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realistic request?





bjwok
hi folks,

my girlfriend recently dumped me after we had been apart for just on 2months. (i am in australia and she went to london) we have been fighting a lot and there were a couple of things that led to the demise, both from my side and from hers.

i am 15 days before i leave for london myself (originally to be with her) and we are trying to sort our relationship out to some degree.

my girl has put forth the following requirements and i wanted to see what you guys think of them:

Ok so here are the terms upon which I would like to negotiate your offer.

1. No sulking when I go out with my mates (which is A LOT).
2. No jealousy, no stalking, no unreasonable assumptions, and no insecurity - I refuse to reassure you every time your mind plays tricks on you. Youíre a big boy & I expect you to keep a level head.
3. Youíll have to get your own place Ė I donít want us to be living in each othersí pockets, and I have sussed out the logistics of the shoebox, even had a mate come over to see, and trust me, it is NOT going to work with 2 people in there.
4. There may be weeks where we donít see each other, and sometimes you may have to settle for tagging along while I do the grocery shopping if you want to spend time with me that badly.
5. I am very committed to yoga & becoming an instructor. I will be spending a lot of time in Notting Hill at my Yoga school and no, you canít come. I need to focus.
6. I love my mates & like to see them each at least once or twice a week. This means a lot of late nights, sometimes sleepovers if the tube is out. Again, no jealousy.
7. No phone calls at work.
8. No surprise visits at work or at home. I constantly have deadlines & canít drop everything to see you. Iím rarely home except to sleep, and if I am itís usually because I want to be alone.
9. No phone calls after 11pm
10. With the exception of photos & videos, we stay off each otherís facebook. I think we can both agree that itís getting to be a real problem, and one of us is taking it a little too seriously.

I also have quite a lot keeping me busy so if you want to do anything special, like dinner or a movie youíll have to give me at least a weekís notice, and then remind me like 3 days before. In return, if a gap opens up youíll be the first person I call.

I know this all sounds very sterile & not much like fun at all, but itís the way I work & I have tried a lot of things in the past and this is the method that I find works best for managing my time.
It was like this before I met you and then when I started planning for London things got a bit out of whack. I am finally back into a routine that works, and I intend to keep it that way.

Unfortunately, I have hardened again whilst weíve been apart. The barriers have been put back up, and my heart is pretty much impenetrable right now. You have made me smile, but as for things ever going back to the way they used to be, thereís a very long way to go.

I am going to work on my commitment phobia & try to get to the bottom of it. Iím not sure that there is a cure, or even if a cure is the answer for me. Iím not sure that commitment is something that can be learned, I think you just need to want it. I also know that sometimes things stand in the way, and I will try my hardest to figure out what those things are and deal with them.

Let me know your thoughts, and if your offer still stands.

------------------

she put forth all this, but has not been able to offer me any form of commitment herself.

thoughts?
molif
it sounds like she doesn't even want to make it work. sorry dude, but she seemingly wants to cut you out.

she is fairly reasonable to ask for some time out with her friends, but things like planning dates a week in advance!? hmmm, if she really loves you, she wouldn't mind seeing you when you need to. it's like she only cares for herself and this relationship seems like she makes the decisions. relationship means 2 people's input, not one.

if it doesn't turn out the way you want, sorry. but i hope you 2 can work out something when you're there. hopefully she will soften a bit and you 2 can work out great. if not, move on. really.
xkobram
I agree with what molif said...

This is realy too much. She doesn't want to be with you, she only want you to be her hobby. It can't work. She wants you to behave like a slave, but she doesn't seem to do something for you.

Some of the requests are reasonable, but most of them is just mad. This is not relationship partner=partner. It's more like boss=>worker. And I don't think the salary is good enough.
Azmo
Can't do anything else but agree with the other two posts, she wanna focus on her carieer... yoga instructor? hm, I got 2 instructors licenses, aint that hard to fix.. anyways.. in this relationship, you'll have to live by her rules and only see her when she wants to, only talks to her when she have time for you.. and it sounds like you will get like half the time her friends get.. and that's not ok with me.. friends are ok, but she is childish and selfish...

If I were you I would leave her, cause you can do a lot better. and be happier.. with someone who wants to spend time with you, who wants you to call and suprise them and don't need a weeks notice just to go out and grab some food..!!
frozenhead
Well, I won't elaborate more of opinions posted by the guys, I fourth demotion.
bjwok
thanks for the replies and thoughts guys.

i have to add one other piece of info: i love this girl.

some of the points she has made are valid i think, and some are completely ridiculous, and i was willing to negotiate and bring some of my own ideas to the table. but for that to happen i needed to have a commitment from her. she was not willing to give it, making her level of love for me pretty clear.

i leave for london in 12 days, if she is there at the airport to meet me and just being together again changes something then i guess things may be ok, otherwise i am going to have to put my "i'm single and confident and can do better than you" headband on and walk away.

she has treated this relationship like boss+>worker as xkobram said, but i know for a fact the salary is definitely worth it. i just need to find the correct union to join in order to enterprise bargain with her.

did i just write that? wtf??? i thought we were talking about love here?!!!
urbanbuddha
Some of her requirements are actually really meaningful. The list seems like a LOT. But but from reading the list, you can narrow down the issue to one item. And it seems that her main concern is trust. Has trust been a really big issue in the past with your relationship?

