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Santa Claus was Evil? The truth about Santa's sinister past!





ocalhoun
In Germany's black forest, before Christianity came to the place, they had a legend about creatures called tomtin. These were wholly evil little dwarf-like creatures, who wore red (the color of blood). They would band together, pull a traveler to the ground and beat him.

The tomtin had a leader, though. He was known as Nacht Rupert. Nacht Rupert would sometimes come into villages taking a small army of tomtin with him, and could sometimes be seen peering into windows. He would often kill those he was watching, unless the people inside were keeping to the old faiths, in which case he would give gifts.

When the Catholic faith made it to the area, they were appalled at such a thing, and decided to replace the notion with a saint, who happened to be St. Nicholas. At first, though, this did not erase his sinister reputation. For some time, he was known as 'Buller Claus' (translates to 'Belled 'Nicholas') because of the chains and bells that he carried. When he approached a house, the tomtin went ahead to rouse sleeping children, drag them from their beds, and ask them questions on the Christian catechism. If they could not answer or answered incorrectly, the tomtin beat them with sharp sticks and chains while St. Nicholas pelted them with hard coal until they bled and the tomtin licked the blood from their wounds. If they were able to answer correctly, they were (grudgingly) rewarded with an apple or sweetmeat. Luckily, St. Nicholas would only come once a year, on a certain day in winter.

Later, the image of the tomtin softened, and they became 'Santa's little helpers' or 'Christmas Elves'. Also, things changed around a bit, and now it is Santa who wears the red (color of blood) suit.

Just think of that next time you see Santa at the shopping mall!
loryl
omgosh. Sad

I really hope that isn't true. Even though I've never believed in Santa Claus, I don't really want to think of a nice old guy like that!
McDucque
hehehe, true or not, that's some pretty cool information that I found myself pulled into reading Smile
doppleganger
As a result of an overwhelming lack of requests, and with research help from
that renown scientific journal SPY magazine (January, 1990) - I am pleased to
present the annual scientific inquiry into Santa Claus.

1) No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000 species of
living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects
and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only Santa
has ever seen.

2) There are 2 billion children (persons under 1Cool in the world.
BUT since Santa doesn’t (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and
Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378
million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census)
rate of 3.5 children per household, that’s 91.8 million homes. One presumes
there’s at least one good child in each.

3) Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different
time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west
(which seems logical). This works out to 822.6 visits per second.
This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa
has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the
chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the
tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back
into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each of these
91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course,
we know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept),
we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75-1/2
million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once
every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc.

This means that Santa’s sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000
times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man- made
vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per
second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

4) The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming
that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set (2 pounds),
the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably
described as overweight. On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more
than 300 pounds. Even granting that “flying reindeer” (see point #1) could
pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even
nine. We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even
counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons.
Again, for comparison - this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.

5) 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air
resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as
a spacecraft reentering the earth’s atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer
will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each. In short,
they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer
behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake.
The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a
second. Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06
times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim)
would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

In conclusion - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he’s
dead now.

http://manish.frihost.net
Genesiz
@doppleganger - you just have to ruin everything dont you Wink

I can however prove how Santa can complete his mission in the allocated time. If we assume that he does indeed have flying reindeer, than we can assume that Santa himself has been blessed with magical powers (a traditional superhero if you will). Now, if Santa had discovered he had superpowers, we can assume he decided to use them for good.

The superpower that springs to mind, to allow him to complete his mission is the ability to stop time. So all he has to do is stop time, deliver his gifts, and his mission is done. And, if he consumes the amount of mince pies left to him by each household in this stopped time, he is effectively eating a massive amount of food in a spliyt second. Is it any wonder he is so fat. Of course, this whole theory hangs on the idea that people can have superpowers, but we all know that is true anyway.

So, i do believe i have proved Santa's existence.
jylan
And Christmas is actually something that the pagans invented... Anyone who really believes in Santa should read this post Twisted Evil

The story about how Santa Claus originated is really quite scary. Do you have a source of where it came from or were you told about it?
smokey4life
Wow thats crazy i never heard anything like that before but its kinda interesting however. Where did all this come about? i would like to read more about all this just out of boredom really.
gamerhost
That makes me look at Santa a whole new way!


