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Ideas to Improve Frihost and the Quality of its Posts





simplyw00x
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-1086.html
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-21.html

Whilst I realise threads like the above are somewhat necessary for reducing the number of low-quality posts, I don't think it's really fair that a reply to a 41-page thread saying something like
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Firefox FTW!!! itsa got Lots of Addons and Great Security, and FF3 on the way Wink

actually gets any hosting points at all. Surely we want to set the bar for getting and maintaining hosting slightly higher?

Perhaps there could be a 'vote' button with each post, and you don't get anything from a post until at least one person votes for it, thus signifying that someone found it useful. Rather than length, people could be rewarded for making posts that several people voted on (up to, say, 10 votes, to prevent overly-high concentration of votes on a few posts).

Not only would this prevent people from making inane posts just to keep their hosting, it would build a reputation for Frihost as an up-market community and attract a group of people that would be more beneficial to the forums.

Any responses to these ideas (other than technical "issues" --- I know exactly how hard this would be in PHPBB and think it's important enough to warrant the work).
garionw
The thing about the two topics you pointed out are that they are for some fun.

And as long as they don't repeat what they said 6 pages back, I don't think that its a problem
simplyw00x
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And as long as they don't repeat what they said 6 pages back, I don't think that its a problem

No-one reads the whole threads because they're too long and there's nothing worth reading (just expressions of preference). Hence of course people repeat what's already said --- go to 5 random pages from either thread and try to find something worthwhile.
rvec
yeah there are some people who copy a random post from one of the middle pages and post it as if it's their own. If I find one I always search for some other random posts the user made in big topics, and when it happens a lot the user will be banned.

Also users posting at those kind of topics only won't get hosting and might get it suspended if they have hosting. You can get points with posting in those big topics but it's not half the amount you get if you make a big post.
scotty
I think it would be a good idea to have a voting system for monitoring the quality of posts. We should be able to go and click on posts that a bad and they have points removed or something along those lines.
simplyw00x
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If I find one I always search for some other random posts the user made in big topics, and when it happens a lot the user will be banned.

Surely you should only reward useful posts as opposed to trying to have admins sift through 40-page threads to find people too lazy to even write their own line of inane spam.

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You can get points with posting in those big topics but it's not half the amount you get if you make a big post.

So? If someone has hosting but gets it by posting twice as much as other people in these threads then they're making Frihost a much worse place to be and still getting rewarded for it.

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We should be able to go and click on posts that a bad and they have points removed or something along those lines.

Negative voting is much more open to abuse --- we already have a 'report' feature. I personally don't think people should get whatever the minimum is (1.5F$ or something?) unless at least one person actually finds the post useful.
scotty
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We should be able to go and click on posts that a bad and they have points removed or something along those lines.

Negative voting is much more open to abuse --- we already have a 'report' feature.[/quote]
The reporting function is more aimed at deleting posts which are against TOS or spam. I want to be able to "report" posts which are totally useless while within the rules.
simplyw00x
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I want to be able to "report" posts which are totally useless while within the rules.

If they're that useless you can probably report it as spam. But I agree that it woudl be nice to mark posts 'bad' without being 'wrong'.
ocalhoun
simplyw00x wrote:


Perhaps there could be a 'vote' button with each post, and you don't get anything from a post until at least one person votes for it, thus signifying that someone found it useful. Rather than length, people could be rewarded for making posts that several people voted on (up to, say, 10 votes, to prevent overly-high concentration of votes on a few posts).

Well, given the three constants of human culture (laziness, stupidity, and horniness), I can raise an objection to that: People would be too lazy to vote for other users' posts. Why should you vote for the posts anyway? Then we get into an environment where nobody is getting enough points because nobody is voting for enough posts.
So, let's suppose 1/4 quality posts get voted for. (The actual ratio would probably be much lower) For a user to get any points, he/she would have to make four times as many posts to get the same amount of points, even if all the posts were high-quality.

Also, it would be difficult in coding to make a way to vote that wouldn't make the voting process slow the process of reading the forums tediously slow, which would in turn reduce the amount of posting going on.
furtasacra
I think it's okay the way it is. Sometimes I make long, well-thought out responses to a complicated topic. Sometimes I just put in my two cents about something silly. It just depends on what catches my eye, or what kind of mood I'm in, just like any other forum.
LukeakaDanish
To prevent people from posting stupid stuff on page 23 it might help to calculate points given by something like:

normal points - (number of posts in topic / 100)

If the answer to that is < 0 then just round to 0.
rvec
LukeakaDanish wrote:
To prevent people from posting stupid stuff on page 23 it might help to calculate points given by something like:

normal points - (number of posts in topic / 100)

If the answer to that is < 0 then just round to 0.

*Thinks about the "[official] Thank the Frihost Staff" thread*
I don't like the idea.
simplyw00x
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I can raise an objection to that: People would be too lazy to vote for other users' posts.

Ok, good point, and perhaps only getting points for voted-upon posts is a bad idea, but it's difficult to imagine a more effective method of weeding out nonsense than disregarding posts that no-one finds useful.

