Jakarta Post
2 Nov 2007
| Quote: |
Parents ignore doctors and take home H5N1-infected toddler from hospital
Multa Fidrus, The Jakarta Post, Tangerang
Parents of a Tangerang toddler confirmed to have been infected with avian influenza forced the hospital Wednesday to discharge their child, the hospital director said.
Sardikin Giriputro of Sulianti Saroso Infectious Disease Hospital said there was nothing the hospital could do because the parents of the three-year-old boy insisted on taking their child home.
"The boy is recovering but is still receiving treatment for the (avian influenza) infection," Sardikin said as quoted by news portal Tempointeraktif.
The hospital, Sardikin said, had immediately contacted Tangerang Health Agency and a health clinic near the boy's house that will keep monitoring him and take necessary measures to ensure his recovery.
"We also have a team that can be alerted at anytime to back up the local agency and the clinic," he said.
The boy is a resident of Suka Asih village in Pasar Kemis, Tangerang. He reportedly suffered a high fever on Oct. 22 and was later admitted to the hospital.
Yuliah Iskandar, a local health official, said Tuesday a field examination and interview found the boy's family had raised chickens in their backyard that had recently died from an unknown illness.
A team of officials tasked with finding the source of the H5N1 virus have examined blood samples from 20 people who had recent contact with the boy.
The boy's father, Ahmad, who works as scrap metal trader, declined to be interviewed by journalists.
Darman, a member of staff at the nearby health clinic, confirmed Ahmad had taken his son home from the hospital.
"They believe their son is recovered, so there is no need to keep him longer at the hospital," he said.
"We will monitor the boy's condition closely for at least two weeks."
The H5N1 virus killed two children in Tangerang in October; a 13-year-old boy, who died on Oct. 13 and a four-year-old girl, who died on Oct. 22.
Nationwide, there have been 110 confirmed cases of bird flu in humans, 87 of which have been fatal.
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This is how seriously Indonesia takes the threat of a bird flu pandemic.
If it does happen you can bet your a*s it will start here.
Even with the highest number of bird flu deaths in the world, about 43% (87 from 205) of the total deaths in fact, Indonesia is still stuffing around like this.
I really love this statement though.
| Quote: |
| Sardikin Giriputro of Sulianti Saroso Infectious Disease Hospital said there was nothing the hospital could do because the parents of the three-year-old boy insisted on taking their child home. |
He has to be joking , right?
Sadly not. This is Indonesia. From a strictly hygienic point of view, the whole family, relatives and neighbors should be quarantined. From a social point of view, the parents should get caned exhaustively so as to learn they just CAN'T do that.
Wow, that is insane. Do they not realize the possible results of their actions on the entire globe! How selfish.
| PMK-Bear wrote: |
| From a strictly hygienic point of view, the whole family, relatives and neighbors should be quarantined. From a social point of view, the parents should get caned exhaustively so as to learn they just CAN'T do that. |
Definitely agree with the quarantine thing.
There's just too much at risk here.Bird Flu update for Indonesia, already another death.
Jakarta Post
5 Nov 07
| Quote: |
Woman dies of bird flu, raising Indonesian death toll to 90
JAKARTA (AP): An Indonesia woman has died of bird flu after handling dead chickens, bringing the national death toll from the disease to 90, the Health Ministry said Monday.
The latest victim was a 30-year-old woman who died in an east Jakarta hospital Saturday, said Ningrum, an official with the ministry's Bird Flu Center who like many Indonesians goes by a single name.
The woman was hospitalized on Oct. 28 with flu-like symptoms and two laboratory tests for the H5N1 strain of the illness were positive, said Ningrum.(***) |
It's on the way! Perhaps if Indonesia won't quarantine individuals, the world should quarantine Indonesia?
No traffic in or out, and anybody who makes it past the safeguards is under individual quarantine.
Would it be worth it? Perhaps it would make Indonesia change its stance on quarantines.
And only 5 days later
Jakarta Post 10 Nov 07
| Quote: |
Man dies of bird flu, raising Indonesian death toll to 91
JAKARTA (AP): An Indonesian man died of bird flu, bringing the death toll in the country worst hit by the virus to 91, a top Health Ministry official said Saturday.