(I believe...Do You?)
coolclay
Yea, I've never heard that before, nor could I find any substantial evidence on the web either. So I'd be hard pressed to believe it.
jylan
Just checked on the Wikipedia article on Santa Claus and it didn't mention anything about tomtins. It seems that the idea of Santa started way back in quite a lot of countries and cultures. Read more about because it is really quite detailed.
ocalhoun
adeydas wrote:
But where did you get the story?!?


A book on vampires around the world. Since the tomtin licked up the blood of their victims, they qualified to be included in this book.


Of course, this is just one of the many different myths that have merged into santa claus, there are others no doubt, but I bet this is the most disturbing myth that figures into jolly old st. nick's background.
crimson_aria
I don't remember ever believing in Santa Claus, prolly because my parents never introduced me to him, never taught me to wait for his coming in the chimney or keep socks under the Christmas tree. xD

though, I won't be surprised if he is real. that story is scary. Santa Claus beating up kids. >.< interesting read. thank you.
Vrythramax
hmmmm...interesting points on both sides of the fence, as for myself....I don't trust any fat old man who who has no kown address (homeless?) and is virtually untraceable, is interested only in small children, wants them to sit on his lap and recite if they are naughty or nice, and gives them gifts.

Rather sounds like a classic pedophile. Twisted Evil
rvec
Vrythramax wrote:
hmmmm...interesting points on both sides of the fence, as for myself....I don't trust any fat old man who who has no kown address (homeless?) and is virtually untraceable, is interested only in small children, wants them to sit on his lap and recite if they are naughty or nice, and gives them gifts.

Rather sounds like a classic pedophile. Twisted Evil

always so optimistic Shocked

He lives on the north pole (dûh) and live underground in a magic place where modern technology can't find him. He isn't fat he just has big bones, and yes he's old but that makes him wise. He's not only interested in small children, also in other people who believe in him (mostly small children). Children are BAD or nice, not naughty Razz
adeydas
here's how america got its santa claus:

The American version of the Santa Claus figure received its inspiration and its name from the Dutch legend of Sinter Klaas, brought by settlers to New York in the 17th century.

As early as 1773 the name appeared in the American press as "St. A Claus," but it was the popular author Washington Irving who gave Americans their first detailed information about the Dutch version of Saint Nicholas. In his History of New York, published in 1809 under the pseudonym Diedrich Knickerbocker, Irving described the arrival of the saint on horseback (unaccompanied by Black Peter) each Eve of Saint Nicholas.

This Dutch-American Saint Nick achieved his fully Americanized form in 1823 in the poem A Visit From Saint Nicholas more commonly known as The Night Before Christmas by writer Clement Clarke Moore. Moore included such details as the names of the reindeer; Santa Claus's laughs, winks, and nods; and the method by which Saint Nicholas, referred to as an elf, returns up the chimney. (Moore's phrase "lays his finger aside of his nose" was drawn directly from Irving's 1809 description.)



nast 1881The American image of Santa Claus was further elaborated by illustrator Thomas Nast, who depicted a rotund Santa for Christmas issues of Harper's magazine from the 1860s to the 1880s. Nast added such details as Santa's workshop at the North Pole and Santa's list of the good and bad children of the world. A human-sized version of Santa Claus, rather than the elf of Moore's poem, was depicted in a series of illustrations for Coca-Cola advertisements introduced in 1931. In modern versions of the Santa Claus legend, only his toy-shop workers are elves. Rudolph, the ninth reindeer, with a red and shiny nose, was invented in 1939 by an advertising writer for the Montgomery Ward Company.

In looking for the historical roots of Santa Claus, one must go very deep in the past. One discovers that Santa Claus as we know him is a combination of many different legends and mythical creatures.

The basis for the Christian-era Santa Claus is Bishop Nicholas of Smyrna (Izmir), in what is now Turkey. Nicholas lived in the 4th century A.D. He was very rich, generous, and loving toward children. Often he gave joy to poor children by throwing gifts in through their windows.

PictureThe Orthodox Church later raised St. Nicholas, miracle worker, to a position of great esteem. It was in his honor that Russia's oldest church, for example, was built. For its part, the Roman Catholic Church honored Nicholas as one who helped children and the poor. St. Nicholas became the patron saint of children and seafarers. His name day is December 6th.

PictureIn the Protestant areas of central and northern Germany, St. Nicholas later became known as der Weinachtsmann. In England he came to be called Father Christmas. St. Nicholas made his way to the United States with Dutch immigrants, and began to be referred to as Santa Claus.

