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Is it OK to be gay?






Is it OK to be gay?
yes
73%
 73%  [ 44 ]
no
26%
 26%  [ 16 ]
Total Votes : 60

giovle
Hi,

I'm not gay, but I was wondering if the world was really as ****** up as some messages seem to suggest. Ok, you're probably wondering what the hell I mean ...
Recently (as in today) I received a message from a friend of mine, with a link to another forum. The topic I was directed to, was about a father (the person posting the topic) asking advice for his son (who apparently turned out to be gay). I'll post the main ideas in the next answer.

By the way, is it ok to say gay (what a great rhyme Razz )? or do you prefer homosexual? Just a thought. I just want to make sure I'm not offending someone.
giovle
This is the post I was referring to (from another forum):

"Just recently my son Bobby came out to me. I had been worried for awhile. His teachers said most of his grades were slipping and he seemed depressed and withdrawn.

Bobby said he'd been hiding it for awhile because he was afraid I would reject him. I sat him down and told him that I loved him and that God loved him, but that his salvation was in danger if he did not resist his unnatural tempations. I told him how being gay would mean he would live a shorter life, and that if he couldnt change his orientation he could be celibate like most the ex-gays are. He started crying saying something along the lines of "I knew you wouldnt understand! You're just like everyone else!" before running to his room and slamming the door.

What did I do wrong? I dont want to lose my son, but I fear I already have. I talked it over with his therapist, who had the ludicrous idea that homosexuality was unchangable and that trying to repress could lead to lots of psychological damage (I've dropped him and will try to be finding another therapist with more moral beliefs). I wouldnt be surprised if he's the one who's feeding my son all the homosexual propaganda about how its 'ok' to be gay. That, or how homosexuality has engulfed the media, making it seem 'cool' and 'hip' and how they were just another oppressed minority. You didnt have to worry about seeing two men making out on tv at my age! I dont want to sound like a fanatic, but Im worried what other effects will come out of this increasingly secular, immoral society obsessed with filth.

Am I too late? Or is it possible to save my son

[Note: the boy eventually took his own life.]"
Coen
Of course it's OK to be gay. It is accepted in normal day sociaty and therefor should not be challanged by anyone. Everyone is a normal person, which is no diffrent for homosexual.
Regarding your question whether gay is correct or not, it's not offensive so therefor correct however I prefer homosexual myself as I find it less offensive.
giovle
Coen wrote:
Of course it's OK to be gay. It is accepted in normal day sociaty and therefor should not be challanged by anyone. Everyone is a normal person, which is no diffrent for homosexual.
Regarding your question whether gay is correct or not, it's not offensive so therefor correct however I prefer homosexual myself as I find it less offensive.


Thanks for the message. I agree with you, all the way. It just pisses me off that there are people out there that think like that. I can only guess how it makes you pissed Smile
I thought that homosexual was less likely to be taken offensively, but as long as everybody's OK with it, it doens't matter that much. No?
alexandros_ch
its ok only if gay people dont involve children in their relationship

dad and dad welcome home!!!
zaira
for me, its very normal for a person to change its personality if he sees something unusual or diiferent from his nature and actions. Its a better way to adapt life if you'll be what ever you want to be, even it will be a change in gender. A person may choose whatever he wants to be, regardless of the result that he may undertake. even his personality is on the risk, he can't be a "HE" if he chooses to be a "SHE", and it will be a great burden if he really don't like the life he's living at...
giovle
alexandros_ch wrote:
its ok only if gay people dont involve children in their relationship

dad and dad welcome home!!!


Although I cannot tell how I would feel if my parents were a homosexual couple, I don't see the need of prohibiting gay couples to have a child. There are lots of orphans and lost children that would give up everything just to have a mother or a father, or two mothers or two fathers. I don't mean that gay couples should only be able to adopt such children, but I'm just pointing out that it doesn't matter what kind of parents you have (with kind, I mean homosexual or heterosexual) as long as they love you as their child.
giovle
zaira wrote:
for me, its very normal for a person to change its personality if he sees something unusual or diiferent from his nature and actions. Its a better way to adapt life if you'll be what ever you want to be, even it will be a change in gender. A person may choose whatever he wants to be, regardless of the result that he may undertake. even his personality is on the risk, he can't be a "HE" if he chooses to be a "SHE", and it will be a great burden if he really don't like the life he's living at...


So very true. You should feel comfortable being who you are. If that means changing, then so be it. Humans and every other kind of species on earth evolve. Why do they do so? Because they don't seemed to have liked their old selves or out of practical needs.
apple
I don't have a problem with male/male or female/female relationships.

One of my best friends are gay and he has never seemed or been abnormal to me.

The main issue with gays/homosexuals is what they do in the bedroom. I don't see how that affects anyone else but those involved.

Whoever you take to bed once it does not affect your work or relationships should not be a problem. Then again this is just my view and I will never force it on another person.

Once children or any kind of sexual crime is involved, I say live and let live.

It is sad to think that a persons sexual preference will cause them to be seen as outcasts and force them to live lonely and most times depressed lives. Which as in the story above lead to suicide.

I believe if my son came to me and said that he's gay/homosexual I'd say ok. After all it's his body and his life to live...not so?
Billy Hill
Of course it's not ok to be gay.
Coen
Billy Hill wrote:
Of course it's not ok to be gay.

Could you please ellaborate?

giovle wrote:
Thanks for the message. I agree with you, all the way. It just pisses me off that there are people out there that think like that. I can only guess how it makes you pissed Smile
I thought that homosexual was less likely to be taken offensively, but as long as everybody's OK with it, it doens't matter that much. No?

What makes me mad is how narrow minded the father of the boy is and how narrow minded some other people are. Being gay isn't wrong. I know homosexual people myself and there's nothing wrong with them.
Billy Hill
Coen wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
Of course it's not ok to be gay.

Could you please ellaborate?


It's my opinion. And the opinion of millions of others.
giovle
Billy Hill wrote:
Coen wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
Of course it's not ok to be gay.

Could you please ellaborate?


It's my opinion. And the opinion of millions of others.


That's still not more eloborate Billy Hill. If the only reason you have a problem with it is that (in YOUR opinion) millions of others share your view, then that's not a real reason is it? Then your just a sheep running allong with the flock.
So I think Coen, and me also, want to know if you have any other reasons to back your opinion up.
giovle
apple wrote:
I don't have a problem with male/male or female/female relationships.

