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Remove Posting Requirements





scotty
Now that got your attention, it's not quite that simple, please read my idea!

The ads were removed from this site for members a long time ago and there was a thread about it which basically established the income received is no longer required to run this host. Guest's take care of that enough. (Feel free to correct me on this one if I'm wrong.)

I'm always logged in, I never see ads on Frihost, therefore I contribute nothing towards running this host. So that makes me ask, why do I need to post at all?

I know this contradicts the community aspect of Frihost but, in a pure economic sense the model Frihost currently has would be viable without any posting requirement to maintain an account. Since the ad clicks are not at all dependent on hosted members' posting, why do hosted members' have to post, and maintain points?

Now, I see absolutely no problems with this idea on the basis that a few measures are taken. Firstly, most users join and then never get hosting as you can tell by the massive amount of members who have never even posted. To be even more through 25,182 members don't even have the 5 posts required to get a hosting account to start with (thats 67.5% of the 37,298 users we have at this point in time). So a lot of the users aren't hosted members anyway, most people make some posts, click some ads etc. and don't cost Frihost anything and Frihost effectively makes a profit off them.

Obviously if there was no posting requirement the forum would stagnate and traffic of users who aren't logged in with decrease a small amount. However, I would suggest this forum would remain active and fresh even without forced posting, meaning the income derived from posting would continue. I'd also say the quality of posts would also greatly increase because to be quite frank, most posts are rubbish. I hate the spammy posts on this forums that don't add anything to a thread but still take up screen space.

Now the biggest problem I can find in my ingenious plan is free riders. People who join, will never post and thus never click the ads. So while I'd like to see all posting requirements removed, certain externalities prevent this from happening easily.

You need to weed out people who won't stay with the host for a long time, thus a small posting requirement is needed, but only initially. Perhaps you might find that method alone does not deter people who will not contribute so a probationary period could work well. For example keep the existing requirement to gain hosting and then a six month probationary period where they must maintain a positive amount of points. Now these are just a formula for the system not actual numbers that should be used.

Now if you made it to here well done here is my suggestion on how to implement this effectively:
  1. To reward established members who have contributed in the past, reduce posting requirement.
  2. Keep existing posting requirements for new hosting requests.
  3. Implement a probationary period where users must contribute actively for 3 months before a concession on posting requirements is granted.
  4. Optionally, after 6 months (or some other reasonable period), remove all posting requirements or significantly reduce required activity.
Another way of doing this that might give tell tale traffic statistics which may help us predict future patterns of income is to to a trial period of one month where nobody has to post.
truespeed
Quote:
I'm always logged in, I never see ads on Frihost, therefore I contribute nothing towards running this host. So that makes me ask, why do I need to post at all?


Every time you (and everyone else) starts a new topic,you create a topic that gets indexed by search engines,which in turn brings guests to the forum with a search related to that topic,and potential clicks,so in that way we all contribute.

Obviously the more people post, the more pages get indexed, ,the more guest traffic frihost gets and the more clicks frihost get.

(plus don't forget the google search box at the top,anytime any logged in user uses it and clicks on a sponsored ad they contribute clicks also)

Quote:
# To reward established members who have contributed in the past, reduce posting requirement.


That may work,although i don't know how you would implement it or on what basis you decide it,wether it be a time thing (member for 3 months.6 months,1 year) or an amount of posts thing.
Vrythramax
A novel idea to be sure...but I seriously doubt it will ever happen. Considering this is a FREE host, why shouldn't posting be mandatory? Or are you one of those people who thinks everything should be free and you don't have to work for things?

Free hosting at Frihost is a privledge, and like any other privledge in life you have to do something in order to keep it...in this case posting for hosting.
bigdan
I agree with Max. Frihost is the best free web hosting service I've used in donkey's years. I am happy to keep posting here to maintain my account.
rvec
also the hosting requirements make this such a big community. And that's one of the best parts about frihost, the community.
tidruG
Actually, you have forgotten one of the main things...

Unless the registered members (who do not see the ads) make new threads and/or posts to which new members or unregistered members (who do see ads) can reply, no one will have any reason to visit Frihost and view/click on the ads.

