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Reward for being quoted?





ocalhoun
This is just a little whimsical idea I had, but perhaps it has merit. I see that (with a few exceptions) most posts that are quoted are of the very best quality, either being very helpful, very informative, very controversial (making the topic more active), or very funny. The only exception to quoted posts being great posts is when a post is quoted just to point out how awful it is, which only happens rarely.

So, perhaps the points/frih$ system could use the number of times a post is quoted as a criteria for determining how good a post it was, and then reward the poster accordingly.
LukeakaDanish
I like the idea.

Generally speaking, you don't quote the OP though, so this person wouldn't reap this lucrative benefit Smile
singh.gurjeet
ocalhoun wrote:
This is just a little whimsical idea I had, but perhaps it has merit. I see that (with a few exceptions) most posts that are quoted are of the very best quality, either being very helpful, very informative, very controversial (making the topic more active), or very funny. The only exception to quoted posts being great posts is when a post is quoted just to point out how awful it is, which only happens rarely.

So, perhaps the points/frih$ system could use the number of times a post is quoted as a criteria for determining how good a post it was, and then reward the poster accordingly.



I would say a nice idea... Get rewarded for being quotable.

But I don't think the software behind these forums would be able to d that. Even if it were, the quote blocks are not a reliable source of who got quoted how many times.


Okay... I have quoted you.

edit by rvec: please quote with
Code:
[quote] and [/quote]
You used <quote> like in html Razz
LukeakaDanish
singh.gurjeet wrote:
Okay... I have quoted you.


No....no you haven't Wink.

Is it possible to do within phpbb? Ofcourse! - I bet I could do it.

Is it unreliable? Well maybe, but perhaps it would be relevant to allow the quoter to specify either +1 (good post - reward this user!), 0 (quoted just for the sake of it) or -1 (quotes coz the post sucks).

Then it wouldn't be unreliable anymore Smile
ocalhoun
LukeakaDanish wrote:
I like the idea.

Generally speaking, you don't quote the OP though, so this person wouldn't reap this lucrative benefit Smile

Well that's good. I was worried that the starter of the topic would get more than most...
escritor
It's a good suggestion, but the idea has some cons. Everybody would start quoting each other a lot (even when that's needless) just for earning more points.
ocalhoun
escritor wrote:
It's a good suggestion, but the idea has some cons. Everybody would start quoting each other a lot (even when that's needless) just for earning more points.

Would people really be that altruistic to give others more points with no gain for themselves?
escritor
ocalhoun wrote:
Would people really be that altruistic to give others more points with no gain for themselves?

No, but it'd be timely for opportunists to make a deal for quoting each other. For instance, I quote your messages and you quote mine. We both earn points. Simple that like.
ocalhoun
^Heh, at least they'd still be posting. They'd have to be quality posts too, the no spam rule still applies.
LukeakaDanish
Yea...I really dont think that would be a big problem. Also the point gain would presumably be small enough that it doesn't really matter that much...
rvec
rvec wrote:
I hope there will be a protection to quoting yourself Razz


I like the idea, but as with almost all other ideas, we need Bondings to code it. Maybe we should make him a to-do list so he never gets bored Razz
escritor
ocalhoun wrote:
^Heh, at least they'd still be posting. They'd have to be quality posts too, the no spam rule still applies.

I don't support that idea yet. Razz Well, if the moderators will control the posting quality of the massive quoters, so I think I can live with it. Smile
garionw
well rather then one quote, why not make it if you get quoted 3 times.

That way you will block out the noobs that hit the quote button for the sake of it, and it would mean really good posts get quoted.

I know on IPB that it does quotes differently to phpBB, so maybe we can adopt a similar system here (a quotes overhaul)
Ghost Rider103
There is really no point in quoting the person who started the topic. Seeing everyone who posts in the same topic generally will be replying to the person who has started a topic.

The only time I ever use the quote button is when I am replying to somone else in the thread that has posted a few posts away from the bottom, that way they I am talking to them. (That might have been kind of cofusing, but oh well)

Anyways, it's a good idea I guess, I just don't think it is that important to put the time into making. Then again I guess Bondings could slowly work on it, since it's nothing needed.
escritor
I've quoted some posts from different threads a couple times, but I don't do it often.
Animal
Actually, I think this is a really good idea. Obviously the rewards system would need to be examined - technically it shouldn't be possible for someone to make a few good posts and get quoted then requoted then requoted etc so they never have to return to the forum. Doubtful it would happen, but it would need some consideration.

What about a "nested" quote (ie. someone quotes a post that contains a quote) - should that be rewarded too? Or if you are quoted multiple times in one post?

As I've said, I think it is a good and interesting idea, but the technicalities of implementing it could be a problem. As you know, phpBB (the forum software) uses text as part of the quote rather than a post number

(eg:
Code:
 [quote="original poster"] Quoted text... [/quote]
)

The problem here is that the text can be easily edited and changed to whatever the replying party wants. I reckon that in order to function properly, the quote system would need to rely on quoting post numbers

(eg.
Code:
 [quote=#1234567890] Quoted text... [/quote]
) - this would make it easier to track who is quoting who, easier to automate the rewards system and would maintain the validity of the quote. Of course, the problem is then that only full posts could be quoted and that doesn't make for an easy to follow forum discussion.

As I said, I really do like the idea, but wonder if the technicalities would make it infeasible. This is entirely my opinion though, and not a "no" from a moderator btw Wink
escritor
^ Couldn't the post id numbers be changed too?
Animal
escritor wrote:
^ Couldn't the post id numbers be changed too?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by changing the post numbers, but because of the way the forum currently works and is indexed on search engines, I'm pretty sure the post numbering system would not be altered.
escritor
Animal, I meant the ID number in
Code:
[quote=#1234567890] Quoted text... [/quote]
.

