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Americans, are you thankful?





Billy Hill
This is just another day in the Islamic world. You really should be thankful that you don't have to deal with this...

Associated Press wrote:
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — The Saudi judiciary on Tuesday defended a court verdict that sentenced a 19-year-old victim of a gang rape to six months in jail and 200 lashes because she was with an unrelated male when they were attacked.

The Shiite Muslim woman had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicted of violating Saudi Arabia's rigid Islamic law requiring segregation of the sexes.


Rolling Eyes
loyal
Billy Hill wrote:
This is just another day in the Islamic world.


First of all, it's obvious you know nothing about the "islamic word" as you have called it.
Secondly, it's the "islamic world" but the arab world. Not all arabs are Muslims.
Thirdly, from my knowledge, only saudi arabia has crazy laws which have nothing to do with Islam. Saudi arabia itself is ruled by a violent crazy group called the wahabbis.
Fourthly, if you knew anything about Islam and Muslims, you'd know that the wahabbis are a very intolerant group. The woman was a shia, and therefore, i am utterly convinced that she is being punished for being shia. It has nothing to do with rape. The court sees "shia" and they instantly condemn. A relative of mine recently suffered from the lack of co-operation from the police with a big crime, because she is a shia.
Fifth, if you and "associated press" read carefully, it says she isn't being punished for being raped. She's being punished for being with an unrelated male.

Sixth, please don't selective quote. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/5318835.html says
Quote:
But in considering her appeal of the verdict, the Saudi General Court increased the punishment. It also roughly doubled prison sentences for the seven men convicted of raping the woman, Saudi news media said last week.


The men have been punished (even if you and i think the punishment is not harsh enough, they still have been punished).

Seventh, the story is unreliable. "The victim says she was in a car with a male student she used to know trying to retrieve a picture of her. She says two men got into the car and drove them to a secluded area where she was raped by seven men."
How the world do two men get into a car and drive you somewhere?
Obviously, the woman and the man are in the front. So how did the two men get in and drive? Did one sit in the lap of the man and another sit on the lap of the woman? How impossible

Or maybe even more impossible, the two men pulled the woman and man out of the car. Then threw them into back of the car. Right...and to add to the impossibility, why didn't the man and the woman attack the two men while they were being driven? Or maybe they were too busy putting on their seat belts *sarcastic*. Or why didn't they jump out of the car?

Also, it says that the two men drove the man and woman to a secluded area with seven men in (so, the two men didn't join in?)...now either that's planned which puts doubt onto the research into the story, or the two men simply took the man and woman for a pleasant drive, where they just happened to let the man and woman get raped.

Eighth, i'm not sure if anyone's told you, but the media isn't reliable. There is absoluetly no proof whatsoever that this even happened. And i extremely doubt it did.

Quote:

You really should be thankful that you don't have to deal with this...


Instead, america has to deal with the guilt of death of troops, innocent women and children, in an illegal war, which caused iraq to loose all sense of security (don't even try to challenge me on this. I have family in iraq), caused economic problems, and infiltration of terriosts (iraq didn't harbour any terriosts until america interrupted). At the end of the day, i suppose it doesn't matter...not when the oil is making a load of money.

By the way, many more women get raped in america, than they do in saudi arabia.

Please be unbiased when you next read an article. Consider, its reliability, source, authenticity, and so on.

Also, i don't think your post qualifies as acceptable, according to http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-6378.html . It contains no opinions except an emoticon of rolling your eyes.

Peace.
Arnie
Er.. shia? What's that? I stopped reading from there on... Something seems to be wrong if you claim this has nothing at all to do with Islam and yet are assuming such words known to readers...
horseatingweeds
The Shia are members of an Islamic denomination who argue the successor to Muhammad. They're a minority. In Iraq they are in conflict with the Sunni denomination. There is also tribal identity.

loyal, regardless of the validity of the story, Billy made his point and opinion clear. In the US this couldn't happen for a number of reasons. If it did, there is a number of other reasons it would be quickly corrected.

Such things are set in place now because people in the past have sacrificed to make it that way. Minorities fought for minority rights, non-minorities fought for minority right, soldiers have sacrificed around the world to protect the country and its allies. This is his point by, "are you thankful?"

It's a good question.

As for your whining about Iraq, get off your high-horse. The US went after Sadam because it saw a threat to itself, its allies, and the rest of the free world. She's learned her lesson in waiting for her enemies to grow into a clear and present danger. You can argue the wisdom of the decision but your attitude is belligerent. Oil money???? You really think the US is after oil revenue???? If that were the motivation the invasion was truly unwise.