The forums will dry up, because sometimes, from seemingly uninteresting replies (which are made only for the sake of points), some very interesting and solid replies can be obtained which spark off great discussion.

I'm sorry, I don't see this happening at all.
thadinator
A novel idea. but consider this: the mandatory postings maek this forums tay alive. I know you're thinking, why do we need this forum? The answer is not that we need one, but that we should have it. I have seen mayn forums that get plenty of traffic for awhile, but then people just stop showing. THere needs to be some motivation. All the people who enjoy these forums would be screwed if they were the only ones posting. Because when traffic decreases, sometimes sites get shut down. Gotmoola.com is a great example. As a supplement to the book " make more than your parents" it was a gerat place for teens to discuss money stuff. but due to lack of updates, people stopped showing up. there was no mitivation. that's why we have this restriction. to motiavate people. ans like the mod said, it keeps the ranking up. but i actually never found this through a search engine. Keep posting people!
mathiaus
Quote:
2. Keep existing posting requirements for new hosting requests.

So long as that stays I can't see any major problems or abuse. Without it though - which I assumed you meant before reading fully - serious problems would occur.

I don't really have an opinion on making older members post or not. I would hate to loose out on everyone's contribution to the forum though.
Afaceinthematrix
But if posting wasn't required, the forum wouldn't be as active and there wouldn't be as much revenue from guests. Some people, like me, would still post, though, because I love talking in forums. I love learning about people around the world.
richard270384
I think this is a terrible idea.

I find the frihost forums to be perfect the way they are.

The posting requiements are not ridiculous, it's easy to earn points, but not too easy, and there are always plenty of new threads and posts.

I would post here even if I didnt have to but I dont think many other people would - and that would mean I would have nobody to reply to or to reply to me.
fimperato
I understand where you are getting your ideas from. But this is still technically a business. Even though they are giving you (us) free access to a web server doesn't mean its not. Basically they are making a lot of money of ads and hits. That in turn is providing us with free access. If honerary memebers get free no post limits, that will draw down the hits that the site gets. Basically I see why they have us post stuff. Plus its not that big of a deal to post and talk about a topic for 5-10 mins of your life a week.
tidruG
Quote:
Basically they are making a lot of money of ads and hits.
Actually, not a lot of money. Just enough to keep things running, that's all.
gr8inferno
Not all Ads are bad, Malicious ads I don't like , well no one does. Frihos forum is one of the best forum I've ever joined. It's alive, lots of info adn it's clean. Where I work Frihost.com is welcome consider Myspace, facebook, bebo are not due to their vurnebillty to get infected through ads. so I would say I'm gonna be in it for a long haul. bottom line is fresh ideas are fine and dandy as long as it doesn't violate my rights.
scotty
As we can see from some of the posts even in this thread, the prospect of collecting some points results in some replies that are totally unrelated to the original post (or any subsequent posts). I have no problem with the ads and I didn't start this thread to question them.

The community aspect of Frihost is a vital part of this host and to let the forums stagnate and die would basically ruin what has been created. I suggested the the posting requirements be modified to help increase the quality of posts.

It is no secret that a lot of posts are useless and are just spam that we all skip over and read the next one. Quality is better than it used to be, but could still do with some improvement.

By reducing posting requirements for established members off a probationary period (what I said in the original post in case some didn't read any more than the title) I don't see any reason why the quality of posts would decrease. The quantity of posts from the members I admit would probably decrease. But, the posts that don't make it online were just spam anyway.

I come on the forums and half the time I go "what crap topics" and don't post in them. But then I find I'm low on points and need a top up so I *have* to go and post in a topic I don't want to post in. Everybody is like this, don't try and say there's a single person here whose posts are 100% on topic, constructive and they wanted to say something. Other times I'll find a topic which I want to post in continuously and reply to every post, these are good posts and these would not be lost from reducing the requirement to post.

So back on what I originally said, reduce the posting requirements for established members. I'm sick of reading crap that is just there for the points. I agree with all of you, removing the posting requirements completely would be a stupid thing to do just like I said in the OP. This forum is well established and would not stagnate as a result of reducing the amount of posting required from people who have been here a long time.
rvec
The people who have been here for a long time and have over 500 posts mostly are the people we want to keep posting, these are the people who make most of the quality posts. I don't mean all new members are spammers but over 50% of all users with < 20 posts are. Most of the time they are denied hosting and leave, those who try again sometimes improve and get their hosting. Then after a while they get more posts, get more familiar with frihost and become good posters.