The 31-year-old died on Friday soon after arriving at a government hospital in Pekanbaru on Sumatra island, said I Nyoman Kandun, the director general of communicable disease control at the Health Ministry.
Kandun said investigators were trying to determine the likely source of the virus.
Almost all human cases so far have been traced to contact with infected birds.
Indonesia has recorded regular deaths from bird flu since the virus began ravaging poultry stocks across Asia in 2003.
Its 91 deaths now account for almost half of the recorded fatalities worldwide, according to the World Health Organization.
The disease remains hard for people to catch, but health experts fear it could mutate into a form that spreads easily between humans, potentially sparking a global pandemic.
Indonesia, the world's fourth most populous nation and home to millions of backyard chickens, is considered a potential location for such a pandemic to begin. |
And I've yet to see anything materialize of "Bird Flu" ... just another over-hyped, over-politicized fad. I mean, c'mon, we used to hear about it daily last year. Now you have to search diligently to find anything about it. I'm assuming the virus didn't disappear, just the hype.
| paul_indo wrote: |
Almost all human cases so far have been traced to contact with infected birds.
|
So, some cases have been human-to-human transmission? Or have they just not been traced yet?
As for the hype, it is somewhat justified. If there was something as contagious as the flu, but killed people instead of just making them sick, it would be very bad for the world. At least in the short term, it would be worse than AIDS.Has H5N1 mutated, yet, so that it will pass from human to human? Or is it still only infecting people who have had direct contact with infected birds?
FWIW, I think this situation could happen anywhere in the world. If any child of mine was in a UK hospital under similar circumstances I'd want him out of there as quickly as possible given the current risk of deadly hospital-acquired infections. The fact that he is recovering from bird 'flu wouldn't be an issue - it's already in his home environment anyway.
I believe that no case has been confirmed as human to human transmission. Some cases simply haven't been traced back to the source, which is probably still birds.
The dangerous thing, I feel, is that in Indonesia, where cases are so frequent and little has been done to prevent it's spread, the bird flu will mutate to transmit from human to human.
Ever human infected gives the virus a greater chance of successful mutation. This is why I believe the Indonesian attitude is so disturbing, and irresponsible.
What the hell?? How could you ingnore the warnings of a doctor. This people should better then everyone else that this disease is so dangerous. Such people disserve a kick on there back.
About the quarantine that is mensioned above, i completly agree it.
The risks that are involved in the contimation to other people is far to dangerous.
I hope that this people will learn that having animals or pets that are related to birds, chickens,... should be forbidden in the time that such disease is a great treath.
Just cann't believe the level of ignorence and carelessness.
| paul_indo wrote: |
I believe that no case has been confirmed as human to human transmission. Some cases simply haven't been traced back to the source, which is probably still birds.
The dangerous thing, I feel, is that in Indonesia, where cases are so frequent and little has been done to prevent it's spread, the bird flu will mutate to transmit from human to human.
Ever human infected gives the virus a greater chance of successful mutation. This is why I believe the Indonesian attitude is so disturbing, and irresponsible. |
Yes, exactly. What is the death rate currently? I last heard it was %40, old and young. An outbreak of human-human for something like this would get a name and change the social map.This is kinda off topic, but it seems like every post you make you're always bashing on Indonesia. Is it really that bad?
Well read the news stories that I post and tell me what you think. Or read the "Jakarta Post" online for the latest news.
I am not "bashing" Indonesia. I am merely trying to show people what goes on here. I believe there is a need for a major attitude change within Indonesian government and from the religious leaders also. The Indonesian people deserve better treatment.
When I wake up I listen to the news and I heard about the bird flue today. They said that if it turns into a pandemic (not sure if it was the right word) it can kill half the people in a country.
I believe it has mutated, there are almost no viruses that don’t mutate in some way.
It's at 92 now and rising.
From Channel News Asia website.
| Quote: |
Indonesia confirms 92nd bird flu death
Posted: 11 December 2007 1315 hrs
JAKARTA: A 28-year-old woman from the outskirts of the Indonesian capital has been confirmed as dying of bird flu, raising the toll in the nation worst affected by H5N1 to 92, the health ministry said Tuesday.