PictureIn North American poetry and illustrations, Santa Claus, in his white beard, red jacket and pompom-topped cap, would sally forth on the night before Christmas in his sleigh, pulled by eight reindeer, and climb down chimneys to leave his gifts in stockings children set out on the fireplace's mantelpiece.

Children naturally wanted to know where Santa Claus actually came from. Where did he live when he wasn't delivering presents? Those questions gave rise to the legend that Santa Claus lived at the North Pole, where his Christmas-gift workshop was also located.

In 1925, since grazing reindeer would not be possible at the North Pole, newspapers revealed that Santa Claus in fact lived in Finnish Lapland. "Uncle Markus", Markus Rautio, who compared the popular "Children's hour" on Finnish public radio, revealed the great secret for the first time in 1927: Santa Claus lives on Lapland's Korvatunturi - "Ear Fell"

The fell, which is situated directly on Finland's eastern frontier, somewhat resembles a hare's ears - which are in fact Santa Claus's ears, with which he listens to hear if the world's children are being nice. Santa has the assistance of a busy group of elves, who have quite their own history in Scandinanvian legend.

Picture: Ear FellOver the centuries, customs from different parts of the Northern Hemisphere thus came together and created the whole world's Santa Claus - the ageless, timeless, deathless white-bearded man who gives out gifts on Christmas and always returns to Korvatunturi in Finnish Lapland.

Picture: North American SantaSince the 1950s, Santa has happily sojourned at Napapiiri, near Rovaniemi, at times other than Christmas, to meet children and the young at heart. By 1985 his visits to Napapiiri had become so regular that he established his own Santa Claus Office there. He comes there every day of the year to hear what children want for Christmas and to talk with children who have arrived from around the world. Santa Claus Village is also the location of Santa's main Post Office, which receives children's letters from the four corners of the world.
iyepes
Acording to wikipedia, It's interesting that there's a talk page for those who disagree about the wikipedia version, and now the page is protected from editing, until the disputes have ben resolved. Shocked

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus

Santa Claus, also known as Saint Nicholas, Father Christmas, Kris Kringle, or simply "Santa" is a fictional folklore figure who, in Western cultures, is presented as bringing gifts on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day or on his feast day, December 6. The legend may have its basis in hagiographical tales concerning the historical figure of Saint Nicholas.

The popular North American form Santa Claus is derived from the Dutch Sinterklaas, which in turn is a contracted form of Sint Nicolaas (Saint Nicholas). However, the Dutch Sinterklaas is depicted as being very different from Santa Claus in many ways. Santa Claus has a suit that comes in many colors depending on the country[citation needed]. The most common depiction (red with white cuffs, collar, and black leather belt) became the more popular image in the United States in the 19th century due to the significant influence of Thomas Nast. In the mid-20th Century a series of Coca-Cola advertisements featuring a Santa Claus drawn rotund and jovial by artist Haddon Sundblom popularized Nast's depiction.

There are controversial aspects of the Santa Claus fiction. Some Christians feel he takes the focus of Christmas away from Jesus Christ; others feel it is unhealthy for parents to orchestrate elaborate lies to their children to enforce their belief in Santa Claus. Others oppose Santa Claus as a symbol of the commercialization and conspicuous consumption of the Christmas holiday, and as an intrusion upon their own national traditions.
Vrythramax
@Rvec

I was refering to the song "Santa Clause is coming to town", in which it says clearly "he's making a list, he's checking it twice, he's gonna find out who's naughty or nice".

My optimism IS contagious isn't it? Laughing
KronikSindrome
I thought this would be a post about how he smokes crack (how else would he stay up all night)
or how he totaly runs a sweat shop, those elves are being held against their will you know.....
or how mrs. 'clause is in truth a drag queen..... or about his cruelty to animals.... I mean super
gluing that flashlight to rudolph's nose......not cool......and then there's the fact that he breaks into
our houses and steals our cookies....i mean...wtf...right?


evil bastard, Rolling Eyes




Wink
Vrythramax
KronikSindrome wrote:
I thought this would be a post about how he smokes crack (how else would he stay up all night)
or how he totaly runs a sweat shop, those elves are being held against their will you know.....
or how mrs. 'clause is in truth a drag queen..... or about his cruelty to animals.... I mean super
gluing that flashlight to rudolph's nose......not cool......and then there's the fact that he breaks into
our houses and steals our cookies....i mean...wtf...right?


