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Anonymous vs. Church of $cientology





Jinx
Protests were held all over the world today, Feb 10th, to draw the public's attention to the crimes and abuses of the Church of Scientology.
Wearing masks to protect themselves from Scientology's Fair Game practices (the Church's belief that anyone who speaks out against them is fair game for harassment and lawsuits), the protesters waved signs and handed out fliers with information about the death of Lisa McPherson, Operation Snow White, and Operation Freakout, and other crimes committed by the CoS.
For more information, google Project Chanology, or search YouTube for Anonymous vids.
Thousands of protesters, 88 cities, no violence = Epic Win for Anonymous.
liljp617
Good. Smile Hopefully it gets somewhere or at least saves a few people a lot of headache.
Bru, stuffce
I still believe that the Simpsons Scientology episode was the best publicity that they could have had. From my point of view, of course, not theirs. It was hysterical. I laughed like a drain when the rapper was singing "Tom Cruise is in the cupboard.."
coolclay
I am pretty sure that was SouthPark not The Simpson's. Well maybe the Simpson's did an scientology episode too but I haven't seen it.
zanzou
:D Awesome, I am so pleased to see this is already up.

It's happening again on March 15th, if anyone is interested in going:

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/PROJECT_CHANOLOGY/IRL_PROTEST_PAGE/IDES_OF_MARCH
LumberJack
I am curious to know if the Simpson's will all of a sudden disappear from the airwaves as a result of their blasphemy? Wink
zanzou
LumberJack wrote:
I am curious to know if the Simpson's will all of a sudden disappear from the airwaves as a result of their blasphemy? ;)


Do you mean South Park?
edysite
Os desenhos eles criticam a sociedade em si
j0yfuln0is3
Go Anon!

Scientology? Not to offend anyone here.. but really. Come on.
Some of the scandals are atrocious anyway...
wombatrpgs
I've always wondered what type of person actually signs up for Scientology... It seems the purpose of enrolling is to cause controversy. There's really not anyone that's aware of the scandals; most are fairly outrageous. Anyway, if even one or two of these things are true, then this religion is simply unbelievable...

Though this is a nice summary of complaints against them: http://youfoundthecard.com/our-mission.php
zanzou
wombatrpgs wrote:
I've always wondered what type of person actually signs up for Scientology... It seems the purpose of enrolling is to cause controversy. There's really not anyone that's aware of the scandals; most are fairly outrageous. Anyway, if even one or two of these things are true, then this religion is simply unbelievable...


I can't help but think that a lot of the people who sign up do so under the "alternative to psychology" aspect of it. I have no idea what drugs cost in the US, but it's possible that scientology, at first, is a much cheaper form of therapy, with no pills to buy afterwards.

>_>; That's the only way /I/ can imagine someone getting into it, anyway.
wombatrpgs
zanzou wrote:
I can't help but think that a lot of the people who sign up do so under the "alternative to psychology" aspect of it. I have no idea what drugs cost in the US, but it's possible that scientology, at first, is a much cheaper form of therapy, with no pills to buy afterwards.

>_>; That's the only way /I/ can imagine someone getting into it, anyway.


The thing is, Scientology is (purportedly) expensive... With recommended classes costing hundreds of dollars... Though I can't say the source wasn't biased...

About going against psychology... It seems a little ridiculous. From that website I posted earlier:
http://youfoundthecard.com/scientology-vs-psychiatry.php
Again, not really fair, but still, calling psychology and psychiatry non-scientific organizations while at the same time preaching their non-scientific beliefs... Just very confusing.
zanzou
wombatrpgs wrote:
The thing is, Scientology is (purportedly) expensive... With recommended classes costing hundreds of dollars... Though I can't say the source wasn't biased...

About going against psychology... It seems a little ridiculous. From that website I posted earlier:
http://youfoundthecard.com/scientology-vs-psychiatry.php
Again, not really fair, but still, calling psychology and psychiatry non-scientific organizations while at the same time preaching their non-scientific beliefs... Just very confusing.


Oh, I agree, it's monstrously expensive. But I imagine, for the lower level courses, it at least SEEMS cheaper at first.
quex
Yaaaay anon. When's the next party? May 10th.

I AM SO F*CKING EXCITED.
Jinx
Yep. Fair Game is the focus of the next protest.

Did you know that the Church of Scientology has a policy that states that an SP (Suppressive Person) can be "...tricked, sued, lied to, and destroyed." Of course, anyone in the church will tell you that this policy was canceled, but in truth it was only the name of the policy that was changed. (for more information, check out [url]xenu.net[/url] and look for "Fair Game".

