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WGA Strike





zanzou
I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on the recent WGA strike, especially since it's looking like it could go on for quite a bit more time (the AMPTP has refused to start talks up again until the WGA drop a number of their main issues).

Personally, I'm completely willing to have all my television shows put on hold for this. I'm probably going to stop watching TV altogether until this is over (and the current scripts run out), though it won't have much of an impact since I'm in Canada.

I also agree that this is purely a vanity issue on the part of the AMPTP. They're going to lose BILLIONS over this-- not good at all for business.

I am really bummed when people lay all of the blame on the writers that studio-workers are out of work, though. As though them striking is somehow worse than the studio-execs refusing to talk.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/exclusive-attempt-fails-to-restart-wga-amptp-talks-outlook-very-grim/ (I fail at linking on frihost, erk.) You can read there about the recent further breakdown of the strike talks (aka continued refusal to talk at all), and the website provides quite a bit of good info on the strike in general.
duskraider31
By no means am I a fan of this strike, but somehow it is forced creativity. all these studios and cheesy directors are no forced to come up with something original. Too many have been safe and put out sequels and sub-par movies that are a waste of time. I will also say as a screenwriter, this is the best time to get my voice heard. If I send something in, it is bound to get looked at. I see this strike lasting only a couple months into the new year, then some deal will be struck. Looking at the current crop of movies coming out right now, i'm happy for the future of cinema, and am trying to participate in it.
zanzou
duskraider31 wrote:
By no means am I a fan of this strike, but somehow it is forced creativity. all these studios and cheesy directors are no forced to come up with something original. Too many have been safe and put out sequels and sub-par movies that are a waste of time. I will also say as a screenwriter, this is the best time to get my voice heard. If I send something in, it is bound to get looked at. I see this strike lasting only a couple months into the new year, then some deal will be struck. Looking at the current crop of movies coming out right now, i'm happy for the future of cinema, and am trying to participate in it.


Um. I think you're mistaken-- this isn't forcing creativity. They aren't getting lots of talent in from new areas. They're getting in new reality tv shows, or more seasons of old ones.

:/ I'm not sure how the strike is supposed to HELP the quality of today's movies/tv shows.
snowboardalliance
I just want my TV shows back. I'm really missing the Office, especially since they said there would be like 30 episodes. Well I'm guessing this strike just means no more tv shows this season and they will pick back up next season.
ExecuKev
it stinks - get on with your job that you were happy to take in the first place!

It's not like anybody is forcing these guys to work in sub-human conditions and feeding them a bowl of gruel once a week whilst they type frantically on a victorian age typewriter.

Union action can be a fantastic tool for wiping out genuine injustice but lets get real!


When somebody asks you if you want a job and you say yes... generally they inform you of what you will be paid for doing so etc...

If you don't agree to the terms... Don't take the job!
zanzou
ExecuKev wrote:
it stinks - get on with your job that you were happy to take in the first place!

Union action can be a fantastic tool for wiping out genuine injustice but lets get real!

If you don't agree to the terms... Don't take the job!


Yes, but subhumane conditions are far from what most unions are dealing with. And the situation when you start as a writer (with the last contract being in.... 1989, I believe?) and where it is now. A lot of the problems come from the internet/itunes, and the fact that they are either not covered at all, or barely covered for either.

ExecuKev wrote:
When somebody asks you if you want a job and you say yes... generally they inform you of what you will be paid for doing so etc...


To be a writer in the WGA, you have to agree to the WGA contract, which was set out years ago-- before DVDs even came out, for example. If you're told in the 80s that you won't get paid at a good rate for something that doesn't seem that important (ex: Boxset sales), then you can let it slide. But today, where SO MUCH MONEY is made from things that didn't even come into consideration when the last contract was being discussed? It's time to demand you get paid for what you do.

snowboardalliance wrote:
I just want my TV shows back. I'm really missing the Office, especially since they said there would be like 30 episodes. Well I'm guessing this strike just means no more tv shows this season and they will pick back up next season.