evil bastard, Rolling Eyes




Wink


You have a real mean streak...I love it! Twisted Evil Cool
divinitywolf
personally i disagree with that story.
I think the image of santa with the red suit was created by the coca cola company for some reason unknown to me but santa is satan spelt differently Razz
liljp617
Santa Claus is based on Saint Nicholas who was well known for giving poor children gifts on December 6th (his feast day) or at the end of December. This means Santa in all technicality derived from Christianity. Later, German and pagan influence, as well as modern influences, transformed this into the Santa we know today. So basically, the idea that Santa was derived from German mythology is false, because German influence played no factor until after Christianity and it says, "In Germany's black forest, before Christianity came to the place..."

NO SIR!
Bakkabakka
ocalhoun wrote:
In Germany's black forest, before Christianity came to the place, they had a legend about creatures called tomtin. These were wholly evil little dwarf-like creatures, who wore red (the color of blood). They would band together, pull a traveler to the ground and beat him....


Umm, I've never heard of Tomtins in Germany (I study German and I lived there for a while). However, the word reminds me of the Scandinavian Tomtar (Tomte in singular), which were pretty much good at heart and took care of us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomte#Similar_folklore


Although, I have heard of the legend before that there was an evil creature that crept in from people's chimneys and ate bad children (or just took them with him), and he's supposed to be one of the myths building up the Santa we know today.

I think all this debate really shows us is that we shouldn't forget that Santa has many origins and not just claim him as Christian. The Finnish Santa Claus (Joulupukki), for example, has its roots in the Finnish pagan culture before Christianity ever came to Finland.
standready
ocalhoun, that is one creepy story you found about vampires. I do find it hard to believe that Santa Claus came that though.
Bluedoll
This certainly is an old post Dec08 2007, wow. So basically this means that old guy that woke me up that night was not Santa?
Laughing Laughing Laughing
catscratches
divinitywolf wrote:
personally i disagree with that story.
I think the image of santa with the red suit was created by the coca cola company for some reason unknown to me but santa is satan spelt differently Razz
This is true. The original santa wasn't red, hence the color of these so-called "tomtins" doesn't correlate with the color of St. Nicholas' clothes.
I've yet to find any confirmation for the tomtins.

The Scandinavian "tomtar", however, are indeed part of the folklore. They were very similar to house-spirits. They took care of the animals and the house as long as you kept yourself in good favor with them. This can be done eg. by leaving a plate of porrige outside your door during Yule for the "tomte" to eat. This might be derived from the old Yule-sacrifices (blóts).
Though, if you didn't treat them well they might play some tricks on you and be mean. They wouldn't beat people up in the woods and drink their blood, though...
deanhills
And probably Nacht Rupert must be very insulted that Santas Reindeer has been called after him? Or is Rupert, the red-nosed Reindeer an incarnation of Nacht Rupert? Shocked Very Happy
Segun3d
KronikSindrome wrote:
I thought this would be a post about how he smokes crack (how else would he stay up all night)
or how he totaly runs a sweat shop, those elves are being held against their will you know.....
or how mrs. 'clause is in truth a drag queen..... or about his cruelty to animals.... I mean super
gluing that flashlight to rudolph's nose......not cool......and then there's the fact that he breaks into
our houses and steals our cookies....i mean...wtf...right?


evil bastard, Rolling Eyes




Wink
YOU NEED HELP!!!
Not everyone does dope like you...
BEG CHRIST FOR FORGIVENESS
AND REPENT ELSE YOU WILL END UP WITH Evil or Very Mad DUDE
omale55
I think santa claus is just a myth. I don't believe in santa. But I have to say I really enjoyed reading most of the posts on this topic. They were quite interesting. But I even if there was a santa, I doubt he was evil or anything. I think he must have been a good person and not a tomtin (that is a myth too).
maveric1028
. So I was reading the other day about an old German legend about a guy named Nacht Ruprecht. Here is an excerpt from the book:

The woodland depths were alive with all kinds of foul creatures who could threaten humankind….Many of these were believed to be ‘little people’ who went under the general classifications of goblins, elves, dwarves, or trolls. The most vicious of these were the tomtin, little men dressed in red (the color of blood) who were known to attack travellers on lonely forest roads.

