
liljp617
I don't know if I would go as far to use the word "right" as I have no authority what so ever to give people rights. However, I would replace "right" with the word "should." I don't think parents should indoctrinate their children with religion, political views, ethical/social views, etc. until the child is really capable of analyzing what's being presented and making an at least halfway mature decision. I believe there are hundreds of millions of parents out there who are incapable of raising a child well and I think some type of cap needs to be put on any two people randomly having as many kids as they want as if it means nothing (there's plenty of that ideology going around in my opinion). I don't really think it would be bad for parents who are expecting a child to be required to attend a certain number of educational courses on raising a child/childcare before the baby is born. Doesn't seem too drastic of a requirement to me.

I just thought the quoted post was good because it pointed out the irony in our society. That we require people to take classes and tests to drive cars, degrees to do specific jobs, licenses to practice things like medicine, plumbing, and even owning a business....but we have absolutely no strict requirements for how another human life should be brought into this world and raised so that they can actually do well on their own. I mean, you can't really limit reproduction without interfering with the whole freedom ideology (another discussion entirely), so I think that's a slippery slope to get on. I just thought the post pointed out societal irony.
Indi
liljp617 wrote:
I don't know if I would go as far to use the word "right" as I have no authority what so ever to give people rights.

Nobody on Frihost is giving (or taking away) rights. ^_^;

But we are all responsible for the shape of the world we live in. It is up to us to decide what we will tolerate and what things are intolerable in a just world, and then do our best to see that we improve the chances of creating that just world (by voting, by speaking out, even just by talking to other people).

If we determine that it is immoral for parents to raise their children as they please, then we should - if we're courageous enough - speak out about it when we see it being done.

That, in a nutshell, is the "point" of philosophy.

liljp617 wrote:
However, I would replace "right" with the word "should." I don't think parents should indoctrinate their children with religion, political views, ethical/social views, etc. until the child is really capable of analyzing what's being presented and making an at least halfway mature decision. I believe there are hundreds of millions of parents out there who are incapable of raising a child well and I think some type of cap needs to be put on any two people randomly having as many kids as they want as if it means nothing (there's plenty of that ideology going around in my opinion). I don't really think it would be bad for parents who are expecting a child to be required to attend a certain number of educational courses on raising a child/childcare before the baby is born. Doesn't seem too drastic of a requirement to me.

I just thought the quoted post was good because it pointed out the irony in our society. That we require people to take classes and tests to drive cars, degrees to do specific jobs, licenses to practice things like medicine, plumbing, and even owning a business....but we have absolutely no strict requirements for how another human life should be brought into this world and raised so that they can actually do well on their own.

Sure, it's an interesting notion - but you have to think it all the way through, and not just stop at the "it would be neat if..." phase.

Let's say that whenever someone gets pregnant, they have to obtain a licence to raise that child (if they want to raise it, and if they don't already have a licence). In addition, anyone else that wants to take part in raising the child - usually the father, in a "standard" monogamous marriage situation - would have to get the licence, too.

So far, not bad, but it's only a start. In order for the licence to have meaning, it should be enforced - which means that someone should check every so often to make sure that the licensees are actually doing what they're supposed to be doing, and that they didn't just get the licence and then forget all about what they learned. This has pros and cons. Abuse - physical and psychological - inhuman living conditions, and all that will be spotted very quickly, which might spell the end of child abuse (more or less). This is a good thing, i suppose. On the other hand, a parent that is abusing the child might be motivated to abuse them even more to scare them into keeping their mouths shut (as is done today, where abusers have to coerce victim children to keep their mouths shut when talking to school counsellors). Also, a child that just wants to have their way might take advantage of the system, and report abuse, wasting time, money and ruining parents' lives and reputations. Of course, neither of those cons are insurmountable, but there may be others (that i can't think of now).

Also, what do you do about people who try to raise children without a licence? Take the kids away and force them to apply - keeping the kids in foster care until they get one? What if they refuse to get one? (If they try and simply fail, that would mean they're lousy parents, so no big loss there, right?)

And what do you do about people who either can't or can't be bothered to get a licence, but keep having kids anyway - churning them out once a year then dumping them on the system? We can't be expected to support that behaviour for too long (it's unfair on the system and the children), but what can we do about it, short of sterilization or imprisonment?

liljp617 wrote:
I mean, you can't really limit reproduction without interfering with the whole freedom ideology (another discussion entirely), so I think that's a slippery slope to get on.

Limiting reproduction is a question for another thread. This is not about controlling reproduction rights, it is about controlling upbringing rights.

Of course, if we figure out that the right thing to do is to limit upbringing rights, then questions arise about how to go about doing that with people that can't or won't meet the minimum standards. But if that happens, then you're talking about criminals. Literally. You're talking about people who want the right to abuse their children. Because if they want to raise them well, they shouldn't have a problem with working with the system, right? Is there anything wrong with taking away the reproductive rights of people who reproduce indiscriminately - to the point of harming their offspring?

(The previous paragraph makes a number of unstated assumptions, because going through them all would have made it a huge paragraph - a post by itself. But if you assume the system described is right, then those assumptions follow from it. If you don't assume the system is right, then it doesn't really matter. So that's why i didn't state them all explicitly.)

liljp617 wrote:
I just thought the post pointed out societal irony.

Pointing out the irony is supposed to be the first step in doing something about it.
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