Well I've finally learned off HTML for web development and have to say I enjoyed doing so.
However I want to know what you would recommend that I should learn next?
And do I realistacly need an image manipulator (?) programme like Photoshop or GIMP to get a good page design?
Cheers.
You should learn php and JavaScript.
And yes, for good page design, you really do need Photoshop, or GIMP.
It improves your page design a lot, allowing you to do simple things like gradients on your page, and things like that can improve the look a hundredfold.
If you want to work today on the future of web, have a look to semantic web...
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
You should learn php and JavaScript.
And yes, for good page design, you really do need Photoshop, or GIMP.
It improves your page design a lot, allowing you to do simple things like gradients on your page, and things like that can improve the look a hundredfold. |
I agree, but I think you should use opensource programs, like GIMP and stuff like that.... because? (S)he has some sort of obligation?
I would recommend learning CSS as well.
And once you're done with it, go ahead with PHP !
CSS and PHP (Or ASP, just what you prefer), and of course you should learn to work with an image manipulation tool. I recommend that you learn working with at least one vector graphics program (Inkscape is a good free one, I don't know any paid programs), and some good bitmap programs. If you want to go free (price = 0) then I recommend GIMP and Paint.NET. If you can afford it I recommend Photoshop. Loads of programs in the Adobe CS3 Suite can be handy for web design, but it is pricey.
Later on you'll also want to learn SQL and Javascript. If you're going to make "heavy" pages I also recommend learning AJAX (Which really is just some Javascript and some PHP/ASP).
Also you should learn some stuff about web design, several rules:
- Don't use pixel sizes, unless there's nothing you can do about it. Text size should NEVER be in pixels. Either use pt of %
- Don't use a repeating background when the image is not repeating. The background should be "seamless" and fit in well with the rest. An light colour background or very dark background is always good. NEVER use colours like red, cyan, or blue.
- Text is easiest to read when there is a reasonable space between each line. Too much is not good, too little is not good.
- NEVER use a monospaced font, except for in code listings
- Text is easiest to read when the columns are 60--70 characters wide. Please be kind to those who have 21" widescreens, don't do column width in percents. Use pixels.
- Use short sentences and short paragraphs.
- If your page takes long to load you did something wrong. Try using AJAX or decrease your image size.
- Don't use Javascript to create moving things and flashy banners etcetera.
I could go on like this forever, but most of the time you can make great pages by just using common sence. I don't mean to be advertising, but www.w3schools.com is a great place to start learning about web design techniques including CSS, PHP, SQL, Javascript, AJAX and so on.
Good luck. | Arno v. Lumig wrote: |
- Don't use pixel sizes, unless there's nothing you can do about it. Text size should NEVER be in pixels. Either use pt of % |
I think em's are actually somewhat better. When you size in em and a user increases the font size, your page will resize to accommodate it. Of course % can be better and it all depends on the situation but I just thought I would add that. | Daire wrote: |
However I want to know what you would recommend that I should learn next?
And do I realistacly need an image manipulator (?) programme like Photoshop or GIMP to get a good page design?
|
Well, I think you should learn CSS next. Don't even think about using tables for layout, CSS is a much cleaner and, in the long run, easier option. It is always good to learn the CSS ropes before starting off with serious programming, so that you won't have to come back and learn it later on - the mindset-shift required would be rather uncomfortable (i've been there). When you're okay with CSS, learn JS - things like form validation, basic calculations, window generation, the lot. You should be able to make a nice-looking, interactive site just with these.
As soon as you're in this stage, you'll start noticing the lack of a server side language, thinking of all the wonderful things you could do if only you could do some processing before you showed the page to visitors... then is the time to look at PHP or JSP. Soon after you'd notice that you'd be well off with some secure data storage, and you could then take up MySQL.
And yes - I think you should get Photoshop, or atleast GIMP, if you're thinking of serious website design.
