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Toilet Rules in Islam





MadeinIndia
Rules of going to toilet in Islam:
Quote:

* Say before entering the toilet: In the name of Allah, O Allah! I seek refuge with You from all offensive and wicked things (Al-Bukhaaree)
* One should enter the toilet with the left foot and leave with the right foot.
* It is not permissible to enter the toilet whilst carrying or wearing anything bearing the name of Allah, such as the Quran, or any book with the name of Allah in it, or jewelry such as bracelets or necklaces engraved with the name of Allah.
* One should remain silent whilst on the toilet. Talking, answering greetings or greeting others is forbidden.[2]
* One should not face nor turn your back on Al-Qiblah whilst relieving yourself.[3]
* One should be out of sight of people when going to the toilet
* It is considered forbidden to relieve oneself whilst standing up, lying down or if you are completely nude.[citation needed]
* One should avoid going to the toilet anywhere where people may take rest or gather for any purpose.
* Do not raise clothes until you get close to the ground and do not uncover the body any more than is needed.
* One should sit on the feet (e.g. squat) keeping thighs wide apart with the stress on the left foot.
* Do not look to the private parts of the body nor the waste matter passed from the body.
* Do not sit more than needed.
* Do not spit, blow nose, look hither and thither, touch the body unnecessarily nor look towards the sky but relieve oneself with the eyes downcast in modesty. [citation needed]
* After relieving oneself it is essential to perform Istinjaa (washing with water) of the anus and/or genitals with the left hand and water. The precise mode of performing Istinjaa has also been defined by religious leaders: "At the beginning of Istinja, it is preferable to use toilet paper three times. If Istinjaa is being done on a hot day, then the person should start from the front to the back and then from the back to the front and the third time from the front to the back. If Istinjaa is being done on a cold day, then he should begin from the back to the front. After wiping, he should wash his hand first and then he should cleanse himself with two fingers and three fingers if necessary together with ‘pouring’ water. When using the two fingers, one should keep the middle finger in front and the ring and index finger behind it. After beginning with the fingers in this position, he should bring the ring finger forward and rub with the middle finger and ring finger. Thereafter, he will wipe with the index finger, if necessary. He should continue until all the impurity and smell is removed. The left over water after Istinjaa is paak only if there is no impurity in it." (Mufti Ebrahim Desai) And further: "To wash the orifice with water, even though no filth is stuck to it after relieving oneself, is desirable. If the filth is sticking to it (less than a Dirham or equal to it) then the use of water is 'Sunnah' (optional) and in the case the filth stuck to the orifice is more than a Dirham then its washing with the water is 'Fard'. (obligatory)" Islamic Academy
* Other than toilet paper, water and the left hand Istinjaa can be performed with earth, grit, stones and worn-out cloths provided they are all clean. It is forbidden to perform Istinyaa with bone, any edible item, dry dung, baked brick, potsherd, coal, fodder, writing paper and anything which has even a small value.
* After this process the hands should also be washed.
* When leaving the toilet one should also say a prayer, "Praise be to Allah who relieved me of the filth and gave me relief."[4]

gh0stface wrote:
Please use the quote tags when copying from another source.

Source: Wikipedia.org
ocalhoun
Somebody please tell me that this is just a joke and not real...
dray101
interesting.... Rolling Eyes

I wonder how many rules (and prays) there are for other dirty practices....
furtasacra
Quote:
Other than toilet paper, water and the left hand Istinjaa can be performed with earth, grit, stones and worn-out cloths provided they are all clean. It is forbidden to perform Istinyaa with bone, any edible item, dry dung, baked brick, potsherd, coal, fodder, writing paper and anything which has even a small value.


What did they use back before the invention of toilet paper? This sounds like a fabrication created by a young person, unless the rules have been changed due to modern conveniences.
palavra
furtasacra wrote:
Quote:
Other than toilet paper, water and the left hand Istinjaa can be performed with earth, grit, stones and worn-out cloths provided they are all clean. It is forbidden to perform Istinyaa with bone, any edible item, dry dung, baked brick, potsherd, coal, fodder, writing paper and anything which has even a small value.


What did they use back before the invention of toilet paper? This sounds like a fabrication created by a young person, unless the rules have been changed due to modern conveniences.


or what did we (muslims) use before the invention of toilet?
same problem for the followers of other religions.

a friend of mine told me when he visit India he saw people still use public areas for toilet needings.
PMK-Bear
Note the 'should' part of each rule? It's not like you MUST.

Anyway, haredi jews in my brother's highschool also do most of that stuff, but they call it a mitzvah (an obligation, a must, etc) instead.
loyal
Peace.

MadeinIndia wrote:
Rules of going to toilet in Islam........


This seems more like an insult, than an intellectual attempt to converse about the rules of Islam.

Nevertheless, I shall go through the below to explain or whatever each "rule".

Quote:

* Say before entering the toilet: In the name of Allah, O Allah! I seek refuge with You from all offensive and wicked things (Al-Bukhaaree)


Completely unnecessary and not even a rule. Muslims can seek refuge in God before going anywhere or into any situation.

Quote:

* One should enter the toilet with the left foot and leave with the right foot.


In the first place, this is not a rule. Secondly, a false hadith says this.

Quote:

* It is not permissible to enter the toilet whilst carrying or wearing anything bearing the name of Allah, such as the Quran, or any book with the name of Allah in it, or jewelry such as bracelets or necklaces engraved with the name of Allah.


That isn't hard at all. Just don't bring in the Qur'an or anything with the name of Allah in arabic in the toliet. What's so hard or ridicolous about that?

Quote:

* One should remain silent whilst on the toilet. Talking, answering greetings or greeting others is forbidden.


There is no evidence for this whatsoever. I looked at the source. A story of how the prophet was supposedly urinating, when a guy passes to him, and the prophet doesn't reply, is not considered evidence by any logical and rational standards!
Also, i find it extremely unlikely that the prophet would urinate in front of another.

Quote:

* One should not face nor turn your back on Al-Qiblah whilst relieving yourself.[3]


There is no real evidence for this. It's more out of respect than being an actual recommendation or rule.

Quote:

* One should be out of sight of people when going to the toilet


Well duh!

Quote:

* It is considered forbidden to relieve oneself whilst standing up, lying down or if you are completely nude.[citation needed]


Well that's obviously untrue. What about men peeing standing up? They can do that.

Quote:

* One should avoid going to the toilet anywhere where people may take rest or gather for any purpose.


That doesn't seem to make any sense.

Quote:

* Do not raise clothes until you get close to the ground and do not uncover the body any more than is needed.

* One should sit on the feet (e.g. squat) keeping thighs wide apart with the stress on the left foot.
* Do not look to the private parts of the body nor the waste matter passed from the body.
* Do not sit more than needed.
* Do not spit, blow nose, look hither and thither, touch the body unnecessarily nor look towards the sky but relieve oneself with the eyes downcast in modesty. [citation needed]


Not rules, nor is there any evidence for these

Quote:
.
* After relieving oneself it is essential to perform Istinjaa (washing with water) of the anus and/or genitals with the left hand and water.


It's not essential, but it's very helpful. Muslims pray five times a day. To pray, they must be clean from faeces and urine. Wiping with tissues ain't perfect, and it leaves stains on the pants. Washing is much cooler.

I suppose you could not wash yourself, but you'd need to like take a bath a few times a day.

Quote:

The precise mode of performing Istinjaa has also been defined by religious leaders.........


That was hilarious to read.

There is no rule on how to use the toliet! It's ridicolous to say there is.

Any muslim who says these things apply, is going against the prophet who said that Islam should not be made a burden.