And you want to remove or lower the posting criteria for those senior members? To get the quality up? I don't think that's such a good idea.
tidruG
Quote:
The quantity of posts from the members I admit would probably decrease. But, the posts that don't make it online were just spam anyway.
No, I'd have to disagree with the second part. Sure, some members do come here only because of the requirements, and a lot of them post bullshit, but some of them do a good job. As an Admin, I've seen it qutie a bit.

Also, while one person may view a thread as being a wasteful and inconstructive thread, others may find it enjoyable and fun to post in and discuss. I'm pretty sure that if we remove posting requirements even for established members, the forum WILL stagnate by quite a bit.
scotty
I was suggesting reduce the posting requirement, not remove them for exactly the reasons you mention. I don't believe the forums would be worse off for it, but the only way we can be sure is to try; so we are all just guessing. I think the quality of the forums would be better.

Yes, there needs to be posting requirements for new members and even people who have been here for x amount of months. I just believe that once an account has been maintained for a long period of time, it is quite likely that given a lower posting requirement, a large amount of crappy posts would be eliminated.
tidruG
How do we reduce posting requirements? By changing the number of points that are deducted everyday?
rvec
tidruG wrote:
How do we reduce posting requirements? By changing the number of points that are deducted everyday?

Or give more points per post.
tidruG
Both solutions will require a change in coding... or extra coding. Knowing Bondie, how likely do you think that is to happen?
ocalhoun
rvec wrote:


And you want to remove or lower the posting criteria for those senior members? To get the quality up? I don't think that's such a good idea.


Agreed. If someone has 500+ posts, they probably aren't having any trouble at all meeting posting requirements, and aren't posting just for points anyway. If one of them is posting just for points - and therefore having low quality posts - reducing the posting requirements for them will just cause them to make fewer total posts, all of them still of low quality.
cybernytrix
I second that! Initially the posting requirement was just a quirk of the web site. It now seems to be some sort of a policing tool! Please remove this requirement.
Bockman
@cybernytrix

Did you even bother to read the topic? Did you at least read the first post entirely?

Btw, I'll "third" that when you explain to me who/what you are "seconding"...

Be Well Cool
Bannik
I suggest that you can only post a new thread by using frihS and that the person who created the thread should be the one to regulate them.
if the thread dies (i.e no posts for 2 weeks) then the thread starter should delete it or loose more points
tidruG
Bannik, that doesn't make sense at all.

If that's the case, no new user(s) will be able to make new threads. And threads die after some time... no thread can be active forever. Does that mean every thread starter should eventually lose a lot of points?
ocalhoun
Bannik wrote:
I suggest that you can only post a new thread by using frihS and that the person who created the thread should be the one to regulate them.
if the thread dies (i.e no posts for 2 weeks) then the thread starter should delete it or loose more points


That specific idea is a little bit retarded, but the idea of having the topic starter be 'in charge' of the topic might be good. Instead of penalizing for abandoning it, reward the topic starter for adding in replies, and keeping track of the topic. Give the topic starter the ability to do some limited moderation within the topic, and have there be (small) rewards for using these limited moderation powers.

This would encourage people to not make 'post and forget' worthless topics, and it would reduce the moderator load a little. I think people can be trusted with limited moderator powers within a topic they started themselves. If they abuse their powers, the topic will not turn out well, and why would they start the topic if they didn't want a good response?

This might have to be disabled in places like the marketplace or contests forums, but users could still report abusive topic starters.
rvec
that might be a good idea if we could have revisions. So when a user does some moderation he shouldn't have done we can warn him and revert the changes. Then after a couple of those warnings (2 maybe 3) he'll lose the right to this moderation option.