Just be thankful where ever you are. Bash American all you want, you have that right and the technology to do it on this forum. American doesn't mind. She knows such freedom are an inalienable right of all people and has secured that right for you and all currently free nations by ending her isolationism and crushing the power who have threatened productive society throughout the entire past century and will continue to do so in this.
Billy Hill
loyal wrote:
First of all, it's obvious you know nothing about the "islamic word" as you have called it.


Perhaps you could educate me. But I doubt it.

Quote:
Secondly, it's the "islamic world" but the arab world. Not all arabs are Muslims.


I didn't say it, AP did...

Quote:
Saudi Arabia's rigid Islamic law requiring segregation of the sexes



Quote:
Thirdly, from my knowledge, only saudi arabia has crazy laws which have nothing to do with Islam.


Wrong. Do some homework.

Quote:
Fifth, if you and "associated press" read carefully, it says she isn't being punished for being raped. She's being punished for being with an unrelated male.


Oh. Right. That makes it all better, doesn't it?

Quote:
Sixth, please don't selective quote. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/5318835.html says
"But in considering her appeal of the verdict, the Saudi General Court increased the punishment. It also roughly doubled prison sentences for the seven men convicted of raping the woman, Saudi news media said last week."

The men have been punished (even if you and i think the punishment is not harsh enough, they still have been punished).


Good point. For once.

Quote:
Seventh, the story is unreliable.


So is your assumption that I know nothing of Islam, Muslims and human rights.

Quote:
Eighth, i'm not sure if anyone's told you, but the media isn't reliable. There is absoluetly no proof whatsoever that this even happened. And i extremely doubt it did.


I don't just "believe" what people tell me. I investigate for myself.
Quote:


Quote:

You really should be thankful that you don't have to deal with this...


Instead, america has to deal with the guilt of death of troops, innocent women and children, in an illegal war, which caused iraq to loose all sense of security (don't even try to challenge me on this. I have family in iraq), caused economic problems, and infiltration of terriosts (iraq didn't harbour any terriosts until america interrupted). At the end of the day, i suppose it doesn't matter...not when the oil is making a load of money.


The dead Iraqi's are mostly dead because of other radical Islamic Muslims. I have friends in Iraq that are alive because of the US military. And they're thankful.

Quote:
By the way, many more women get raped in america, than they do in saudi arabia.


1) prove it. 2) If it's true, it's likely because rape is against the law here so it gets reported (and counted)

Quote:
Please be unbiased when you next read an article. Consider, its reliability, source, authenticity, and so on.


See my reply to "Eighth" above.

Quote:
Also, i don't think your post qualifies as acceptable, according to http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-6378.html . It contains no opinions except an emoticon of rolling your eyes.


dictionary.com wrote:
e·mo·ti·con (ĭ-mō'tĭ-kŏn') Pronunciation Key
n. A sideways facial glyph used in e-mail to indicate an emotion or attitude, as to indicate intended humor


Consider that my opinion of the matter. Rolling Eyes
Billy Hill
horseatingweeds wrote:
Just be thankful where ever you are. Bash American all you want, you have that right and the technology to do it on this forum. American doesn't mind. She knows such freedom are an inalienable right of all people and has secured that right for you and all currently free nations by ending her isolationism and crushing the power who have threatened productive society throughout the entire past century and will continue to do so in this.


:clapping:

'tis true. You can literally thank the US for a (mostly) free world. But you don't have to, we really don't give a crap. We have our freedom and we'll do with it as we please. You have yours, do with it as YOU please. Very Happy
horseatingweeds
Come now Billy, we do to give a crap. It's hard some times when all anyone can do is sit on liberated soil fertilized with our dead and complain about things like Iraq. Especially when they accuse our nation of only wanting Iraqi oil. (some people also have trouble with math....)

People expect the US to be perfect. They complain when we go to war and complain when we don't. Complain about the oil we use but not the food we grow with it. Complain about American commercialism then get a job with a US company.

We have a slight slowing of growth and everyone starts cheering for our society to crumble.

We care. For some of us, it's our hobby. We ARE fallible but we will also save you ass with a brigade of six foot tall 220 pound mid-western patriots who have been shooting squirrels and deer easily at a range of 100 - 300 yards since they where 9-years-old. They may not know your culture or how to tell you to stop your care, but give them a break.
polly-gone
Billy Hill wrote:
This is just another day in the Islamic world. You really should be thankful that you don't have to deal with this...


