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System I'm Building: Suggestions:





Craeft
Ok.. here's what I am building. If you have any suggestions, I would love to hear em. Keep in mind that I am anti-ATI and anti-Intel. (Nvidia and AMD fan here).


Asus Crosshair Motherboard
AMD XP6400+ 2Xcore CPU
1 stick (for now) 2GB PC6400 Patriot
GeForce 8800GTX
7.1 Soundblaster
WD Caviar TB drive
Logitech G-9 Mouse (have the G7 currently)
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2020u monitor (currently in use)
Logitech z-5500 speaker system
Logitech G-15 keyboard (I have the older ones when they were cool. Wink )
Vista (Ick, but somewhat necessary)


As for the vid cards, I am thinking about running two of them SLI, but I think one would be plenty. I am just greedy.

What it will be used for:
• MMORPGs
• Video Editing
• Sound editing
• 3D graphics and animation
• Music Composition


Also, does anyone have any suggestions on a good CPU heatsink and fan that won't break the bank, since CPUs don't seem to come with the HS and fan anymore. Sad At least not this one.
ForceRun
First off you said you are anti Intel but you would get 20%+ if you use a Conroe. It is just that simple I use to be an AMD fan but the Conroe is just a super sweet CPU. And if you can wait a month the new Intel CPUs will be out and even better.

If you want SLi make sure you get a SLi mobo.

A wonderful advancement in system memory is Dual Channel. This very simply double your preformance. So you should always run memory in pairs, so get 2 1gb sticks. And if you want to run 4gb or more you need to run a 64bit OS.

Video Card - The second generation GeForce 8 are out so there is no reason to first generation cards. My 8800GT total out preforms my old 8800GTS 320. In fact with a little OC I got my card just a little under the preformance of a 8800GTX sli system. If you can't wait for the 9800 get either the 8800GT512 ($260) or the new* 8800GTS 512 ($340). They totally out pace the old 8800GTX.

Sound Card - Get the X-Fi it is a sweet card and it sounds so much better.

HD, Mouse, Monitor are up to you...

Make sure you get a strong 650+Watt PSU, 750+ if you really want to go SLi.

Also always make sure your case has good cooling.

As long as you get a retail CPU it will come with a heat sink. But if you want to OC everyone uses and is very happy with the Zalman 7900 CPU cool on sale some times for $40.
Craeft
ForceRun wrote:
First off you said you are anti Intel but you would get 20%+ if you use a Conroe. It is just that simple I use to be an AMD fan but the Conroe is just a super sweet CPU. And if you can wait a month the new Intel CPUs will be out and even better.


I am anti-intel because of experience with them. I have had nothing but problems with them... add to the fact that I don't trust the company. If you look at the benchmarks where Intel beats an equivalent AMD, in the fine print, it says "theoretical" benchmarks. Then you look at the actual run of the benchmarks, and the equivalent AMD blows the Intel in the dust. But really, as long as it does what I need, no worries here. My only real MAIN concern is my previous experience with Intels. But I will definitely check out that Conroe. I haven't done any research into that one.

Quote:


If you want SLi make sure you get a SLi mobo.



Yep. The Crosshair claims SLi. Interestingly, though, this question about that mobo has come up on a few forums. however, on asus' site, it says that it is SLi compat. That was one of the reasons I chose that one... that, and it's just a damned sweet mobo for the price.

Quote:

A wonderful advancement in system memory is Dual Channel. This very simply double your preformance. So you should always run memory in pairs, so get 2 1gb sticks. And if you want to run 4gb or more you need to run a 64bit OS.


That's actually what I was thinking, but wasn't sure of the importance of it. What sucks then, is that I have this sweet 2gig stick... and can't find another one. If nothing else, i guess there's eBay. I can always resell it and pick up two 1gigs. My goal was to get 4 2gigs. As for the OS, I know. That's why I said "Vista (Icky...)" hehehe

Quote:

Video Card - The second generation GeForce 8 are out so there is no reason to first generation cards. My 8800GT total out preforms my old 8800GTS 320. In fact with a little OC I got my card just a little under the preformance of a 8800GTX sli system. If you can't wait for the 9800 get either the 8800GT512 ($260) or the new* 8800GTS 512 ($340). They totally out pace the old 8800GTX.