Sadistic creatures, the tomtin were associated, in Germanic folklore, with a number of ancient beings who were said to live even deeper in the forest, venturing out into the world of men only at certain times of the year. These entities were probably the embodiment of old, nearly forgotten forest or fertility gods that had been worshipped by the early German tribes and bore such names as Nacht Ruprecht (a bizarre and alarming figure, adorned in straw and antlers) and Schwartz Peeter (a grim, black, muscular figure, like a giant blacksmith). The tomtin were considered to be their servants, murdering travellers at their behest. Pulling travellers to the ground, the tomtin beat them with chains or with barbed sticks or poles until they were dead and then commenced to lap up their blood like dogs. They bore back the hearts and livers of those they killed as sustenance to their ancient masters amongst the trees.

Many of the entities chose to manifest themselves during the winter months. Nacht Ruprecht, for example, would come to the windows of the cottages and peer in, generally terrifying those within. Accompanied by his close servant, George Oaf, who was armed with a great whip or flail, and with the tomtin thronging after him, he travelled the snow-covered roads, beating and often killing those whom he met. To those who worshipped him, or kept old faiths alive, he offered rewards.

The veneration of these ancient deities alarmed the Church so much that they decided to supplant the idea of a supernatural pagan being travelling around dispensing gifts and rewards with a Christian counterpart. And the person whom the Church chose was St. Nicholas. Ironically, the bloodthirsty, blood-drinking tomtin were now attached to this Christian saint.

They did not, however, initially lose any of their brutish and depraved ways. In parts of Germany, St. Nicholas was known as “Buller Claus” (Belled Nicholas) because of the chains and bells that he carried. When he approached a house, the tomtin went ahead to rouse sleeping children, drag them from their beds, and ask them questions on the Christian catechism. If they could not answer or answered incorrectly, the tomtin beat them with sharp sticks whilst St. Nicholas pelted them with hard coal until they bled and the tomtin licked the blood from their wounds. If they were able to answer correctly, they were (grudgingly) rewarded with an apple or sweetmeat. Later, the image of the tomtin softened, and in a move of supreme irony, they became ‘Santa’s little helpers’ or ‘Christmas elves.’

I always wondered why you got “coal” in your stocking if you were bad.

Note that I am not sure any of the above is actually true. I looked for independent confirmation that this story was correct and didn’t find any. Also the description of Nacht Ruprecht is very similar to the Master of the Hunt, which is Celtic, which makes me wonder if the author just made it up.

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XiXiDu on January 26, 2009 at 10:02 am

Knecht Ruprecht: http://de.wikipedia.or g/wiki/Knecht_Ruprec ht

http://en.wikipedia.or g/wiki/Companions_of _Saint_Nichola s

…Knecht Ruprecht, which translates as Farmhand Ruprecht or Servant Ruprecht.

 Reply

ajax on January 26, 2009 at 11:45 am

He’s normally called “Knecht Ruprecht” or Krampus in southern Germany. “Nacht” is just night. Perhaps you’ll get better google with results with that.

 Reply

XiXiDu on January 26, 2009 at 12:50 pm

Ah never heard of Krampus, guess because I live in western Germany

http://de.wikipedia.or g/wiki/Krampus ^German Wiki page has some nice photos.

http://en.wikipedia.or g/wiki/Krampus

This one is also interesting: http://en.wikipedia.or g/wiki/Perchta

 Reply

physicsandcak e on January 29, 2009 at 11:14 am

Reminds me of when I was younger, I built a ‘snow-dragon’ as I thought snowmen were a bit boring

 Reply

Chester on January 29, 2009 at 10:58 pm

I recall Geordie building a “snow computer” once…. I think it was still faster than the average Windoze today…

 Reply

brian wang on January 30, 2009 at 12:05 am

Does the $50 million for the institute of quantum computing (waterloo) help dwave in anyway ? Was there funding in other parts of new budget ? http://www.nanowerk .com/news/newsid=9084.p hp

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jajarvin
I which that children stilll will believe in Santa Claus.
grofet
I believe that there are many conspicary out there. Many bad things become good with conspicary. I believe Jesus, Valentine, Romeo and Juliet are conspiracy. We need to know the truth but there are many people will protect the conspiracy.
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