Two laboratory tests on the woman, who died on Monday at a hospital in Jakarta, showed that she was infected with the virus, a statement from the ministry's bird flu information centre said.
Two positive results of tests on blood and tissue samples from a victim are needed before Indonesian authorities confirm a bird flu infection here.
Officials had earlier told AFP that they were still investigating whether the woman, who had sold ornamental plants, had come into contact with infected poultry, the usual method of transmission to humans of the virus.
The health ministry statement said that a neighbour living 100 metres (yards) away from the victim, who was named Mutiah, owned poultry. It was not immediately clear whether they were infected birds.
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| Soulfire wrote: |
| And I've yet to see anything materialize of "Bird Flu" ... just another over-hyped, over-politicized fad. I mean, c'mon, we used to hear about it daily last year. Now you have to search diligently to find anything about it. I'm assuming the virus didn't disappear, just the hype. |
I agree with you.
1. Avian influenza is clearly over-hyped.
Deadly global pandemic? Wipe out millions? We're not in a Hollywood disaster movies!
Looking for some previous examples of those global pandemics I've found only 5 in the last century (according to Wikipedia, a pretty reliable source though not "academic"): 2 of cholera and 3 of influenza.
Only one of those could be called global and deadly and it has its explanations:
| Wikipedia wrote: |
The "Spanish flu", 1918–1919. First identified early March 1918 in US troops training at Camp Funston, Kansas, by October 1918 it had spread to become a world-wide pandemic on all continents. Unusually deadly and virulent, it ended nearly as quickly as it began, vanishing completely within 18 months. In six months, 25 million were dead; some estimates put the total of those killed worldwide at over twice that number. An estimated 17 million died in India, 500,000 in the United States and 200,000 in the UK. The virus was recently reconstructed by scientists at the CDC studying remains preserved by the Alaskan permafrost. They identified it as a type of H1N1 virus[citation needed]. |
Does anyone remember the previous scare? SARS in 2003.
2. Follow the money!
a) pharmaceutical companies increase their sales: people buy vaccines, governments buy disinfectants, ...
b) the news media need alarming stories to increase their ratings => more money from commercials
c) and follow the mad scientists! (after all with publicity they gain new sponsors, their labs don't get closed, etc):
| AmericanScientist wrote: |
In 1997 the world came perilously close to a global epidemic of the "flu." If this particular virus had attained the ability to spread from person to person, the pandemic might have taken the lives of a third of the human population. As it was, only six people died—and all of them had contracted the virus from chickens sold in Hong Kong poultry markets. The only thing that saved us was the quick thinking of scientists who convinced health authorities to slaughter more than a million domesticated fowl in the city's markets. The avian virus turned out to be a new strain—one that the human population had never seen before. Webster, one of the scientists who consulted Hong Kong authorities in 1997, and Walker tell a horrific tale: These new, deadly strains arise a few times every century, and the next one is around the corner.
|
For those ready to faint, the situation described is not impossible.... but extremely improbable. Sleep well at night! 
PS: The article who originated this topics never mentions if the boy still carried the virus when released from hospital. I presume this wasn't the case. The devil is in the details!The article stated he was "recovering" and "still receiving treatment" so it could be safely assumed that, as he was not yet well, there was a high risk that he still carried the virus.
This can not be confirmed as Indonesia has to send blood samples overseas to get them checked and as the boy was removed from the hospital this would not have been done again after the first confirmation of infection.
We must remember that there is no conclusive evidence that it can be passed between humans. It is simply that this type of action increases greatly the chances of a pandemic.
smarter said
| Quote: |
| Looking for some previous examples of those global pandemics I've found only 5 in the last century |
Isn't that quite a few? I think five demonstrates that the risk is quite high if people ignore the procedures designed to minimise it.
smarter said
| Quote: |
| As it was, only six people died |
That was due to good management.
The point I am making here is that "good management" is lacking in Indonesia's handling of bird flu.
There are already 92 dead here alone as I have shown.