You know, I think this comment is completely out of line. Most likely, you said it because Thanksgiving is coming up. Well, guess what. The only reason Thanksgiving is on the day it is, is because Franklin D. Roosevelt put it there to try to boost the United Statian(see blog post http://www.frihost.com/users/polly-gone/blog/vp-80123.html) economy after the great depression. The previous position it was at was there because Abraham Lincoln put it there. The only reason it is there, is because Abe wanted to revive it. It was there in the first place because George Washington was happy we won the war so it was originally a one time thing, just to replicate the first Thanksgiving (which, by the way, was a religious holiday, that didn't actually have an corn, potatoes or a turkey) which was a religious thing. I think your comment is out of line because you want sympathy because of a certain situtation (are you even Saudi Arabian?) or even worse, just to point out how you think America is "stuck-up" or that our situtation is too good. Well, I hate to break it to you, but even though our government is **********************, we are fighting an illegal war, and we are doing things we shouldn't, we just always weren't like this. We worked for it. Pretty amazing for only 200 years of work. I think you just want to rip on America. That is all that your post is about. I really don't even know how this is "World News" It's a dig. The only news you gave was a slective quote.

That is was the psychologist half of me says. Now, for the regular 14 year-old boy:

Shut up.

-Nick Mad Mad Mad

P.S. This was actually an analysis of Billy Hill. About how he is out of line, really.
jwellsy
This is a repeat thread.
Read the forum thread titles before posting new threads.
polly-gone
Actually, it isn't. There are two threads on the same topic, but they are completely different. Plus, if this one gets closed, I am going to hunt down the mod who does it and poke him reapeatedly with a chicken wing.

-Nick Smile Smile Smile


Reason for edit: I forgot to say -Nick Smile Smile Smile
LumberJack
I seem to recall a big deal about WMD's in Iraq.... oh well.

Oil, could have been a another motive. I wouldn't put anything past government these days
liljp617
Billy Hill wrote:
horseatingweeds wrote:
Just be thankful where ever you are. Bash American all you want, you have that right and the technology to do it on this forum. American doesn't mind. She knows such freedom are an inalienable right of all people and has secured that right for you and all currently free nations by ending her isolationism and crushing the power who have threatened productive society throughout the entire past century and will continue to do so in this.


:clapping:

'tis true. You can literally thank the US for a (mostly) free world. But you don't have to, we really don't give a crap. We have our freedom and we'll do with it as we please. You have yours, do with it as YOU please. Very Happy

I hope you all realize this is exactly the egotistical, "we're better than you ******" mentality that whole heartedly turns foreigners off towards the US on a daily basis.

This is coming from an American.


On another subject, anyone who thinks this war is over oil is retarded and feeding into media bullshit. It has nothing to do with oil. Every bit of the oil in Iraq is being put towards their economy. If we were taking the oil we wouldn't have gas prices at $4 a gallon (not as high as some countries, but it would definitely be lower with the oil in Iraq). And if this war was over oil, there's multiple countries in the Middle East that have more...so basically this dumb theory that it's over oil is just that: dumb.


On subject, I think it's odd we celebrate a day of Thanksgiving that revolves around the near genocide of Native Americans and the stealing of their land. But who am I to be a pessimist? Very Happy Let's eat!
Moonspider
liljp617 wrote:

On subject, I think it's odd we celebrate a day of Thanksgiving that revolves around the near genocide of Native Americans and the stealing of their land. But who am I to be a pessimist? Very Happy Let's eat!


Thanksgiving has always revolved aroung peace and cooperation. It in no way celebrates genocide! And never has.

A note from an American Indian on the recent Seattle school district foul up:

Daryl Williams wrote:
Native Americans in the Northwest celebrate the holiday with turkey and salmon, said Daryl Williams of the Tulalip Tribes. Before the period of bitter and violent relationships between natives and their culturally European counterparts, they worked together to survive, he said.

"The spirit of Thanksgiving, of people working together to help each other, is the spirit I think that needs to grow in this country, because this country has gotten very divisive," he said.


I wholeheartedly agree with him. My Indian blood will be celebrating alongside my European blood.

Respectfully,
M
horseatingweeds
liljp617 wrote:

I hope you all realize this is exactly the egotistical, "we're better than you ******" mentality that whole heartedly turns foreigners off towards the US on a daily basis.



Come on lil, you call that egotistical superiority? I guess that's just one more thing stupid Americans can't do write. But it's not arrogant to bash Americas every move in her FORTH attempt to rescue the free world, this time almost alone?

The only time most Americans bring up there grand victories are when people are bashing them and acting as if the US is only after pity self interest.

Do you realize how hypocritical YOU sound?
LimpFish
When I went to America I found it funny that most americans believed that the whole world (or at leasts the western world) celebrated Thanksgiving Smile Hey btw dont you americans celebrate the Swedish independence day too?? I bet the whole world does... Rolling Eyes
polis
I think we have a lot of topics talking about war on iraq. I won't talk about it, and hope you all stop driving this conversation to nowhere.

Back to the main topic, I think that no matter what crime a person commit, he/she should never received such punishment. It is totally cruel and makes no sense at all.
horseatingweeds
LimpFish wrote:
When I went to America I found it funny that most americans believed that the whole world (or at leasts the western world) celebrated Thanksgiving Smile Hey btw dont you americans celebrate the Swedish independence day too?? I bet the whole world does... Rolling Eyes


Were you talking to other child perhaps? Maybe you misunderstood and people thought the western world had some equivalent.

