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We need a political forum!





polly-gone
I have noticed many, many, many different politcal-type dicussing that are occuring in the General Chat forum. The General Chat forum is designed for topics that don't fit anywhere else, but politics is owning it. I think adding a Political Forum would be a good idea because then if someone is really interested in politics, they would be able to just look up all the topics in one section.

It may also be a good idea to just add a whole new politics category. One for general politics, one for say, North American politics, European politics, etc. And mayber even forums for current political happenings. I know a lot of Frihosters are United Statians (see my blog post http://www.frihost.com/users/polly-gone/blog/vp-80123.html) and there is a ton of hype about the 2008 elections. There could be a forum created just on the 2008 election, then removed in mid-2009 once the new president has been in office awhile and all of the hype has died down.

Just a suggestion, but I think it is actually a very good one, but that's just my ego-filled opinion of myself.

-Nick Smile Smile Smile

P.S. There is a reason I sign my messages with "-Nick". It's to point out that I do not really like my user-name anymore, but I can deal with it. If you are PMing me, please call me "Nick"!
Thanks. -Nick
dray101
Yeah I think that's a great idea, I'm all in Laughing

It would be good to have some serious debates about political issues!
ocalhoun
Well, this has been suggested in some form or other many times. Before it is automatically disqualified because of that, I would ask that we consider why it gets suggested over and over.

And really, would it be that hard to just make a temporary one, to see how it does?
rvec
ocalhoun wrote:
Well, this has been suggested in some form or other many times. Before it is automatically disqualified because of that, I would ask that we consider why it gets suggested over and over.

And really, would it be that hard to just make a temporary one, to see how it does?

it's easier to just wait and see if there is interest, and it's easier to check in the exsisting posts for posts that would belong in the new forum. And after seeing this thread and reading the topics in the forum about political issues i think everything fits in the other forums good enough.
polly-gone
But searching for em is hard! It would be convenient for one spot only! LOL

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
dray101
polly-gone wrote:
But searching for em is hard! It would be convenient for one spot only! LOL

-Nick Smile Smile Smile


here, here Laughing

I think it would also lead to more serious and in-depth discussions rather than short waste-of-time posts.

I know that I can rarely be bothered to find a serious debate and normally end up posting to help someone, in one of those "Have you heard about that movie?" topics, or something trivial like that.
polly-gone
I know a forum would cause a serious debate too. If you look at some political posts, it is an occasional one sentence post. I am ready to sacrafice alot of points to type a ten point post that I only get 5 for!

Forget my idea for a whole category, for now! There should just be one forum that is created that will have a deadline of say, November 6th, 2008. If there are XX number of posts by then, the posts could be moved to general, and the forum delteted.

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
mOrpheuS
Clearly there's enough demand for this, and I personally believe it will be successful.

However, the difficulty is keeping all the political discussions within this section.

Most of the political debate at FRIHost takes place in the "Discuss World News" section right now.
Where there is world news, political debates ensue.
polly-gone
Well you could put a sticky there! It would say, "Hey, let these people read word news in peace, Come on over to the political forum and have a raging abttle with Nick (me) about how much he knows about politics for only being a teen! Check out his blog too! He is so awesome, don;t you agree"

See! There's a little bit of self PR, but w/e....

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
James007
I know some of our frihosters are real "political analysts", and I'm also aware of the fact we need a separate place for those discussions (if you would only consider the amount of topics). BUT...

One really dangerous thing about centralising all these topics, is that it would resemble a c0ck fight. Just put all of them next to each other and let the battle begin! The older Frihosters among us know that not everyone plays the discussion game by the rules, and some people are just a bit too driven in their opinion and there willingness to convince others of that opinion. Also, it would need a lot of moderation action, as things will get out of control sometimes, inevitably. I don't think it would really contribute to our community feeling. Only if we would make some very strict rules, and people play by those rules. You know politicians, they tend to stab each other in the back and I don't want those political fights to spread out to other forums.

Asking for a separate forum for the American politicians is a bit playing your luck. It would be more interesting if one should finally have the guts to start a comparison of all those political systems around the world rather than a forum filled with American "republican vs. democrats"-fights (we can do that in one topic). Also, there isn't yet a "European political system" (it's more of a European Justice system and that's not the same).