I was actually gonna get the 7950 1gig card, but the core clock on the 8800GTX is faster and outperforms the 7950. However, I did a lot of research into the GPU (mainly because of what I do), and all the info I gathered, both from manufacturers and users alike, shows the 8800GTX to be the best one out there. The core clock is faster than the GT or GTS and no need to OC the card.

Quote:

Sound Card - Get the X-Fi it is a sweet card and it sounds so much better.


Hmmm.. I don't think I saw that one. You have a link you can toss me for it? I already have the sound card, but sound cards are cheap compared to the rest of the system... I can always pick up a second card and put the one I bought into my current system.

Quote:

HD, Mouse, Monitor are up to you...

Make sure you get a strong 650+Watt PSU, 750+ if you really want to go SLi.


Quite. I have a 650 now. I was looking at the 750W, but thought it overkill. And if worse comes to worse, I build HAM radios and such too, and you don't want to know the number of power supplies I have laying around just "in case" I want to have some fun and see some smoke. Oops. I... umm... you read nothing.

Seriously though... can I ask what the need for so much power if SLi is? I am asking out of genuine ignorance in the SLi field. What makes it eat so much more power?

Quote:


Also always make sure your case has good cooling.


That was one of the first things I bought and looked for. hehe... I got the Raidmax Sagitta and am using it as a base, and then I am putting Heatsink fins from a HAM radio along the outside of the acrylic, and am gonna use the factory case fans as they are intended, and then I have a pair of small (50mm) fans that I converted to DC power that I will be pairing up off the power supply, attached to the acrylic (from inside) blowing outward onto the sink fins. Don't ask. It'll be neat. And that, as we know, is all that matters. hehehe

Quote:

As long as you get a retail CPU it will come with a heat sink. But if you want to OC everyone uses and is very happy with the Zalman 7900 CPU cool on sale some times for $40.


I prefer to not OC if I can help it. But actually, the AMD XP 6400+ doesn't come with heat sink. Must be purchased separately. Unless you know something I don't. I've tried New Egg, Fry's Electronics, Best Buy (which is pretty useless in terms of CPUs anyway), and various other places. No one sells them with sinks or fans. Sad If you know of a place that does, by all means, let me know. Smile


Thanks much for the response and input. I will have to do some of that research and check those out. If you could drop me a link to that audio card, that would be excellent!

Thanks again. Smile
mOrpheuS
Craeft wrote:
If you look at the benchmarks where Intel beats an equivalent AMD, in the fine print, it says "theoretical" benchmarks. Then you look at the actual run of the benchmarks, and the equivalent AMD blows the Intel in the dust. But really, as long as it does what I need, no worries here. My only real MAIN concern is my previous experience with Intels. But I will definitely check out that Conroe. I haven't done any research into that one.

Your market research is a little outdated. I'd love to see a recent article where an AMD processor beats an Intel Core processor.

"equivalent AMD blows the Intel in the dust" - is 2000-2005.
Ever since the introduction of Conroe (the codename for the first gen Core2Duo processors) Intel actually has the better processors.

Infact the Core2Duo processors are so good, AMD had to cut the prices of its processors by over 60-70% to "keep up" - which is mainly the reason why the 6400+ is now actually affordable.

Nothing can be done about your past "bad experiences" but Intel E6750 is a faster, cooler, more energy efficient and a cheaper CPU than the AMD 6400+ ... and that's only stock. Link
And while the AMD6400+ is already pushed up against its ageing 90nm core's max clock of 3.2GHz, the Intel E6750 will over clock to ~3.6GHz as easily as you wishing for it - at stock voltage !


By the way, 8800GTX is a G80 GPU based card.
The 8800GT and the newer 8800GTS 512 MB (NOT the older 320 or 640MB models) are both based on the G92 GPU, which is much better.

The G92 based 8800GT performs as good as a 8800GTX and costs only half as much.
It's one of those extreme performance-to-price value cards that only come out rarely (remember the GeForce TI's ?)
Craeft
mOrpheuS wrote:
Craeft wrote:
If you look at the benchmarks where Intel beats an equivalent AMD, in the fine print, it says "theoretical" benchmarks. Then you look at the actual run of the benchmarks, and the equivalent AMD blows the Intel in the dust. But really, as long as it does what I need, no worries here. My only real MAIN concern is my previous experience with Intels. But I will definitely check out that Conroe. I haven't done any research into that one.

Your market research is a little outdated. I'd love to see a recent article where an AMD processor beats an Intel Core processor.