They're going to be airing a lot of the fall pilots they delayed (likely because of the strike) in the spring... so you will have things to watch. But there will also be much more reality tv.
ExecuKev
ok, so their cause isn't totally without merit but it needs resolving soon as the general public will require an resolution of some sort.

Plus, i'd like to watch something other than reality tv rubbish over the next 12 months.
zanzou
ExecuKev wrote:
ok, so their cause isn't totally without merit but it needs resolving soon as the general public will require an resolution of some sort.

Plus, i'd like to watch something other than reality tv rubbish over the next 12 months.


Since the DGA (Directors Guild) has come to a resolution with the AMPTP, it seems a lot more likely that at least the talks will resume.

You will have new things-- you can watch all the shows that got held over because of the strike, like New Amsterdam. :)
zanzou
Hurrah, they're going to start talking again!

I am very, very pleased and excited about this. :D
eday2010
Greedy pigs. Like they aren't making a good living already. Unions are nothing but greedy scumsucking organizations. If the writers are unhappy, then find another god damn job.

******.
zanzou
eday2010 wrote:
Greedy pigs. Like they aren't making a good living already. Unions are nothing but greedy scumsucking organizations. If the writers are unhappy, then find another god damn job.

******.


I honestly, HONESTLY, cannot understand that. Especially because they came out of situations like being locked into work places, and then DIEING IN A FIRE, because they were locked in. Unions are the reason people get BATHROOM BREAKS.

Most writers in the WGA aren't working on hit shows. They /aren't/ raking in the cash.

And seriously, would you want (almost?) ALL OF THE WRITERS IN HOLLYWOOD to walk out and find different jobs?

This reminds me of homer simpson: “Lisa, if you don’t like your job, you don’t strike. You just go in every day and do it really half-assed.”

And if you /aren't getting paid anything/ for something you wrote (as in the case of streaming videos) wouldn't you be upset?

And how are they up against? The people who DO make millions off the episodes.
snowboardalliance
eday2010 wrote:
Greedy pigs. Like they aren't making a good living already. Unions are nothing but greedy scumsucking organizations. If the writers are unhappy, then find another god damn job.

******.


Well the issues are pretty reasonable. They haven't had a new contract in years and since then the internet and DVD's have really taken off and writers don't get any of the profit from the internet. I'm not happy about the delays in our shows, but they aren't greedy necessarily.
zanzou
snowboardalliance wrote:
I'm not happy about the delays in our shows, but they aren't greedy necessarily.


I feel like I must not be as addicted to tv shows as others, because I'm perfectly willing to wait even now. I think it might be that I already had ways to kill mass amounts of time other than American TV, though.
eday2010
zanzou wrote:


And seriously, would you want (almost?) ALL OF THE WRITERS IN HOLLYWOOD to walk out and find different jobs?


the ones who are truly unhappy, YES. that is what you do. You don't like your job? You find a new one. You don't whine and cry and hope someone else fixes things for you. You look after yourself. If you can't look after yourself and need some suits raking in union dues and lining their pockets, then what use are you?
zanzou
eday2010 wrote:
the ones who are truly unhappy, YES. that is what you do. You don't like your job? You find a new one. You don't whine and cry and hope someone else fixes things for you. You look after yourself. If you can't look after yourself and need some suits raking in union dues and lining their pockets, then what use are you?


Well, think of it this way: for most of those writers, writing isn't their job. It's their career. And if you're in a profession that you love, and are at least fairly good at, I couldn't imagine walking away with it because I was unhappy with the contract that was being submitted to the union.

Also, I like how you assume that all unions are crooked. Yeesh.
eday2010
zanzou wrote:
Well, think of it this way: for most of those writers, writing isn't their job. It's their career. And if you're in a profession that you love, and are at least fairly good at, I couldn't imagine walking away with it because I was unhappy with the contract that was being submitted to the union.

Also, I like how you assume that all unions are crooked. Yeesh.


Well, if they love their career so much, they wouldn't be so concerned with earning a few extra bucks that they would go on strike for it. If they weren't already earning a good living, they would be doing something else already. So it comes down to being greedy. And just because you have a career, doesn't mean you can't find a new one.