But, you are right. It is silly to think other countries have a major holiday focused on giving and being thankful for what they have - Very American.
liljp617
horseatingweeds wrote:
liljp617 wrote:

I hope you all realize this is exactly the egotistical, "we're better than you ******" mentality that whole heartedly turns foreigners off towards the US on a daily basis.



Come on lil, you call that egotistical superiority? I guess that's just one more thing stupid Americans can't do write. But it's not arrogant to bash Americas every move in her FORTH attempt to rescue the free world, this time almost alone?

The only time most Americans bring up there grand victories are when people are bashing them and acting as if the US is only after pity self interest.

Do you realize how hypocritical YOU sound?

Sorry for being hypocritical. I like the reputation of my country and its people to be good...not one of being stuck up ****** who think they own the world and are better than everyone. My apologies for feeling this way.
horseatingweeds
liljp617 wrote:
horseatingweeds wrote:
liljp617 wrote:

I hope you all realize this is exactly the egotistical, "we're better than you ******" mentality that whole heartedly turns foreigners off towards the US on a daily basis.



Come on lil, you call that egotistical superiority? I guess that's just one more thing stupid Americans can't do write. But it's not arrogant to bash Americas every move in her FORTH attempt to rescue the free world, this time almost alone?

The only time most Americans bring up there grand victories are when people are bashing them and acting as if the US is only after pity self interest.

Do you realize how hypocritical YOU sound?

Sorry for being hypocritical. I like the reputation of my country and its people to be good...not one of being stuck up ****** who think they own the world and are better than everyone. My apologies for feeling this way.


I'm not sure what country you're from but it would seem that one would hold his to a better standard than "not one of being stuck up ****** who think they own the world and are better than everyone."

If you're attempt is to insinuate that American is such, it only shows who is actually stuck-up. Your attempt would also be poor. If Americans where stuck up they wouldn't like foreign people, stuff, and causes to much and would not be willing to defend them. If she thought she owned the world she would own a lot more of it by now - but, alas, after conquering vast amounts of land, the only amount she keeps is enough to bury those who died taking it.

As for Americans thinking they're better than everyone else, maybe they do. Most people in all countries tend to consider their way the best. However, throughout this past century she has stepped up to defend those other countries and their way.

Regardless of how you feel or why you feel that way, I doubt without America's past and current sacrifices you would have the freedom to express it. Not under Imperial Germany, Nazis, or Soviets. Also, without her continued sacrifice I doubt your children will have such freedom either.

this may sound stuck up or better than, but it's not. Americans aren't better or entitled, they're just believe in freedom and are big an willing. You don't have to thank them. You can even hate them. But when the aggressor is massed on your borders, if she can, she'll be there.
Billy Hill
horseatingweeds wrote:

But, you are right. It is silly to think other countries have a major holiday focused on giving and being thankful for what they have - Very American.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

Quote:
You know, I think this comment is completely out of line. Most likely, you said it because Thanksgiving is coming up.


Why's that? Because in Islam it's normal to treat your women like dogs? Like property?

Happy Thanksgiving you ********* stuck up Americans! Very Happy
liljp617
horseatingweeds wrote:
I'm not sure what country you're from but it would seem that one would hold his to a better standard than "not one of being stuck up ****** who think they own the world and are better than everyone."

If you're attempt is to insinuate that American is such, it only shows who is actually stuck-up. Your attempt would also be poor. If Americans where stuck up they wouldn't like foreign people, stuff, and causes to much and would not be willing to defend them. If she thought she owned the world she would own a lot more of it by now - but, alas, after conquering vast amounts of land, the only amount she keeps is enough to bury those who died taking it.

As for Americans thinking they're better than everyone else, maybe they do. Most people in all countries tend to consider their way the best. However, throughout this past century she has stepped up to defend those other countries and their way.

Regardless of how you feel or why you feel that way, I doubt without America's past and current sacrifices you would have the freedom to express it. Not under Imperial Germany, Nazis, or Soviets. Also, without her continued sacrifice I doubt your children will have such freedom either.

this may sound stuck up or better than, but it's not. Americans aren't better or entitled, they're just believe in freedom and are big an willing. You don't have to thank them. You can even hate them. But when the aggressor is massed on your borders, if she can, she'll be there.


I'm American and this..

Billy Hill wrote:
'tis true. You can literally thank the US for a (mostly) free world. But you don't have to, we really don't give a crap. We have our freedom and we'll do with it as we please. You have yours, do with it as YOU please. Very Happy


is being a stuck up ******. Can't say I really care to argue over it. The US is not responsible for most of the free world (that's what the history books teach us in school, but it's not the truth. The victors always write the history books...it's propaganda). And the idea of not caring what other countries think of us leads to bad foreign relations...luckily, most people in charge don't think this way.