One of my best friends are gay and he has never seemed or been abnormal to me.

The main issue with gays/homosexuals is what they do in the bedroom. I don't see how that affects anyone else but those involved.

Whoever you take to bed once it does not affect your work or relationships should not be a problem. Then again this is just my view and I will never force it on another person.

Once children or any kind of sexual crime is involved, I say live and let live.

It is sad to think that a persons sexual preference will cause them to be seen as outcasts and force them to live lonely and most times depressed lives. Which as in the story above lead to suicide.

I believe if my son came to me and said that he's gay/homosexual I'd say ok. After all it's his body and his life to live...not so?


True! But I don't really understand what you mean by

Quote:
Once children or any kind of sexual crime is involved, I say live and let live.


Do you mean that if people commit a sexual crime you wouldn't do anything about it? And I really mean that I don't understand it Smile I'm not a native english speaker, so maybe that's to blame Wink
apple
giovle wrote:


True! But I don't really understand what you mean by

Quote:
Once children or any kind of sexual crime is involved, I say live and let live.


Do you mean that if people commit a sexual crime you wouldn't do anything about it? And I really mean that I don't understand it Smile I'm not a native english speaker, so maybe that's to blame Wink


I mean that once any same sex relationship does not involve crimes in which children are involved they can do whatever they like.
giovle
apple wrote:
giovle wrote:


True! But I don't really understand what you mean by

Quote:
Once children or any kind of sexual crime is involved, I say live and let live.


Do you mean that if people commit a sexual crime you wouldn't do anything about it? And I really mean that I don't understand it Smile I'm not a native english speaker, so maybe that's to blame Wink


I mean that once any same sex relationship does not involve crimes in which children are involved they can do whatever they like.


Ok now I understand Smile thanks. So if they don't do anything wrong to the children, it's ok... Alright, true.
Coen
giovle wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
Coen wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
Of course it's not ok to be gay.

Could you please ellaborate?


It's my opinion. And the opinion of millions of others.


That's still not more eloborate Billy Hill. If the only reason you have a problem with it is that (in YOUR opinion) millions of others share your view, then that's not a real reason is it? Then your just a sheep running allong with the flock.
So I think Coen, and me also, want to know if you have any other reasons to back your opinion up.

Correct. I want to hear a why, not that it's the opinion of millions of others. First, I already knew that and second it isn't ellaborating indeed.
kerryworkman
I think it is a sad commentary on our society when someones own father can't accept them for who they are. The question should be is it alright to be a religious zelot, who shuns your own family when your religious beliefs are challenged? What is more important to you the afterlife or the one you are living right now? Is God's acceptance of your son more important than your own? I was raised with the belief that all people are created equal, and should not be discriminated on for any reason. The idea that some people actually think like this father saddens me to no end. We are all people just trying to survive in this f***ed up world, why make it harder on anyone else just because they are different. You can believe that being gay is wrong all you want, but there is no reason to try to force your beliefs on someone else, or to try to change them to fit into your perfect little mold of what you believe is the right way to live your life. I am sorry if this comes across a little hostile, these are just my opinions, which I am passionate about. I have had many gay friends throughout my life, and none of them would cast the same judgement on you for the way you choose to live. In one of the earlier posts someone wrote "live and let live" I don't think it could be any simpler than that.
giovle
kerryworkman wrote:
I think it is a sad commentary on our society when someones own father can't accept them for who they are. The question should be is it alright to be a religious zelot, who shuns your own family when your religious beliefs are challenged? What is more important to you the afterlife or the one you are living right now? Is God's acceptance of your son more important than your own? I was raised with the belief that all people are created equal, and should not be discriminated on for any reason. The idea that some people actually think like this father saddens me to no end. We are all people just trying to survive in this f***ed up world, why make it harder on anyone else just because they are different. You can believe that being gay is wrong all you want, but there is no reason to try to force your beliefs on someone else, or to try to change them to fit into your perfect little mold of what you believe is the right way to live your life. I am sorry if this comes across a little hostile, these are just my opinions, which I am passionate about. I have had many gay friends throughout my life, and none of them would cast the same judgement on you for the way you choose to live. In one of the earlier posts someone wrote "live and let live" I don't think it could be any simpler than that.


Amen to that Smile
Billy Hill
Here are some facts:

1) It's not natural. Yeah, we know, animals do it, right? My dog humps other boy dogs, the boy cat, and even my leg from time to time. Does that mean he's gay? No. I kind of doubt it. More likely it's a natural reaction to certain stimuli or behavior.

2) It's not healthy. Ask a doctor.

3) It's not pro-creative to the species (ergo it's not natural (relates to 1) above))

4) It's not religiously acceptable.

Here's an opinion:

5) It's disgusting.
kerryworkman
Billy Hill wrote:
Here are some facts:

1) It's not natural. Yeah, we know, animals do it, right? My dog humps other boy dogs, the boy cat, and even my leg from time to time. Does that mean he's gay? No. I kind of doubt it. More likely it's a natural reaction to certain stimuli or behavior.

2) It's not healthy. Ask a doctor.

3) It's not pro-creative to the species (ergo it's not natural (relates to 1) above))

Here's an opinion:

4) It's disgusting.


Fair enough, it you opinion and as much as I don't like it you are entitled to it. However in reguards to your arguements:

1) You rebuke your own arguement, but stating that other creatures that do not have our ability to reason also partake in the activity.

2) Having sex for reproductive reasons is no healthier (straight people have std's too). In the case of lesbians where there is little or no penetration, it actually is probably healthier then straight sex.

3) True, it serves no reproductive value. Many of the times straight couples have sex there is no intention of concieving so is that also wrong?

4) To you it may be disgusting, so don't participate or watch and you wont have to worry about it.
giovle
Billy Hill wrote:
Here are some facts:

I don't really agree that these are in fact facts, but read on.

Billy Hill wrote:
1) It's not natural. Yeah, we know, animals do it, right? My dog humps other boy dogs, the boy cat, and even my leg from time to time. Does that mean he's gay? No. I kind of doubt it. More likely it's a natural reaction to certain stimuli or behavior.