And unions are crooked. If their members get more money, which the union heads always push for, you don't think the union is going to take higher dues from its members? Of course it is. Why do you think they always push for more more more more? No matter how much money its members get, it wil lnever be enough for the greedy scumsucking union.
Felixurban
I was wondering what the latest word was. Last I heard (2-2-0Cool they had all but worked out a deal with only the formula for download revenues left unsettled and they thought there COULD be a deal sometime THIS week. Any, other word?
bigdan
I haven't heard a thing, but I do support the striking writers. I believe in a fair day's pay for fair day's work. If there is money to be made off new media, then surely writers deserve their fair share of the pie. After all...they're ones who come up with ideas for shows and movies 95% of the time.
McDucque
I've heard the strike is close to over, talks are reaching a peak for the best.

There's a lot of shows I've caught up on (Damages, Dexter, Lost, Pushing Daisies) that are thwarted by the strike, and I really need to see some new episodes =P
zanzou
"Leaders of striking writers accept studios’ deal
"Membership to vote Tuesday on whether to end three-month-old walkout

"LOS ANGELES - The Writers Guild of America moved swiftly Sunday toward a resolution of its 3-month-old strike, with guild leaders deciding to recommend the contract to members and ask them to vote on a quick end to the walkout.

"By asking writers to vote separately on ending the strike and accepting the contract, the union cleared the way for the entertainment industry to return to work almost immediately.

"Membership meetings will be conducted Tuesday in New York and Los Angeles to allow writers to decide whether the strike should be called off, said Patric Verrone, president of the Writers Guild of America, West.

""This the best deal this guild has bargained for in 30 years," Verrone said.

"The tentative contract secures writers a share of the burgeoning digital-media market, he said, including compensation for Internet-delivered TV shows and movies.

""If they (producers) get paid, we get paid. This contract makes that a reality," Verrone said. But, he added, "it is not all we hoped for and it is not all we deserved."


"Still, the union's negotiating committee recommended Saturday that the contract be accepted, and the West guild's board of directors and the East guild's council agreed. They called for a membership ratification vote, which will be conducted by mail over about two weeks.

"Show runners — industry lingo for the executive producers in charge of a TV series — are expected to be back at work Monday, preparing for the return of writers as soon as Wednesday, industry members said.

"Although show runners are also guild members, they are allowed to work as long as they focus only on producer-related tasks.

"Member approval of the contract and the strike's end appeared likely. At heavily attended membership meetings Saturday in New York and Los Angeles, there was resounding support for the proposed deal that could put TV and movie production back on track, salvage the rest of the TV season and remove a boycott threat from this month's Oscars.

"The strike shut down production of TV comedies and dramas and disrupted moviemaking and Hollywood's glamorous awards season.

"Verrone thanked television viewers who "tolerated three months of reruns and reality TV."

"The guild's major bargaining concession to studios was agreeing to take unionization of animation and reality TV shows off the table, Verrone said. The guild has said it still intends to pursue those goals.

"Negotiating committee chairman John Bowman said a turning point in negotiations was last month's Golden Globes, when its star-studded ceremony was scrapped after actors refused to cross writers' picket lines.

"The Globes showed the strength of the writers' resolve and solidarity, Bowman said.

"The threat of a similar fate for this month's Academy Awards also was a powerful bargaining chip, said chief negotiator David Young.

""It was going to be a huge thing for the industry to lose the Oscars," Young said. The Feb. 24 ceremony now appears likely to proceed in its full glory and with writers on board to script host and presenter banter.

"Academy spokeswoman Leslie Unger said Saturday that Oscar organizers were hopeful but that writing on the ceremony could not begin until the strike was over."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23074826/

Unless the guild as a whole votes against it (which seems unlikely) the strike is done!
Bryan_Bezzle
Quote:
"The guild's major bargaining concession to studios was agreeing to take unionization of animation and reality TV shows off the table, Verrone said. The guild has said it still intends to pursue those goals.



Am I reading this wrong or is that saying they are doing away with reality shows?

That would be the shite. Laughing
zanzou
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:
Quote:
"The guild's major bargaining concession to studios was agreeing to take unionization of animation and reality TV shows off the table, Verrone said. The guild has said it still intends to pursue those goals.



