Hi all this is just my own belief but i wondered if anyone else thought of this people read the bible and believe all it says, the bible was written by some guy but so was the sense and sensibilty but no one believe that that book is true. What if some guy was frightened of dieing and wanted to know if there was anything else after death so he decided to write the bible and help people who are also afraid of dieing, to make them feel easier and give them something to believe that something is there after death. What would you all think.
Who knows about the bible
Err....no.
Firstly you would have to distinguish between the different testaments - Old and New. Then you need to distinguish the different books in those testaments - most were written by distinct authors in different periods (there was not a single author for either the Old or New Testament).
The Jewish Bible (Old Testament) can be seen more as a 'handbook' for being a Jew. It contains the folk mythology and history, as well as the legal and civil codes, and system of justice/legislature.
The New Testament is an edited and carefully selected collection of books which support a particular sect of Judaism which later became Christianity, and a particular historic view of the founding figure of that sect - Jesus. Some of it is concerned with fitting Jesus into the context of the OT but most of it is narrative account of his life according to a particular tradition (the 'Pauline' tradition).
Firstly you would have to distinguish between the different testaments - Old and New. Then you need to distinguish the different books in those testaments - most were written by distinct authors in different periods (there was not a single author for either the Old or New Testament).
The Jewish Bible (Old Testament) can be seen more as a 'handbook' for being a Jew. It contains the folk mythology and history, as well as the legal and civil codes, and system of justice/legislature.
The New Testament is an edited and carefully selected collection of books which support a particular sect of Judaism which later became Christianity, and a particular historic view of the founding figure of that sect - Jesus. Some of it is concerned with fitting Jesus into the context of the OT but most of it is narrative account of his life according to a particular tradition (the 'Pauline' tradition).
Oh, hell, that's just the start of it.
Let's just take the Old Testament as an example. Pick a single book in the Old Testament (well, first pick a version of the Old Testament ^_^; Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, etc.). The chances are next to zero that that book had a single author. Oh, one person might have put the story together, but the stories and sayings and such were probably cobbled together from dozens of sources: Egyptian, and so on. And even after it was put together it was probably revised over and over again.
It is a silly, childish view of the construction of the Bible to think that one person sat down with a quill and some papyrus, wrote down a book, and what they wrote has become part of the accepted text. Pretty much every part of the Bible was an oral tradition before it was ever written down - and is there anyone who seriously believes that oral traditions do not get corrupted over time?
No, what happened was over hundreds of years, collections of sayings or stories got put together, slowly (over generations) they were structured into something consistent, then once they were packaged nicley enough, they had a label slapped on them, and then they were called one of the "books". That's more or less true for every single book of the Bible, with the possible exception of some of the Epistles in the New Testament.
And then, once they were somewhat formalized as books, they were passed on orally for another span of time before they were finally written down. (And, most people don't know that much of the New Testament was written down before any of the Old Testament.)
And then, after they were written down, they were revised and edited a number of times (we have archaeological evidence of this).
The "traditionalist" view of the Bible - that each book was written by a single person and then passed down unchanged - is patent nonsense.
Let's just take the Old Testament as an example. Pick a single book in the Old Testament (well, first pick a version of the Old Testament ^_^; Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, etc.). The chances are next to zero that that book had a single author. Oh, one person might have put the story together, but the stories and sayings and such were probably cobbled together from dozens of sources: Egyptian, and so on. And even after it was put together it was probably revised over and over again.
It is a silly, childish view of the construction of the Bible to think that one person sat down with a quill and some papyrus, wrote down a book, and what they wrote has become part of the accepted text. Pretty much every part of the Bible was an oral tradition before it was ever written down - and is there anyone who seriously believes that oral traditions do not get corrupted over time?
No, what happened was over hundreds of years, collections of sayings or stories got put together, slowly (over generations) they were structured into something consistent, then once they were packaged nicley enough, they had a label slapped on them, and then they were called one of the "books". That's more or less true for every single book of the Bible, with the possible exception of some of the Epistles in the New Testament.