So, in short... yes, one forum for politics shouldn't pose a problem, but I already told you about the risks...
polly-gone
Hmm... Nick has just come up with a genius idea. A special team of mods for a political forum/category. It would consist of the regular mods, but would have some people that could be 'Political Modereators', ya know, like in debates and stuff. *Nick raises his hand for a mod position if this idea is considered. He loves politics and Frihost*

See, this is exactly why I am good at politics: If you have a problem with one of my ideas, I can come up with a solution. I don't even have to lie about it (like most politicians). Wink

-Nick Cool Cool Cool
James007
First of all, it is not a genious idea. I'll tell you why. Don't you think the one thing a political moderator should do is stay away from political related topics himself? (as in not contributing to...)
polly-gone
Well, I didn't mean that... I meant, to keep people in line. If people start spewing random bs and getting out of line, that's what the dedicated mods would do. Idk why I said like in a debate. hmm... I think my brain is borked.

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
ocalhoun
James007 wrote:
First of all, it is not a genious idea. I'll tell you why. Don't you think the one thing a political moderator should do is stay away from political related topics himself? (as in not contributing to...)

If the moderators are well chosen, that shouldn't be any more of a problem than it is in any other forum, where moderators participate in discussions. I do very much like the idea of having special moderators just for that forum. Any moderator would be warned that if he is accused of abusing his powers, he will go back to being an ordinary member, which would make them all careful to be fair and impartial when using mod powers. These same moderators could possibly be temporarily given mod powers in the world news forum, to help move topics to the political forum, again, they would be strictly warned against abuse of their powers.

As for confining political debate to that forum, a few moved topics and warnings should get the point across mostly. But I don't see why discussing the political aspects of a certain piece of news shouldn't be allowed in that forum, as long as the news itself is not eminently political.
(No more news topics like "Australian federal election - Labor wins it" and "Hilary Clinton to be next President of U.S." These topics would be moved to the political forum. If somebody wanted to rant about how such and such political party is to blame for "8 and 9 years old boys charged of Raping a Minor", that wouldn't have to be moved.) A sticky topic in both forums (and something in the forum descriptions) would help, too.
James007
Right, do you think that the admin would approve of the idea that moderators would be walking in and out the mods forum like a local shopping mall? Also there is a very fine line between biased and non-biased. Who is going to decide whether this mod gets fired or not? I'm not against a politics forum, but someone should find a solution for moderating the whole thing.
rvec
I think we can just keep it the way it is now but with category-mods just like we have language mods now. We could split the "Lifestyle and News" category to "Lifestyle" and "News".

The "Lifestyle and News", "Sports and Entertainment", "Webmaster and Internet", "Scripting", "Frihost users" and "Humor" categories aren't as good moderated as the general category is. With one or two (depending on the size) mods per category I think this problem would be solved, and we also solved the problem with the mods for this forum.

Also there are some users especially active in one section. Some of those would probably be a good mod in their category but not in the other ones.
ocalhoun
James007 wrote:
Right, do you think that the admin would approve of the idea that moderators would be walking in and out the mods forum like a local shopping mall?
With careful mod choices, this wouldn't be a problem. Also, they don't need to have access to any private forum. They are just politics moderators, after all.
Quote:
Also there is a very fine line between biased and non-biased. Who is going to decide whether this mod gets fired or not?

The admin or possibly the normal mods would make the decision in this (hopefully rare) occasion.
Basically, a user would post a very flame-ish post, and then one of the polmods would find it and delete it, giving the user a warning. This user decides that was totally unfair, he was following all the rules, and that mod must just hate him because they disagree. So, that user complains to another mod or polmod or the admin. Whoever receives the complaint forwards it to a different polmod, where it is supposed to go. If they can't decide weather the complaint is valid, the polmods forward this complaint to the admin. The admin looks at the deleted post, and decides the polmod was correct in deleting it, and decides not to fire the polmod.