Quote:

* Other than toilet paper, water and the left hand Istinjaa can be performed with earth, grit, stones and worn-out cloths provided they are all clean. It is forbidden to perform Istinyaa with bone, any edible item, dry dung, baked brick, potsherd, coal, fodder, writing paper and anything which has even a small value.


There is not even a shred of evidence to support this.

Quote:

* After this process the hands should also be washed.


Some people DON'T wash their hands?! EWW!

Quote:

* When leaving the toilet one should also say a prayer, "Praise be to Allah who relieved me of the filth and gave me relief."[4]


This isn't a rule. Muslims can give thanks for anything.

----

To sum up, nearly all of the above are not rules or even recommended acts. They are mostly in fact, pieces of advice from a few muslims who clearly have too much free time.
Muslims don't stop to consider even three quarters of this stuff, because like i said, most of these are not even rules. The ones that are, are very logical. E.g. washing your hands.

In future, i hope to see something more productive in terms of discussion when it comes to Islam, MadeinIndia.

I don't know what your problem is with my religion, except the fact that some indian Muslims split your country into two. But how does that come out as the fault of Islam? It doesn't. It's the fault of those who split the country.

may God bless you. Peace.
moworks2
what a load of kaka Wink

kind regards

M
nbeerbower
I hope these aren't serious. Razz

Pretty funny anyway. Razz
MadeinIndia
Loyal, When I posted the article, I never said anything about ridiculous rules or anything. I just posted something what I saw in Wikipedia!

I did not find it funny except for the part that Islam has a rule or advice for everything or anything. I guess the word "Free Thinking" does not exist in your religion and you guys need a guide for everything. After seeing the reports emerging from Sudan about a school teacher jailed, thousands gathering to ask for her death, I am no more surprised at your religion. It is capable of any such ludicrous and funny things. What was the teachers mistake? She was teaching a group of school children and as a part of a school class, she asked to name their toys. Many students named their toys "Muhammed" - SHE DID NOT. All she thought was, if students like the name so much, okay and she gave approval. She did not belong to your religion, know the rules of your religion and it was KIDS for gods sake!! You psychos just need an issue to fight! I don't know which god will be angry if a bunch of small lovable kids want to name their toys after god...In fact he would be amused and happy!

All I am saying is, however you beat your chest regarding the great things of your religion, the "real" Islam followed everywhere is dangerous! Either you believe it or not! First teach about your religion to your own people and then talk to us!

As for my problems with Islam, it has nothing to do with Partition or anything. It is just about the chaos in this world. Some of my good friends are Muslims. I have an issue with "free thinking"...not just go blindly with a book like hypnotized zombies!
Coclus
wow that are pretty accurate rules..
meet in rio
MadeinIndia wrote:
I did not find it funny except for the part that Islam has a rule or advice for everything or anything. I guess the word "Free Thinking" does not exist in your religion and you guys need a guide for everything.


A lot of the time, there is going to be a 'best way' to go about things. I am not a Muslim - I am not religious - but I don't see what's wrong with having guidelines. Loyal gave a very intelligent and itemised response which you seem, largely, to have ignored. If I am assembling a flat-pack bookshelf then I will read the instructions because it's the sensible thing to do - there's no point in attempting to rebel for the sake of it. You can lampoon those rules all you like, but how would refusing to wash one's hands or defecate in private mark you out as a 'free thinker'? I'll not attempt to delve further into this because I'm really not sure that I even believe in god.

MadeinIndia wrote:
You psychos just need an issue to fight!


That is a huge and grotesque generalisation. As least try to disguise your insults with a little eloquence.
ocalhoun
meet in rio wrote:
but I don't see what's wrong with having guidelines.

As long as these 'guidelines' are not enforced.
Guidelines should be strings to help you find your way, leaving you free to abandon them, not chains to hold you back.
Billy Hill
Holly Shit! What a list!

They left out one...

* One shall not bring teddy bears named Muhammad into the toilet

Laughing
palavra
what about the other systems and religions?
do they have some regulations or not?
Bru, stuffce
Well, in France it's considered impolite to poo in someone else's desk drawers.

In Germany it is recommended to lower one's trousers and underpants before letting go.

In Catholic Christianity it is considered impolite to use the confessional as a toilet.

Some rules don't need to be spelled out.


Of course: In Britain it's considered OK for the government to crap all over the electorate when you want to invade a country and they don't.
HalfBloodPrince
If these are from Hadith books, they are trash. They are Islamic rules ONLY if they were in the Quran. Hadith books were made by scholars who want to bend the religion, the only source of religious guidance for Muslims should be from the Quran.
furtasacra
Bru, stuffce wrote:
Well, in France it's considered impolite to poo in someone else's desk drawers.


It's also considered bad form to poo in a bidet, I believe.

Quote:
Of course: In Britain it's considered OK for the government to crap all over the electorate when you want to invade a country and they don't.


This is also true in the United States, regardless of what religion our so-called representatives claim to follow.
JinTenshi
sheesh, creepy. so many rules just cause i wanna poo.
HalfBloodPrince
I will say this, and I will say it only once.

THOSE ARE NOT TRUE. THEY ARE MADE UP, AND NO-WHERE IN THE QURAN.


Quote:
The only issue which the Koran does touch upon in relation to toileting, is the one of washing one's hands especially following going to the toilet which is mentioned in verse 5:6 of the Koran.
furtasacra
HalfBloodPrince wrote:
I will say this, and I will say it only once.
THOSE ARE NOT TRUE. THEY ARE MADE UP, AND NO-WHERE IN THE QURAN.

MadeinIndia wrote:
Other than toilet paper, water and the left hand Istinjaa can be performed with earth, grit, stones and worn-out cloths provided they are all clean. It is forbidden to perform Istinyaa with bone, any edible item, dry dung, baked brick, potsherd, coal, fodder, writing paper and anything which has even a small value.
furtasacra wrote:
What did they use back before the invention of toilet paper? This sounds like a fabrication created by a young person, unless the rules have been changed due to modern conveniences.


Hmpph. Maybe I was guessing right. Anyway, what difference would it make, as long as your rear end isn't crusty and your hands are clean after you're done?
HalfBloodPrince
It is just said to wash yourself, and because back then they didn't have soap or strong cleaners, just water, it was recommended to clean with the left hand as you usually shake people's hand/greet them with the right hand.

And of course, it is said to clean your hands too.

Not all that garbage on the top. Now of course, use your common sense. Of course you don't sit on the toilet seat reading the Bible or the Quran.
iyepes
I'm almost sure it's true, in my country, there's an old custom about not giving or receiving anything with your left hand. It comes from Arabs coming to my country, more than a century ago, and they were forbiden of that, because his left hand was used for sanitary purposes. Later that idea spreaded the whole society. Some old fashioned people still keep that idea and refuses to use his left hand to give or receive anything.

This ritual, as many others mentioned in other sacred books like Bible, have an importan reason, avoid spreading of illness. You can see now UNICEF making campaings of whashing hands after going to the bathroom, changing a diaper and before cooking, to avoid infecting children with diarrhea, that can cause their death.

You can look in the Bible about impurity, for example when you touch a death person. It's also a ritual, but it has the same idea inside.
sefilim
I am muslim.But I don't perform any rule to go to toilet Very Happy
itolerance
Billy Hill wrote:
Holly Shit! What a list!

They left out one...

* One shall not bring teddy bears named Muhammad into the toilet

Laughing


you have a problem with muslim's hmm... Mad
Fake
So there is nothing really like a quick piss for muslims Very Happy
MadeinIndia
Well, I just pasted what's on Wikipedia! haha! But trust me, when you explore more, you will find some other gems!
Billy Hill
itolerance wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
Holly Shit! What a list!

They left out one...

* One shall not bring teddy bears named Muhammad into the toilet

Laughing


you have a problem with muslim's hmm... Mad


No. I have a problem with ANYONE that thinks it's ok to hate over a toy. I have a problem with ANYONE that thinks it's ok to murder over a cartoon.