One could quote someone else and replace the post ID by the numeber of a post of his/her own to earn points.
Arnie
escritor wrote:
No, but it'd be timely for opportunists to make a deal for quoting each other. For instance, I quote your messages and you quote mine. We both earn points. Simple that like.
Yeah, let's turn Frihost into MySpace!
ocalhoun
Animal wrote:


As I said, I really do like the idea, but wonder if the technicalities would make it infeasible. This is entirely my opinion though, and not a "no" from a moderator btw Wink


Perhaps this would be one way to do it:
>A user clicks the quote button
>The button passes the user name of the quoted user to the next page
>The posting.php page keeps track of who's post it is by storing that user name in a variable
>When the user clicks submit, the post is posted, and not only is the user's points/frih$ updated, so is the user name stored in the variable.
rvec
Then this would give you points while I didn't even quote you.
So instead of using the reply button you could click on the quote button with some other post and reply using that.
That would give the other user points/frih$ and your post wouldn't look strange at all.
ocalhoun
^True, perhaps it should search the post text for '[quote="' . $quoted_user . ']' before awarding frih$.
Animal
ocalhoun wrote:
^True, perhaps it should search the post text for '[quote="' . $quoted_user . ']' before awarding frih$.

Yeah, that's the way I thought it would work under the current system. However, with the sheer number of posts on the Frihost Forum and the high level of activity, this kind of constant querying would be very likely to put the server under a high processing strain and cause operational problems.

Still searching for the best implementation method (and questioning whether it's actually possible / practical), but I'm still in support of the idea in theory.
escritor
I acknowledge that I appreciate your efforts to find a pratical solution. Smile The last idea was interesting. It would prevent the post ID counterfeiting trick I mentioned.. What a pity it could crash the servers if implemented...
ocalhoun
^The particular algorithm that checks for the quote tags would only need to be used if posting.php was gotten to by clicking the quote button, so it wouldn't be too much server load.
simplyw00x
My god, it's almost as though what's being proposed is some kind of post-voting system (albeit based around quoting, but that's just a technicality). I want to see this too, but apparently the Frihost admins don't like modifying phpbb (even though the excuse for having no alternative themes is that this one has been modified too much...), don't trust the users to be fair (but trust them to earn points by posting in essentially unmoderated topics) and don't have time on their hands (which is... fair enough).
ocalhoun
Its true, I was thinking of this as a kind of post voting system. I just thought that this would be a particularly fair and non-invasive way to do it. It also would require no extra effort from the voters.
rvec
simplyw00x wrote:
My god, it's almost as though what's being proposed is some kind of post-voting system (albeit based around quoting, but that's just a technicality). I want to see this too, but apparently the Frihost admins don't like modifying phpbb (even though the excuse for having no alternative themes is that this one has been modified too much...), don't trust the users to be fair (but trust them to earn points by posting in essentially unmoderated topics) and don't have time on their hands (which is... fair enough).

The frihost admins can't modify anything, Bondings has to do that and he doesn't have enough time. We want to have things changed as much as most users do, but since we're in the exact some position I don't think it's fair to say "the Frihost admins don't like modifying phpbb".
simplyw00x
Quote:
The frihost admins can't modify anything, Bondings has to do that

IIRC, he didn't do all/mmost of the mods himself, there's another guy on here who does that stuff. I think implied in my statement was "the admins [who *could* modify PHPBB]..." Of course I meant no slight against the forum admins, who as you rightly state can't really affect things much either.
escritor
I liked the voting thing. It could be just a thumb up or down. Smile
Animal
simplyw00x wrote:
...but apparently the Frihost admins ... don't trust the users to be fair (but trust them to earn points by posting in essentially unmoderated topics) ...

This isn't actually the case. We have a moderating team that take care of users abusing the system that is in place, and currently, it's pretty easy to spot users who are cheating. IMO the real issue is weighing up the input-to-reward ratio. The points system at the moment is very fair - users keep their sites active by posting their own input on the forums. You can get some good points for some fairly simple, non-spammy posts, and great points for longer, more thoughtful posts. By doing this, the forum is kept fresh, people are happy to keep coming back, and we are featured on search engines and linked to from other sites - critically, this keeps the income stream coming in which pays for everyone's free hosting.

By introducing any points-for-quotes type systems, we need to think about what effect it will have on forum activity. If it causes it to drop significantly then it's bad news for all Frihost members (although I doubt this alone would cause such a drop). The problem with post voting systems is that they can cause a lot of tension between members - if your posts were constantly marked as "poor", you're going to feel demoralised and probably not return. Either that or return with a severe chip on your shoulder, and this doesn't promote good quality posting and lively yet friendly discussion.

We would love to implement all ideas that members would enjoy and that would benefit the community in general. However, time constraints are a real problem since all the staff only work on Frihost in their spare time. The revenues generated are certainly not enough to pay for outside help either, so for now the whole Frihost team really are doing the best they can.

However, what i really like about the suggestions forum is that all the interested users discuss an idea and cover how it may be implemented, what the likely pitfalls are etc and this can really save time during development because suggestions on approaches can be implemented and any of the foreseeable issues have been highlighted.

Sure, it may take a while to be brought into service, but don't "write it off" if you think it'll never happen... it just might
escritor
That was a 5-star response, Animal. Smile It made many things clear for me.

Animal wrote:
The problem with post voting systems is that they can cause a lot of tension between members - if your posts were constantly marked as "poor", you're going to feel demoralised and probably not return.

Or I'm going to improve the quality of my posts to lose that status. Wink
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