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Atrocities of man towards animals





Kelvin
This is not exactly a news but an online plight by this organisation PETA in order to stop the fur trade industry. Just watch the video here and look at the atrocities of "human" towards poor innocent animals just for the sake of money. I'm sad that such people can even be called humans and have the heart to even commit such acts. This should be made known to the world:

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=fur_farm&Player=wm

It is atrocious and not for the faint-hearted. Crying or Very sad
wumingsden
It sickens me. Literally. Twice.
I don't understand why people ****** want to wear fur. Its an animal for Christs sake, what if I skinned you alive and wore you? Its hideous.

Oh. And don't be sure you wear fake fur. MOST "fake fur", especially those sold on markets in your town centre, are in fact real. See, you don't have to be rich to wear a corpse on your back.

Thank you for having the courage to post the video.
jwellsy
Penn and Teller on PETA part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTQCQ1eI7Is

Penn and Teller on PETA part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kWPkNvWOxI

Penn and Teller on PETA part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK1wE3-aKqo


PETA has never spent a nickel on any kind of habitat improvement.
Moonspider
wumingsden wrote:
I don't understand why people ****** want to wear fur.


Although in wealthy countries it may be a status symbol, in simple cultures its probably just to stay warm in cold weather.

wumingsden wrote:
Its an animal for Christs sake, what if I skinned you alive and wore you?


That would be murder.

Respectfully,
M
wumingsden
Moonspider wrote:
wumingsden wrote:
I don't understand why people ****** want to wear fur.


Although in wealthy countries it may be a status symbol, in simple cultures its probably just to stay warm in cold weather.

wumingsden wrote:
Its an animal for Christs sake, what if I skinned you alive and wore you?


That would be murder.

Respectfully,
M


The wealthy can wear gold-leaf tops if they wish to show off their status. As for 'simple cultures', as you put it, I see a slight point as to why they would wear fur. However, at the end of the day the world is developed enough to replace fur with something else. Killing animals for their skin is not needed, especially in modern moderately-temperatured countries. And in that manner which the video showed.
Taking the life of anything Moonspider is murder.
Moonspider
wumingsden wrote:
Moonspider wrote:
wumingsden wrote:
I don't understand why people ****** want to wear fur.


Although in wealthy countries it may be a status symbol, in simple cultures its probably just to stay warm in cold weather.

wumingsden wrote:
Its an animal for Christs sake, what if I skinned you alive and wore you?


That would be murder.

Respectfully,
M


The wealthy can wear gold-leaf tops if they wish to show off their status. As for 'simple cultures', as you put it, I see a slight point as to why they would wear fur.


A “simple” point? So, ancient people were just wrong? They only had a ‘slight’ reason for killing animals? Come now.

wumingsden wrote:
However, at the end of the day the world is developed enough to replace fur with something else. Killing animals for their skin is not needed, especially in modern moderately-temperatured countries.


But animals have many more uses than just their skin. Should we just throw the skin away if we slaughter an animal for some other reason? Or are you against killing animals solely for their fur? I can understand the latter position in a developed society, although I personally don’t have a problem with fur coats. I’d rather use anything that’s natural versus some artificial material if the natural material is as effective (or more so) than the available synthetics in a given environment.

wumingsden wrote:
And in that manner which the video showed.

I didn’t watch the video. I’ve seen enough animals killed, slaughtered and skinned to know what it looks like. You said “skinned you alive,” though. Did they skin the animal alive in the video? I would have a serious problem with that. It should be illegal (and I assume that it is in the United States.) But killing an animal and then skinning it, I do not.

wumingsden wrote:
Taking the life of anything Moonspider is murder.


I disagree with that wholeheartedly. Legally of course murder can only be committed by a human being against a human being. Animals are incapable of murder (or “good” or “evil”) because they are not moral creatures.