Seriously, just because someone straps bombs to their chest and runs around yelling, "praise be to Alah!!!" as they run in to a crowded market or school doesn't mean they're a Muslim, does it?
ThePolemistis
Billy Hill wrote:

No. I have a problem with ANYONE that thinks it's ok to hate over a toy.


Smile... then u must also have a problem with Jews crying out "thats anti-semetic" to everything they hear. Hey,, its a crime to call a Jew "Jew" (according to google, search for jew in google and see the results)

Funny how anti-semetic is considered as racial hatred not religious hatred.
Funny how the word anti-semetic is applied to Jews only, and not Arabs who are also semites.
Billy Hill
ThePolemistis wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:

No. I have a problem with ANYONE that thinks it's ok to hate over a toy.


Smile... then u must also have a problem with Jews crying out "thats anti-semetic" to everything they hear. Hey,, its a crime to call a Jew "Jew" (according to google, search for jew in google and see the results)


1) If the jews are advocating murder over a toy or a cartoon, which I haven't heard of, I have a problem with it. Absolutely! Got examples of such atrocities?

2) Since when does Google make rules?? Oh, that's right, they're teaming up against you, aren't they? Laughing Laughing Laughing
loyal
[quote="Billy Hill"]
No. I have a problem with ANYONE that thinks it's ok to hate over a toy. I have a problem with ANYONE that thinks it's ok to murder over a cartoon.

Seriously, just because someone straps bombs to their chest and runs around yelling, "praise be to Alah!!!" as they run in to a crowded market or school doesn't mean they're a Muslim, does it?
1) If the jews are advocating murder over a toy or a cartoon, which I haven't heard of, I have a problem with it. Absolutely! Got examples of such atrocities?
/quote]

Stop giving the general image that all Muslims are sterotypical suicide bombers who kills if they were insulted.
Virtually all Muslims reacted peacefully, with a boycott, to the cartoon. The two or three that were crazy, were made to look the majority by the media.
I have not heard a single Muslim say that naming a teddy bear after a kid in a class is an insult. It turns out the media has twisted the story to make it look like masses of muslims took the streets and went crazy, which isn't true.

No doubt, you'll respond with you think is a witty comeback, but will just be another statement upholding ignorance and promoting the image that Muslims are all fanatical violent people.
Bryan_Bezzle
A Muslim person is the same as an atheist. Same as a Christian. Same as a Buddhist, or a Jewish person. No matter what our religion, or non religion for you athe-os, we all have the power to think what we want and do what we want. You can stereotype a whole organization and say they are likely to have the same tendencies, based on the little bit that we probably know of those other orgs. But you cannot single out each individual in those organizations and say, "You do and say and think the same as the rest of them since you call yourself one of them." Cant we all just get..........over ourselves?
Billy Hill
loyal wrote:

Stop giving the general image that all Muslims are sterotypical suicide bombers who kills if they were insulted.


I'm not. I'm giving the impression that all suicide bombers are Muslim. There's a difference. Wink
Bryan_Bezzle
Billy Hill wrote:
loyal wrote:

Stop giving the general image that all Muslims are sterotypical suicide bombers who kills if they were insulted.


I'm not. I'm giving the impression that all suicide bombers are Muslim. There's a difference. Wink


Actually before this whole pandemic belief that all suicide bombers are Muslim...before Americans learned of Muslim suicide bombers...the American knowledge of suicide bombers was enforced in movies when a character would strap a bomb to himself to get what he wants. So the idea of a suicide bomber has been around long before these radicals claiming Muslim beliefs started doing it. I'm sure there are better examples but that reply by bobby hill made was so idiotic that I just wanted to come with something right now.
Bikerman
Billy Hill wrote:
loyal wrote:

Stop giving the general image that all Muslims are sterotypical suicide bombers who kills if they were insulted.


I'm not. I'm giving the impression that all suicide bombers are Muslim. There's a difference. Wink

But it's not true regardless.
Suicide bombing has been used by a variety of peoples over the ages. In the modern world the most commonly association is with Islamic Militants but this is far from the whole picture. Suicide bombing, for example, is a commonly used tactic of the Tamil Tigers (who are a mix mostly of Hindu and Christians).
Bryan_Bezzle
Bikerman wrote:
Suicide bombing, for example, is a commonly used tactic of the Tamil Tigers (who are a mix mostly of Hindu and Christians).


A classic better example then mine.
Billy Hill
Bikerman wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
loyal wrote:

Stop giving the general image that all Muslims are sterotypical suicide bombers who kills if they were insulted.


I'm not. I'm giving the impression that all suicide bombers are Muslim. There's a difference. Wink

But it's not true regardless.
Suicide bombing has been used by a variety of peoples over the ages.


The only religion I've heard of that straps bombs to their chest (or their kid's chest) and sends them off to the mall or a school to blow themselves up in the name of Allah (or God) are, well, is, Islam.

If I'm wrong, and I may very well be, please show me. I'm researching it but not finding any numbers and any reference to religion.
Bryan_Bezzle
Billy Hill wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
loyal wrote:

Stop giving the general image that all Muslims are sterotypical suicide bombers who kills if they were insulted.


I'm not. I'm giving the impression that all suicide bombers are Muslim. There's a difference. Wink

But it's not true regardless.
Suicide bombing has been used by a variety of peoples over the ages.


The only religion I've heard of that straps bombs to their chest (or their kid's chest) and sends them off to the mall or a school to blow themselves up in the name of Allah (or God) are, well, is, Islam.

If I'm wrong, and I may very well be, please show me.



You are wrong. Islam does not teach this. It teaches that being a martyr will get you into heaven. Not that blowing up innocent people or even yourself for that matter will get you into heaven. The religion does not teach you to kill others. Those teachings are of radical men, using religion as an excuse to get what they want out of vulnerable people.
Bikerman
Billy Hill wrote:
I'm not. I'm giving the impression that all suicide bombers are Muslim. There's a difference. Wink

Not true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bomber
http://www.spur.asn.au/chronology_of_suicide_bomb_attacks_by_Tamil_Tigers_in_sri_Lanka.htm
Billy Hill
Bikerman wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
I'm not. I'm giving the impression that all suicide bombers are Muslim. There's a difference. Wink

Not true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bomber
http://www.spur.asn.au/chronology_of_suicide_bomb_attacks_by_Tamil_Tigers_in_sri_Lanka.htm


Not literally true, no. But:

wiki wrote:
the overwhelming majority of bombers have been motivated by the ideology of Islamist martyrdom, and that these attacks have been much more numerous. In just two years - 2004-2005 - there have been more suicide attacks, "roughly 600, than in Pape's entire sample.
Billy Hill
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:

Islam does not teach this.


That's a matter of interpretation.
Bryan_Bezzle
Billy Hill wrote:
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:

Islam does not teach this.


That's a matter of interpretation.


Then show me where I interpreted wrong. Show me the quote from the Quran where it says "Strap a bomb to yourself and kill innocent people and you will receive rewards"
Billy Hill
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:

Islam does not teach this.


That's a matter of interpretation.


Then show me where I interpreted wrong. Show me the quote from the Quran where it says "Strap a bomb to yourself and kill innocent people and you will receive rewards"


Do I have to find those exact words, or will a reasonable facsimile work? Wink

I'll post up a (long) list tomorrow. For now, it's Vodka time! Very Happy
Bryan_Bezzle
Billy Hill wrote:
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:

Islam does not teach this.


That's a matter of interpretation.


