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RTS not enjoing attention?





Vladalf
I saw that every year many role playing games, first person shooters and driving games are beeing made but i haven't seen rts games. There could be many improvments to this genre but it seems like noone understands it's full potential. What do you think?
kicy
I used to enjoy some Homeworld: Cataclyse (or how ever you spell it), it was fun to play but I prefer turn based because I can plan out what to do, I don't play well rushed ><.

How do you think these can be improved though?
catscratches
You know, RTS is the hardest game genre that is possible making. The AI is incredibly hard to make. And you need to get the game experience perfectly balanced at the same time as it should be different and have many options. You have no idéa of how hard it is to make. It's easier making a perfect FPS game than making an average RTS.
QrafTee
Vladalf wrote:
I saw that every year many role playing games, first person shooters and driving games are beeing made but i haven't seen rts games. There could be many improvments to this genre but it seems like noone understands it's full potential. What do you think?

Um... ultimate weapons... New units, New races, Resource management, Land/Air/Sea/Space units, Ultimate units, fully user-created unique units, flying/cloaking buildings, CGI cutscenes, live-action cutscenes, limit-one units, hero units, item purchases, DOTA, tag, game-imitating maps, etc. etc. Are they improvements enough?
Vladalf
Those are from the game design. I wanted to say improvments as new sistems or something. No game has same units/cutscenes/interface as the others on the other hand the games have the same sistems.
PseudoKnight
World in Conflict -- finally a game that changes the RTS direction that people have been paying attention to. (except people here, apparently?) The Ground Control series is highly rated.

There are some decent developments in RTS games and there are some great RTS games of late, but the genre doesn't get a heck of a lot of attention, just like Adventure or TBS. It's all about FPS, RPG, Platformer, Action-Adventure, etc.
Pikokola
Quote:
Those are from the game design. I wanted to say improvments as new sistems or something. No game has same units/cutscenes/interface as the others on the other hand the games have the same sistems.


I think there's one... what does it called... Spellforce : Dragon what?

It had a hero which can wear equipment (no, not like Warcraft : DoTA, but more likely Diablo), I think that's the first time I meet that kind of system.

moreover, what kind of system improvements that you hope?
Vladalf
Pikokola wrote:
Quote:
Those are from the game design. I wanted to say improvments as new sistems or something. No game has same units/cutscenes/interface as the others on the other hand the games have the same sistems.


I think there's one... what does it called... Spellforce : Dragon what?

It had a hero which can wear equipment (no, not like Warcraft : DoTA, but more likely Diablo), I think that's the first time I meet that kind of system.

moreover, what kind of system improvements that you hope?


Well I don't know but they could introduce sistems they are kind of using at other genres like: '' the world shaping after the player's actions '' or something like that. I think game designers would get some preety cool ideeas.
Kelcey
Well SC2 is coming. We'll see how that does.
PseudoKnight
SC2 is actually going to be pretty conventional as that's what the fans want. (and what I want) No doubt they'll include new elements that play in style with the rest of the game, though. Look for new IPs like World in Conflict, Perimeter, Conquest: Frontier Wars, Darwinia, and Defcon for innovative ideas in RTS games. Though, it should be noted that Blizzard made some great strides with WCIII, especially with their campaign editor, which just rocks.
Vladalf
All Blizzard games are inovative and simply awesome! I'm looking forward to SC2.
PseudoKnight
Innovation in Blizzard games can be debated. It's not really their strong point. They're more of a studio that refines gameplay and backs it up with some excellent art. I'm a big fan of theirs, but as far as gameplay goes they rarely do anything new. That's not a problem for me.
blk3
There are lots of innovations thru the years like having customizable heroes, frust person view of heroes, units that evolve or changes, etc. But sad to say that a NEW innovation every year I think thats very hard to find. As most RTS follow almost same formulas.
kicy
catscratches wrote:
You know, RTS is the hardest game genre that is possible making. The AI is incredibly hard to make. And you need to get the game experience perfectly balanced at the same time as it should be different and have many options. You have no idéa of how hard it is to make. It's easier making a perfect FPS game than making an average RTS.