Also new users shouldn't be able to use this option, only with 50+ posts you can be trusted enough to care for the community.
mcfearless
If I could suggest something about the post-to-host system it would be to add different options to how much posts are required. Like there could be the original 1 point a day, and then for those whose site doesn't see a lot of action and doesn't use a lot of bandwidth, a bandwidth cost points system. Another option I would like to see is allowing users to (temporarily) put frihost's adds on their page to earn points for clicks. Finally another option is to have different levels of hosting. Like a light option which cost 0.5 points a day and only has like 50 Megs of storage, 1 gig of bandwidth and only simple functions like html and image hosting. Then the regular one point per day option then a "Super" hosting plan which costs, lets say, 3 points per day and offers much more. Just my two cents if anyone is interested.

EDIT:Sorry if some of these suggestions are listed in the not to be suggested list.
tidruG
@ocalhoun, that's not a bad idea. It could work quite well, but again, we're handicapped by the fact that it's going to take a lot of time to code, and Bondie doesn't really have that much time.
sonam
Actualy I am OK with this sistem of points but here is my idea.
Quote:
How do we reduce posting requirements? By changing the number of points that are deducted everyday?

Maybe you can reduce posting requirements if you don't every day reduce points on 45 (of course only for members with 500 post and more).

Sonam
polly-gone
I think this idea is excellent. I know I would still contribute greatly. The PHP and MySQL forum is my savior. The general forum is always interesting. The religion and philosophy forum always has a heated debate going on. If we got a political forum (Pretty please!??!?) that would be a huge hit.

My points are usually very high (30 - 45+). But this points system is killing me. Sometimes I get so busy with school and my web design that my points get low and drop below -5. (That rarely happens). When it does happen though, I may be very, very busy, but if I wish to keep my hosting I have to take out a half hour of time to come on the message boards and try to get my points above 5 or 6 so that I am good for awhile if I am still busy. It would be nice that if, since I have been a member so long, that I can trust that my hosting will stay if for some reason I can get on for an extended period of time.

Last summer I almost lost my hosting due to inactivity. I had been really busy and could post just enough to keep me alive and then I had an extended period of time where I couldn't post.

My points were: 2

Friday - Stupid Family Cookout (-1)
Sat - Next Sun - Vacation (-9)
Mon - Wed - Internet was Borked (-3)

Ending points were: -11

Luckily no one caught it, but this system is dangerous!

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
rvec
your account won't be deleted if you have -20 points and are still active enough. There ven are users with -100 who still have hosting.
polly-gone
Phew! I am always so worried when I have to be away for extended times and I haven't posted in awhile. But you guys know I am a contributor!

<---- Notice the Post Count EDIT: My very odd post count... 333
<---- Notice the Joined Date

Edit: But then what is the point of the posting count anyways? If the gelatinous mass known as the mean team (wow... that was the first adjective that popped into my head) doesn't boot hosters that have -100, why do we have the point system!?
rvec
polly-gone wrote:
why do we have the point system!?

that way you can see who's active. And users with 15 posts and -30 points will get suspended. If you have over 50 points I think you can get to -100 and with 200+ posts you might be able to get past that.

Just don't try it out because they sometimes do a big clean-up and suspend all accounts with <50 points or something like that.
polly-gone
hmm..... Curious..... good point

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
webpagist81884
I think the amount of frequent post required should be reduced, thats for sure.
mathiaus
webpagist81884 wrote:
I think the amount of frequent post required should be reduced, thats for sure.

Why though? It really shouldn't take too much of your time and for what your getting, even if it did, it would be well worth it.
polly-gone
See, but the whole point of the points system is to make sure the hosting is paid for. There are some people who are real busy and can hardly post. Then there are people like to who rarely drop below -5, just because we like this forum. I don't think that we should be required a certain frequency of posting. Especially since I could come on here with -50 points, post enough to get me to 45+, then I wouldn't have to come on this site for another 95.

Wow, I just made to completely opposite arguments. I just think the system should be made better.

-Nick Smile Wink Smile
rvec
so people who have a site or are working on a site don't have the time to make 2 posts a week?

Then why would you even need hosting? To set up a site and don't look at it for a couple of months?

edit: this was @webpagist81884 Razz
polly-gone
See, my point is that we should be rewarded or something. Like I always have a high point value and I post often, so maybe a should get 2 extra mb on my hosting. or 10.25 in my bandwidth!

My posting should pay for SOMETHING!