I sense a touch of "snide" in your post. But here's the deal. Apparently, you didn't see the part where I said "in the fine print... it says theoretical yada yada yada". I am building a computer for gaming and for multi-media design... not for excel and spreadsheets, which is pretty much the usefulness of an Intel without OCing it.

Quote:

"equivalent AMD blows the Intel in the dust" - is 2000-2005.

Interesting. I was researching the 64-bit 2Xcores that didn't come out pre-2005.

Quote:

Ever since the introduction of Conroe (the codename for the first gen Core2Duo processors) Intel actually has the better processors.


Well.. as I said, I didn't check out anything by the name of "conroe".

Quote:

Infact the Core2Duo processors are so good, AMD had to cut the prices of its processors by over 60-70% to "keep up" - which is mainly the reason why the 6400+ is now actually affordable.


Now THIS, I find very hard to believe that a CPU was "so good" that the lead manufacturer of high end CPUs had to nearly give theirs away for free. Not saying you're wrong.. just saying I have a hard time believing it. For one, I never remember AMD's 2xcores being much more than they are now. Not alone, anyway. Typically, the way marketing works is, "your competition drops price, you drop price."

Quote:

Nothing can be done about your past "bad experiences" but Intel E6750 is a faster, cooler, more energy efficient and a cheaper CPU than the AMD 6400+ ... and that's only stock.
Link
And while the AMD6400+ is already pushed up against its ageing 90nm core's max clock of 3.2GHz, the Intel E6750 will over clock to ~3.6GHz as easily as you wishing for it - at stock voltage !


And there's the trick.. OCing.. which I plainly stated I would prefer not to do. So there's the point. You have to OC an Intel to equate to an AMD! NOW I'm with ya. Smile And so ya know... the 3.2GHz for the 6400+ is not at OC. Wink

Quote:

By the way, 8800GTX is a G80 GPU based card.
The 8800GT and the newer 8800GTS 512 MB (NOT the older 320 or 640MB models) are both based on the G92 GPU, which is much better.


They are much better. I agree... but those were the ones that I was comapring the 8800GTX to.

Quote:

The G92 based 8800GT performs as good as a 8800GTX and costs only half as much.
It's one of those extreme performance-to-price value cards that only come out rarely (remember the GeForce TI's ?)


I am curious as to how something with a slower core clock and less memory will rival something with superior specs. Not being a wiseass here. Just asking.




Now... with all that said... if you weren't being snide in your response, as it seemed, then I apoligize for my retalitory snideness. I blame it on the nicotine fit.
mOrpheuS
Craeft wrote:
Apparently, you didn't see the part where I said "in the fine print... it says theoretical yada yada yada".

I read your whole post.
Apparently, you didn't notice that there is no such fine print.

Craeft wrote:
Interesting. I was researching the 64-bit 2Xcores that didn't come out pre-2005.

You're right, Core2Duo's debuted in summer 2006, when 64-bit 2xcore AMD's were around. My bad.
But that's still a long time back to be unaware of it.

Craeft wrote:
Well.. as I said, I didn't check out anything by the name of "conroe".

That's what tells me that your market research is dated.
The release of Core2Duo processors is the one of the biggest hardware news of the recent past.


Craeft wrote:
Now THIS, I find very hard to believe that a CPU was "so good" that the lead manufacturer of high end CPUs had to nearly give theirs away for free. Not saying you're wrong.. just saying I have a hard time believing it. For one, I never remember AMD's 2xcores being much more than they are now. Not alone, anyway. Typically, the way marketing works is, "your competition drops price, you drop price."

The following is just the first installment of the numerous price-cuts by AMD since the introduction of Core2Duo.
ITWire wrote:
AMD has slashed prices by more than half on its high end Athlon 64 X2 chips in response to superior benchmark performances from the new generation Intel Core 2 Duo chips.
Link and one more

Since, they don't have a competent processor architecture, AMD've been resorting to cutting prices increasing clocks on the same core ever since to keep up. (reminiscent of the Intel of 2000-2005)

After many price-cuts, X2-5000+ AM2 that used to cost around $700 at that time - now costs only about $100.