You shouldn't compare humans to animals. Animals like to kill each other in order to expand territory, does that mean humans should go off and kill each other too? I don't think so. What's not natural about it? If it happens to be that someone likes someone else of the same gender, then that's something that happens naturally.

Billy Hill wrote:
2) It's not healthy. Ask a doctor.

I can imagine that doctors who share your opinion, may try and back this up, but any sensible one will reject such a statement. Therefor I challenge you to say what on earth would be unhealthy about it. And secondly, if it would (but it isn't) be unhealthy, why should you care? Because if they decide to be unhealthy, then that's their choice.

Billy Hill wrote:
3) It's not pro-creative to the species (ergo it's not natural (relates to 1) above))

This is the only thing that's kinda true. But that doesn't make it wrong. The human society is too complex to say that because something isn't pro-creative, it's wrong.

Billy Hill wrote:
4) It's disgusting.

In your opinion, that may be. But that has nothing to do with the fact that it's wrong or right.
Billy Hill
giovle wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
Here are some facts:

I don't really agree that these are in fact facts, but read on.

Billy Hill wrote:
1) It's not natural. Yeah, we know, animals do it, right? My dog humps other boy dogs, the boy cat, and even my leg from time to time. Does that mean he's gay? No. I kind of doubt it. More likely it's a natural reaction to certain stimuli or behavior.

You shouldn't compare humans to animals. Animals like to kill each other in order to expand territory, does that mean humans should go off and kill each other too? I don't think so. What's not natural about it? If it happens to be that someone likes someone else of the same gender, then that's something that happens naturally.


Humans AND animals kill for territory. Humans do it for religion, does that make religion un-natural? Whether or not you think it's ok for people or animals to kill over land is irrelevant. It happens world wide every single day. Sexual organs were created to make it possible to perform a natural act for procreation. Period. I'm not sure why it's so hard for (some) people to understand that.

Animals don't have sexual relationships for any reason other than to procreate.


Quote:
Billy Hill wrote:
2) It's not healthy. Ask a doctor.

I can imagine that doctors who share your opinion, may try and back this up, but any sensible one will reject such a statement. Therefor I challenge you to say what on earth would be unhealthy about it. And secondly, if it would (but it isn't) be unhealthy, why should you care? Because if they decide to be unhealthy, then that's their choice.


Um. Wrong. Ask any doctor if getting ****ed in the ass is a safe way to have sex. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Billy Hill wrote:
3) It's not pro-creative to the species (ergo it's not natural (relates to 1) above))

This is the only thing that's kinda true. But that doesn't make it wrong. The human society is too complex to say that because something isn't pro-creative, it's wrong.


Kind of true? See my first reply in this post.

Quote:
Billy Hill wrote:
4) It's disgusting.

In your opinion, that may be. But that has nothing to do with the fact that it's wrong or right.


Again, WTF do you mean "may be". It IS disgusting in my opinion. There's no "may be" about it. In my opinion, IT'S WRONG!

That doesn't stop me from being friends with (many) gays. Well, most of them are lesbos, that may have an affect on my willingness to party with them or camp with them, which I do often. Two of them are Law Enforcement Officers, BTW. Very Happy
Coen
Billy Hill wrote:
Here are some facts:

1) It's not natural. Yeah, we know, animals do it, right? My dog humps other boy dogs, the boy cat, and even my leg from time to time. Does that mean he's gay? No. I kind of doubt it. More likely it's a natural reaction to certain stimuli or behavior.

You counter your own argument here, humans are animals and are natural. If animals do it it is natural.

Billy Hill wrote:
2) It's not healthy. Ask a doctor.

Why should the health of other people concern you? Second of all, what's unhealthy about it? I can't think of anything that makes it more unhealthy then "normal" sex.

Billy Hill wrote:
3) It's not pro-creative to the species (ergo it's not natural (relates to 1) above))

True, however that also applies for sex that is just for lust. That isn't pro-creative either and yet that would be acceptable for you.

Billy Hill wrote:
4) It's not religiously acceptable.

Riligion is irrelevant. Religious arguments have no value whatsoever as they have no scientific meaning nor does everyone here share a religion. And I also need to point out that the texts in, for example, the bible are free to interpatation to whoever reads them. I can interpet them in such a way they don't forbid anything.

Billy Hill wrote:
Here's an opinion:

5) It's disgusting.

That is your opinion. The beauty of opinions is that they can differ. For homosexuals it isn't disgusting so for them that opinion would not have any value.
endless
i think it's ok to be gay. andjudging from what the father says , i guess he believes in god, and god created us, right? so if he makes us, he would be the one who gave us homosexual toughts, so i guess god is a little gay too Rolling Eyes so the father should've shut his mouth and accepted it
Billy Hill
Coen wrote:

You counter your own argument here, humans are animals and are natural. If animals do it it is natural.


So building nukes is natural?

So traveling in space is natural?

Building things out of plastic is natural?

Shall I go on, or can you admit you're confused?
Coen
Billy Hill wrote:
Coen wrote:

You counter your own argument here, humans are animals and are natural. If animals do it it is natural.


So building nukes is natural?

So traveling in space is natural?

Building things out of plastic is natural?

Shall I go on, or can you admit you're confused?

No, please go on. If you accept the fact that humans are natural then thus everything we do is natural to. Do not forget that I am continueing on your point, not my own.
imera
First: That father was stupid, narrow minded and just wrong. Changing the therapist because he thought he was wrong is stupid.
I was raised a Christian, but true the years I have lost my beliefs, in some way. Mostly itís because I think religions are wrong in some matters. Iím not saying that people who believe are wrong, but if they canít think themselves then they are just one of the sheep that do the same thing. I believe in what is good, so being gay is not wrong because you donít hurt anyone, what is wrong with loving someone.

My mother has a whole different opinion than me, she thinks itís unnatural to be gay, but she tells me that she would help them if they asked; she helps anyone if they need help.

There seem to be a lot of on and off on the question if itís right. Itís not right in religion, or the reproducing stage, but its right for love, for who you or anyone are. What about straight men? There are many that like to look at lesbian porno, but if two guys should kiss itís like the world is coming to and end. And for those that are so religious that being gay is some sin, what about living together without marriage, or having a kid outside the marriage. I think that everyone that judges someone else should stop and look at themselves, what makes them so great? Are they angels?