-Nick Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
wumingsden
polly-gone wrote:
See, my point is that we should be rewarded or something. Like I always have a high point value and I post often, so maybe a should get 2 extra mb on my hosting. or 10.25 in my bandwidth!

My posting should pay for SOMETHING!

-Nick Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy



If you didn't post (eventually) your account would be deleted. So your posting is paying for something; for the

Quote:
# 250 Mb of space for your entire collection of websites.
# 10 GB of traffic each and every month.
# 1 short free subdomain to be reachable in the whole world (you.frih.net).
# Php and Perl scripting languages to fulfill all your programming needs.
# The DirectAdmin control panel to manage your web hosting account.
# No forced advertisements. Your own ads like google adsense are allowed.
# Unlimited MySQL databases for all your data.
# Unlimited subdomains and ftp accounts of all your domains.
# Unlimited email accounts for your correspondence.
# Unlimited parked and addon domains for your whole portfolio of websites.
polly-gone
I think dedicated people should get an advantage. I mean, I am required to post 9 posts here every 45 days or so, but I post way more than that!

-Nick Cool Cool Cool
SonLight
I don't think it's a good idea to reduce the overall posting requirement for long-time members, but there are ways for the site to reward them, such as guaranteeing their site will be preserved during a longer vacation from posting. I would suggest that promotion to a privileged status require a specified number of posts and/or points, but the promotion should not be automatic. If a moderator checked a few posts for quality, then fewer would game the system with long but questionable posts.

Long-time members could be allowed to keep more points, perhaps 60 or 80, which would improve the perception of reliability of the hosting. Also, it would make sense to increase the maximum number of points for a long post. To partially offset that, I would be quite happy if I got no points unless the post qualified for at least three points. I might even do a two or three line humorous comment on purpose occasionally in that case, since I wouldn't get credit anyway and would be less likely to be accused of spamming.

One interesting possibility would be to keep track of number of posts of various lengths. That would allow analysis of a poster's history, and based on experience plus a little manual quality checking, perhaps there might someday be rules made or privileges given based on number of posts made of a given length.

The Frihost point system rocks. Any changes must preserve the "stick" that quality posting is always required. A few "carrots" that would make life more flexible for the dedicated poster could help though.
rvec
it's not easy to code that difference between usergroups. And we are already doing something like that. Users with a lot of posts and good quality can go to -200 or even further before their hosting is deleted. And users with only 10 posts will get their hosting deleted at -20 or -50. So we're actually giving good members about 150 extra days of hosting.
silverdown
I see many post asking to get rid of the posting requirements. I don't see anything wrong with it. I post like once a week ( it's been a little more lately, don't know why) with about 10 post that does me good till next week. Sometimes I forget but when I do remember I come and post. These topics always end up the same way being told NO they requirements stay. Hosting is like a min of $40 a month for a good reliable host. Frihost is FREE and reliable and all you have to do is post once a week or enough to keep you points from the negative value. I never went below 25 points, When I found Frihost I felt like I won the lottery. Maybe that is just me, but I like the posting system, and requirements the way they are. you getting at least $40+ value of service at least you can do is post in the forums in return.
Fatality
I agree with silverdown. I am so glad I stumbled upon Frihost when looking for cheap/free web hosting with MySQL and PHP support. I haven't found anything even close to Frihost for free. I personally believe the posting requirements are fine. I'm very new to the site and haven't gotten to know all the workings yet, but maybe they could offer an option to remove posting requirements for a small monthly fee? Just an Idea.

~Fatality
swinburn
seriously man whats the need of having a posting limit
i get it from the point of view that the site remains active
but still you should trust us
rvec
trust you? It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of getting more posts and more activity on the forums. That way we'll get higher on google and more visitors from google. And because members don't see the ads any more the visitors from google(and other search engines) are the ones that pay for the webhosting.
tidruG
swinburn wrote:
seriously man whats the need of having a posting limit
i get it from the point of view that the site remains active
but still you should trust us
Woah there...
You're just a new member, you haven't even made 20 posts yet.
Kinda begs the question... why should we trust you?
Not that I'm targetting you specifically, but why should we trust any new member at all?
leosthenerd
Maybe we noobs don't have the time or patience to post just to keep the account? this is the only free host on the net like this that I've seen...if we come to get hosted and we have to post here when will we ever have time to post on our own forums? I think getting rid of the post requirement is a great idea! then it would be free with no strings attached...