And then, once they were somewhat formalized as books, they were passed on orally for another span of time before they were finally written down. (And, most people don't know that much of the New Testament was written down before any of the Old Testament.)
And then, after they were written down, they were revised and edited a number of times (we have archaeological evidence of this).
The "traditionalist" view of the Bible - that each book was written by a single person and then passed down unchanged - is patent nonsense.
| Indi wrote: |
| Pick a single book in the Old Testament (well, first pick a version of the Old Testament ^_^; Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, etc.). The chances are next to zero that that book had a single author. |
I disagree. Several books in the OT were written by one person. In fact, there is a whole sequence known as the Deuteronomistic History which was written by the same person as the book of Deuteronomy.
| jeremyp wrote: | ||
I disagree. Several books in the OT were written by one person. In fact, there is a whole sequence known as the Deuteronomistic History which was written by the same person as the book of Deuteronomy. |
Er... if you know about the Deuteronomist theory, then you should know that it is exactly the kind of thing i was talking about. i said: "The chances are next to zero that that book had a single author. Oh, one person might have put the story together, but the stories and sayings and such were probably cobbled together from dozens of sources: Egyptian, and so on. And even after it was put together it was probably revised over and over again." See the part in red? That would be Mr. Deuteronomist. He collected a bunch of myths and older writings and revised them. But he did not make them up himself (we know this because the same myths exist in different sources).
what does everyone else think theres nly a few people on ere that chat
Well, what is left to say?
You asked if the bible was written by 'some guy' who was afraid of dying and wanted to help others. The answer is no. That's about it...
You asked if the bible was written by 'some guy' who was afraid of dying and wanted to help others. The answer is no. That's about it...
| Quote: |
| what does everyone else think theres nly a few people on ere that chat |
| Quote: |
| Well, what is left to say?
You asked if the bible was written by 'some guy' who was afraid of dying and wanted to help others. The answer is no. That's about it... |
That's about right. Most other people who comment here will simply be restating what already has been said. That the Bible was not written by 'some guy', but by various people over the course of history. Take the New Testament, for example. It is historically verifiable that the various books and letters contained therein were not written all by the same person.
Nope, the Bible had many authors. In fact, it was even assembled by many people, some 300 years after Jesus died.
Hi Guys
I guess you firstly do not believe the bible is divinely inspired but let me give you some real information about the bible which will help you make you own choice!
As know from the above discussion that the bible is divided into two parts, the Old and the New Testaments. The entire bible was written by 40 different authors from Kings, Prophets, Leaders and common people but there is one major thread going through the bible from Genesis to Revelation.
The Old Testament has 39 Books written by 32 authors, some of the authors of the Old Testament were: Moses – Price of Egypt, King David, King Solomon (also the wisest man to ever live on earth), Prophets like Isaiah, Daniels, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Joel. Etc, 32 in all. These were all men with intellectual knowledge and in some even major leaders not only in Israel, but Egypt, Babylon and Persia.
The Old Testament is divided into various groups:
The Torah or the Law
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy (5)
History
Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Ester (12)
Poetry
Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Lamentations (6)
Major Prophets – Major because the wrote the most
Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel (4)
Minor Prophets
Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi (12)
The New Testament has 27 Books written by 8 different authors, Tax collectors, Medical Doctors, Fishermen and Highly trained intellectuals like Paul. The New Testament is divided into various groups:
Gospels
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John (4)
Church History
Acts (1)
Paul’s Epistles
Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews (14)
James Epistles
James (1)
Peter’s Epistles
1 & 2 Peter (2)
John’s Epistles
1,2 & 3 John (3)
Jude’s Epistles
Jude (1)
Prophesy
Revelations (1)
What is really amazing is the common thread running through the bible, that thread is Jesus Christ with over 40 prophesies of His death and resurrection in the Old testament which were fulfilled through Jesus Christ, that is mathematically be calculated at one person fulfilling all these prophesies is somewhere in the region of ten to the power forty-eight. By the way some of the things prophesied were not invented yet like death by crucifixion.