And about adoption part, everyone homosexual should be able to adopt, God knows there are many that are left there without any loving family, or a good life, so when someone are willing to adopt those children and give them something great then why not.

This was a bit messy but I write as I think, Iíll get back to this post when I get home.

But being homosexual is ok, I would never turn my back on anyone because they are homosexual, and if my future children would turn out to be homosexual then I would celebrate it because they had enough courage to tell me, many keep it hidden from everyone and then will get depressed, and that can lead to suicide.
Subsonic Sound
Billy Hill wrote:
Here are some facts:

1) It's not natural. Yeah, we know, animals do it, right? My dog humps other boy dogs, the boy cat, and even my leg from time to time. Does that mean he's gay? No. I kind of doubt it. More likely it's a natural reaction to certain stimuli or behavior.

2) It's not healthy. Ask a doctor.

3) It's not pro-creative to the species (ergo it's not natural (relates to 1) above))

4) It's not religiously acceptable.

Here's an opinion:

5) It's disgusting.


1) Well, that's a big haze of uncertainty, and 'natural' is such a relative term anyway. Posting on an internet forum isn't 'natural'. Does that mean we shouldn't do it?

2) Ah... elaborate further? Yes, there's an increased risk of STD transmission through anal sex - but not all gay couples engage in anal sex. Lesbian couples, for a start. And in fact health-wise, lesbian sex is FAR safer than heterosexual sex. And of course, it's also not healthy to smoke, eat hamburgers or any one of a million other things we all do every day. Heterosexual sex isn't that safe either, come to it.

3) True. But so what?

4) Not by your religion, no. Does everyone share your religious beliefs?

5) Alright, I'm not going to argue that one. But I also thing eating eggplant is disgusting. All that means is I'm not going to eat any eggplant. If someone else wants to, that's their problem.


All that said, there's one other important point. You're well within your rights to consider it disgusting. Consider it whatever you want. As long as you don't actively discriminate against those who don't agree with you...

As the old saying goes: 'The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins'.
cavey
Quote:
I told him how being gay would mean he would live a shorter life

Ironically it was not HIV that killed him...

I have nothing against homosexual people. I have nothing against heterosexual people either. I could not care less what grown up people do in their bedroom (or wherever they wish to do it), as long as no-one is forced or hurt.

People who has unprotected sex with one or 100 people is in danger of catching sexual diseases. That goes for heterosexual people too.

Two people of the same sex having sex. It's different. Not what I am used to. But so what? It's none of my business! If they love eachother, so nice for them! I'm happy for them! If its a one night stand, fine! Many "straight" people have one night stands. Many "straight" people use the "backdoor" too. Again, none of my business. And I don't care if their sex does not result in children. Should sterile people not have sex, for the same reason?

---

To reject your own child because your religion says so, is unnatural for me. Cruel!
apple
cavey wrote:
Quote:
I told him how being gay would mean he would live a shorter life

Ironically it was not HIV that killed him...

I have nothing against homosexual people. I have nothing against heterosexual people either. [size=18]I could not care less what grown up people do in their bedroom (or wherever they wish to do it), as long as no-one is forced or hurt.[/size]


You've nailed it on the head my friend!!
molif
straight forwardly saying...

NO.. Its not okay to be gay.. Its wrong..
giovle
molif wrote:
straight forwardly saying...

NO.. Its not okay to be gay.. Its wrong..


And why? Let's hear your reasons...
redhakaw
being gay is not bad, being drag queens: that's a different story.

Laughing
cavey
redhakaw wrote:
that's a different story.

That you want to tell us about? :)
Coen
molif wrote:
straight forwardly saying...

NO.. Its not okay to be gay.. Its wrong..

As giovle already said; please elaborate.
blinx
Well, I find it very strange when people say they cannot "accept" gays. How do you expect others to accept you? It's a personal choice, a personal decision. And if it truly is a sin, then let God judge. We are not ones to judge before God.

I'm not gay by the way. Razz I just feel quite strongly about this issue.
Coen
I understand your point. I am not gay either but I do feel stronly about it too.
I cannot believe any god would find being gay wrong, should there be a god.
Ah well, I'm curious to some of the arguments of people that do feel it's wrong and that haven't commented here yet.
giovle
Coen wrote:
I understand your point. I am not gay either but I do feel stronly about it too.
I cannot believe any god would find being gay wrong, should there be a god.
Ah well, I'm curious to some of the arguments of people that do feel it's wrong and that haven't commented here yet.


Indeed, I agree with you Coen and with blinx. I'm also not homosexual, but I tend to care for others around me. I can understand that someone has a different oppinion than my own, but only when they can give sensible reasons. Being against something just for the sake of being against it, or because someone you know is against it is dangerous thinking. Be critical about what you hear. Don't just accept another oppinion without agreeing with the reasons behind it.
Coen
Very true indeed. Funny thing is you hardly encounter any arguments or reasons why being gay is wrong except for the religious ones. It's funny how people can actually say something is wrong because it is written down in something they value. Even though other people who value the same writing say you shouldn't take everything very serious. What I also find funny is that there have been no more replies from the people that said it was wrong but didn't comment as to why it would be wrong.
giovle
Coen wrote:
Very true indeed. Funny thing is you hardly encounter any arguments or reasons why being gay is wrong except for the religious ones. It's funny how people can actually say something is wrong because it is written down in something they value. Even though other people who value the same writing say you shouldn't take everything very serious. What I also find funny is that there have been no more replies from the people that said it was wrong but didn't comment as to why it would be wrong.


That's true. There is, up till now, nobody who has come with sensible non-religious reasons as to why they say that being gay is not ok!
By the way, does anybody know a passage in the Bible, that tells you that people cannot be gay? If so, tell me about it, I'd love to discuss that! (if nobody comes up with one, in a few days, I'll tell you why Wink )
Coen
I know there is some passage in the bible that says something like: "You shall not sleep with a man in the same way as a woman."
It is free to interpetation though and I'm not entirely sure what it exacly says. Some of my classmates will probably know so I'll ask and see if I can find it after that. My knowledge of the bible isn't good enough for me to find it without asking Razz.
giovle
Coen wrote:
I know there is some passage in the bible that says something like: "You shall not sleep with a man in the same way as a woman."
It is free to interpetation though and I'm not entirely sure what it exacly says. Some of my classmates will probably know so I'll ask and see if I can find it after that. My knowledge of the bible isn't good enough for me to find it without asking Razz.