It took us three years to even involve ourselves militarily in WWII. Russia had already taken the vast brunt of the war. DDay was nice, except Russia was already in Berlin. We've been an isolationist country in every major war that didn't directly involve our homeland being harmed. We throw money at situations thinking it will make them better without realizing that throwing money at people solves nothing and only makes the situation worse. The list goes on an on to dispute your theory of the US.

No, I don't hate the country, I love it. I love what it's supposed to represent and what it used to represent. Our intentions are always the best, but that's rarely what comes out. This idea that the we have some magical gift to offer the world, a gift which no one else can acquire without our help, is exactly what gets us in terrible positions in the world. The idea that we're some glorious nation that has never done any wrong or shed any blood unnecessarily also adds to that. We've done some very great things in our short existence, but we've done plenty of harmful things to the world as well. Now, I'm all for patriotism, but there's quite the difference between patriotism and nationalism/chauvinism.

This idea that we can do whatever the hell we want without giving a damn about other countries opinions/views just because we are offering this great gift of freedom is propaganda fed to every American through history books. Not all of it is of course, but we've done quite a number of harmful things to the world that the general public often ignores because our intentions were nice.
polly-gone
Billy Hill wrote:

Quote:
You know, I think this comment is completely out of line. Most likely, you said it because Thanksgiving is coming up.


Why's that? Because in Islam it's normal to treat your women like dogs? Like property?

Happy Thanksgiving you ********* stuck up Americans! Very Happy


There you go with selective quoting again. Try reading the whole post. I never said that what you are trying to say is out of line. I said what you did say is.
horseatingweeds
liljp617 wrote:


is being a stuck up ******. Can't say I really care to argue over it. The US is not responsible for most of the free world (that's what the history books teach us in school, but it's not the truth. The victors always write the history books...it's propaganda). And the idea of not caring what other countries think of us leads to bad foreign relations...luckily, most people in charge don't think this way.

It took us three years to even involve ourselves militarily in WWII. Russia had already taken the vast brunt of the war. DDay was nice, except Russia was already in Berlin. We've been an isolationist country in every major war that didn't directly involve our homeland being harmed. We throw money at situations thinking it will make them better without realizing that throwing money at people solves nothing and only makes the situation worse. The list goes on an on to dispute your theory of the US.

No, I don't hate the country, I love it. I love what it's supposed to represent and what it used to represent. Our intentions are always the best, but that's rarely what comes out. This idea that the we have some magical gift to offer the world, a gift which no one else can acquire without our help, is exactly what gets us in terrible positions in the world. The idea that we're some glorious nation that has never done any wrong or shed any blood unnecessarily also adds to that. We've done some very great things in our short existence, but we've done plenty of harmful things to the world as well. Now, I'm all for patriotism, but there's quite the difference between patriotism and nationalism/chauvinism.

This idea that we can do whatever the hell we want without giving a damn about other countries opinions/views just because we are offering this great gift of freedom is propaganda fed to every American through history books. Not all of it is of course, but we've done quite a number of harmful things to the world that the general public often ignores because our intentions were nice.


What in the world are you talking about?

WWI: US took forever getting involved and when she did she had to build an army from ground up. Italy, Romania, Russia, and of course Belgium had all collapsed - unable to fight. The French army suffered a rebellions until Petain took over and the British were no better off, both broken on the verge of defeat. The huge masses of German forces from the east made their way to the west, outnumbering the Allies by a lot. On March 3, 1918 the Germans actually pushed through a 40 mile stretch around St. Mihiel with 3/4 of a million men against the British defenders, outnumbering them 3 - 1. That's just the facts. Germany was on its way to Paris while the Americans were entering the war.

WWII: Yes, the Russian took the bulk of the German ground forces (the French apparently were not so inclined). Now, pay attentions here. Remember West Germany, the Iron Curtain? We'll that "nice" D-day you refer to was actually several d-days that brought allies forces into continental Europe and FREED the place, not only from Hitler but also from the expansionist Soviets. Then there was Japan. The US took that aggressor all on it's own not only liberating Asia from the Japanese but also Japan from the Soviets (this was the rush to defeat her quick, with the Soviets on their way).

Cold War: This war only the US could win. USSR was expanding. The US took measures to slow it, some not so wise but it was a new and complex conflict. Victory was found in America's strong capitalist economy. It forced the Soviets to bankrupt themselves trying to keep up with US weapons technology. The US was prepared for more as well. Conventional military equipment and training during the 60s 70s and 80s were all focused on the European theater against the Soviets.