These are my opinions, but from what I see in the posts in Frihost, I may be the newbiest newbie out here....Okay, all the best to you.The order should be something like
xHTML -> CSS -> Javascript/AJAX -> PHP
Then all you have in your hand will be a killer website 
and dont forget to throw in some graphic design 
javascript, cgi, CSS...if you feel suicidal, try PHP
CSS and Image Manipulation. Take a look at the CSS Zen Garden if you need ideas and examples! | Arnie wrote: |
| ... because? (S)he has some sort of obligation? |
No, because we should support open-source software. And one of the best ways to do so is using it and spreading the word about it So you are implying an obligation there, to which I object. But since that's not the topic here I won't elaborate on that...
from my side the opinion shall be start working on the folloowing technologies simultanously:
1. CSS
2. PHP
3. Javascript overview
4 Mysql to be used with php
Now the best way to learn them is involve yourself into some live project.... lets say choose an idea ... define its goals and according to the needs of your different objectives start using the above given technologies.... there live implimentation shall make you a good web designer... best of luck and if you want some ideas for website then visit the following website: designstop.com
| jabapyth wrote: |
| javascript, cgi, CSS...if you feel suicidal, try PHP |
PHP really isn't that hard...assuming you have some background in programming...and you use a good tutorial that doesn't teach any outdated/bad habits (like register global related problems)PHP and Javascript is a good combination if you want to move on from HTML to make powerful websites imho.
| Daire wrote: |
Well I've finally learned off HTML for web development and have to say I enjoyed doing so.
However I want to know what you would recommend that I should learn next?
And do I realistacly need an image manipulator (?) programme like Photoshop or GIMP to get a good page design?
Cheers. |
Photoshop is quite good to get a grasp of, but I would recommend that you go ahead and learn CSS, javascript, and then finally PHP & MySQL, if you have a need for it at least | Quote: |
Well I've finally learned off HTML for web development and have to say I enjoyed doing so.
However I want to know what you would recommend that I should learn next?
And do I realistacly need an image manipulator (?) programme like Photoshop or GIMP to get a good page design?
Cheers. |
Learning CSS sounds like a good idea. Also, you could learn about deprecated HTML, that stuff if you haven't. Then moving onto JavaScript, or maybe VBScript is a good idea. Once you have that, you should then tackle PHP, and MySQL. Soon after that, maybe even Ajax if you want. Also, don't forget to practice. To your question:
Have fun, make a page publish it and show the world what you learned.
i'll do a dumb thing and answer you with anorthe question:
What you like the most, making "astonishing beautifull layout that look like a dali painting" or "making state of the art, perfect running ,ultra usefull scripts"?
i ask you this because of your focus, i mean there ares some basic stuff like html , css and php (or other server side language) , but if you masterise one of them first (focusing in this one) you'll be more secure about your own skills....
im not saying that you shouldn't learn all them, just that you need to switch one to start =)
Try:
CSS
Ruby on Rails (like PHP but better)
GIMP or Photoshop
Javascript for AJAX (Optional)
Don't learn Javascript before learning a server-side language, and don't skip learning CSS and go straight to the image manipulation or you will make bad websites.
i would not suggest specific languages, and scriptings languages...
but after HTML CSS is a must then you need a Client Side scripting > Javascript is the most widely used and the best. For Server Side, it basically depends on you... if you are familiar with C programming, I would suggest PHP. If not then ASP.
Be warned that ASP is not supported on Linux and not at all on Frihost 
| Quote: |
| but after HTML CSS is a must then you need a Client Side scripting > Javascript is the most widely used and the best. |
You are a) suggesting a specific language and b) suggesting that someone learn an inferior and less-powerful technology first that is likely to pervert the quality of every website designed afterwards. These days learning a client-side language is optional --- some of the best website (Google etc.) use basically none.I think for me that you should directly go to php, if you want to improve your websites to dynamic sites!
| Star Wars Fanatic wrote: |
You should learn php and JavaScript.
And yes, for good page design, you really do need Photoshop, or GIMP.
It improves your page design a lot, allowing you to do simple things like gradients on your page, and things like that can improve the look a hundredfold. |
IMHO first of all, the second thing you should learn is XHTML; after that, CSS and JavaScript.
After you've learned all of these, you can start with PHP.
As to the graphics... GIMP or PhotoShop are a must... Some folks say they use other programs like FireWorks and Illustrator. Indeed these can be helpful, but not without the first two...