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Also, it would be difficult in coding to make a way to vote that wouldn't make the voting process slow

You're absolutely right. AJAX is well-known not to exist, and if it did it would be impossible to use. I mean Slashdot and Digg would be all over that technology if it existed Rolling Eyes

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To prevent people from posting stupid stuff on page 23 it might help to calculate points given by something like:

How would this prevent retarded posts in short threads? Or retarded threads? Or penalise people that post on page 2 of an 88-page trash tread?

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The thing about the two topics you pointed out are that they are for some fun.

Some fun == getting hosting? Why?

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*Thinks about the "[official] Thank the Frihost Staff" thread*

You think people should get days of free hosting for writing crap like "THANX GUYS GREAT JOB"? Right.
LukeakaDanish
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Quote:
To prevent people from posting stupid stuff on page 23 it might help to calculate points given by something like:

How would this prevent retarded posts in short threads? Or retarded threads? Or penalise people that post on page 2 of an 88-page trash tread?


It wouldn't, but it would be an automated way of penalizing posting in topics which have a significant amount of posts already...which often means the post will be rubbish. (in my opinion, though open to discussion of course Smile). Automated means reasonably easy to implement and means users will feel the benefit of posting good thread immediately (important in my opinion)



Here's another idea I had. Basically some posts do naturally run on for some pages while members discuss things (I'm thinking political forum and similar), and members do at times deserve to get hosting points from posting in page 8+ of those topics. So if the point generator used something like this model, long (almost always a sign of quality) posts would get the reward they deserve. Short posts with no meaning ("I like icecream too!!! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil") would get close to 0 points - which is what they deserve.

There is no automated way to catch bad posts early in a thread, so as you point out that would have to be user moderated. I do not like the idea of people having to vote for you to get points though. It's biased in several ways:

  • Vote for me and I'll vote for you exploit is unavoidable
  • Good posts anywhere but the top of the first page of a topic will not give the user anything (19/20 users don't get further before replying or changing page)
  • If people disagree with you, you wont get points. This means that all though you might be posting very high quality posts in for example the political forum, you won't get any points because no one agrees with you. Hardly fair.
  • One good post *may* get you loads of votes (I'm thinking 100+ in a couple of days) but it will be very difficult to consistently get good posts. Frihost would shrink dramatically unless people got accustomed to voting LOADS.

I think a better solution would be for everyone to just report loads more posts. I report loads of posts/topics/users and I'm certain that if everyone did this a significant amount of the retarded posts would cease to be created - coz users would realize they'll get reported anyway.

Hope that counts as a good post Razz

- Luke

PS: plz vote ++ my msg, all if you like, I vote for u Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil)))

Yea, that would really make this place less retarded Rolling Eyes
rvec
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You think people should get days of free hosting for writing crap like "THANX GUYS GREAT JOB"? Right.

Cool Nothing to say there Smile

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I report loads of posts/topics/users and I'm certain that if everyone did this.....

Shocked More workload Razz

I have to agree with luke. There is no way you can get something automated to see if a post has enough quality. If there was a way we'd already use it for the account handling. And any manual thing you want to do like voting or removing has to be done by a group you can trust, which atm should be the staff Razz.

Maybe a small group of valuable members should have some permissions to give away points for good posts with a max of one point per user per week or something like that.
simplyw00x
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Vote for me and I'll vote for you exploit is unavoidable

Ban anyone who asks for this, instantly. Fairly simple.

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I report loads of posts/topics/users

So do I, but currently one gets no feedback about what your report resulted in which makes it not at all rewarding to do so.

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There is no automated way to catch bad posts early in a thread, so as you point out that would have to be user moderated

There is no automated way to catch bad posts.

Ok, so you're right that 'get voted to host' is bad, but I still think user moderation is key --- perhaps a system like slashdot?
LukeakaDanish
simplyw00x wrote:
perhaps a system like slashdot?


Thats user moderated user voting isn't it?

The problem is posts that receive less attention would get no votes (or not that many votes anyway) and topics that get lots of attention (think "do you like icecream" topic in general) will get loads of votes, even if the quality sucks.

I have to agree with you though, a quick note about what action is taken due to a report would be VERY nice!
Sillyman
simplyw00x wrote:

Quote:
The thing about the two topics you pointed out are that they are for some fun.

Some fun == getting hosting? Why?


The way I see it is Some fun+Makes ads load, causing Frihost to get the money it needs=getting hosting. The reason we have to post on this forum is to make the ads give Frihost money. Quality posts just make us more likely to visit the forum even when we have nothing to post and make it inviting to new people.
LukeakaDanish
Sillyman wrote:

The way I see it is Some fun+Makes ads load, causing Frihost to get the money it needs=getting hosting. The reason we have to post on this forum is to make the ads give Frihost money. Quality posts just make us more likely to visit the forum even when we have nothing to post and make it inviting to new people.

You are slightly wrong there. When YOU are on the forums and logged in, there are no adds. When you type quality posts, you improve the forums position on google. When guests visit frihost from google, THEY click adds and that makes money for frihost.

Posting lame posts will not do anything for the frihost position on google.

