An offshoot from a topic in general chat:
You only have 60 seconds left to live, and for the moment, let us presume you don't believe in any religion that believes in anything like an afterlife. (or reincarnation, for that matter)
Do you then convert to a faith that believes in heaven, just on the off-chance that it might possibly be true? The way I see it, you risk very little for a very large (however unlikely) possible gain.
What would be the point of retaining staunch athiesim, agnsoticism, or what have you when you'll be dead and gone in minutes. (After which, if you are right not to believe in heaven, it won't matter because you aren't aware of it, and if you were wrong to disbelieve in heaven, you changed just in time to get there.)
Just to eliminate possible excuses of having better things to waste time on, or maintaining honor in front of others, this is your situation:
You are in a spacecraft that has failed to get properly aligned for re-entry to Earth. It is a solo flight, nobody else with you. All your fuel was expended trying to correct course, but still that failed. Your batteries just ran out, and now you have no radio contact. In 60 minutes, you will enter the atmosphere at much too steep an angle and burn up.
Would anyone here maintain disbelief at that point, and if so, why?
Hey it's not so easy to begin believe just now. And believe means 100%. Nobody can believe this way and despite it, everything you hear from believers is - you must belive fully to go to heaven. Every normal human has doubt and I think more and more doubts if you have to believe in something, which doesn't have any proof. So my answer is, yes, I could try to be hypocritical for a moment or thing about it once again 
| redace919 wrote: |
| you must belive fully to go to heaven. |
Well, according to what I've heard, you only have to believe enough to ask for forgiveness, et cetera...
That does require some belief, but does not require 100%.Since I'm agnostic I'll reply as such and leave atheism to the atheists.
If I were to maintain my agnosticism in this situation I would not be maintaining my "disbelief." Also, agnostics do not believe that they'll be "gone" as soon as their body functions cease. We believe that people have no idea what will happen and no rational justification for believing one thing over any other.
When I sit in a forest, or just take a quiet moment to consider the world around me, the sentiment I feel is awe. Not faith, or love, or knowledge, but awe. I know that I am a part of something much larger than myself, which I cannot, in all likelihood, fully understand. That larger something is the only thing that I would consider worthy of the name God, and I fully "believe" it exists. I can prove as much just by looking around.
I've read so many versions of the paradise myth that I just can't take it seriously. It's human psychology, an extension of our animal natures - the parts of us that discern between beneficial and harmful, desire and fear - past our lifetimes and into death. It simply doesn't make sense that the universe would be ordered in such a way. I have no illusions about the worthiness of a human being to live beyond its natural lifetime. I see no reason that God should behave like a human being behaves on earth, and if my individual "soul" or mind is truly eternal, then I see no reason why that should behave like a human being either. Something unknowable happens to us when we die - this is both a scientific and spiritual statement. Awe at the mystery of being, the notion of deity as impersonal, immanent and trascendent - these are very old forms of religion.
To go even further, no one has suggested to me that I should look at the world this way. There's no incentive for me to do so. It's just the way I see the world. What if abandoning my true opinion for fear of punishment were in itself punishable by some deity? All the world's religions conflict in their regulations, or lack thereof. How am I to know how to avoid offending the deity, or deities? In absence of effective guidance, I think it's best that I follow my own heart, and that's what my heart thinks too. Some would go so far as to say that the clearest messages of God come from within, not from without.
Really, there would be no temptation at all to convert, and the risk-reward scenario you set out depends on a Christian-style cosmology actually manifesting itself as fact. There's just no way that would happen. I will approach death as an experience, a hugely significant experience, and not more than that.
No. Nothing happens after death. Why would I change my lifestyle for no reason even if it's for 60 minutes? Perhaps I would actually attempt to enjoy those last 60 minutes rather than try to impress an imaginary being.
I don't think its possible for an (filthy) atheist to become pure in just 60 minutes; it requires spiritual will and progression of the soul...
to quote my father: Only a weak person needs a religion!!!
I don't think i would become religious unless he/she/it actually stood before me and told me to worship him/her/it. And even if i started believing i think i would still be very skeptical about it all.
i dont think i would, i wouldnt want to spend my last 60 seconds lying to myself, i dont believe in god, and if this ultimate being is there then he knows that i have spent my life, probably sinfully in its eyes, but i dont think i would want to ask forgivness for living my life to the full and enjoying myself, i have been a good person, and i think that any loving god that doesnt see that isnt worthy of my pleading to be let into his heaven,.
I suppose I would give it a shot, though I suspect many people out there are too proud to do the same.
(This is a classis question known as 'Pascal's Wager')
http://www.atheist-community.org/faq/#pascals_wager
Yes I would maintain disbelief. The reason is twofold.
1) I genuinely don't believe. Why, then, should I suddenly change my beliefs? Am I so shallow that I would believe something 'just in case'? I like to think not.
2) If there really is a God, then he/she/it is going to know that I genuinely didn't believe in he/she/it for most of my life, and any God who was persuaded to treat me differently because of a last minute, self-serving, conversion to belief in them would not be a God that I would want to know better.
There are other reasons - some of which are highlighted in the reference above..... | Bikerman wrote: |
There are other reasons - some of which are highlighted in the reference above..... |
Your reasons are good, but the ones in the reference are mostly negated by the short time limit, and the fact that I don't care which religion you would convert to.
Though, in #2, a God that would take you in, even though your conversion was short and shallow must be pretty good, I'd think. In any case, it would be better than hell. | ocalhoun wrote: |
| Though, in #2, a God that would take you in, even though your conversion was short and shallow must be pretty good, I'd think. In any case, it would be better than hell. |
A god that would send you to hell for disbelief (or even unbelief!!!) in the first place can't be "pretty good" at all. The fact that he will give you a break if you accede to his threats at the last minute makes him no less than a petty thug that happens to be nice enough to follow through on the good part of his blackmail threat.Well, I wouldn't exactly jump and suddenly say I believe in God. What I would do if I were in such a dire situation. I'd close my eyes, think of my love ones, and then pray to whatever being there is that's not visible to the human eye. "Save me" And should I end up in hell, heaven or earth, it don't matter anymore.
I guess I would pray to someone to take care of all my people, or pray in my heart to that they stay in good health. I dont know, u can't just start beileving in God .