If you should happen to know, I'd like to know the passage where that's written. But I already have a few things in mind, that I can say about that, but first I need to read the passage myself Smile
Coen
Let me see. I forgot to ask and I've got holiday now. Lets see if I can simply find it by searching for it on the internet. Hmm. I did find something but I'm not sure if it was what I wanted to find. Anyway, I found this:

You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act. (Leviticus 18:22)

This doesn't prove anything to me though, it is simply an opinion and not some devine wisdom.
Klaw 2
I think its ok to be gay. These people are simply that way. It doesn't matter to me if you are gay or bi or an "a-sexual" (or something). Its just as these people are and the claim it's unhealthy, I don't think its true.

O and if being gay is bad, why would a god have created it then??
giovle
Klaw 2 wrote:
I think its ok to be gay. These people are simply that way. It doesn't matter to me if you are gay or bi or an "a-sexual" (or something). Its just as these people are and the claim it's unhealthy, I don't think its true.

O and if being gay is bad, why would a god have created it then??


Nice one Exclamation
giovle
Leviticus 18:22 wrote:
You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act.


Ok I did find that passage in the Old Testament. Let's examine this a little closer. First of all, God is the speaker in this case. He tells Moses that two men cannot have SEX together. Even if you do live according to the Bible, you can be IN LOVE WITH another man. Therefor being gay isn't wrong, even to God. The only thing the Bible tells us, is that God told us not to have sex with another man. In the same way, God told us not to have sex with relatives (incest).
I'm a Christian, but with a very critical view on the Bible. These two sayings might (I'm not saying that day do, but they MIGHT) originate somewhere else than God's mouth. It's is a scientific fact, that incest increases the chance of hereditary diseases. This is because your actually using the same gene-pool as your own. If there is a recessive hereditary disease built in your genome, there chance of it actually manifesting itself is much greater when two carriers of the recessive allels 'mate'.
Another fact is that the receptors for our immune system, are mainly located in the human rectum. This means that anal sex could in fact increase the risk of an infection. So it's not necessarily a commandement of God, but more like human knowlegde to prevent diseases or infections.

To counter the anal sex argument some people tend to use: straight people also have anal sex. So don't associate anal sex immediately with homosexual people.
Eric002
Of course it is all right to be gay... everybody have there sexuality... they make choices in there life some of them like it and thank them selves and some regret it but i find it perfectely normal that some people are gay or lesbians... Exclamation
Coen
giovle wrote:
Leviticus 18:22 wrote:
You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act.


Ok I did find that passage in the Old Testament. Let's examine this a little closer. First of all, God is the speaker in this case. He tells Moses that two men cannot have SEX together. Even if you do live according to the Bible, you can be IN LOVE WITH another man. Therefor being gay isn't wrong, even to God. The only thing the Bible tells us, is that God told us not to have sex with another man. In the same way, God told us not to have sex with relatives (incest).
I'm a Christian, but with a very critical view on the Bible. These two sayings might (I'm not saying that day do, but they MIGHT) originate somewhere else than God's mouth. It's is a scientific fact, that incest increases the chance of hereditary diseases. This is because your actually using the same gene-pool as your own. If there is a recessive hereditary disease built in your genome, there chance of it actually manifesting itself is much greater when two carriers of the recessive allels 'mate'.
Another fact is that the receptors for our immune system, are mainly located in the human rectum. This means that anal sex could in fact increase the risk of an infection. So it's not necessarily a commandement of God, but more like human knowlegde to prevent diseases or infections.

To counter the anal sex argument some people tend to use: straight people also have anal sex. So don't associate anal sex immediately with homosexual people.

I think you might have a valid point there. I have christians in my class and they all tell me the part about homosexual acts is free for interpetation. Simular to what you are doing now. As always, only the radicals see it as something that is totally forbidden "because the bible says so"
Eric002
What you say is true... Shocked
apple
giovle wrote:
Leviticus 18:22 wrote:
You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act.


Ok I did find that passage in the Old Testament. Let's examine this a little closer. First of all, God is the speaker in this case. He tells Moses that two men cannot have SEX together. Even if you do live according to the Bible, you can be IN LOVE WITH another man. Therefor being gay isn't wrong, even to God. The only thing the Bible tells us, is that God told us not to have sex with another man. In the same way, God told us not to have sex with relatives (incest).
I'm a Christian, but with a very critical view on the Bible. These two sayings might (I'm not saying that day do, but they MIGHT) originate somewhere else than God's mouth. It's is a scientific fact, that incest increases the chance of hereditary diseases. This is because your actually using the same gene-pool as your own. If there is a recessive hereditary disease built in your genome, there chance of it actually manifesting itself is much greater when two carriers of the recessive allels 'mate'.
Another fact is that the receptors for our immune system, are mainly located in the human rectum. This means that anal sex could in fact increase the risk of an infection. So it's not necessarily a commandement of God, but more like human knowlegde to prevent diseases or infections.

To counter the anal sex argument some people tend to use: straight people also have anal sex. So don't associate anal sex immediately with homosexual people.


As a Christian myself I am also critical of the bible and question many things in it.

I agree that many say its not ok to be gay cause god said so, I am sure some of the human translators slipped in their opinions also. After all we're all human, right?

Anyway this is not the religion board (least I am reprimanded)
giovle
Coen wrote:
As always, only the radicals see it as something that is totally forbidden "because the bible says so"


Actually, 'radicals' see a lot of things as totally forbidden, not because the Bible says so, but because there is an institution that tells them so. In catholiscism that would be the church and the pope. That's actually a great problem with christianity these days.
Coen
Very true. And not only with christianity. The problem lays with all the religious foundations and sometimes even with non-religious people too that claim some idiotic things. People don't think for themselves.
watersoul
Of course its ok to be gay!!!

Wow, judge a person on how nice they are not their sexual orientation - thats my view, and it still shocks me when I still see so much hatred against gay people in the world.
I always defend peoples rights if I'm involved in a conversation where someone says something sweepingly negative about gays, ethnic minorities whatever, for goodness sake it doesn't affect them or anyone else so worry about important things in life!