Then show me where I interpreted wrong. Show me the quote from the Quran where it says "Strap a bomb to yourself and kill innocent people and you will receive rewards"


Do I have to find those exact words, or will a reasonable facsimile work? Wink

I'll post up a (long) list tomorrow. For now, it's Vodka time! Very Happy



Yeah to hell with suicide bombers fill me up!
Bikerman
Billy Hill wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
I'm not. I'm giving the impression that all suicide bombers are Muslim. There's a difference. Wink

Not true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bomber
http://www.spur.asn.au/chronology_of_suicide_bomb_attacks_by_Tamil_Tigers_in_sri_Lanka.htm


Not literally true, no. But:

Well, not true at all - in other words a lie.
Quote:
wiki wrote:
the overwhelming majority of bombers have been motivated by the ideology of Islamist martyrdom, and that these attacks have been much more numerous. In just two years - 2004-2005 - there have been more suicide attacks, "roughly 600, than in Pape's entire sample.

Well why not provide the full linkage then we can check the context.
ibay
This discussion looks truly "Made In India", becoz this is what goes on in India: people belonging to one race or religion spreading lies about people of other races and religions Laughing

Indian! why don't you tell us what Indians think about Dalits, jews and Christians? It would make this topic more interesting if someone writes the truth. Embarassed
HalfBloodPrince
I feel sorry for BH Laughing just like children who think they should be allowed to vote.
Billy Hill
Bikerman wrote:

Well why not provide the full linkage then we can check the context.


psssst... it was YOUR link. Laughing
Billy Hill
ibay wrote:

Indian! why don't you tell us what Indians think about Dalits, jews and Christians? It would make this topic more interesting if someone writes the truth. Embarassed


Why is it that when someone want's to talk about Islam, Muslims feel the need to change the subject? Rolling Eyes
HalfBloodPrince
I think that what you do is worse than changing the subject. Not all suicide bombers are Muslims, tattoo it in your mind.

The suicide bombers the media wants you to hear about are Muslim, and you're a little pit-dog of theirs believing everything you hear.

Don't get what I mean? Imagine a man in New York, Christian, Jew, Hindu, whatever, robs a bank. Headline: MAN ROBS LOCAL BANK

Now, imagine a MUSLIM man robs a bank. Headline: MUSLIM MAN ROBS BANK - Connections with Al Qaeida not confirmed
Billy Hill
Billy Hill wrote:


Why is it that when someone want's to talk about Islam, Muslims feel the need to change the subject? Rolling Eyes


HalfBloodPrince wrote:
I think that what you do is worse than changing the subject.


Why is it that when someone want's to talk about Islam, Muslims feel the need to change the subject? Rolling Eyes
Billy Hill
HalfBloodPrince wrote:
Not all suicide bombers are Muslims, tattoo it in your mind.


It's hard when the only thing I hear about when someone blows themselves up in a mall or mosque is "Praise be to Allah" or "Al Quada" or "Radical Islam" or or or....

Seriously, I don't EVER hear about Christians, Hindus, Jews or anyone else doing it. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? (Yeah, I've been reading up on those tiger dudes, but I can't find a) where it says they're NOT Muslim and b) where they are strapping bombs to kids, or c) where they are bombing schools with the intent to kill children.)

I understand there is a difference between Islamic Muslims and Radical Islamic Muslims. I just wish I heard more Muslims speak out against the Radicals. Wink
Billy Hill
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:

Islam does not teach this.


That's a matter of interpretation.


Then show me where I interpreted wrong. Show me the quote from the Quran where it says "Strap a bomb to yourself and kill innocent people and you will receive rewards"


Do I have to find those exact words, or will a reasonable facsimile work? Wink

I'll post up a (long) list tomorrow. For now, it's Vodka time! Very Happy



Yeah to hell with suicide bombers fill me up!


Here, you get an extra shot, it's going to be a long read...