This would be the worst case scenario for wasting time; hopefully, it would be resolved without bothering the admin. In extreme cases, it may be needed to ban a user from the politics forum. (If that user keeps flaming, and then complaining whenever the polmods come down on him for it.)
rvec
banning from one forum will never happen. It's a complete ban or no ban.
polly-gone
Hmm.... Well, with the "Fine line between biased and unbiased". I have a solution to that for modding a political forums. Find like 3 users that hate politics and don't want to deal with them, and then one or two users who would post in the Political forum. The politics haters could just browse through the forums looking for rule violations, etc. The one or two politicians could do the same but also get into discussions. It would balance out because if one mod was getting biased with how they took care of problems, the other mods could stop them. Plus they could say... umm... have limited powers. Like they couldn't actually issue bans, etc they would have to have a regular mod look at it. Then there is almost no chance for bias.

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
ocalhoun
^But the politics haters would be disinclined to browse the political forum... Just how like I never go to the relationships forum.
polly-gone
ocalhoun wrote:
^But the politics haters would be disinclined to browse the political forum... Just how like I never go to the relationships forum.


But your not a mod! Wink

If I were a mod I would just go to every forum, even the ones I find stupid just because moderators are cool like that. Smile

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
rvec
polly-gone wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
^But the politics haters would be disinclined to browse the political forum... Just how like I never go to the relationships forum.


But your not a mod! Wink

If I were a mod I would just go to every forum, even the ones I find stupid just because moderators are cool like that. Smile

-Nick Smile Smile Smile

Rolling Eyes We are?
sorry just can't make this more than a one liner Smile
polly-gone
rvec wrote:
polly-gone wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
^But the politics haters would be disinclined to browse the political forum... Just how like I never go to the relationships forum.


But your not a mod! Wink

If I were a mod I would just go to every forum, even the ones I find stupid just because moderators are cool like that. Smile

-Nick Smile Smile Smile

Rolling Eyes We are?
sorry just can't make this more than a one liner Smile


It's an extremely simple equations actually. Cool Mods => Happy Forums => Cool.

And don't forget: Lame and/or No Mods => Sucky Forums => Not Cool.

Simple science really.

-Nick Smile Cool Razz

EDIT: Due to some confusion, please note that I said that the mods are cool. I am not saying Frihost Sucks. See:

Quote:
It's an extremely simple equations actually. Cool Mods => Happy Forums => Cool


It is not Lame and/or No Mods => Sucky Forums => Not Cool. because the most are Cool and/or Existent.

Sorry for the confusion [Person who shall remain nameless] *cough* rvec *cough*

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
ocalhoun
I just thought of something: Every reason given here to say why a political forum would not be a good idea could be applied to the philosophy and religion forum as well!

High potential for flaming, difficult to objectively moderate, users prone to posting topics that belong there in other forums...

If it can work for philosophy and religion, it can work for a political forum, too.
polly-gone
Yeah, that's totally true. I mean, political things are all opinional. Same with religion. I mean there are like 396832 billion real religions. And 2 that are kinda fake. Same whith philosiphy.

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
ocalhoun
polly-gone wrote:
I mean there are like 396832 billion real religions. And 2 that are kinda fake.

So, that's about 61051 real religions per every person alive...
I think that may be a little exaggerated, seeing as how I've only invented 1427 or so, personally.

(Sorry about the off-topicness, I couldn't resist)
gr8inferno
That would be nice.

I'm for it/ before I'm againts it. is it too late?
fimperato
A political forum would be great to have. Although I think it will create some controvirsy and such. Idk I'm up for it I just don't think a lot of people will be fully into talking about touchy subjects that are completly subjective to beliefs and such.
polly-gone
Yes, everything is subjective about politics. But the thing is, everything is subjective about religions and we have a forum for that, don't we?! All the arguments that are being made against the political forum, could also be made against the religion forum, but we have one anyways!

-Nick Smile Smile Wink
ocalhoun
Sorry to hijack the topic a little bit, but I had another thought about a very similar suggestion I made in the past.
Suppose we change philosophy and religion to philosophy, religion, and modern politics
and change history to History and Historical Politics...
I'm not sure I like the wording here, or if it is needed to split it in two, but the idea of combining it with existing forums is good, I think.
polly-gone
I am bringing this up again because I have noticed that there are now a ton of topics about politics (especially election '0Cool popping up around the forums.

This would be a really nice addition to the forums and I know that I would have at least 5 posts a day in there.

-Nick Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
ocalhoun
It would indeed be nice. I recently posted a topic that would have fit perfectly there, but instead I had to crowd the general chat forum with it.