If my son turned out to be gay (he's still not teenage yet) I'd defend him and help support him with the challenges of being gay in a world with so many bigots. The only thing that would make me perhaps a little bit sad is that my chance of having grandchildren when I'm old would be lowered. I know one thing though, that he would talk to me and wouldn't be scared because we speak about these things anyway when he tells me what he hears in school.

I'm not gay myself, girls have always been my thing, but I pretty often go clubbing in a gay place in the town where I live. Excellent nights out, top tunes, great atmosphere and you can dance without moody, macho, beer swilling men staring looking for a fight! ...the only downside is I feel bad or guilty being there sometimes when I turn guys down who chat me up - but then It feels good as well though because I'd feel well ugly if no-one did!!

The sooner all the world starts caring about anger, violence, pain and suffering more and less about who sleeps with who, the sooner the world will be a better place.

Very Happy
jerredk
I don't hate gays but i don't like it. If they don't do something wrong i haven't problems with them. But there are place's full of them. Like Sitges or something in Spane. It isn't fun if you visit it.
apple
jerredk wrote:
I don't hate gays but i don't like it. If they don't do something wrong i haven't problems with them. But there are place's full of them. Like Sitges or something in Spane. It isn't fun if you visit it.


something wrong like what?
Coen
jerredk wrote:
But there are place's full of them. Like Sitges or something in Spane. It isn't fun if you visit it.

What's wrong with places that are full of them? If you know you don't like it then don't go there, it's easy.
giovle
Coen wrote:
jerredk wrote:
But there are place's full of them. Like Sitges or something in Spane. It isn't fun if you visit it.

What's wrong with places that are full of them? If you know you don't like it then don't go there, it's easy.


Yeah indeed, and that's a result of the hatred against homosexuals. Because people don't like them, they need to flock together in order to be able to belong to a group. If society doesn't like them, they create their own society ...
MadeinIndia
You can be what you want to be. No Government or Society has any right to question anyone's totally private preferences.

What you do in the closed space of your home/room/etc is none of anyone's business. Many societies have begun to respect this fact and are recognizing Gay marriages and rights. I hope all the countries in the world do this as soon as possible.
ciureanuc
this topic question sound like a commercial or song... it's ok, it's ok, it's ok... to be gay! it's ok, it's ok, it's ok... to be... GAY! FEEL THE RHYTHM! Smile

If you are gay, I think that you consider this ok, if you are "straight" and you don't like gay people, my opinion is this: what's your problem? Did gay persons did something wrong to you? And if so, how many "straight" people did the same? Smile

Personally I am "straight", I don't have any gay friend and even if I would have had one... I think that the most important thing would have been... the honesty.
Gay, not gay... my friends are not my girlfriends (or boyfriends). Smile

But I dislike gay parades: because "straight" people don't have "straight parades", ok? You are gay, ok. Why you have to tell this LOUD? I am "straight", I am not screaming this in public.
giovle
ciureanuc wrote:
this topic question sound like a commercial or song... it's ok, it's ok, it's ok... to be gay! it's ok, it's ok, it's ok... to be... GAY! FEEL THE RHYTHM! Smile

If you are gay, I think that you consider this ok, if you are "straight" and you don't like gay people, my opinion is this: what's your problem? Did gay persons did something wrong to you? And if so, how many "straight" people did the same? Smile

Personally I am "straight", I don't have any gay friend and even if I would have had one... I think that the most important thing would have been... the honesty.
Gay, not gay... my friends are not my girlfriends (or boyfriends). Smile

But I dislike gay parades: because "straight" people don't have "straight parades", ok? You are gay, ok. Why you have to tell this LOUD? I am "straight", I am not screaming this in public.


You're right, but the fact about straight people not having a parade, that's not right. Although it's not called that way, you have the Love parade and others. But if you think straight people should have one, we'll organize it Wink
Blackherox
Coen wrote:
Of course it's OK to be gay. It is accepted in normal day sociaty and therefor should not be challanged by anyone.


I disagree with this. First of what is ''normal'' society? There a plenty of different societies on this planet and whos to say which one os right or wrong, just because we percieve our society as ''normal'' or ''superior''. Second if people did not challenge what was current in scoeity, then there'd be no change in society in the first place. You only have to look at black history for evidence of this, they weren't exactly ''accepting'' normal day society. Society changes all the time.
Coen
Blackherox wrote:
Coen wrote:
Of course it's OK to be gay. It is accepted in normal day sociaty and therefor should not be challanged by anyone.


I disagree with this. First of what is ''normal'' society? There a plenty of different societies on this planet and whos to say which one os right or wrong, just because we percieve our society as ''normal'' or ''superior''. Second if people did not challenge what was current in scoeity, then there'd be no change in society in the first place. You only have to look at black history for evidence of this, they weren't exactly ''accepting'' normal day society. Society changes all the time.

A discussion about what is normal or not can be held everywhere about the term normal itself. Normal would be, commonly accepted. If we stick to that defenition of normal we'd see that sociaties that do not accept homosexual people are not accepted and thus can be seen as not normal.
alang
oh no !!! Surprised Surprised Surprised why i think about to it Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
emem
I don't mind if a person in gay, but if a gay acts really annoying it's really not good for the gay union Very Happy
Coen
emem wrote:
I don't mind if a person in gay, but if a gay acts really annoying it's really not good for the gay union Very Happy

You could say the same thing about straight people acting annoying but you don't really mind that as you're used to it.
JohnCarlo
The problem with most religious is that they had forgotten that we are taught TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER and not to judge and condemn one another.

I believe we have no right to say your soul will be lost if you do this and you do that, we are not God right? I believe only God has the position to do that.

We must look at everyone with love and acceptance without any form of discrimination and not with a condemning heart.
ainieas
Its the same as asking - is it alright to make your own choice? Of course its alright to be gay. As it is to be yourself. And its not like people choose to be gay - its a way of life. And no one has the right to say anything against it - or to quote scriptures.
nivinjoy
I don't and never think that it is right to become a gay...!! How strangely people thinks...???
kerryworkman
nivinjoy wrote:
I don't and never think that it is right to become a gay...!! How strangely people thinks...???