I don't know what Hippy suburbian school you went to, but I didn't learn much history in school. I get after all kinds of stuff on my own just because I find it interesting. Regardless of who's feelings it hurts now, the fact is the US rescued its allies three distinct times that prevented Europe from loosing its freedom.

Additionally, your statements are biased. No one said the US has to be present for anyone to win freedom, or the US can do what ever it wants, or that the US does nothing wrong or is some super-happy-fun better-than. I don't know where your getting this. My point was simply that the world is frustrated with the US because they have been able to depend on her competence and strength, and lately people are questioning it - just like they were before the turning of advantage in WWI, WWII, and the Cold War. There is also the huge media showing off all the bad and the fact that the free world is to comfortable to understand a war for any reason.

I was also pointing out that people are stupid who sit around and bash the US for its mistakes and act like it's some selfish belligerent jack-ass when that belligerent jack-ass left her private shores to secure that complainer's right to complain. More than any country I can think of, the US is open to criticism - but HELL if she's not going to learn her lessons of the past and sit idly by while aggressors pois them selves ONCE AGAIN to threaten the free world.

The only reason Europe can function the way it does is because of the US. This is one more reason they're frustrated. They need the US to be strong and competent. At this stage of the war on the ideology of Fascist Fundamentalist Islam everyone's worried.

Non of this is arrogant - it is fact - and the only reason I bring it up is to defend my countries honor from you and other so called patriots who dishonor her and the people who have sacrificed for the very freedom to dishonor her.

If you really love your country find something productive to contribute rather than whine and complain about mistakes, she has way plenty of these people. What she needs is more dedicated people, the kind she has always had, who are willing to dedicate themselves to steering her in the right direction despite popular opinion and harm to themselves.

The US has made lots of mistakes. But that's what happens when you take the jobs no one else is willing or able to do. She fights the fights that give her no credit for winning and will blaim her for loosing!!!!
LimpFish
horseatingweeds wrote:
LimpFish wrote:
When I went to America I found it funny that most americans believed that the whole world (or at leasts the western world) celebrated Thanksgiving Smile Hey btw dont you americans celebrate the Swedish independence day too?? I bet the whole world does... Rolling Eyes


Were you talking to other child perhaps? Maybe you misunderstood and people thought the western world had some equivalent.

But, you are right. It is silly to think other countries have a major holiday focused on giving and being thankful for what they have - Very American.


? I think you misunderstood my post. I was not talking to "other child". I just found their assumptions that everyone celebrate the same holidays as them kinda funny.

And no, we don't have a holiday focused on giving and being thankful for what we have, we don't need one, needing that is very american indeed. Over here we are thankful the whole year around.
horseatingweeds
LimpFish wrote:
horseatingweeds wrote:
LimpFish wrote:
When I went to America I found it funny that most americans believed that the whole world (or at leasts the western world) celebrated Thanksgiving Smile Hey btw dont you americans celebrate the Swedish independence day too?? I bet the whole world does... Rolling Eyes


Were you talking to other child perhaps? Maybe you misunderstood and people thought the western world had some equivalent.

But, you are right. It is silly to think other countries have a major holiday focused on giving and being thankful for what they have - Very American.


? I think you misunderstood my post. I was not talking to "other child". I just found their assumptions that everyone celebrate the same holidays as them kinda funny.

And no, we don't have a holiday focused on giving and being thankful for what we have, we don't need one, needing that is very american indeed. Over here we are thankful the whole year around.


And I assumed you were talking about children because any American over 5-years-old with any amount of education wouldn't assume every other country celebrates the same holidays.

It's good you're thankful year round, even if you don't have a time to celebrate or focus on it. Now you just need to learn about giving - but then, from what I understand, you're more of an isolationist that allows the US to take care of everything while you complain about its mistakes and pretend they're all stupid and you're so smart and worldly.
Moonspider
liljp617 wrote:
D-Day was nice, except Russia was already in Berlin.


I'm not sure to which D-Day you are referring ("D-Day" is a generic term used in any military offensive), but if you are referring to the most famous D-Day, 06 June 1944, you are way off on the location of Soviet forces at the time. Soviet forces did not reach Berlin until April 21, 1945.

On a side note, although we can remember the sacrifice of the Russian people against the Germans, let us not forget that Stalin was an ally of Hitler at the war's outset (the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact), invading Poland from the East as Hitler invaded it from the West in 1939. The USSR did not become an ally until Hitler betrayed Stalin in 1940, catching Stalin with his pants down.

Respectfully,
M
LimpFish
horseatingweeds wrote:

And I assumed you were talking about children because any American over 5-years-old with any amount of education wouldn't assume every other country celebrates the same holidays.