If this continues the chances are obviously increased for human transmission. If the procedures are followed as per infectious diseases an outbreak is very unlikely, as you said smarter
You are perfectly correct, it is being over hyped. Unfortunately the hype may become reality if these sorts of breaches of infectious disease procedures are allowed to happen. And when I get home from work tonight , after jut posting this morning, what is waiting on the internet?
| Quote: |
Indonesian death toll from bird flu climbs to 93, after man dies of virus
JAKARTA (AP): An Indonesian man died of bird flu, bringing the death toll in the country worst hit by the virus to 93, a Health Ministry official said Friday.
Authorities were trying to ascertain how the 47-year-old man contracted the deadly H5N1 strain of the disease, which has infected 115 people in Indonesia.
The man began showing signs of illness on Dec. 2 and died Thursday night at a hospital in the capital, Jakarta, after being admitted with a fever, cough and other flu-like symptoms, said spokesman Joko Suyono.
He lived in the industrial town of Tangerang, 40 kilometers west of Jakarta.
Indonesia has recorded regular deaths from bird flu since the virus began ravaging poultry stocks across Asia in 2003 and its 93 deaths now account for almost half of the recorded fatalities worldwide, according to figures from the World Health Organization.
Almost all cases have originated from sick poultry, but experts fear it will mutate into a strain that can pass more easily from human to human. Indonesia, which has millions of backyard chickens, is a potential hotspot for a global bird flu pandemic, scientists have warned. |
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailgeneral.asp?fileid=20071214145015&irec=1
As well as this.
| Quote: |
Bird flu resurfaces in Asia, human deaths and poultry outbreaks reported
HANOI, Vietnam (AP) - Bird flu has resurfaced in parts of Asia, with human deaths reported in Indonesia and China and fresh poultry outbreaks plaguing other countries during the winter months when the virus typically flares.
Indonesia, the nation hardest hit by the H5N1 virus, announced its 93rd death on Friday after a 47-year-old man died a day earlier in a Jakarta hospital, said Health Ministry spokesman Joko Suyono. He fell ill on Dec. 2 and was admitted with flu-like symptoms, becoming Indonesia's 115th person infected with the disease.
In China, the military in eastern Nanjing banned the sale of poultry this week after a father and son were sickened by the disease earlier this month. Health officials confirmed the 24-year-old man died from the virus a day before his father, 52, became sick. It was the country's 17th bird flu death.
The two were believed to have eaten a traditional dish known as "beggar's chicken," in which the bird is wrapped in lotus leaves and baked. However, the cause of infection remained unclear. The father is recovering after taking the antiviral Tamiflu, said Hans Troedsson, World Health Organization representative in China. More than 80 people who had contact with the family were being monitored for symptoms.
Local animal health officials said last week no H5N1 outbreaks had been detected among the province's poultry, but Troedsson said sick birds typically are not reported prior to human deaths in China - a sign the country's surveillance systems need to be improved.
The virus has killed 208 people worldwide since it began ravaging Asian poultry stocks in late 2003, according to the World Health Organization. It remains difficult for people to catch, but experts fear it could mutate into a form that passes easily among people, potentially infecting millions globally. So far, most human cases have been linked to contact with sick birds.
Scientists say it is impossible to predict what the H5N1 virus will do, but more bird flu outbreaks often occur when temperatures drop as winter sets in.
Officials in Pakistan were investigating the country's first suspected bird flu cases Friday after two poultry farm workers died this week after being hospitalized with flu-like symptoms in Peshawar, said Khushdil Khan, medical superintendent of the Khyber Teaching Hospital.
Blood samples were sent to the Health Ministry in Islamabad for testing, but the results have not been confirmed, Khan said. Pakistan has grappled with bird flu outbreaks among poultry for the past two years, but no human cases have been reported.
Meanwhile, the disease has resurfaced in several provinces across Vietnam in recent months, killing or forcing the slaughter of thousands of birds. So far, 46 people have died from the virus nationwide.
Hong Kong closed its famed Mai Po bird sanctuary to the public for three weeks starting Friday after a wild gray heron discovered nearby tested positive for the virus. Russia and Poland also have experienced recent outbreaks among poultry, but neither have detected human cases.
---Associated Press writers Irwan Firdaus in Jakarta, Indonesia; Audra Ang in Beijing; and Riaz Khan in Peshawar, Pakistan contributed to this report. |
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailgeneral.asp?fileid=20071214193016&irec=0
This has the potential to become some serious s**t.