/pours

Quote:
Tabari IX:69 "Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us."
Tabari VIII:141 "The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: 'Kill! Kill! Kill!'"
Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive."
Ishaq:489 "Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing."
Qur'an 2:191 "And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter."
Qur'an 33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy - a fierce slaughter - murdered, a horrible murdering."
Bukhari:V4B52N270 "Allah's Messenger said, 'Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.' Maslama got up saying, 'Would you like me to kill him?' The Prophet proclaimed, 'Yes.' Maslama said, 'Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.' Muhammad said, 'You may do so.'"
Ishaq:368 "Ka'b's body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad's order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet."
Tabari VII:97
Ishaq:368 "We carried Ka'b's head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah's enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf's head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah's Cause. Our attack upon Allah's enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.'"
Tabari VII:97 "The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, 'Kill any Jew who falls under your power.'"
Ishaq:369 "Thereupon Mas'ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim's brother complained, saying, 'Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.' Mas'ud answered, 'By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.' Wherein the brother said, 'Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!' And he accepted Islam."
Bukhari:V1B1N6 "Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country."
Ishaq: 676 "'You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?' Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, 'Will no one rid me of this woman?' Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet's wishes. That very night he crept into the writer's home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, 'You have helped Allah and His Apostle.' Umayr said. 'She had five sons; should I feel guilty?' 'No,' the Prophet answered. 'Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'"
Bukhari:V1B11N626 "The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr. If they knew the reward they would come to (the mosque) even if they had to crawl. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.'"
Tabari VIII:178
Ishaq:550 "Muhammad ordered that certain men should be assassinated even if they were found behind the curtains of the Ka'aba. Among them was Abdallah bin Sa'd [the Qur'an's one and only scribe]. The reason that Allah's Messenger ordered that he should be slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down Qur'an Revelation. Then he apostatized [rejected Islam]."
Tabari VIII:179 "Abdallah bin Sa'd fled to Uthman, his brother, who after hiding him, finally surrendered him to the Prophet. Uthman asked for clemency. Muhammad did not respond, remaining silent for a long time. Muhammad explained, 'By Allah, I kept silent so that one of you might go up to him and cut off his head!' One of the Ansar said, 'Why didn't you give me a sign?' Allah's Apostle replied, 'A prophet does not kill by pointing.'"
Tabari VIII:179
Ishaq:550 "Among those who Muhammad ordered killed was Abdallah bin Khatal. The Messenger ordered him to be slain because while he was a Muslim, Muhammad had sent him to collect the zakat tax with an Ansar and a slave of his.... His girls used to sing a satire about Muhammad so the Prophet ordered that they should be killed along with Abdullah. He was killed by Sa'id and Abu Barzah. The two shared in his blood. One of the singing girls was killed quickly but the other fled. So Umar caused his horse to trample the one who fled, killing her."
Ishaq:551 "Another victim was Huwayrith. He used to insult Muhammad in Mecca. Huwayrith was put to death by Ali. The Messenger ordered Miqyas' assassination only because he had killed an Ansar who had killed his brother by mistake and then became a renegade by rejecting Islam."
Tabari VIII:180 "Also among those eliminated were Ikrimah bin Abu Jahl and Sarah, a slave of one of Abd Muttalib's sons. She taunted Muhammad while he was in Mecca."
Tabari VIII:181 "The Messenger ordered six men and four women to be assassinated. One of these women was Hind, who swore allegiance and became a Muslim."
Bukhari:V4B52N281 "They took Khubaib to Mecca after the battle of Badr. He had killed Harith, a Meccan nobleman. The Quraysh gathered to kill him in retribution.... Khubaib wanted to offer two Rakat (prayers). They allowed this and he said, 'O Allah, kill them all with no exception.' He then recited the poetic verse: 'I'm being martyred as a Muslim. I do not mind how I am killed in Allah's Cause. For my killing is for Allah's Sake. If Allah wishes, He will bless the amputated parts of my torn body.' Then the son of Harith [the man Khubaib had murdered] killed him."
Ishaq:597 "When the Apostle returned to Medina after his raid on Ta'if, word spread that he had killed some of the men who had satirized and insulted him. The poets who were left spread in all directions."
Tabari IX:76 "Malik has reported to me that you were the first from Himyar to embrace Islam and that you have killed infidels, so rejoice at your good fortune."
Tabari IX:121 "When it was feasible for me, I struck him with my sword and killed him. Then I departed, leaving his women to throw themselves at him. When I returned to the Prophet, he asked, 'Is your mission accomplished?' 'Yes. I have killed him.'"
Ishaq:308
Tabari VII:65 "When the Apostle was in Safra, Nadr was assassinated. When Muhammad reached Irq al-Zabyah he killed Uqbah. When the Prophet ordered him to be killed, Uqbah said, 'Who will look after my children, Muhammad?' "Hellfire,' the Apostle replied, and he was killed."
Tabari VII:85 "Muhammad killed many Quraysh polytheists at Badr."
Tabari VII:99 "In this year, the killing of Abu Rafi the Jew took place. The Messenger sent some Ansar under the command of Abd Allah and Abd Allah against the Jew. Abu Rafi used to injure and wrong the Prophet.... Abd Allah said to the others, 'Stay where you are, and I will go and ingratiate myself with the doorkeeper to gain entrance.'"
Tabari VII:100 "Every time I opened a door, I shut it behind me from the inside, saying to myself, 'If they become aware, they will not have time to stop me from killing him.' When I reached Rafi, he was in a dark room with his family. As I did not know where he was in the room, I said, 'O Abu Rafi.' When he replied, I proceeded toward the voice and gave him a blow with my sword. He shouted and I came back, pretending to be a helper. I said, 'O Abu,' changing the tone of my voice. He asked me, 'I don't know who came to strike me with his sword.' Then I drove my sword into his belly and pushed it forcibly till it touched the bone. I hit him again and covered him with wounds, but I could not kill him, so I thrust the point of my sword into his stomach until it came out through his back. At that, I knew that I had killed him [in front of his wife and children]. I came out, filled with puzzlement, and went towards a ladder in order to get down but I fell into a moonlit night and sprained my foot. I bound it with my turban and moved on. I came to my companions and said, 'By Allah, I will not leave till I hear the wailing of their women.' So, I did not move till I heard them crying for the Jewish merchant. I said, 'Deliverance! Allah has killed Abu Rafi.' I got up, feeling no ailment, and proceeded till we came upon the Prophet and informed him."
Tabari VII:101 "The Khazraj asked the Prophet for permission to kill Sallam Huqayq, who was in Khaybar. He granted this."
Ishaq:482 "One of the favors which Allah conferred upon his Prophet was that these two tribes of the Ansar, the Aws and the Khazraj, used to vie with one another like stallions to carry out the will of Muhammad. The Aws did not do anything which benefited him without the Khazraj saying, 'By Allah they will not gain superiority over us in Islam in the eyes of the Messenger by doing this.' And they would not cease until they had done something similar. Thus when the Aws killed Ka'b Ashraf on account of his hostility to Muhammad, the Khazraj conferred to find a man comparable to Ka'b in hostility and called to mind Sallam Huqayq in Khaybar. They asked the Prophet for permission to kill him, and it was granted."
Tabari VII:101
Ishaq:483 "Sallam's wife came out and we told her that we were Arabs in search of supplies. When we entered, we bolted the door on her so she gave a shout to warn him of our presence. We rushed upon him with our swords as he lay in his bed. He took his pillow and tried to fend us off. Abd Allah thrust his sword into his stomach and transfixed him while he was shouting, 'Enough! Enough!' At once we went out but Abd Allah had bad eyesight, and he fell off the stairway, bruising his leg or arm. 'How shall we know that the enemy of Allah is dead?' one of us asked. 'I will go and look,' one replied. He set off and mingled with the people. He said, 'I found him with the men of the Jews, and with his wife, who had a lamp in her hand, peering into his face. She said, 'By the God of the Jews, he is dead.' I never heard any more pleasing words than these. We went to the Messenger of Allah and told him that we had killed the enemy of Allah. We disagreed in his presence about the killing of Sallam, each of us claiming to have done it. The Prophet said, 'Bring me your swords.' We did and he looked at them. He said, 'This sword of Abd Allah killed him. I can see the marks left by bones on it.'"
Ishaq:483 "Allah, what a fine band you have, one willing to kill Sallam and Ashraf! We went with sharp swords, like fighting lions. We came upon their homes and made them drink death with our swift-slaying swords. Looking for the victory of our Prophet's religion, we ignored every risk."
Tabari VII:112
Ishaq:372 "When a blind Jew became aware of the presence of the Messenger and the Muslims he rose and threw dust in their faces, saying, 'Even if you are a prophet, I will not allow you into my garden!' I was told that he took a handful of dirt and said, 'If only I knew that I would not hit anyone else, Muhammad, I would throw it in your face.' Sa'd rushed in and hit him on the head with his bow and split the Jew's head open."
Ishaq:403 "Allah killed twenty-two polytheists at Uhud."
Tabari VII:147 "Amr was sent by Muhammad to kill Abu Sufyan [the Quraysh leader and merchant]. The Prophet said, 'Go to Abu Sufyan and kill him.' ...When I entered Mecca I had a dagger ready to slay anybody who laid hold of me. My Ansar companion asked, 'Should we start by circumambulating the Ka'aba seven times and praying two rak'ahs?' I said, 'I know the Meccans better than you do.' But he kept pestering me until in the end we went to the Ka'aba, circumambulated it seven times, and prayed."
Tabari VII:148 "One of the Meccans recognized me and shouted, 'That is Amr!' They rushed after us, saying, 'By Allah, Amr has not come here for any good purpose! He has come for some evil reason.' Amr had been a cutthroat and a desperado before accepting Islam."
Tabari VII:148 "Amr said, 'Let's wait here until the cry has died down. They are sure to hunt for us tonight and tomorrow. I was still in the cave when Uthman bin Malik came riding proudly on his horse. He reached the entrance to our cave and I said to my Ansar companion, 'If he sees us, he will tell everyone in Mecca.' So I went out and stabbed him with my dagger. He gave a shout and the Meccans came to him while I went back to my hiding place. Finding him at the point of death, they said, 'By Allah we knew that Amr came for no good purpose.' The death of their companion impeded their search for us, for they carried him away."
Tabari VII:149 "I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, 'Who's there?' I said [lied], 'I'm a Banu Bakr.' 'So am I.' Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: 'I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.' I said, 'You will soon see!' Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad."
Tabari VII:150 "I had tied my prisoner's thumbs together with my bowstring. The Messenger of Allah looked at him and laughed so that his back teeth could be seen. Then he questioned me and I told him what had happened. 'Well done!' he said, and prayed for me to be blessed."
Ishaq:434 "Amr and an Ansari waited until they were asleep. Then Amr killed them, thinking that he had taken vengeance for the Muslims who had been slain. When he came to the Messenger, he told him what had happened. The Prophet said, 'You have killed men for whom I shall have to pay blood-money.'"
Tabari VIII:22 "Hassan was with the women and children. A Jew passed by and began to walk around his settlement. There was no one to protect them while the Apostle and his Companions were at the Meccans' throats. So I said: 'Hassan, this Jew is walking around. I fear he will point out our weakness while the Muslims are too busy to attend to us. So go down to him and kill him."
Tabari VIII:22
Ishaq:458 "'Allah forgive you, daughter of Abd al-Muttalib,' Hassan said. 'You know that I am not the man to do it.' When he said that to me I saw that nothing could be expected from him. I girded myself, took a club, and, having gone down from the fortress to the man, I struck him with the club until I killed him. When I had finished with him, I returned to the fortress and said, 'Hassan, go down to him and strip him - only his being a man kept me from taking his clothes.' Hassan replied, 'I have no need for his spoils.'"
Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."
Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."
Tabari VIII:90 "Abu Basir went out with his companions. When they stopped to rest he asked one of them, 'Is this sword of yours sharp?' 'Yes,' he replied. 'May I look at it?' Basir asked. 'If you wish.' Basir unsheathed the sword, attacked the man, and killed him. The other Muslim ran back to the Messenger, saying, 'Your Companion has killed my friend.' While the man was still there, Abu Basir appeared girded with the sword. He halted before Muhammad and said, 'Messenger, your obligation has been discharged.'"
HalfBloodPrince
Tabari is a forged book of Jihad/Hadith.