Well that's what I thought too... until I went there Wink

horseatingweeds wrote:

It's good you're thankful year round, even if you don't have a time to celebrate or focus on it. Now you just need to learn about giving - but then, from what I understand, you're more of an isolationist that allows the US to take care of everything while you complain about its mistakes and pretend they're all stupid and you're so smart and worldly.


Well now that is a very balanced comment... Where did you get isolationist from? If you (despite being american) would know anything about the world outside of your own country (or even state), you would know that it's kinda sarcastic for an american to call a swede an isolationist. Now I know you won't understand why, so I guess it doesn't matter..

And where did you get all this crap from? All I said was that I thought it was kinda funny that a lot of the people I met assumed we celebrated thanksgiving too. I never called them stupid. They are all good friends of me and they are great people. I like americans, but from now on I guess there are exceptions to that.
horseatingweeds
I don't know LimpFish, your comments made me angry. In truth, I can easily image some American dodering about just assuming the Chinese celebrate 4th of July. The way you stated it, though, made it sound like you think Americans are stupid.

You call my calling Sweden an Isolationist sarcastic. I don't see how that is sarcastic, unless you're referring to America's history of time and time again attempting isolationism. Of course she broke it temporarily to aid your southern friends twice and for the past 30 years has stayed open. You could also be referring to the ninnies who think the world is steeling American jobs and our economy would be better off under Isolationism.

My point was simple that Sweden keeps to its self and it neighbor. I can't say I'm an expert on Swedish history though. I do remember you guys hiding up there during WWI and WWII, very un-norsmen-like. Of course, after joining the UN you were a little helpful in places like South Korea.

The thing people I think don't understand, when they make their snuddy remarks about Americans not leaving their country or state, not being "worldly" is that America is an entire world on its own. I've been all over the US. I live in Michigan now but grew up in Oklahoma and Arkansas, very different places. They spoke the same language - sort of.

I've been to Canada as well, but the south is much more different from Michigan than Canada is. I don't ever remember thinking that the world celebrated the same holidays, but I do remember, even as a child, learning about different countries and finding out that they have similar holidays at different times. For instance, everyone seems to have some kind of national bride day similar to our Independence day.

Anyone who thinks Americans are unworldly can just remember in the US you can drive three days in one direction, all the while eating the exact same food from McDonalds and shopping at the same k-mart. Or, along the way you could could visit 100 different cultures and places with an identity as unique as any lone country is anymore.

You can't tell me a person wouldn't find as much of a difference between Texas, LA, NY, Las Vegas, and Florida as they would between Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Germany, and France. Any way, I like the your new crossway to Denmark - that is truly a feat of engineering, even if an accident caused you to build the bridge a few feet over.... Wink
LimpFish
well yeah your comments made me angry to but I guess it's all good now Smile

What I meant being sarcastic about Sweden being isolationist is that we actually accept the most refugees and immigrants from outside of the EU of all the countries in EU. We study english in school from like second grade, and a third language is also mandatory from around seventh grade. It is also common to take a fourth language. I wouldnt agree that we keep to ourselves and our neighbours. It is true that the nordic countries have always been very close because of our similar cultures and our history together, but I would not say we keep to ourselves. We are only 9 million swedes, but whereever in the world I've been, Ive always met swedes everywhere, in the most strange places. So Im not sure how you would say we are isolationist.

And about WWII, I am kind of ashamed of how my country acted. Although I guess we did an extremely good diplomatic job from our own perspective, Sweden was pretty much left as a neutral country in the war, I dont think what we did was morally very right, but I guess that might've been the only thing we could do, what do I know.

Btw what accident are you referring to regarding our bridge to Denmark?
horseatingweeds
Hi LimpFish,

I wouldn't call Sweden Isolationist. Possibly in comparison to the US, but comparing most industrialized countries in such a way would be a mess. They're all so close.

9 million, you're like a big town. Laughing How's the weather in Sweden? From a map it look cold. I live in Michigan, longitude wise it's in the same place as France, but the weather is much colder. There's some system that pushes down the cold air. I'd like to move....

From what I remember about your bridge, and tell me if I'm confused, the first pilling, one of the ones with the wide bottom that sits on the sea bead, when they wee sinking it, it shifted over a bit. Trying to lift it would have been difficult so instead they just shifted everything over. Someone got to spend a good day in the blueprint room that day perhaps.

I'm trying to remember all the components in that passage, is it two tunnels and a bridge? It has that island that made. That was a good idea.
LumberJack
Billy Hill wrote:
horseatingweeds wrote:

But, you are right. It is silly to think other countries have a major holiday focused on giving and being thankful for what they have - Very American.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

Quote:
You know, I think this comment is completely out of line. Most likely, you said it because Thanksgiving is coming up.


Why's that? Because in Islam it's normal to treat your women like dogs? Like property?