You might also want to read Paulette Cooper's story.

If reading that makes you angry, good. Grab a mask and head to your nearest protest on May 10th. They are happening all over the world.

[Edit: Sorry, forgot to clarify: A Suppressive Person is anyone who criticizes the church in any way. That's why Anonymous prefers to stay anonymous.]
wombatrpgs
This feels really unfair without anyone backing up Scientology... And I really don't feel like doing it... So, anyone know anyone who's into Scientology? If so, why did they sign up...?
quex
You know, there's a reason that nobody on the internet backs up the Co$. Church members are systematically discouraged from speaking out in open forums, because once you start hearing alternate opinions beyond what the church is teaching, you're at risk of questioning your faith in Scientology.
zanzou
wombatrpgs wrote:
This feels really unfair without anyone backing up Scientology... And I really don't feel like doing it... So, anyone know anyone who's into Scientology? If so, why did they sign up...?


Well, the scientologists automatically call anyone in Anonymous terrorists and/or working for Pharmaceuticals. And yes, I've met people into it, and no, they can't really defend it (in a way that makes any sense, at least).
liljp617
wombatrpgs wrote:
This feels really unfair without anyone backing up Scientology... And I really don't feel like doing it... So, anyone know anyone who's into Scientology? If so, why did they sign up...?

What's to defend?
wombatrpgs
liljp617 wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
This feels really unfair without anyone backing up Scientology... And I really don't feel like doing it... So, anyone know anyone who's into Scientology? If so, why did they sign up...?

What's to defend?


I have no idea. Which is precisely why we need someone to explain that.

About the other comments... Once again this is probably another topic that can't be discussed because it's rooted in an illogical concept. If no one will defend it with logic, there's no point to attacking it with logic. Guess it's a whole different system of thinking... And not one I especially care for.
zanzou
wombatrpgs wrote:

I have no idea. Which is precisely why we need someone to explain that.

About the other comments... Once again this is probably another topic that can't be discussed because it's rooted in an illogical concept. If no one will defend it with logic, there's no point to attacking it with logic. Guess it's a whole different system of thinking... And not one I especially care for.


Here's the thing: most of the people attacking it? Already know a lot about it. We don't need a scientologist to defend it to US. If you're curious, go read up on the religion-- or hell, read Dianetics.

But frankly, I prefer not to have turning into a mudslinging fest. And when I've encountered scientologists online, that's what it has always turned to.
quex
wombatrpgs wrote:
liljp617 wrote:
wombatrpgs wrote:
This feels really unfair without anyone backing up Scientology... And I really don't feel like doing it... So, anyone know anyone who's into Scientology? If so, why did they sign up...?

What's to defend?


I have no idea. Which is precisely why we need someone to explain that.

About the other comments... Once again this is probably another topic that can't be discussed because it's rooted in an illogical concept. If no one will defend it with logic, there's no point to attacking it with logic. Guess it's a whole different system of thinking... And not one I especially care for.


Okay, here's some logic.

Scientology was founded by a mildly successful science fiction author named L. Ron Hubbard, who famously said "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."

One of the high-level secrets of Scientology, revealed only to members who have donated money beyond a certain amount to the church and proven themselves loyal for a considerable amount of time, is that all of our psychological troubles are brought upon us by the souls of aliens, wandering the earth, who attach themselves to us. The source of these alien souls -- again, according to Scientology -- is that billions of aliens were collected, frozen, flown to earth on spaceships that looked like DC-10s, stored in the volcanoes of our planet, and ultimately blown up millions of years ago by an evil intergalactic warlord named Xenu, to stop the overpopulation of the universe. Xenu even re-educated the souls in gigantic theaters to teach them false history and confuse them.

Scientology further teaches its followers that modern psychiatry and psychiatric medicine will not help them, and in fact, that it is even a scheme to harm them and keep them from being happy, productive people. Believing this, many Scientologists have quit therapy sessions and stopped taken medicines proscribed to them by doctors, or worse, refused to give their children medication. Suicides abound among Co$ members.

And sometimes, Scientology takes an even more direct role in killing its troubled members.

I could go on, Wombat, but I'll leave the rest of your education to you.
wombatrpgs
quex wrote:
Okay, here's some logic.

Scientology was founded by a mildly successful science fiction author named L. Ron Hubbard, who famously said "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."