Quote:


THE FORGED (FABRICATED) HADITHS



1. History of Fabrication:

a. During Benu Umayya's Rule.

b. During Benu Abbas' Rule, in particular with the advent of the schools of thought in Islam.

2. By the year 200 H.: Total of 600,000 Hadiths were in existence, out of which 408,324 Hadith were fabricated Hadiths by 620 forgerers2.

3. Most Notorious Forgerers: Ibn Jundub, Abu Bukhtari, Ibn Basheer, Abdullah Al-Ansaari, Al-Sindi. Ibn Au'jaa professed before he was hanged that he alone had forged 4,000 Hadiths3.

4. Reason to Fabricate:

a. Financial incentive by the Khalifas, for example Mu'awiya awarded Ibn Jundub and others hundreds of thousands of dinars for coming forth with Hadiths that suited him4.

b. As a means of self-promotion in the government.

c. In a drive to enhance a particular school of thought.

d. Fanaticism for a school of thought at the expense of others5.

5. Al-Qassassoon (The story-tellers): Their operation and major role in the public.
loyal
Billy Hill wrote:

Tabari IX:69 "Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us."
Tabari VIII:141 "The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: 'Kill! Kill! Kill!'"
Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive."
Ishaq:489 "Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing."


When you were asked for verses in the Qur'an promoting violence, what part did you not understand? These are not from the Qur'an.

The sources are also impossible to trace. What the world is "IX:69" supposed to mean? These are not real references to the sources. Also, there is no Arabic so i cannot check no mistranslations have occurred.

The source reference is even worse on the hadiths. Who the world can tell me what "V5B59N512" is supposed to mean?
How am i supposed to know you haven't pasted this from a site which invented this?

These are incomplete quotes. I want context. Where is the full chapter or at least a few paragraphs?

Also, why are you quoting from historians?
If you want to say that Islam promotes violence, why don't you quote from the Qur'an, which is believed to be God's words and instructions to mankind?

Where in the Qur'an, does it say "Go kill women and children, blow yourselves up, murder the non-muslims"? Nowhere.

Also, notice that the voice of the narrative seems to be a group of believers. Not the prophet himself, or Islam. So, what does it matter if some believers did wrong? There are hypocrites following every religion. The Qur'an itself talks about hypocrites at the time of the prophet.

Quote:

Qur'an 2:191 "And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter."


It helps to know about context and to have a clear translation. It also helps to quote the surrounding verses, not quote one out of context.

[2:190]: And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.
[2:191]: And kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; IF they fight you then kill them, thus is the reward of the disbelievers.

The Meccans stole Muslims property and drove the Muslims out of their homes. ...and turn them out from where they have turned you out. 2: 191
The Muslims where being heavily oppressed, and the Muslims were given permission to fight back: 'oppression is worse than murder'.

Next time, try doing some study into what you're pasting.
Bikerman
Billy Hill wrote:
Bikerman wrote:

Well why not provide the full linkage then we can check the context.


psssst... it was YOUR link. Laughing

Ahh...OK, well then we should examine the quote in context:
Quote:
Observers believe suicide attacks have become popular because of their effectiveness in killing, but the motivation of recent attack campaigns is a matter of some controversy. One scholar, Robert Pape, attributes over 90% of attacks prior to the Iraq Civil War to the same strategic goal: the withdrawal of the occupying forces from a disputed territory; while another, Scott Atran, argues that since then the overwhelming majority of bombers have been motivated by the ideology of Islamist martyrdom, and that these attacks have been much more numerous. In just two years - 2004-2005 - there have been more suicide attacks, "roughly 600, than in Pape's entire sample."

The article is clearly saying (I believe correctly) that there is some dispute about the strategic goal and motivation of suicide bombers.
This ties-in with a point I have made before - there seems to be an over-emphasis on tactics and not enough on results. Suicide bombing is a tactic. Bombing civilian targets (or military targets where there are known to be large numbers of civilians present) from 30,000 ft is a tactic. The result in both cases is often the death of innocent civilians. Suicide bombing is a particularly effective tactic of the militarily weak. Bombing civilian targets from 30,000 ft is a tactic which works for the militarily strong. There is, to my mind, no moral or ethical difference between the two - both are unjustifiable.
Bryan_Bezzle
Quote:
It helps to know about context and to have a clear translation. It also helps to quote the surrounding verses, not quote one out of context.

[2:190]: And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.
[2:191]: And kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; IF they fight you then kill them, thus is the reward of the disbelievers.

The Meccans stole Muslims property and drove the Muslims out of their homes. ...and turn them out from where they have turned you out. 2: 191
The Muslims where being heavily oppressed, and the Muslims were given permission to fight back: 'oppression is worse than murder'.

Next time, try doing some study into what you're pasting.


Ok so you have found verses of the Quran that state kill the people whom persecute and do not kill them unless they fight you. The Christian Bible says to get rid of the adulterers. That is similar to most religions. They are often taken out of context. I still do not see where it says strap bombs to yourselves and blow up innocents. Can you repost that one for me?
ThePolemistis
Billy Hill wrote:

Tabari IX:69 "Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us."
Tabari VIII:141 "The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: 'Kill! Kill! Kill!'"
Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive."
Ishaq:489 "Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing."
BLAH BLAH BLAH


Heyy,,, Billy boy,,, y not quote some crap out of the Protocols of the elders of Zion too? Maybe that has some credibility also?
ibay
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:

Ok so you have found verses of the Quran that state kill the people whom persecute and do not kill them unless they fight you. The Christian Bible says to get rid of the adulterers. That is similar to most religions. They are often taken out of context. I still do not see where it says strap bombs to yourselves and blow up innocents. Can you repost that one for me?


These brainwashed stupids don't even know that bombs were not invented at the time Quran was written and hence there was no concept of suicide attacks. Now think how stupid is the person who says Islam justifies suicide bombings.
Bryan_Bezzle
ibay wrote:
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:

Ok so you have found verses of the Quran that state kill the people whom persecute and do not kill them unless they fight you. The Christian Bible says to get rid of the adulterers. That is similar to most religions. They are often taken out of context. I still do not see where it says strap bombs to yourselves and blow up innocents. Can you repost that one for me?


These brainwashed stupids don't even know that bombs were not invented at the time Quran was written and hence there was no concept of suicide attacks. Now think how stupid is the person who says Islam justifies suicide bombings.



Bobby hill is just very against Muslims himself, therefore he says things like this to justify his feeling of hatred toward them. The fact is, you cannot judge any man lest you are free of sin yourself. You cannot judge a group of people by one mans actions or thoughts. You cannot take good teachings out of context and apply them towards evil concepts and claim they are of the original. Human is human no matter what race/religion/creed/or any other difference man tries to beset upon humanity. We are our own worst enemy and the worst part about that is we have external enemies as well. We need to learn to live with ourselves before we tell another man how he should live.
ibay
Bryan_Bezzle wrote:

Bobby hill is just very against Muslims himself, therefore he says things like this to justify his feeling of hatred toward them. The fact is, you cannot judge any man lest you are free of sin yourself. You cannot judge a group of people by one mans actions or thoughts. You cannot take good teachings out of context and apply them towards evil concepts and claim they are of the original. Human is human no matter what race/religion/creed/or any other difference man tries to beset upon humanity. We are our own worst enemy and the worst part about that is we have external enemies as well. We need to learn to live with ourselves before we tell another man how he should live.