Craeft wrote:
I am building a computer for gaming and for multi-media design... not for excel and spreadsheets, which is pretty much the usefulness of an Intel without OCing it.
Craeft wrote:
And there's the trick.. OCing.. which I plainly stated I would prefer not to do. So there's the point. You have to OC an Intel to equate to an AMD! NOW I'm with ya. Smile And so ya know... the 3.2GHz for the 6400+ is not at OC. Wink

Shocked Where did that come from ? Where ?!
If you'd only stop being the fanatic, you'd find that it's actually quite the opposite - The AMD6400+ overclocked to the max is still not able to keep up with the Intel E6750, which is running at stock speed of 2.66GHz - in any kind of application, including games.

It pains me to have to repeat it when you're not even remotely interested in reading, but here you go anyway -
tomshardware wrote:
Even AMD’s new high-end model is unable to compete or even keep up with Intel’s Core 2 Duo processors.

AMD is unable to close the gap to Intel’s fastest dual-core processor, the Core 2 Duo E 6850. Instead, it trails the performance of its rival by an average of 13.7%.

Intel’s second-fastest model, the E6750, costs about € 170, making it about € 70 cheaper. Still, AMD’s 6400+ is unable to surpass this processor, proving 5.7% slower on average.







Craeft wrote:
Quote:
By the way, 8800GTX is a G80 GPU based card.
The 8800GT and the newer 8800GTS 512 MB (NOT the older 320 or 640MB models) are both based on the G92 GPU, which is much better.


They are much better. I agree... but those were the ones that I was comapring the 8800GTX to.

And is there also a specific reason why you chose an older GPU over a newer, better one ?


Craeft wrote:
I am curious as to how something with a slower core clock and less memory will rival something with superior specs. Not being a wiseass here. Just asking.

And I'm curious as to how you make such statements -

The G92 based 8800GTS and 8800GT are both clocked higher than 8800GTX.

For the record, a single 8800GT is not as fast as a 8800GTX - it is slower by about 10-15%.
But consider the fact that it only costs half as much.
You can get a couple of 8800GT for SLI for the same price, and you'll see a huge performance benefit over a 8800GTX. Link


Craeft wrote:
Now... with all that said... if you weren't being snide in your response, as it seemed, then I apoligize for my retalitory snideness. I blame it on the nicotine fit.

And I apologize if I sounded "snide" while trying to be helpful. Atleast in my last post.


But seriously, I don't see the reason why you'd want to get relatively slower hardware for your hard earned money.
Fanaticism cannot possibly make you settle for anything but the best for your money, can it ?
I used AMD when they reigned supreme, now I use Intel - not because I like the way "AMD" or "Intel" sound to my ears - but I choose what gives me the most bang for the buck.

But then again, it's your money afterall ... spend it in good health. Cool


edit - added link to AMD price-cut news article and fixed typos.
tempdbs
@morpheus Razz,

Such a gigantic explanation....
Good to see and learn many misc things....

Good dude... Cool
liamthebof
I would go for Geil ram, more speed for your money. My personnel recomendation.

(Also use Intel but I wont got there)
fadirocks
I still stay with AMD it's pretty cheap Smile if you like to spend little bit more and get the Phenom it would be nice Smile
Also you can get SLi for your vids and double card it! or you can wait for upcoming ATI that has 2GPUs on same board!!!
emem
Really, the intel should be the choice... I mean, AMD is quite slower in comparison to Intel's Core 2 duo.

Ram take PC8500, the PC6400 will be quite out of date.

Graphic card take 8800GTS 512Mb G92, it's cheaper and newer than 8800GTS. I'm not sure if it's also faster.
ForceRun
Yeah mOrpheuS has the right info. Just go to Tomshardware.com, or heck any tech site will say the same thing. The Core 2 Duo and 8800 GT or GTS (G92 Core) are the way to go. It is just a currect fact of life. Better for gaming and for overall performance. Little while back i compared a Conroe system (my old E6600) to my brothers brand new system he won at a Lan that would have cost 4 times as much being a quad system (2x FX-74) and the conroe smoked it. Plus the power bill went up from using the AMD system that it was sold and he got a Conroe system and 8800GT with money left over. Fun times...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102005 Here is the sound card I have. And if you don't feel you need the extra features and the onboard ram here is the basic model: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102007
aaron552
Craeft wrote:
Keep in mind that I am anti-ATI and anti-Intel. (Nvidia and AMD fan here).


Did you know that ATi IS AMD?

But that doesn't matter that much... since the nVidia 8800GT is looking to be the best graphics card to buy at the moment[/b]
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