One of the high-level secrets of Scientology, revealed only to members who have donated money beyond a certain amount to the church and proven themselves loyal for a considerable amount of time, is that all of our psychological troubles are brought upon us by the souls of aliens, wandering the earth, who attach themselves to us. The source of these alien souls -- again, according to Scientology -- is that billions of aliens were collected, frozen, flown to earth on spaceships that looked like DC-10s, stored in the volcanoes of our planet, and ultimately blown up millions of years ago by an evil intergalactic warlord named Xenu, to stop the overpopulation of the universe. Xenu even re-educated the souls in gigantic theaters to teach them false history and confuse them.

Scientology further teaches its followers that modern psychiatry and psychiatric medicine will not help them, and in fact, that it is even a scheme to harm them and keep them from being happy, productive people. Believing this, many Scientologists have quit therapy sessions and stopped taken medicines proscribed to them by doctors, or worse, refused to give their children medication. Suicides abound among Co$ members.

And sometimes, Scientology takes an even more direct role in killing its troubled members.

I could go on, Wombat, but I'll leave the rest of your education to you.


I'm aware of the nonsense of it all, which is precisely why logic is needed to explain it. This isn't "logic," it's just the general Scientology myths... The logic would be needed to explain why anyone should believe this. The fact that people are actually taken in by this, (apart from being appalling) means there must be something go in to this for. You'd need to logic to explain why people sign up.

You can't attempt to explain these events with logic (or present them as logic) because they are illogical in nature. You can't debate a religion based on rhetoric as the entire thing is nonsensical.
Jinx
How are people taken in by Scientology - a layperson's understanding of the phenomenon:

Imagine you are walking down the street and you see a sign offering a free stress test. You, like most everyone else in the world, are curious. You want to be a better person, and you aren't sure how. You have worries and stress in your life. These folks seem to be offering an answer, so you duck through the doorway to see what it's about. You are greeted by a friendly young woman who seems genuinely excited to see you, and is certain that her religion can help you. She taes you into a room and conducts the stress test. You spend several minutes answering personal questions about your life.

When the results come back they seem to show the areas of your life that need improvement - perhaps communication, relationships, self-esteem, etc. (And the tests always show some deficit, they are rigged to.) The nice young woman then tells you how a few Scientology courses can fix those problems, and the courses are very cheap. You need the communications course, and several hours of auditing should help with your self-esteem issues, and there is even a course for handling relationship problems.

When you are uncertain she offers to show you a 20 minute video that explains how it all works. The video is very persuasive, and so are the high pressure sales tactics that are being used on you. They are selling hope, and everyone is in the market for that. One of their tactics is to find your "ruin", your button, and they push it very skillfully. And then they offer you the cure. If you don't know what you are getting into it can sound very promising.

So, you sign up for the courses. And buy a copy of Dianetics.

A couple of days later you are back for your first round of auditing.

After watching an orientation film you are shown into a room with a table and an odd device sitting on the table. It looks like some sort of meter with dials and buttons and a gauge with a needle that moves. It is attached to two cans which you are asked to hold. This device is an e-meter.

The e-meter is like a low powered lie detector. It measures galvanic skin response by moving a minuscule charge of electricity through you. The auditor will tell you that what it measures are your engrams - the emotional and mental traumas and sticking points that are making you unhappy. What it really does is let the auditor know what questions evoke an emotional response so they know where to prod further, what to focus on to help you achieve a "win" (a breakthrough). Meanwhile, that tiny charge of electricity, as a side effect, is causing your body to produce endorphins, like you get when you eat chocolate.

The auditor is asking you repetitive, probing questions. The repetition is a method used by hypnotist to put a subject into a suggestive state. In this case it is only a mildly receptive state, but its still an altered state of mind that makes you more open to what they have to tell you.

You find similar techniques used in the communications class when you have to give commands to an inanimate object over and over and over again, or learn to "confront" by sitting unmoving and staring another person in the eyes for hours without changing your expression. All of these are techniques designed to alter your consciousness. And you may find that the courses work for you. Many people do find that the early courses help them somewhat in their lives. So they come back for more. They start moving up the Bridge to Total Freedom.

You are told that you can be a perfect human being. That you can increase your IQ, that you can improve your senses, that you can gain powers over matter, energy, space, and time (MEST). All you have to do is move up the Bridge to the state of Clear. You have to Clear all of the engrams you have accumulated through this lifetime and all your previous lifetimes.

The early courses seem to have helped. You've had some "wins", and you like the auditing (because it can often feel good to open up and get things off your chest. And who doesn't like a little endorphine release every now and then.) So you come back for more. This Clear thing sounds pretty good.