I agree
salman_500
being a Muslim, i say that most of the mentioned are to be performed, but im not sure if some may lead to the extremes ...

You see in Islam the use of toilet makes you impure... and one should not haste towards impurity .. see why we enter the toilet with the left foot.. to show that we only do it coz its needed.. not for fun :p

also one should not talk because when a Muslim enters a toilet, Angels turn away to keep ur privacy.. but if you talk, they have to turn bak to write down your accounts... so your actually revealing yourself to the Angels... Confused

And you should sit so as to make sure your clothes do not catch any of the impurity ... Its actually for ones betterment.. u know there is a need to squat? science proves that squating makes the excretion easy and less painfull.. lol :p i think when your suffering from constipation ! i may be wrong about this.. dont remember where i read it ...

well its all for your betterment ! Very Happy
furtasacra
sefilim wrote:
I am muslim.But I don't perform any rule to go to toilet Very Happy


I'm not muslim, but I have friends who are... uh. I assume they just go like everybody else. At my house, there is always soap and towels for hand washing, but that's not religion, that's just sanitation. Okay, so pleasantly scented soap and lotion is almost a sacrament to me, but washing your hands after you go is just a given.
videoguy
"being a Muslim, i say that most of the mentioned are to be performed, but im not sure if some may lead to the extremes ...

You see in Islam the use of toilet makes you impure... and one should not haste towards impurity .. see why we enter the toilet with the left foot.. to show that we only do it coz its needed.. not for fun :p

also one should not talk because when a Muslim enters a toilet, Angels turn away to keep ur privacy.. but if you talk, they have to turn bak to write down your accounts... so your actually revealing yourself to the Angels... Confused

And you should sit so as to make sure your clothes do not catch any of the impurity ... Its actually for ones betterment.. u know there is a need to squat? science proves that squating makes the excretion easy and less painfull.. lol :p i think when your suffering from constipation ! i may be wrong about this.. dont remember where i read it ...

well its all for your betterment "

how does using the toilet make you unpure?

and how does putting your foot in it stop this impurity?
HalfBloodPrince
You realize you can use [quote] tags...I thought you were repeating him/her for a second.
h8moslime
So, I happened to find this whole website by accident. Now, as an outside observer, I can tell you that this discussion has progressed from how to take a dump to:

1) Dragging Jews and Christians into your conversation (typical obsessed moslems).
2) Attempting to deflect the discussion into typical moslem hatred of Jews (ThePolemistis). This is a typical tactic...deflecting any topic into blaming Jews for all your problems, issues, economics, criticisms...WTF? There are 1000 of you per 1 Jew. Deal with it!!! You're the problem.
3) Diverting the discussion into moslems claiming that their religion is so wonderfully full of peace while other posters are politely showing that moslems are the typical fanatic suicide terrorists of the world. Fact is, yes, moslems are, and they don't do anything in their community to stop their fanaticism. YOU MOSLEMS NEED A CIVIL WAR TO PROGRESS... Oh wait, you did have a bunch lately, and you all regressed further into a savage social environment (sharia, etc., and "arab spring," which is actually "arab regression")

Face the fact that your religion is more than just a religion. It's a force that propels you stronger than any law of any land (as your religion states, and yes, I can quote that as based on the FBI's analysis of your religion), which means that you only accept your religion above and beyond the law of any land. This is the difference between your religion and every other religion of the world. We know how to respect our neighbors and have tolerance. Your lands are intolerant as is proven daily by your terrorism.

Quoting your quran doesn't mean anything....living in a civilized manner does, which you don't!!
nepalstar
MadeinIndia wrote:
Rules of going to toilet in Islam:
Quote:

* Say before entering the toilet: In the name of Allah, O Allah! I seek refuge with You from all offensive and wicked things (Al-Bukhaaree)
* One should enter the toilet with the left foot and leave with the right foot.
* It is not permissible to enter the toilet whilst carrying or wearing anything bearing the name of Allah, such as the Quran, or any book with the name of Allah in it, or jewelry such as bracelets or necklaces engraved with the name of Allah.
* One should remain silent whilst on the toilet. Talking, answering greetings or greeting others is forbidden.[2]
* One should not face nor turn your back on Al-Qiblah whilst relieving yourself.[3]
* One should be out of sight of people when going to the toilet
* It is considered forbidden to relieve oneself whilst standing up, lying down or if you are completely nude.[citation needed]
* One should avoid going to the toilet anywhere where people may take rest or gather for any purpose.
* Do not raise clothes until you get close to the ground and do not uncover the body any more than is needed.
* One should sit on the feet (e.g. squat) keeping thighs wide apart with the stress on the left foot.
* Do not look to the private parts of the body nor the waste matter passed from the body.
* Do not sit more than needed.
* Do not spit, blow nose, look hither and thither, touch the body unnecessarily nor look towards the sky but relieve oneself with the eyes downcast in modesty. [citation needed]
* After relieving oneself it is essential to perform Istinjaa (washing with water) of the anus and/or genitals with the left hand and water. The precise mode of performing Istinjaa has also been defined by religious leaders: "At the beginning of Istinja, it is preferable to use toilet paper three times. If Istinjaa is being done on a hot day, then the person should start from the front to the back and then from the back to the front and the third time from the front to the back. If Istinjaa is being done on a cold day, then he should begin from the back to the front. After wiping, he should wash his hand first and then he should cleanse himself with two fingers and three fingers if necessary together with ‘pouring’ water. When using the two fingers, one should keep the middle finger in front and the ring and index finger behind it. After beginning with the fingers in this position, he should bring the ring finger forward and rub with the middle finger and ring finger. Thereafter, he will wipe with the index finger, if necessary. He should continue until all the impurity and smell is removed. The left over water after Istinjaa is paak only if there is no impurity in it." (Mufti Ebrahim Desai) And further: "To wash the orifice with water, even though no filth is stuck to it after relieving oneself, is desirable. If the filth is sticking to it (less than a Dirham or equal to it) then the use of water is 'Sunnah' (optional) and in the case the filth stuck to the orifice is more than a Dirham then its washing with the water is 'Fard'. (obligatory)" Islamic Academy
* Other than toilet paper, water and the left hand Istinjaa can be performed with earth, grit, stones and worn-out cloths provided they are all clean. It is forbidden to perform Istinyaa with bone, any edible item, dry dung, baked brick, potsherd, coal, fodder, writing paper and anything which has even a small value.
* After this process the hands should also be washed.
* When leaving the toilet one should also say a prayer, "Praise be to Allah who relieved me of the filth and gave me relief."[4]

gh0stface wrote:
Please use the quote tags when copying from another source.

Source: Wikipedia.org


Oh! they have rules for going even in Toilet...?? I don't know about that...! amazing...! but no comment from my side...!
Hello_World
I wish people would remain silent in the toilet I hate it in a public toilet and people talk to me.

I know some of this is true because when I lived with some Muslim boys they kept water in the toilet for purposes of which they refused to tell me.

Also some taxi drivers were really rude when I tried to give them change with my left hand and finally one of them told me why they don't like it.
nickfyoung
Bikerman wrote:
Billy Hill wrote:
loyal wrote:

Stop giving the general image that all Muslims are sterotypical suicide bombers who kills if they were insulted.


I'm not. I'm giving the impression that all suicide bombers are Muslim. There's a difference. Wink

But it's not true regardless.
Suicide bombing has been used by a variety of peoples over the ages. In the modern world the most commonly association is with Islamic Militants but this is far from the whole picture. Suicide bombing, for example, is a commonly used tactic of the Tamil Tigers (who are a mix mostly of Hindu and Christians).