The bible speaks about many thing which today modern science has proved like the Hydrological cycle, spoke of in the Book of Job. The Pleiades being held together by gravity – also found in Job, only today our “fantastic” scientists have discovered that this is infact true. The bible said the world was round, you know what happened to Galileo when he suggested this – funny it was the church that persecuted him. And I can go on and on for Medical terminology, science, astronomy even references to dinosaurs are discovered in the bible (remember we only woke up to the existence of dinosaurs in the later 1800, that means the bible beat science by 5850 years!!!).
So no it is not just a book of fables but a book full of actual events, wisdom, history, sciences, prophecy and a lot more that can be historically and scientifically proven. Where there have been discrepancies science or history have been proved wrong and the outstanding issues will also prove science and history wrong.
But lets say it is just another book, I bet you could not get 40 of your buddies together and ask them to individually write a story about there life and the history around them, what happened, who the people where, what date and time things happened, let them even prophesy 40 things that will happen in the next year. Make sure also these friends of yours are at 40 different locations and at least four different countries, with no outside help from your friends or any other reference material, just write what you know and remember.
Now get together and read your accounts, I doubt that even 50% will have a common thread, and even if they do they most probably are not inspirational and most definitely unable to give us much hope, wisdom, insight and especially insight into the future.
Now take your accounts and publish them and let see if they will ever become a best seller even in your home country and top the sales of bibles.
As you may or may not know, the Bible is the worlds Number ONE best seller of all time. No other book ever printed has been translated into so many languages of the world, sold more copies, given so much inspiration to so many countless billions of people. There is no other book in existence that can even compare to the bible.
One last thing, lets compare the bible to just two ancient books on history, which we take as fact and lets look at how many copies there are and how long after the even they were written:
Book Copies The number of years the account
Available was written after the events occurred
Wars of Hannibal 1 400 years
History of Rome 3 300 years
The New Testament >5000 less than 80 years
The Old Testament >10000 Written over a period of 2500 years
No the BIBLE is no ordinary book!!! It is not a set of fables but actual facts and historical accounts of mankind, mainly focused on the Jewish nation with the scarlet thread running right through the bible of Jesus Christ.
The BIBLE is God’s love letter to you, it tells of man’s efforts to please Him and His plan for you to have Eternal life and a relationship with Him. I suggest you start reading it, it is the Very Words of GOD almighty and if you let it, it will change your life.
I guess you firstly do not believe the bible is divinely inspired but let me give you some real information about the bible which will help you make you own choice!
As know from the above discussion that the bible is divided into two parts, the Old and the New Testaments. The entire bible was written by 40 different authors from Kings, Prophets, Leaders and common people but there is one major thread going through the bible from Genesis to Revelation.
The Old Testament has 39 Books written by 32 authors, some of the authors of the Old Testament were: Moses – Price of Egypt, King David, King Solomon (also the wisest man to ever live on earth), Prophets like Isaiah, Daniels, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Joel. Etc, 32 in all. These were all men with intellectual knowledge and in some even major leaders not only in Israel, but Egypt, Babylon and Persia.
The Old Testament is divided into various groups:
The Torah or the Law
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy (5)
History
Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Ester (12)
Poetry
Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Lamentations (6)
Major Prophets – Major because the wrote the most
Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel (4)
Minor Prophets
Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi (12)
The New Testament has 27 Books written by 8 different authors, Tax collectors, Medical Doctors, Fishermen and Highly trained intellectuals like Paul. The New Testament is divided into various groups:
Gospels
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John (4)
Church History
Acts (1)
Paul’s Epistles
Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews (14)
James Epistles
James (1)
Peter’s Epistles
1 & 2 Peter (2)
John’s Epistles
1,2 & 3 John (3)
Jude’s Epistles
Jude (1)
Prophesy
Revelations (1)
What is really amazing is the common thread running through the bible, that thread is Jesus Christ with over 40 prophesies of His death and resurrection in the Old testament which were fulfilled through Jesus Christ, that is mathematically be calculated at one person fulfilling all these prophesies is somewhere in the region of ten to the power forty-eight. By the way some of the things prophesied were not invented yet like death by crucifixion.