Am I reading this wrong or is that saying they are doing away with reality shows?

That would be the shite. :lol:


I think it's more like they aren't going to be getting paid for those shows/downloads of those shows?
Crazy_Canuck
I totally support the WGA, and glad they've reached a decision.

Unfortunately, writers are the lowest possible creature on the totem pole in Hollywood, and they are extremely undervalued for the work they do. Sure, it's an avocation as much as a profession, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be paid fairly and in proportion to the salaries of others involved in creating a TV show or movie.

I'm glad they got a deal, but I'm sorry that they had to sacrifice the reality TV writers as part of the bargaining. One of the reasons the strike went on so long is that reality TV stepped in to fill the void. Whatever you think of it, it allowed SOME new programming to stay on the air ... I hope the WGA stays true to their statement, but the reality is (hehe) reality writers are even lower on the totem pole.

The only reason this thing was finally concluded is because of the upcoming Academy Awards, I think. Never mind the prospect of no writers, they would've had no one on the red carpet. The Writers' and Actors' Unions are tight, and so they should be.

My two cents. Thanks for starting this thread, zanzou. Are you a writer?
chartcentral
An agreement is now on its way. Hopefully, the WGA strike will end really soon. Smile
eday2010
It's about time those lazy asses got back to work.
pnalaba1
People have to fight for their rights.
zanzou
Crazy_Canuck wrote:
Unfortunately, writers are the lowest possible creature on the totem pole in Hollywood, and they are extremely undervalued for the work they do. Sure, it's an avocation as much as a profession, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be paid fairly and in proportion to the salaries of others involved in creating a TV show or movie.


I agree completely. I find it mind boggling that some actors are paid over half a million dollars PER EPISODE, and the writers had to strike to get paid for streamed online video. :/ I would much rather watch a lot of not-famous people do things performed by good writers than watch famous people act of terribly written shows/movies.

Crazy_Canuck wrote:

The only reason this thing was finally concluded is because of the upcoming Academy Awards, I think. Never mind the prospect of no writers, they would've had no one on the red carpet. The Writers' and Actors' Unions are tight, and so they should be.

My two cents. Thanks for starting this thread, zanzou. Are you a writer?


That's very possible-- after the Golden Globes, I think it was pretty obvious which sides the actors were going to chose when it came to the Oscars.

And it's no problem! I'm not a writer, but I was sure people on here would be interested. :)
Crazy_Canuck
zanzou wrote:
Crazy_Canuck wrote:
Unfortunately, writers are the lowest possible creature on the totem pole in Hollywood, and they are extremely undervalued for the work they do. Sure, it's an avocation as much as a profession, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be paid fairly and in proportion to the salaries of others involved in creating a TV show or movie.


I agree completely. I find it mind boggling that some actors are paid over half a million dollars PER EPISODE, and the writers had to strike to get paid for streamed online video. :/ I would much rather watch a lot of not-famous people do things performed by good writers than watch famous people act of terribly written shows/movies.


Absolutely. And all because North American culture values celebrity above artistry.

I see you are in Canada--are you east coast or west (or somewhere in the middle Wink)? Reason I ask is that Toronto was spared much of the negative ripple effects of the strike because the industry revolves around feature films here; whereas Vancouver was very hard hit as it is so closely tied to US-based episodic TV.

There was a great story in the Globe a couple of weeks ago profiling the effects of the strike on writers, production assistants, directors and others in BC. These are people who eke out a living, cobbling together a career from one contract to another, lucky to make union rates. Little if any health insurance, no job security. And why? Because most are driven to create in ways that we should reward, preserve and promote as a society.

For me, this story is less about a union's right to strike or advocate on behalf of its membership and more about the ability we have in Canada to support our artistic community and maintain its independence from the overbearing impact of US media. My views are not those of a pro-unionist, particularly. They are those of a pro-artist and cultural defender.

Well, stepping down off my soapbox now. Feel free to step up on it. I left it all shiny and warm for you. Smile
bigdan
eday2010 wrote:
It's about time those lazy asses got back to work.