You should change your website tag line then "All are invited to join www.njoyzone.co.nr -The fun forum..and the entertainment and enjoyment zone..!!" to exclude people who are gay if you are so against it. Now a days they are becomming a much larger part of the all.
Coen
nivinjoy wrote:
I don't and never think that it is right to become a gay...!! How strangely people thinks...???


I think it'd be better to ask you "how strangely people can thinks" as we motivated our thoughts and you haven't plus the fact that the majority of the people here thinks it's OK. As normal can be defined as "accepted by the majority" you could say it's normal.

Anyway, please motivate why you think it's not right. That's the entire purpose of this thread.
LostOverThere
Its very interesting. For years now science has been proving that sexuality is determined at birth but discovered in the teen years yet many people still choose to believe that sexuality is a choice.
supjapscrapper
I don't have anything against gay people. But I certainly would be very offended if they were to display their affection sin fron of everybody like they usually do. In front of children etc.. And don't talk to me about gay culture or whatever, I could also talk to you about nazi architectural apports...I don't wann discuss what thy bring and what thy don't. Just let them live alone as long as they do not aggress others in their feelings by doing/showing things they just don't wanna know about. It is so against nature, so don't be a hypocrit. Most people think like this.
Bikerman
Err...no, I really don't think most people 'think like this'.
LostOverThere
supjapscrapper wrote:
I don't have anything against gay people. But I certainly would be very offended if they were to display their affection sin fron of everybody like they usually do. In front of children etc.. And don't talk to me about gay culture or whatever, I could also talk to you about nazi architectural apports...I don't wann discuss what thy bring and what thy don't. Just let them live alone as long as they do not aggress others in their feelings by doing/showing things they just don't wanna know about. It is so against nature, so don't be a hypocrit. Most people think like this.


Religion is like so right. I mean, screw all those sciencetists who have spent years and hundreds of thousands of dollars researching sexuality when we can just believe the good book. Wink
Coen
supjapscrapper wrote:
I don't have anything against gay people. But I certainly would be very offended if they were to display their affection sin fron of everybody like they usually do. In front of children etc.. And don't talk to me about gay culture or whatever, I could also talk to you about nazi architectural apports...I don't wann discuss what thy bring and what thy don't. Just let them live alone as long as they do not aggress others in their feelings by doing/showing things they just don't wanna know about. It is so against nature, so don't be a hypocrit. Most people think like this.

You are wrong here.

First of all, it isn't against nature. In the animal kingdom homosexuality is also encountered. It is of all ages and happens everywhere. Against nature? I think not.

Secondly, why not confront your children with it? I'm sure you wouldn't mind confronting them with straight people as long as they keep it decent, why not confront them with homosexuals too, as long as they keep it decent. I also disagree with the fact that most people think like this. As you can see in the topic, most people say it's OK to be gay so you would have to correct that argument.
supjapscrapper
I might have expressed myself wrongly in the post before. As long as they keep it decent of course, I could present them to my children, But I would certainly not trust my children to them and leave them alone wioth them. I do not think it is ok for a man to kiss or do more with another man in front of children. Nobody can really know what consequences it might have on the child.

secondly I also have to clarify my sentence again. In the post most poeople say it is ok of course, but my assertion was made out of my personal experience, from the people around me. Most of them are as young as me or younger (25). You may say that it is because my entourage most probably think like me. I would say that nobody can know, since UI don't choose them. a good friend of a guy who live in the same house as me was gay and I used to play music with them.

I would say all of this is a personal thing and as such it should stay personal. For example I wouldn't allow myself to get up anmd insult gay people or because socially or politically aggressive against them. Zhis is not the way people live in society.
Bikerman
supjapscrapper wrote:
I might have expressed myself wrongly in the post before. As long as they keep it decent of course, I could present them to my children, But I would certainly not trust my children to them and leave them alone wioth them. I do not think it is ok for a man to kiss or do more with another man in front of children. Nobody can really know what consequences it might have on the child.
Do you not think this is insulting to gay people? Why would a gay couple suddenly start kissing and canoodling when left alone with your children? Would a straight couple immediately start making-out when left as babysitters? Would that not be a problem, if they did?
Coen
Gay people don't reason any diffrent from straight people when it comes to love (except for the fact they love people from the same sex). A gay won't fall in love with every man same as I don't fall in love with every girl I happen to see. It's the same with sexual actions. Assuming that homsexual people would act diffrent then straight people is incorrect.
giovle
I've had some difficulties getting around on the internet this past few weeks due to stressful planning of my agenda Smile But I can see that my topic is really attracting new visitors.

The last few posts I sense that there are some misunderstandings that need to be clarified afterwards. So for future posts, may I ask everyone to elaborate as to why they have a certain oppinion or why the feel the way they do? And if you make a point out of something, make sure you explain it elaborate enough so that everyone is likely to get the idea behind the statement immediately. That'll help alot! Thx
giovle
supjapscrapper wrote:
I might have expressed myself wrongly in the post before. As long as they keep it decent of course, I could present them to my children, But I would certainly not trust my children to them and leave them alone wioth them. I do not think it is ok for a man to kiss or do more with another man in front of children. Nobody can really know what consequences it might have on the child.

Are you speaking out of personal experience? Have you encountered a gay couple yet, that didn't keep it decent in front of children for example? As to be able to leave your children alone with them, you could say that for everybody that you don't know well. But you only seem to have a problem with gay people. It's not that they're going to do anything wrong to the child, just because they're gay.
If I was to leave my child with someone to babysit it, I'd make sure I know that person before I did that. But that counts for everyone. I'd even say that gay people tend to be more caring than some of the heterosexual people I know.
Bikerman
There are some people who still think that gay people (particularly homosexual men) are more likely to be child-molesters than heterosexuals. This is based on centuries of misinformation, lies and bigotry. Most people nowadays accept that this is not the case, but there is still a lingering suspicion amongst some that there is 'no smoke without fire'.

Fortunately this is a claim which can be tested in a scientific manner to give a clear result. Many studies have been conducted into this claim over the last few decades and all but one have shown that there is no truth to the claim. The one dissenting study is frequently quoted by religious, and other anti-gay, proponents to 'prove' that homosexual men ARE more likely to be child-molesters. The study in question (by Paul Cameron;1985) is so deeply flawed that most serious researchers and scientists consider it to be essentially meaningless. On the other hand there are numerous studies, properly conducted, which show that the claim is bogus.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
giovle
Bikerman wrote:
There are some people who still think that gay people (particularly homosexual men) are more likely to be child-molesters than heterosexuals. This is based on centuries of misinformation, lies and bigotry. Most people nowadays accept that this is not the case, but there is still a lingering suspicion amongst some that there is 'no smoke without fire'.