The bible speaks about many thing which today modern science has proved like the Hydrological cycle, spoke of in the Book of Job. The Pleiades being held together by gravity – also found in Job, only today our “fantastic” scientists have discovered that this is infact true. The bible said the world was round, you know what happened to Galileo when he suggested this – funny it was the church that persecuted him. And I can go on and on for Medical terminology, science, astronomy even references to dinosaurs are discovered in the bible (remember we only woke up to the existence of dinosaurs in the later 1800, that means the bible beat science by 5850 years!!!).
So no it is not just a book of fables but a book full of actual events, wisdom, history, sciences, prophecy and a lot more that can be historically and scientifically proven. Where there have been discrepancies science or history have been proved wrong and the outstanding issues will also prove science and history wrong.
But lets say it is just another book, I bet you could not get 40 of your buddies together and ask them to individually write a story about there life and the history around them, what happened, who the people where, what date and time things happened, let them even prophesy 40 things that will happen in the next year. Make sure also these friends of yours are at 40 different locations and at least four different countries, with no outside help from your friends or any other reference material, just write what you know and remember.
Now get together and read your accounts, I doubt that even 50% will have a common thread, and even if they do they most probably are not inspirational and most definitely unable to give us much hope, wisdom, insight and especially insight into the future.
Now take your accounts and publish them and let see if they will ever become a best seller even in your home country and top the sales of bibles.
As you may or may not know, the Bible is the worlds Number ONE best seller of all time. No other book ever printed has been translated into so many languages of the world, sold more copies, given so much inspiration to so many countless billions of people. There is no other book in existence that can even compare to the bible.
One last thing, lets compare the bible to just two ancient books on history, which we take as fact and lets look at how many copies there are and how long after the even they were written:
Book Copies The number of years the account
Available was written after the events occurred
Wars of Hannibal 1 400 years
History of Rome 3 300 years
The New Testament >5000 less than 80 years
The Old Testament >10000 Written over a period of 2500 years
No the BIBLE is no ordinary book!!! It is not a set of fables but actual facts and historical accounts of mankind, mainly focused on the Jewish nation with the scarlet thread running right through the bible of Jesus Christ.
The BIBLE is God’s love letter to you, it tells of man’s efforts to please Him and His plan for you to have Eternal life and a relationship with Him. I suggest you start reading it, it is the Very Words of GOD almighty and if you let it, it will change your life.
| xtupie wrote: |
| Hi Guys
I guess you firstly do not believe the bible is divinely inspired but let me give you some real information about the bible...> <... Jude (1) Prophesy Revelations (1) |
I don't quote this part since i have nothing to say about that.
| xtupie wrote: |
|
What is really amazing is the common thread running through the bible, that thread is Jesus Christ with over 40 prophesies of His death and resurrection in the Old testament which were fulfilled through Jesus Christ, that is mathematically be calculated at one person fulfilling all these prophesies is somewhere in the region of ten to the power forty-eight. By the way some of the things prophesied were not invented yet like death by crucifixion. |
Well the "new" bible was written after jesus so the fulfilling of prophecies could have been forged and/or changed, if it prophisized and been fullfilled in the past a long time ago it doesn't prove anything and many prophecies could have been fullfilled by anyone, like walking through a gate on a certain time doesn't prove anything.
| xtupie wrote: |
| The bible speaks about many thing which today modern science has proved like the Hydrological cycle, spoke of in the Book of Job. The Pleiades being held together by gravity – also found in Job, only today our “fantastic” scientists have discovered that this is infact true. The bible said the world was round, you know what happened to Galileo when he suggested this – funny it was the church that persecuted him. And I can go on and on for Medical terminology, science, astronomy even references to dinosaurs are discovered in the bible (remember we only woke up to the existence of dinosaurs in the later 1800, that means the bible beat science by 5850 years!!!). |
1. The hydrological cycle is a bit longer around than only a few years, and with a bit of logic anyone can conclude the same thing, people see water evaporating into the air and falling back to the ground really that proves nothing. And i don't even believe its in there exactly like we know it today.