Happy Thanksgiving you ********* stuck up Americans! Very Happy


Read Islam, women aren't property. Most people in the middle east use Islam to justify it. Kind of like how Catholics aren't suppose to use condoms Smile

Besides, with the United States setting a real good example with how it treats its homeless people, African American population, Gays & Homosexuals, and people critical of the Iraq war. They have a real good example to learn from.
Bru, stuffce
I read about this in the UK press. The crime was that the girl met illegally with the boy (who was also raped, by the way). There are suggestions that she was having an affair with the man, but who knows? The story given out by the justice Ministry is that she "was in an indecent condition as she had tossed away her clothes" in the throes of passion, one presumes.

Rightly or wrongly, she was breaking the law and was subject to punishment. This story was inflated quite a lot by the various Zionist agencies that collect news that reflects badly on any Islamic state unfortunate enough to be run by loonies. However the courts action in increasing the sentence from 90 to 200 lashes was simple arse. They were just being vindictive because she embarrassed them and the KSA.

This sort of lunacy is always popular in the press and you would think that Saudi's rulers would stand up against it, given the embarrassment it causes them. It's OK for them to be vicious, antediluvian hypocrites provided no-one gets hurt, but hurting a woman for an extra-marital affair is ridiculous, unless you are her husband, in which case I can understand some anger.
Billy Hill
LumberJack wrote:
Read Islam, women aren't property.


Oh. That's good.

I'm glad you clarified that because many of the actions I've seen over the decades say otherwise. Wink

Quote:
Besides, with the United States setting a real good example with how it treats its ... Gays & Homosexuals.


Yeah, because in places like Iran they "don't have gays" (psst, because they're killed or too afraid to come out of the closet. Yeah, great examples there, Islam) and here in the US there's a huge debate about letting them get married. Shocked

And to be honest, I can't think of a better place to be homeless, of different religion, color, sexual orientation etc etc etc etc etc... Nobody goes hungry here. You live the way you want to live, unless you ****** with someone else.

Yeah, we treat 'em real bad here. Laughing Laughing
horseatingweeds
Billy Hill wrote:

Quote:
Besides, with the United States setting a real good example with how it treats its ... Gays & Homosexuals.


Yeah, because in places like Iran they "don't have gays" (psst, because they're killed or too afraid to come out of the closet. Yeah, great examples there, Islam) and here in the US there's a huge debate about letting them get married. Shocked

And to be honest, I can't think of a better place to be homeless, of different religion, color, sexual orientation etc etc etc etc etc... Nobody goes hungry here. You live the way you want to live, unless you ****** with someone else.

Yeah, we treat 'em real bad here. Laughing Laughing


Shocked I thought that was a genuine complement! Seriously, where would it be better to be ....
Billy Hill
horseatingweeds wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:

Quote:
Besides, with the United States setting a real good example with how it treats its ... Gays & Homosexuals.


Yeah, because in places like Iran they "don't have gays" (psst, because they're killed or too afraid to come out of the closet. Yeah, great examples there, Islam) and here in the US there's a huge debate about letting them get married. Shocked

And to be honest, I can't think of a better place to be homeless, of different religion, color, sexual orientation etc etc etc etc etc... Nobody goes hungry here. You live the way you want to live, unless you ****** with someone else.

Yeah, we treat 'em real bad here. Laughing Laughing


Shocked I thought that was a genuine complement! Seriously, where would it be better to be ....


Psst: technically, it is. But that's not how he meant it, so I clarified it for him. :p
LumberJack
Hate against Homosexuals, and current hate laws not adequate enough to properly punish.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071129_1__OKLAH83042


FBI Stats on Hate Crimes in the USA

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2006/victims.html


Killing Homeless people in Florida

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/1-14-2006-86377.asp

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/06/nyregion/06homeless.html?_r=1&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/H/Homeless%20Persons&oref=slogin

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/h/homeless_persons/index.html?query=ASSAULTS&field=des&match=exact


I could go on, but what is the point. Should people judge all Americans by what the lunatic few do? Nope. Ask yourself if doing the same in the middle east is also warranted.
Billy Hill
LumberJack wrote:
Hate against Homosexuals, and current hate laws not adequate enough to properly punish.


I could go on, but what is the point. Should people judge all Americans by what the lunatic few do? Nope. Ask yourself if doing the same in the middle east is also warranted.


Hate Laws? Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, any of those Islamic nations have Hate Laws? Any at all?

Surely you jest!

Oh, that's right, I forgot about these: Hate Jews. Hate Infidels. Hate Christianity. Hate Hindu, Hate Equality. Hate anyone who names a teddy bear Mohammad. Hate. Hate. Hate. Blah blah ef'n blah.

Oh, but wait, I forgot... I'm not supposed to ****** with Muslims, am I? Rolling Eyes
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