Fortunately this is a claim which can be tested in a scientific manner to give a clear result. Many studies have been conducted into this claim over the last few decades and all but one have shown that there is no truth to the claim. The one dissenting study is frequently quoted by religious, and other anti-gay, proponents to 'prove' that homosexual men ARE more likely to be child-molesters. The study in question (by Paul Cameron;1985) is so deeply flawed that most serious researchers and scientists consider it to be essentially meaningless. On the other hand there are numerous studies, properly conducted, which show that the claim is bogus.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html


Nice way to show them Bikerman! Applause
giovle
Hi everybody,

Happy Easter! The conversation seems to have dried up a little. Ok to boost discussion a bit, let's discuss the following:

Quote:
If you voted 'No' on the poll, what is it about homosexuality that you disaprove, dislike, ...?


Please be elaborate about your statements, that'll greatly aid the discussion Smile

Bye!
LostOverThere
Good on ya Bikerman. Smile

supjapscrapper wrote:
I might have expressed myself wrongly in the post before. As long as they keep it decent of course, I could present them to my children, But I would certainly not trust my children to them and leave them alone wioth them. I do not think it is ok for a man to kiss or do more with another man in front of children. Nobody can really know what consequences it might have on the child.


That's rich, so its ok for a man and women to make out in front of children but not two men? Also, what massive consequence could that have on kids? That its ok to be gay? Man, I wouldn't want that to happen. Wink

Quote:
For example I wouldn't allow myself to get up anmd insult gay people

To late. Rolling Eyes
tennispro9911
it is definetly ok to be gay. Why should it matter what gender a person feels attracted to? Gay people are just as entitled to be with the people they wish to be with as streight people are.

I know alot of people don't like the idea of children being with gay people, but I really don't see the problem, especially in the case of a gay couple adopting a child. it would seem in that case that the gay couple is better for the child then its former parents, who either didn't want the child or couldn't for some reason. Aren't two loving gay parents better than two abussive streight parents?

I don't see anything wrong with gay people, and see them as complete equals. As said earlier, of course its ok to be gay, just like its ok be be streight.
adamsghost
alexandros_ch wrote:
its ok only if gay people dont involve children in their relationship

dad and dad welcome home!!!
adamsghost
Of course it is alright for two consenting adults to become involved romantically. We live in a society that discriminates just about wherever and whenever it can. The challenge is to right this wrong. We should appreciate the differences of each others cultures and lives. These differences are what make life interesting.

What a dismal place this world would be if we were all clones.
James_Hicks
It's all determined with the child's brain. Some kids are leaders, some are followers. Some know what they like and others need help in choosing. I have no problem with gay parenting. I have a friend that was raised with her gay dad and step-dad, she's married to a guy, has a kid, and has a completely normal life. It would be no different if a normal couple told their son that if he turned out gay that they would disown him. What if gay parents told their son that if he brought a girl home that they would disown him? It's all in how you were taught and raised. Don't blame it on all gay parents. It's okay to be gay.
karysky
I've nothing against gays, and I don't care whether or not they show affection in public, in front of children or anybody else.

Why would gay people need to hide themselves to love?

Love is love, and is itself beautiful. I'd much prefer having my children watch gays kissing than heteros killing each other with guns and knives.

And as a matter of fact, I'm a big fan of Torchwood, a british series, in which all 5 characters were seen having bisexual relations, and some of them, strong gay relations. I think the gay relationships are so more intense than hetero ones, that I sometimes wonder whether or not I'm a heterosexual female, or a homosexual man trapped inside a female body!

Razz
PennyLane
I don't know why gay people should be treated differently... They can't help beeing gay. They're just human as you and me, except that they prefer a relationship with a person of the same sex.
I also don't get why some religions are against gay people. I'm a catoholic and I cannot imagine Jesus wouldn't have wanted people to love eachother... But that's everyone's own religious vision...
johnny99
i find it hard to believe that prejudice against gay people (whether its religious or whatever else) is anything other than a symptom of insecurity/bitteness/fear/self-contempt on the part of the prejudiced person. why else even think about what consenting adults do for fun in private, let alone raise the issue for debate or protest about it or start hate campaigns. its laughable really (except that it isnt).

"you're nearly a laugh but you're really a cry" as roger waters might sum it up.
jcvincent75
I think it's okay to be gay. What is important is that you don't lose the respect of people around you. I know a lot of people who are gay. I was an active member of our community way back when I was still a student and I met a lot of gay people. Most of them are professionals and they really look respectable. Before that, I am really not favor of people being gay, but during those days I realized that gay people can do great things as well. I mean they can do even better things than other guy around. So, if you ask me if is it okay to be gay, then I would answer YES just don't lose people's respect to you.

Cheers!
kristine
I respect gay people its their choice and I feel happy for them Very Happy
Libby
Yes, of course it's okay.
PhiGamm
First off, I think it's completely fine to be gay. I have a handful of homosexual friends and they call each other "fags" and "queers" all the time. I guess it's like black people calling each other "niggers" they kind of just make a joke out of it (my gay friends) but I've never tried joining in fearing I might offend them. At the same time, they are the best wingmen I have ever had in my life! I pick out a girl and they go over and start with something like, "oh hunny I just love your shoes, and this is my friend PhiGamm..." its great.
I feel sorry for the boy and the father in the post. I think it's good that the father hasn't rejected his son completely and is just trying to press his personal views on the kid. I think his intentions are good but the way he's handleing the situation is all wrong.
psycosquirrel
I have no problem with homosexuals.

If someone wants to be gay, that's their business.

I even would go as far as saying gay couples deserve the same right as heterosexual couples. While this doesn't mean they should have a religious marriage (homosexuality is against most religions, obviously), I think gay couples deserve a civil marriage of some sort, with the same governmental benefits as a religious marriage.
Kelcey
Of course it's okay to be gay. You aren't harming anyone by doing so.
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