2. Pleiades held together by gravity in the bible? Quote the text please.
3. The bible said the world was ROUND like a PLATE and flat, Not speherical. Galileo was persecuted by the vatican because said that the earth spinned around the sun in stead of the other way around. And just guess what the bible said, yep the Geocentric model.
4. The bible said not there were dinosoaurs but there were giant animals/lizards. With a bit of imagination you could have thought of a big lizard yourself. Hell they talked also of giants (men) haven't found any fossils of those...
| xtupie wrote: |
| So no it is not just a book of fables but a book full of actual events, wisdom, history, sciences, prophecy and a lot more that can be historically and scientifically proven. Where there have been discrepancies science or history have been proved wrong and the outstanding issues will also prove science and history wrong. |
No it's a fable, the wisdom is not wisdom, and the prophecy's are easily forged. Haha science has less times been proven wrong by the bible than the other way around. Actually what time was science been proven wrong by the bible?
| xtupie wrote: |
| But lets say it is just another book, I bet you could not get 40 of your buddies together and ask them to individually write a story about there life and the history around them, what happened, who the people where, what date and time things happened, let them even prophesy 40 things that will happen in the next year. Make sure also these friends of yours are at 40 different locations and at least four different countries, with no outside help from your friends or any other reference material, just write what you know and remember.
Now get together and read your accounts, I doubt that even 50% will have a common thread, and even if they do they most probably are not inspirational and most definitely unable to give us much hope, wisdom, insight and especially insight into the future. Now take your accounts and publish them and let see if they will ever become a best seller even in your home country and top the sales of bibles. |
Lol, the point is the bible is a collection of different story's later on edited and put together, really anyone could make LOTR connect with Harry Potter. There is no proof here either.
| xtupie wrote: |
| As you may or may not know, the Bible is the worlds Number ONE best seller of all time. No other book ever printed has been translated into so many languages of the world, sold more copies, given so much inspiration to so many countless billions of people. There is no other book in existence that can even compare to the bible. |
Firstly if something is published more it doesn't mean it is right, secondly the bible is sold/printed about 5 to 6 billion times.
The red book by MAO
is sold about 5 to 6.5 billion times.
I think you can see where this is going.
| xtupie wrote: |
| One last thing, lets compare the bible to just two ancient books on history, which we take as fact and lets look at how many copies there are and how long after the even they were written:
Book Copies The number of years the account Available was written after the events occurred Wars of Hannibal 1 400 years History of Rome 3 300 years The New Testament >5000 less than 80 years The Old Testament >10000 Written over a period of 2500 years No the BIBLE is no ordinary book!!! It is not a set of fables but actual facts and historical accounts of mankind, mainly focused on the Jewish nation with the scarlet thread running right through the bible of Jesus Christ. The BIBLE is God’s love letter to you, it tells of man’s efforts to please Him and His plan for you to have Eternal life and a relationship with Him. I suggest you start reading it, it is the Very Words of GOD almighty and if you let it, it will change your life. |
When I read (a very small part of) the bible there were many contradictions and things that could not have happened, further science has brought us more than the bible.
What did the bible brought us? 1000 years of intelectual standstill.
What did science brought us? 500 years of increasing devolpent and tripling of the average life spawn.
As for the whole question, the book was put together by different people etc. look at indi, nor were they afraid of dying. A commen story is that the king of the bazyintine empire needed a religion to keep his state together. (He was converted on his deathbed)
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