That's just a tad harsh. They were fighting for a fairer deal. It takes time.

I'd like to see you write a hit show, and be exploited by greedy network execs and stupid actors/actresses.

They are the glue behind our favourite shows and all they want is a fairer deal. Like we all do in our jobs. Why should the writers be any different?
bigdan
zanzou wrote:

I agree completely. I find it mind boggling that some actors are paid over half a million dollars PER EPISODE, and the writers had to strike to get paid for streamed online video. :/ I would much rather watch a lot of not-famous people do things performed by good writers than watch famous people act of terribly written shows/movies.


I'm with you in that regard...some actors and actresses are totally crap, and would be lost without a writer.
eday2010
bigdan wrote:
eday2010 wrote:
It's about time those lazy asses got back to work.


That's just a tad harsh. They were fighting for a fairer deal. It takes time.

I'd like to see you write a hit show, and be exploited by greedy network execs and stupid actors/actresses.

They are the glue behind our favourite shows and all they want is a fairer deal. Like we all do in our jobs. Why should the writers be any different?


Please, man. You make it sound like they were barely scraping by, which is a load of bull. Writers make a good living; that's part of the reason they do it. If they got paid crap, they wouldn't be writing.

Instead of automatically jumping to a strike, they could have done something less drastic to start. Work to rule, or work less, or something. But of course, the union is greedy, so they want their members to get as much money as possible so that they in turn can take more dues from them. that is the bottom line to it.

And I am still a firm believer that if you are truly unhappy with your job or the rate of pay, then look after yourself and find a new job. Those who TRULY love to write are the ones who aren't bothered much making only a modest income because they love their work. the rest also like to write, but are in it more for the money than anything.

Unions = greedy pigs.
bigdan
eday2010 wrote:


Please, man. You make it sound like they were barely scraping by, which is a load of bull. Writers make a good living; that's part of the reason they do it. If they got paid crap, they wouldn't be writing.

Instead of automatically jumping to a strike, they could have done something less drastic to start. Work to rule, or work less, or something. But of course, the union is greedy, so they want their members to get as much money as possible so that they in turn can take more dues from them. that is the bottom line to it.

And I am still a firm believer that if you are truly unhappy with your job or the rate of pay, then look after yourself and find a new job. Those who TRULY love to write are the ones who aren't bothered much making only a modest income because they love their work. the rest also like to write, but are in it more for the money than anything.

Unions = greedy pigs.


Not every writer makes millions of dollars. You make it sound like they're wiping their arses with one dollar bills. A lot of shows get axed within the first few episodes - what are those writers going to do then?

All they want is their fair share of new media revenues for their hard work. That's all it is. The previous deal was written in the 1980s, and they had no idea the Internet or DVDs were coming into being. Now I think that's a fair point.

And as for your last point - you find a writer that's in it only for the money, pay for his/her return ticket to Australia and introduce him/her to me, and I'll believe you. If they were only there for the money - they'd be churning out the scripts and ideas like I churn out shit in the toilet.

If you think unions = greedy pigs, then may I introduce you to the idea of TV producers = even greedier pigs?
eday2010
bigdan wrote:


If you think unions = greedy pigs, then may I introduce you to the idea of TV producers = even greedier pigs?


Of course they are. Everyone is greedy; you're greedy, Im greedy. But at least they aren't a union.
bigdan
eday2010 wrote:

Of course they are. Everyone is greedy; you're greedy, Im greedy. But at least they aren't a union.


What's the go with you and unions? Every post in this thread is you bashing unions or their members! To use a sporting analogy, you've crash tackled the man and let the ball go out of bounds.

Not every union is greedy...there are some great unions who really do stand up for their members in the ether.

They were fighting for a fair day's pay for their work. They wanted their fair share from new media for their hard work. Now that's fine with me, and I'm happy that they've come to an agreement. As I've said, the old deal was written in the Eighties, and needed to be updated.