(With all do respect to admins and frihost) Sad Wink

(yes I know I'm a noob) Wink
rvec
you have a ste to maintain but don't have the time to post on frihost? That'd be odd, making a post like this takes about a min or 2, and you only have to make 3 a week. If you use an hour a week for your site you'll still have about 50 min left, and that's not a lot of time to spend on a hobby.

edit you need less than 3 of these posts a week Wink
[FuN]goku
heh, i don't think it should be reduced. Don't be so lazy Razz it doesn't take that much effort.
I can honestly say I've slacked on posting quite a few times, but i always manage to get posting again.

Usually I'm busy with school or something so i get caught up with that and forget to post on here, or since it's the summer now.. well a few weeks ago i had summer school + work, so i only had about 2 hours to myself, which I'd spend talking to my GF, but since summer school has been over, i've had no problems with personal time.

Plus my training period of work is over so i'm only working 3-4 days a week hehe.

I think maybe it's just the newer people coming in that complain about posting, even when i first found frihost i was like "zomg i have to keep posting?", but you get used to it, and frihost is a great community so you get to enjoy posting .. well maybe, I guess it depends on the person. Meh anyways enough ranting for now xD
leosthenerd
AHHH ok you got me Very Happy that works Wink thx lol
tidruG
leosthenerd wrote:
Maybe we noobs don't have the time or patience to post just to keep the account? this is the only free host on the net like this that I've seen...if we come to get hosted and we have to post here when will we ever have time to post on our own forums? I think getting rid of the post requirement is a great idea! then it would be free with no strings attached...


(With all do respect to admins and frihost) Sad Wink

(yes I know I'm a noob) Wink
Hmm... that's an excellent idea from a user point of view. Let's look at it from Frihost point of view.

How many ads do we have on our members' websites?
ANS: None.

How many ads do we have on our forums for registered members?
ANS: None.

If no one posts, how many Frihost pages get indexed by Google?
ANS: None.

If none of our pages get indexed, how much money do we earn through ads that guests (non-registered members) might click on?
ANS: None.

What happens if we don't generate enough money to run the servers?
ANS: No more Frihost.

Wink
mk12327
This topic started off quite neutral and with a "discussion" tone but as I read on, it seems like the tone started becoming aggressive between the admins and new members. Personally, I do have to agree that the posting requirement is quite "pressing" at times. That is especially true where there were a few times I do not even have the time to meddle with my own website!

But I do have to agree with most of the admin's arguement about keeping the posting requirements. It sounds reasonable to me, given the fact that I am very satisfied with Frihost's free hosting. In fact, before I joined Frihost, I am not a very active member in (other) forums. But because of the posting requirement, I slowly became to enjoy engaging discussions in forums, Frihost forums in particular. If you guys noticed, there are many people who post in other forums out of free will, WITHOUT any free hosting or benefits at all. And at the same time, there are people in those forums which spam, without the forum's requirement to post.

To me, it is clear that we (Frihost community and mods) need to take another look at the current system and policies in Frihost forums so as to encourage "free will" posting and thus more quality post. However, we (members) also have to be clear that the posting requirement is although tough during busy periods, it is still considered reasonable.
sonam
Quote:
To me, it is clear that we (Frihost community and mods) need to take another look at the current system and policies in Frihost forums so as to encourage "free will" posting and thus more quality post.


From my perspective "Free will" posting are not good idea. I am member of few different forums but I can visit them when I would like, and I have around 100 posts there. Of course there is few super members with 1000+ post but this is not enought for runing free hosting and, by the way, they have ads on any page.

My sugestion for new members is: "Don't spam". Why? Because, with spamig you are geting just 1 points or little bit more. If you are write good, interesting post then you will get more points. If you are get five points then you are free next five days. Calculation is qute simple, spamers need aproximately 25-30 posts per month, good posters only 6-10. With 10 post per month is not heavy to keep your free hosting account.

Sonam
leosthenerd
I see your point, it was just an opinion, I wasn't trying to put frihost down or make anybody mad...
Sad Wink
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