However there are other laws against cruelty to animals. And “murder” can be defined as killing “brutally and inhumanly” (American Heritage Dictionary)

But you said, “taking the life of anything” is murder. Does that include plants? Picking fruit? Harvesting grains? Fumigating for insects? Exterminating rodents? Etc.

Respectfully,
M
jwellsy
Would you kill 1000 lab rats to cure aids?
mraek
jwellsy wrote:
Would you kill 1000 lab rats to cure aids?


I'd kill a million!

I really don't like PETA and their methods, although I broadly agree with their ideals.
They seem to think that animals are more important than people - making death threats to lab workers is so hypocritical!!!!
Also they only ever complain when kittens or puppies are being experimented on. 95% of lab animals in the UK are rats, what about them Smile
ocalhoun
Moonspider wrote:

But you said, “taking the life of anything” is murder. Does that include plants? Picking fruit? Harvesting grains? Fumigating for insects? Exterminating rodents? Etc.


There are 3 acceptable reasons to kill any living thing (including plants and microbes):
1: Self-defense (Or defense of others) (Anything from war to your immune system to taking a serial killer off the streets)
2: For food (or other vital supplies that can't be gotten without killing) (Will cease to be acceptable if purely artificial foods become available and competitive)
3: On accident (Such as stepping on a bug or killing someone in a car accident)

Everything outside those bounds, no matter what classification of life it is that dies, is murder in my book.
liljp617
jwellsy wrote:
Would you kill 1000 lab rats to cure aids?

As long as they're not stuffed in a 4x4 cage with multiple other lab rats and mistreated. No living organism should have the suffer unless it's natural (as it happens in nature quite often when food is scarce and such). There's really no excuse for mistreating animals in any way. Kill them and eat them for survival as we do, but food factories that pump out 50,000 dead chickens every day is a bit much...especially when they're constantly thrown around, mistreated, stuffed in cages they can't stand up in, etc. Stuff like that is unacceptable no matter what the excuse is. I don't care of all that food is going to people in Africa who are starving...it's no excuse.
wumingsden
jwellsy wrote:
Would you kill 1000 lab rats to cure aids?


Yes. I see this as being "for the greater good". Saying that however, I am against animal testing. I should also mention I'm a hypocrite to some extent.

Moonspider wrote:
A “simple” point? So, ancient people were just wrong? They only had a ‘slight’ reason for killing animals? Come now.


Ancient people were not wrong, if they were then I wouldn't be here today. However, as the majority the fur of animals is not needed now, therefore no reason to do it. Forgive me for not being able to word what I wanted to say. What I mean is I can see why animal furs are used, but only agree to this practice in places where it is needed, for example, in remote regions where tribes are still located and other small communities.
Moonspider wrote:
But animals have many more uses than just their skin. Should we just throw the skin away if we slaughter an animal for some other reason? Or are you against killing animals solely for their fur? I can understand the latter position in a developed society, although I personally don’t have a problem with fur coats. I’d rather use anything that’s natural versus some artificial material if the natural material is as effective (or more so) than the available synthetics in a given environment.


I think animals should only be killed for the greater good. I am a vegetarian because I can survive without the need to live off animals. I do not support the killing of animals, but can understand why animals are killed in certain situations.

Moonspider wrote:
I didn’t watch the video. I’ve seen enough animals killed, slaughtered and skinned to know what it looks like. You said “skinned you alive,” though. Did they skin the animal alive in the video? I would have a serious problem with that. It should be illegal (and I assume that it is in the United States.) But killing an animal and then skinning it, I do not.


No. They skinned the animals alive. Watch the whole video then see whether you have the same opinion, it makes no sense on commenting on something you haven't seen.

We'll agree to disagree.
Moonspider
wumingsden wrote:
No. They skinned the animals alive. Watch the whole video then see whether you have the same opinion, it makes no sense on commenting on something you haven't seen.