They're going back to work as early as today, you happy now?
chartcentral
It's over but it looks like my favorite 24 will not be having a brand new season anytime soon. Sad
http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/detail/index.jsp?uuid=b163d6b8-3327-49da-b8d8-16696cec775d
eday2010
Yes, I am happy they are finally going back to work and doign their job. My main gripe is with unions who represent public employees: nurses, postal workers, government departments, city staff, public transit employees etc. No public employee whould be unionized, nor should any of them have the right to strike and disrupt the lives of the people who pay their wages.

So I am not a fan of unions overall, but especially those unions. The WGA may have had a case, but that doesn't mean I will start embracing their union. I don't even know why they NEED a union. The studios would pay them well enough with or without a union if the studios wanted quality stuff to produce.

Down with unions.
zanzou
eday2010 wrote:
Yes, I am happy they are finally going back to work and doign their job. My main gripe is with unions who represent public employees: nurses, postal workers, government departments, city staff, public transit employees etc. No public employee whould be unionized, nor should any of them have the right to strike and disrupt the lives of the people who pay their wages.

So I am not a fan of unions overall, but especially those unions. The WGA may have had a case, but that doesn't mean I will start embracing their union. I don't even know why they NEED a union. The studios would pay them well enough with or without a union if the studios wanted quality stuff to produce.

Down with unions.


Not even touching the first part of that, because it seems so unbelievably wrong to me, and we've established that neither of us are going to change our opinions.

Going beyond "the writers need a union so they can't get ****** over" reasoning, the big companies WANT them to have unions because then they only have to write up a single contract for all members of the WGA. It would take a lot longer, and there would probably be way more lawsuites, if they had to write up individual contracts for every single writer they wanted to use.
bigdan
zanzou wrote:

Not even touching the first part of that, because it seems so unbelievably wrong to me, and we've established that neither of us are going to change our opinions.


Agreed. I'm leaving his one track argument to derail. Laughing

The facts are - the Guild and the producers came to an agreement and are getting back to work. Case closed.
eday2010
When the workers are getting paid with TAXPAYER money, there should be no union involved. Unions are not in the best interest of the taxpayer who pay for the civil servants and others I listed. The goal is to pay less taxes, not more taxes to support cushy salaries and cushy jobs.
zanzou
eday2010 wrote:
When the workers are getting paid with TAXPAYER money, there should be no union involved. Unions are not in the best interest of the taxpayer who pay for the civil servants and others I listed. The goal is to pay less taxes, not more taxes to support cushy salaries and cushy jobs.


Why is the goal to lower taxes? What makes you think that just because you're working for the government, it means your boss is less likely to take advantage of you?

Teachers work for the government: so do custodians. Both were forced to strike during the time I was high school, and I completely supported both of them. I supported both of them each time, and not because it got me out of school.
cosmicx
Finally, WGA strike is coming to the ending now...
Hopefully, most of the writers will get back to work...
And we can continue to watch our favorite drama.
Heroes Season 3...
haha Razz
snowboardalliance
I'm glad it's over because the Office is coming back now. Oh man I've been waiting for more office episodes.
eday2010
zanzou wrote:
eday2010 wrote:
When the workers are getting paid with TAXPAYER money, there should be no union involved. Unions are not in the best interest of the taxpayer who pay for the civil servants and others I listed. The goal is to pay less taxes, not more taxes to support cushy salaries and cushy jobs.


Why is the goal to lower taxes? What makes you think that just because you're working for the government, it means your boss is less likely to take advantage of you?

Teachers work for the government: so do custodians. Both were forced to strike during the time I was high school, and I completely supported both of them. I supported both of them each time, and not because it got me out of school.


Why isn't the goal to lower taxes? Do you love paying taxes? Having money taken from you without you having a say? Less taxes means people have more money in their own pockets, which means they will be better prepared to look after themselves instead of having government make all the decisions for them. With the amount of money governments waste on nonsense and crap, taxes could be a lot lower. Beauracracies don't need to be as huge as they are. As far as bosses taking advantage of you, there are labour laws in place to protect you against such things, whether you work for government or not.