Were not the Japanese kamikaze pilots the same.
nickfyoung
Reading all the comments sort of reminds me of some of the Old Testament stuff. Christians have moved on from that period while it appears Muslims have not.
Why don't they up date their religion to equate with modern times. They would find themselves less hated and criticized and better understood.

Any group of people who go about with beards and face coverings and long dress in this day and age is just asking to be ridiculed.
ekonomska
I really do not know why the problem is so great? Who want to pay attention it will.
Bikerman
nickfyoung wrote:
Reading all the comments sort of reminds me of some of the Old Testament stuff. Christians have moved on from that period while it appears Muslims have not.
Why don't they up date their religion to equate with modern times. They would find themselves less hated and criticized and better understood.

ROFLMAO. This from someone who believes much of the more ridiculous parts of the OT are factual (Genesis for example) - Oh! the irony....Oh! the self-delusion....Oh! the hypocrisy.....
nickfyoung
We had a news story the other night about genital mutilation of Muslim girls. While it is illegal here in Australia it is apparently still happening.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what it is and why it is.
Bikerman
It happens - probably in similar numbers to the number of African children killed or outcast as 'witches' by Christian communities and sanctioned/encouraged by Christian clergy.
nickfyoung
Bikerman wrote:
It happens - probably in similar numbers to the number of African children killed or outcast as 'witches' by Christian communities and sanctioned/encouraged by Christian clergy.



Yes but I was just wondering what is the purpose of it, some religious significance or other.

To the above, there are Christians and then there are Christians.
Bikerman
There are muslims and there are muslims - if you are happy using a fallacy for christians, then the same fallacy applies to all other groups.

It happens for the same basic reason as it happened previously in Christianity. Sex is made into something 'dirty' and 'sinful' by Judeo-Christianity - Islam, being a reworking of the former also contains the same general attitude to sex. Removing the clitoris was seen as a way to curb the carnal thoughts and emotions that women experience and thus help them to avoid sin.
To be fair I will point out that it did occur BEFORE Christianity, and even probably before Judaism, but it is always associated with religion.
nickfyoung
Bikerman wrote:
There are muslims and there are muslims - if you are happy using a fallacy for christians, then the same fallacy applies to all other groups.

It happens for the same basic reason as it happened previously in Christianity. Sex is made into something 'dirty' and 'sinful' by Judeo-Christianity - Islam, being a reworking of the former also contains the same general attitude to sex. Removing the clitoris was seen as a way to curb the carnal thoughts and emotions that women experience and thus help them to avoid sin.


Remember the book I was telling you about before written by the wife/assistant pastor of the largest church in Australia, "Kingdom Women Have Better Sex". Sounds like Christianity, or some of it, has been liberated.

The Old Testament book, Song of Solomon, is now used as sex education for per-martial counseling in many churches.

Removing parts of the body would seem to be an altering of the creation of God. You are saying it was seen as a way to curb carnal thoughts but if it is still happening it must still be seen that way.
Bikerman
nickfyoung wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
There are muslims and there are muslims - if you are happy using a fallacy for christians, then the same fallacy applies to all other groups.

It happens for the same basic reason as it happened previously in Christianity. Sex is made into something 'dirty' and 'sinful' by Judeo-Christianity - Islam, being a reworking of the former also contains the same general attitude to sex. Removing the clitoris was seen as a way to curb the carnal thoughts and emotions that women experience and thus help them to avoid sin.


Remember the book I was telling you about before written by the wife/assistant pastor of the largest church in Australia, "Kingdom Women Have Better Sex". Sounds like Christianity, or some of it, has been liberated.
Really, so the churches (christian) don't preach that sex outside marriage is sinful? They don't teach that masturbation is a sin? I think they do, and the publication of a book which claims that a specific, sanctioned, group of people enjoy sex doesn't even address the issue, let alone answer it.
Quote:
The Old Testament book, Song of Solomon, is now used as sex education for per-martial counseling in many churches.
Which shows why you should not rely on ANY church for sex education. Relying on 2000+ yr old texts for sex education is insane. They date to before basic understandings of the world such as germ theory, which are pretty damn important.
Quote:
Removing parts of the body would seem to be an altering of the creation of God. You are saying it was seen as a way to curb carnal thoughts but if it is still happening it must still be seen that way.
It is practiced in Judaism and was practiced in the early Christian Church. In fact one of the arguments that Paul gets into is about whether Christians can 'join' without being circumcised.
nickfyoung
Bikerman wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
There are muslims and there are muslims - if you are happy using a fallacy for christians, then the same fallacy applies to all other groups.

It happens for the same basic reason as it happened previously in Christianity. Sex is made into something 'dirty' and 'sinful' by Judeo-Christianity - Islam, being a reworking of the former also contains the same general attitude to sex. Removing the clitoris was seen as a way to curb the carnal thoughts and emotions that women experience and thus help them to avoid sin.


Remember the book I was telling you about before written by the wife/assistant pastor of the largest church in Australia, "Kingdom Women Have Better Sex". Sounds like Christianity, or some of it, has been liberated.
Really, so the churches (christian) don't preach that sex outside marriage is sinful? They don't teach that masturbation is a sin? I think they do, and the publication of a book which claims that a specific, sanctioned, group of people enjoy sex doesn't even address the issue, let alone answer it.
Quote:
The Old Testament book, Song of Solomon, is now used as sex education for per-martial counseling in many churches.
Which shows why you should not rely on ANY church for sex education. Relying on 2000+ yr old texts for sex education is insane. They date to before basic understandings of the world such as germ theory, which are pretty damn important.
Quote:
Removing parts of the body would seem to be an altering of the creation of God. You are saying it was seen as a way to curb carnal thoughts but if it is still happening it must still be seen that way.
It is practiced in Judaism and was practiced in the early Christian Church. In fact one of the arguments that Paul gets into is about whether Christians can 'join' without being circumcised.



I didn't read the book but I think what it was alluding to was the intimate part of a relationship in marriage is enhanced when both parties are baptized in the Spirit. It brings a certain liberation and freedom to the bedroom.
I think the Old Testament teaching on sex education is more focused on the relationship aspects. If God is love then to understand that is to enable you to better love your partner.

I think you will have to agree that male circumcision is not quite in the same league as female genital mutilation. There are actually hygiene benefits .
Bikerman
As I said, the teachings - whatever their focus - would be a terrible curriculum for any sex education course.
I agree that male circumcision is not as barbaric or ultimately damaging as female circumcision but I don't see what that has to do with it, since you were contending that christians would find any mutilation wrong. Clearly that is simply incorrect.
nickfyoung
Bikerman wrote:
As I said, the teachings - whatever their focus - would be a terrible curriculum for any sex education course.
I agree that male circumcision is not as barbaric or ultimately damaging as female circumcision but I don't see what that has to do with it, since you were contending that christians would find any mutilation wrong. Clearly that is simply incorrect.



Quote:
since you were contending that christians would find any mutilation wrong.



You seem to be putting words in my mouth again. I can't remember having said anything like that.

I asked the question, the purpose. You brought up Christians and made the link.
Bikerman
Well, you are asking from a particular perspective and said
Quote:
Removing parts of the body would seem to be an altering of the creation of God.
which can only BE from a christian POV since it would make no sense in the general context of 'humans'.
nickfyoung
Bikerman wrote:
Well, you are asking from a particular perspective and said
Quote:
Removing parts of the body would seem to be an altering of the creation of God.
which can only BE from a christian POV since it would make no sense in the general context of 'humans'.



Not necessarily. I was actually referring to the Muslim faith and their God as they are the ones doing it and the point that they must still see it as relevant because they still do it.
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