Perhaps it could be combined with the new history forum? (History and Politics) After all, political discussions often include posts about the historical precedent for whatever is going on now, and the more abstract discussions would involve a great deal of history (for example: Is a dictatorship more stable than a monarchy?)
polly-gone
Well, but a political forums would be something that focuses more on modern things. Like the Socialism vs. Monarchy thing really isn't a current political issue if you think about it. That is more Philosophical.

-Nick Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
ocalhoun
^true, true, but I'm trying to overcome the obstacles to this happening. The biggest problem is that yet another independent forum would clutter up the index page even more.

Adding it to the history forum would nicely sidestep that problem, give the forum a relatively prominent place on the index page, and liven up the somewhat slow history forum. It would also be incredibly easy to implement, just editing a bit of text, instead of adding a new forum, which could require writing special rules for it and setting permissions for it, and deciding where on the index page to put it.
webpagist81884
Yea, a political forum would be nice. I agree 100%.
polly-gone
I really think we should have this. Tons of people agree!

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
deanhills
Totally agreed. We need a forum on politics. AND especially on the presidential election. I thought that there could have been much more posted about the current Democratic nominees. It is too late now as this has been sorted out, but so little posted about a a very historic event for the United States. If there had been a separate forum, much more could have been commented on it.

I don't think different geographic areas are needed, as a forum like this is international with no geographical borders. But there could be topical subheadings, i.e. Presidential Elections, Middle East Conflict, Environmental Issues, Refugees and Xenophobia (as in South Africa presently), World Leaders. Maybe somebody else can suggest some sub-headings?
rvec
I'd suggest just see what will be posted and maybe create stickies on those topics. I don't know how many people would want a political forum, but I think history should just be renamed to history and politics.
Marineguyfla
This would be nice, and would keep political discussion from other fourms, maybe where people dont like to talk about politics!
misterXY
Sounds good, but political and religion can make things go sour quicker then you know it. it only takes a misconception too turn things horrible.
Bondings
I'l probably create a politics forum, since it's a good idea and I was already planning to do it once. I wouldn't like it to make it a joined forum with History, rather a separate forum.
ocalhoun
Bondings wrote:
I'l probably create a politics forum, since it's a good idea and I was already planning to do it once. I wouldn't like it to make it a joined forum with History, rather a separate forum.


I can't wait to see it. Shouldn't take long just to add a forum, eh? (Unless you put way too much effort into description and rules) What section will it be in?
polly-gone
OMG! YES! w00t! This is the first time one of my suggestions has ever been passed! Thanks, Bondings!

-Nick Laughing Laughing Laughing
ocalhoun
Hm, I pity the mods who will have to go through and move existing topics to the politics forum!
misterXY
ocalhoun wrote:
Hm, I pity the mods who will have to go through and move existing topics to the politics forum!

lol And l pity the one who loses the data if messed up Razz
polly-gone
*Hears rvec scream and run in the other direction because wherever I post, he seems to be not far behind.*

Well, I don't see why they would need to go through and search it all. I mean, they could just most it when they come across it or just respond to reposts to move the posts.

-Nick Smile Smile Smile
Bondings
It's not necessary to move all the posts, maybe a few for an initial fill so the forum won't be empty. Also, I'm not hurried in creating it, sorry, I'll do it when I find some time in the next few days.
polly-gone
Oh, you don't need to worry about an initial fill. I have been looking for a soap box.

-Nick Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
deanhills
Wonderful to hear the political forum is coming Bondings, this is much appreciated. Am happy to hear it will stand on its own instead of lumped in with history. Smile
rvec
polly-gone wrote:
*Hears rvec scream and run in the other direction because wherever I post, he seems to be not far behind.*

Well, I don't see why they would need to go through and search it all. I mean, they could just most it when they come across it or just respond to reposts to move the posts.

-Nick Smile Smile Smile

don't worry I won't be in the political forum Wink
I like the PHP forum though so if you start missing me take a look there Razz
ocalhoun
Yay! the political forum is up and running I see! (And it only took 6 months from the time it was (most recently) suggested, amazing!) I barely noticed, though; will there be an announcement about it?
Fatality
Great idea guys, I'll have to go check it out.

~Fatality
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