Teachers DO work for the government. And they should also be considered an essential service, since it IS essential that children learn what they need to in school to become useful members of society instead of welfare leeches. You probably did support the teachers strike simply because it got you out of school. You know, teachers have it sooooo rough! $60,000 a year for working 10 months a year with roughly 2 months off in the summer, a week off in March, a week or two off at Christmas, sick days, and so on. Yeah, that certainly isn't good enough Rolling Eyes
zanzou
[quote="eday2010"]
zanzou wrote:
Why isn't the goal to lower taxes? Do you love paying taxes? Having money taken from you without you having a say? Less taxes means people have more money in their own pockets, which means they will be better prepared to look after themselves instead of having government make all the decisions for them. With the amount of money governments waste on nonsense and crap, taxes could be a lot lower. Beauracracies don't need to be as huge as they are. As far as bosses taking advantage of you, there are labour laws in place to protect you against such things, whether you work for government or not.

Teachers DO work for the government. And they should also be considered an essential service, since it IS essential that children learn what they need to in school to become useful members of society instead of welfare leeches. You probably did support the teachers strike simply because it got you out of school. You know, teachers have it sooooo rough! $60,000 a year for working 10 months a year with roughly 2 months off in the summer, a week off in March, a week or two off at Christmas, sick days, and so on. Yeah, that certainly isn't good enough :roll:


I'm going to completely ignore that whoooole first part. Because our arguments can be summed up as "I am a liberal and think that supporting services to help people is an important thing, and am willing to pay taxes for it" and you are obviously not. But the fact the fact is this: when I see taxes being lowered, services decrease. That's how you lower taxes, after all. And a lot of those services effect my family directly-- not because we're poor, but because my brother has Down's Syndrome, and so we get to see all the programs that could support him being cut off.

Yes. Yes teachers do work for the government. Which is why I said they did. o_O Wtf.

Here's the thing: enjoying the fact that one gets time off is not a reason to support a teachers strike. It's a reason to hope the strike goes on longer-- which is not supporting them. And here's a newsflash-- teachers don't usually strike over how much they're getting paid. They usually strike over budget issues in the school. Schools get closed when there are budget cuts, and so students have to over crowd the schools that are left. That's hard on teachers. Lower budgets mean the school can't pay for supplies teachers need (chalk, tissues, construction paper, whatever), and they often have to pay it out of their own pocket.

And you can't treat teaching students (aged 4 or 5 - ~17) the same as any other job. Even if all the worked was the time they were AT SCHOOL (minimum where I was at school was around 8-4), they're not just pushing papers, they're dealing with bitchy as hell students ALL DAY. Very stressful.

But they don't just work when they're at school. They have to grade papers when they're at home. They have to make lesson plans. They have to write up tests, and buy all the supplies the school can't afford but that the teacher might think the class needs. They have to come up with ways to get children to PAY ATTENTION in class, by making things fun.

And so while they get nights, evenings, weekends, and long holiday breaks at Christmas/March/Summer, a whole SHIT LOAD of that time is still spent working. If they were just making tests, that still takes hours out of every single night-- which is why it takes so long for tests to be given back to students.

Basically, don't call what teachers do easy. If they're striking for money, that's their right. But they're usually striking because of budget cuts giving them 40+ children to teach, which is basically impossible.
eday2010
zanzou wrote:

Basically, don't call what teachers do easy. If they're striking for money, that's their right. But they're usually striking because of budget cuts giving them 40+ children to teach, which is basically impossible.


Maybe they do that where you come from, but here they strike when their contract is up and they are demanding more and more money, don't get it, and then hold students and parents hsotage so they can get their way. Screw them.

As for lowering taxes, I told you how it could be done. Shrink the beauracracy. Too many higher ups earning too much money when fewer of them would accomplish the same tasks, and then the front line workers who actually provide services would still be there. I agree that the government should provide some services, such as those for disabled and so forth, but the government provides way too many services for nothing. Many of them don't need to be provided since people can do a lot of it for themselves, which is what should be encouraged. Not to mention all the charities and church organizations that provide services for those in need already. People can and will look after each other, even if the government has you believing only they can look after you.

There is a difference between paying taxes and paying too much tax. I said the goal should be to lower taxes, not to abolish them. But it would be nice if some level of government didn't have their damn hands in our pocket everytime we earned or received money or spent money.
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