Therefore quality posts are important, and should be rewarded.
rvec
and besides making money for frihost, quality posts also have the nice side effect to help in creating a nice community Smile

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I have to agree with you though, a quick note about what action is taken due to a report would be VERY nice!

It's a nice idea but if there are 10 reports now I can look through them and at least handle most. If there are 10 reports and I have to tell the reporting user(s) what happened I don't know how many I'll handle.
tidruG
scotty wrote:
The reporting function is more aimed at deleting posts which are against TOS or spam. I want to be able to "report" posts which are totally useless while within the rules.
And who said you can't do that? O.o You can report utterly useless posts, and if they are completely useless, we cen get rid of them.

Now, about voting... It's not really a very good idea. The intent is good, but the implementation will be sticky. If we implement that system, we'd depend on people willingly wasting their time voting on posts. Each thread may have upto 10-15 posts per page. A user would have to vote 15 times each page to give points to those votes, and it doesn't work that way with the voting systems on other forums. You only give selected votes to posts which are really good, generally, like positive karma. Most people don't go distributing positive karma or positive votes so easily.

As for the reports, the reason we don't have a method to get back to the reporter is because if we had to, it would take too much time to type a reply. If you want, what we CAN try to do is to make an automated and generic reply (perhaps via PM), saying that your report has been handled by someone in the staff.

If you want to weed out bad posts, discourage silly topics. Having topics like "Which browser do you use?" are useless now. There are too many topics there anyway, no one really cares about what browser someone else is using. The only reason I haven't removed such topics is because they're a safe place for new users to post... what I mean to say is that they can post there till they get the hang of the forums and have a look around. Of course, you don't get hosting by posting in those topics. I'll make a proposal to have such threads removed, though. Perhaps what we could do is to set a time-limit on those kind of threads, and then close them once they've become useless and only hog memory and space.
simplyw00x
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The way I see it is Some fun+Makes ads load, causing Frihost to get the money it needs=getting hosting.

As "LukeakaDanish" said, this is rubbish. What's more, a bad environment full of useless posts is going to drive away members, and particularly the kind of members frihost wants (i.e. not retards).

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and besides making money for frihost, quality posts also have the nice side effect to help in creating a nice community Smile

Good point --- Frihost is trying to build a community as well as a business.

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It's a nice idea but if there are 10 reports now I can look through them and at least handle most. If there are 10 reports and I have to tell the reporting user(s) what happened I don't know how many I'll handle.

Automated notification? If I report a post it's not hard for me to be notified if the post is deleted/edited/moved by a moderator.

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If we implement that system, we'd depend on people willingly wasting their time voting on posts.

Ever been on Digg? People *do* "waste" their time voting on posts.

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If you want, what we CAN try to do is to make an automated and generic reply (perhaps via PM), saying that your report has been handled by someone in the staff.

That would be wonderful.

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Of course, you don't get hosting by posting in those topics.

Is that a fact? If so, I think that's an excellent system.

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Perhaps what we could do is to set a time-limit on those kind of threads, and then close them once they've become useless and only hog memory and space.

I would say leave them open --- as you say, they're a good place for new users to post and if they were closed/deleted you'd get a flood of similar topics appearing. Just make absolutely sure people get nothing for spamming them...
rvec
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Automated notification? If I report a post it's not hard for me to be notified if the post is deleted/edited/moved by a moderator.

This might be a bit hard to code but just a pm when the report is handled should be possible. Although it will not contain any more info than some generic message like "Your report..........about............ has been handled by .....".

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Of course, you don't get hosting by posting in those topics.

You don't get hosting if you post in those topics only. But you'll get points for it.
tidruG
simplyw00x wrote:
Ever been on Digg? People *do* "waste" their time voting on posts.
That's because it's Digg. People digg stuff to make sure it shows on the website. Frihost is not digg. We're not displaying the most voted for posts, we're not giving extra traffic to the threads that get the highest votes, etc etc.

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Of course, you don't get hosting by posting in those topics.

Is that a fact? If so, I think that's an excellent system.

Well, you don't get a new hosting account that way for sure.

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I would say leave them open --- as you say, they're a good place for new users to post and if they were closed/deleted you'd get a flood of similar topics appearing. Just make absolutely sure people get nothing for spamming them...
Unfortunately, we can't disable points for individual threads, only forums.
LukeakaDanish
tidruG wrote:
Unfortunately, we can't disable points for individual threads, only forums.


Isn't that something that is both codeable and could be extremely useful though?

Basically it would allow moderators to say "points turned off to prevent pointless posts and spam" without infringing the users "right to post" in that topic - basically this would be a solution for those topics which aren't very good, but don't do any harm, nonetheless.
simplyw00x
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Basically it would allow moderators to say "points turned off to prevent pointless posts and spam" without infringing the users "right to post" in that topic - basically this would be a solution for those topics which aren't very good, but don't do any harm, nonetheless.

Seconded.

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That's because it's Digg. People digg stuff to make sure it shows on the website.

Things on the front page of digg have hundreds, if not thousands of votes. Ok, so maybe people digg their own website. What about the other 999?

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Although it will not contain any more info than some generic message like "Your report..........about............ has been handled by .....".

That would be a start, at least.
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