I disagree, rts arn't the hardest game to make. The most challenging part of it is the AI and that can be easly done by someone with some experience. I remeber someone made a AI (for a rts) that learned and got better everytime you played against it.

The hardest game to make is a game that is based in what your lacking in. If your not perceptive then AI is not for you, and maybe you understand other parts of programming someone else doesn't.
PseudoKnight
Quote:
like having customizable heroes, frust person view of heroes, units that evolve or changes, etc.
None of those were first done by Blizzard.
exarkun
No any RTS game lately!? WOw you should have check out Warhammer 40k, World in Conflict, Supreme Commander and Company of Heroes. They are the classical game of the world I can assure you that. Good AI plus graphic. These are the games I played during lan-ing night with my friends.
Kitten Kong
Although there have been a few very good RTS releases over the past few years it is true that they no longer are pumped out with the frequency they once were. The main reason for this in my opinion is that more and more games are being geared towards cross platform release. As an RTS is generally unlpayable without the good ol' keyboard and mouse setup they are not good candidates for consoles that are mainly controlled via gamepads. You'll find that nearly all RTS's in the history of RTS's were solely for PC, this is why we are having YET another period where the market is awash with FPS.

It seems the only break we get from the endless storm of first person shooters is the MMORPG, but my god they suck up so much time and give so little in return.
catscratches
Doesn't all games? Confused
vonboy
I don't know why, but i always get bored from rts's. They just all seem to be the same in some way.

ALthough i did like 1602 A.D, which was based more on building a strong economy, and trading. you can declare war on other islands, but you only have 4 types of ships and 4 types of land units.
achowles
THQ seem to be about the only major support with Company of Heroes and the Dawn of War series.

There is also Supreme Commander, but I found that one a little dry.

I think that the main problem is that developers are out of ideas for the genre. They don't seem to know how to get around the whole tank rush syndrome which essentially renders a great many titles more or less indistinguishable from one another.

Company of Heroes really did a lot to bring some fresh exciting gameplay to the genre without radically altering the foundations.

Supreme Commander also resurrected some of the best gameplay mechanics in an RTS (Total Annihilation) that I would love to see used again in another title.

So there's hope there, but there's one major hurdle for RTS games: consoles. If you want to have any major success then your game has to be playable on consoles. While they might not be so good at FPS and RPG games, at least they're playable on consoles. RTS games just don't really work on that platform. That's why the support is so limited.
endless
whats rts
Seiji
Its Real Time Strategy

A few of my friends are still crazy over WCIII and when I watch G4TV they always show a few RTS games and they usually get high ratings. I personally can't get into them since most are rather complicated.
Nutteloos
Although it's more like TBS, I rather liked Civilization: IV. A lot of depth in there, I like that in a strategy game. The Anno: 1502 series are very good too.
kicy
achowles wrote:
THQ seem to be about the only major support with Company of Heroes and the Dawn of War series.

There is also Supreme Commander, but I found that one a little dry.

I think that the main problem is that developers are out of ideas for the genre. They don't seem to know how to get around the whole tank rush syndrome which essentially renders a great many titles more or less indistinguishable from one another.

Company of Heroes really did a lot to bring some fresh exciting gameplay to the genre without radically altering the foundations.

Supreme Commander also resurrected some of the best gameplay mechanics in an RTS (Total Annihilation) that I would love to see used again in another title.

So there's hope there, but there's one major hurdle for RTS games: consoles. If you want to have any major success then your game has to be playable on consoles. While they might not be so good at FPS and RPG games, at least they're playable on consoles. RTS games just don't really work on that platform. That's why the support is so limited.



Developers are not creative enough to allow support for consoles... or they are just being lazy.
Nutteloos
Indeed - there's ample of opportunities for console RTS, developers are just not willing enough to put funds and effort into it.

Admittedly, making a non-turnbased strategy game for a console might be challenging because of the frustrating controls, but it should definitely be possible.
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