Why should my opinion change? Like I said, I strongly disagree with such a practice. There's no reason to be so inhumanly cruel. I don't think watching the video will sway my opinion otherwise. And as I mentioned, I've seen enough animals slaughtered and skinned in person to know what that looks like. I think my imagination can therefore suffice when it comes to skinning a live animal.

Respectfully,
M
Kelvin
What actually makes this video so cruel is that these animal were skinned alive and are still alive after the skinning process. Imagine the pain they are in. It's not about the fur. It's about how they were treated.

It's also not about PETA... it's gotta do with this video they hosted. It's really sick.
Moonspider
Kelvin wrote:
What actually makes this video so cruel is that these animal were skinned alive and are still alive after the skinning process. Imagine the pain they are in. It's not about the fur.


I agree, and I think that is where opinions on this topic differ. Some see this as a reason to get rid of the fur industry altogether. Others, like myself, object strongly to the means by which the fur is obtained, but are not against the fur trade per se.

Respectfully,
M
jwellsy
You can find cold hearted A-holes in any niche and on both sides of any issue.

Skinning live animals is not an accepted practice in any industry.

That video was probably produced specificly for PETA.
I can understand why they would have to go to China to find anyone willing to do it.
The contributions that video could raise will more than exceed the production cost.
smarter
jwellsy wrote:
That video was probably produced specificly for PETA.
I can understand why they would have to go to China to find anyone willing to do it.
The contributions that video could raise will more than exceed the production cost.


My guess also.

Those morons from PETA are capable of anything for "animal liberation" and they are relatively well funded.

They have used and will continue to use sick propaganda like this.

For me it's amazing why so many people get indoctrinated and really believe their bs.
-
c'tair
Being radical with any view is always wrong in my humble opinion. While I would be against using furs to make cloths, because most of these cloths will be bought by rich people just because theyre real furs. Of course, in many parts of the world real furs are still used because of economic and technologic issues, but come on, why would people in first world countries need to depend on natural, animal fur when they have much better, warmer, longer lasting synthetic cloths available?
Bikerman
The problem with groups like PETA are that they are fundamentally flawed in conception.
PETA's stated aims are the 'ethical treatment' of animals. What does that mean? Whose ethics? Because the phrase is open to interpretation, PETA have applied their own definition - essentially 'animal liberation' which is a nonsense.
The whole concept of animal rights is back to front. Animals don't have rights - people have responsibilities. To have rights implies having responsibilities - animals have no responsibilities. People have rights and with those rights go responsibilities (the most fundamental of which is to acknowledge the rights of others). Because PETA mixes-up notions of ethics and 'rights', they end-up making ridiculous and offensive comparisons between humans and animals - such as comparing pets to slaves and factory farming to the holocaust.

The problem is that most philosophers have copped-out of the whole issue of ethics and how it applies to animals. One philosopher who has jumped into the fray is Peter Singer, who has tried to formulate an ethical framework for animal treatment. I don't entirely agree with him but he has, at least, attempted to address this issue with some proper degree of rigorous thought.
jwellsy
I feel that there are 4 distinc classes of animals,
each with its own unique set requirments.

Wild animals
Domesticated farm animals
Research animals
Pets

Animals do not have rights, they have requirements.

We are the stewards of all the animals.
Animal liberation is poor stewardship.
skatetokil
Robert Nozick actually spends some time talking about animal rights in Anarchy State and Utopia. Check it out sometime, you won't regret it. For the record, he became a vegetarian.

I think its great that people care enough about cruelty to animals to spend time agitating against it. No reform happens without some pissed off people making good propaganda.

Nobody who has ever been close to animals can doubt that they are thinking creatures capable of human-like emotions. They feel pain and fear when you torture and kill them, and responsible humans should refrain from using the power that we have to make these creatures suffer.

I'd never tell these activists not to fight for what they believe is right. . . but for me, humans come first. We have all kinds of problems, notably our apparent willingness to murder one another for petty shit like a pair of sneakers or a bad joke, not to mention war, genocide etc etc.
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