So, over the course of the next few years you take course after course. You literally buy into the propaganda they are selling. And why not. You feel better after your auditing sessions. You feel like you are learning valuable techniques for dealing with your life, you just need a few more courses and you will really see a difference. You are spending thousands of dollars on these services, they have to be worth something (Google the phenomenon of "Perceived Value" - if know nothing about art, and you see two paintings next to one another, one priced at $20 and another priced at $200, you would tend to think that the second one is the better painting. Simplified, I know, but the phenomenon is real.) Besides, all of these people you've been talking with seem really happy, and they are all trying to make the world a better place according to the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard. They are on a mission to save the planet, to get everyone to "Clear".

Most people stay in this phase, they are considered "public" - ie; Scientologists who are not on staff.

But lets take it to the next step.

Eventually you get to a point where you can no longer afford to pay for courses. Clear seems so close, and you've worked so hard to get this far, and you really believe that Scientology is the way to save the world. So, you go on staff at your local Org. You get a small paycheck each week, but the real benefit is that you get your courses for free.

Ok, this has already turned into a wall-o-text, so I'm gonna simplify from here.

After being on staff a while a person might be pressured into joining the Sea Org - Scientology's elite.

The Xenu stuff? You never get to hear that until you reach OTIII, well after clear, and well after you have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and been throughly indoctrinated.

In the mean time, from the moment of your first course, you have been learning another language. You have been learning about MU's, engrams, thetans, SP/PTS, clear, handling, confront, ethics (which words all have a completely different meaning to a Scientologist than they do to anyone on the outside.) This new language isn't understood by people on the outside. It drives a wedge between you and the people in your life that just don't get it. But all of the people on the inside do get it. They understand you perfectly.

You also learn that sickness is caused by engrams, and that engrams can come from SP's. SPs are Suppressive Persons. They are people who are jealous and don't want to see you succeed. They want to hold you back. An SP can be anyone in your life who is critical of you or your path, anyone who talks badly about Scientology, or anyone who cares for you and is concerned about what Scientology is doing to your life. If you want to continue up the bridge, you must either 'handle' the SP (meaning bringing them around to your way of thinking so that they are no longer 'making you wrong') or you must disconnect from the SP - cut them out of your life altogether. Anyone who refuses to handle or disconnect from an SP will be declared an SP themselves. Scientologists experience intense pressure from their peers and superiors within the church to disconnect from friends and family members who are considered SPs.

The whole thing, from the very beginning, from the moment you see the 'free stress test' sign, is a mind game. They offer you hope, they fill you with ideals and dogma that promisies a better life is just around the next corner, drain you dry (either by cleaning out your wallet, or by pressing you into service as virtual slave labor), they separate you from your friends and family and isolate you from anyone who might have an opinion other than what the church endorses. And if you ever do wake up and start questioning what you have been doing with your life, wondering if the Church can really offer you all that it has promised, you run the risk of being declared an SP yourself. Of course, by this time, you have either brought everyone you care about into the Church, or you have disconnected from them. So if you leave you have nowhere to go, no one to turn to, and you will be leaving behind all of the people you care about who are still in.


Caveat - this is my understanding of the way this works as an outsider looking in. I have watched numerous interviews with ex-Scientologists, and read their stories. This is taken from the common themes, the bits that all of the stories seem to share.
If you want to read some first hand accounts, please, go to www.exscientologykids.com and read the stories there.
quex
wombatrpgs wrote:

I'm aware of the nonsense of it all, which is precisely why logic is needed to explain it. This isn't "logic," it's just the general Scientology myths... The logic would be needed to explain why anyone should believe this.


So you want an explanation of the good elements of Scientology? The things that attract followers?

Quote:
The fact that people are actually taken in by this, (apart from being appalling) means there must be something go in to this for. You'd need to logic to explain why people sign up.


No, you don't need logic, because you're talking about people. Human beings. We are largely an illogical species. If you'll accept cause-and-effect relations in lieu of philosophic logic, here is the truth about Scientology and every other mass religion, to some extent, more or less:

Human kind, after satisfying the needs of shelter and sustenance, seeks acceptance and belonging as equally vital elements of its well-being. A religion offers exactly this; a large, established family of like-minded persons who are bound to accept an individual in return for that individual accepting them.

Quote:
You can't attempt to explain these events with logic (or present them as logic) because they are illogical in nature.


...just like people. Wait, how is this different from what I said?

Quote:
You can't debate a religion based on rhetoric as the entire thing is nonsensical.


Now I'm confused. o.o Oh well, lost cause.

Jinx, brilliant. Request permission to quote you, please.
Jinx
Feel free.

I don't usually go off on long rants like that, but this whole thing just gets my blood boiling.
quex
Jinx wrote:
I don't usually go off on long rants like that, but this whole thing just gets my blood boiling.


Roger, ditto, and thanks.
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