She seems like the type that needs her space and independence and she can't have that if you are constantly badgering her due to mistrust. If you really want this to work out, I would follow her list of requirements and learn to trust her so that she can take the space she needs to get her things done without having to deal with a jealous boyfriend (remember, trust her and support her!)

I hope things work out for you.
xkobram
I still think that what would you get is not enough.

When I was writing my first post I little forgot that you have loved her very much.

It seems to me, the relationship won't work much longer than few months. Ask yourself some questions: Dou you feel that she loves you? Do you think she doesn't only want to be kind and not to hurt you?

My friend realy cares about not hurting someone even she doesn't love him any more. She stayed with one guy for few months just thinking "I will fall in love with him again."

This seems to me quite same. But I don't know if she loves you. You will have to decide. Be aware of not only being tortured by these rules...
mathewrb
I don't think that it will work out either. Having a couple issues with my girl at the moment, it seems she doesn't really want to work it out, but doesn't want to cut you out completely yet, like she may be waiting for a new "Knight in Shining Armor". I would just look for a new girl in London. I am from the US but currently in Germany and have traveled all over, and I can tell you the Euro Girls are HAWT!
molif
love conquers all and that by far is more important then anything. but love is not enough to survive a relationship. after reading everyone's replies, i agree that some sort she is being realistic and trust is what she needs. if that is the case, i think you have to prove you love and support her more then doubt what she feels for you.
frozenhead
Hmm.. Reading out the points you made. I think you have every right to "negotiate" (i can't find more appropriate word for my thought) with her. So, go on and meet her there. I hope you can clear things between you. Let us know what happened when you will come back soon.

Goodluck. Smile
furtasacra
Do yourself a favor -- stay in Australia. This girl is cruel. She obviously doesn't want you around. Notice there is NO suggestion of the possibility of reconciliation in her message whatsoever, but only terms under which she will consider tolerating your presence on the dusty fringes of the tapestry of her life.

These three items caught my eye:

Quote:

4. There may be weeks where we donít see each other, and sometimes you may have to settle for tagging along while I do the grocery shopping if you want to spend time with me that badly.

6. I love my mates & like to see them each at least once or twice a week. This means a lot of late nights, sometimes sleepovers if the tube is out. Again, no jealousy.

If you want to do anything special, like dinner or a movie youíll have to give me at least a weekís notice.


Hmm. She absolutely must see every single one of her friends at least once or twice a week, but won't make time for you unless you beg for it at least a week in advance, and she has nothing (or NOBODY) better to do.... unless you want to follow her around while she's shopping. Maybe she'll graciously permit you carry her parcels like a servant.

Screw that. Have some dignity. It's over.

If you truly love her, the only thing you can do to prove it right now is to let her go and leave her alone.
apple
I also think she is taking advantage of you and she wants to call it quits. I guess she's trying to frustrate you into calling an end to the relationship. Rules are good but omg, she's over doing it!!!

I take it by now you've somehow made a decision?

My advice is to love and let it go...you don't deserve your affections for her to be used and she's clearly taking advantage of you.

sweety...cry and let her go.
rvbarreto
Hey guy, if there is one good thing you can do it's to fing a girl who really deserves to stay with you. I know that you want her, but things don't really work like that, and you must valorize your self!

Once a girl broke up with me, and I was so in love with her that I can't see how I was ridicularizing my self to try to stay with her... And finally, when I get up and start a new life... she missed me hehehe. Life like to play some games with us, and you must learn something with it. I learn to valorize my self, and 2 years latter I found a girl who really deserves my company and completely filled me up, and so I to her.

A person who really wants you will nerver put requirements for it. She will just want you. Simple like that.

Good Lucky pal! Wink
ssthanapati
bjwok wrote:


4. There may be weeks where we donít see each other, and sometimes you may have to settle for tagging along while I do the grocery shopping if you want to spend time with me that badly.

7. No phone calls at work.
8. No surprise visits at work or at home. I constantly have deadlines & canít drop everything to see you. Iím rarely home except to sleep, and if I am itís usually because I want to be alone.
9. No phone calls after 11pm
10. With the exception of photos & videos, we stay off each otherís facebook. I think we can both agree that itís getting to be a real problem, and one of us is taking it a little too seriously.

I also have quite a lot keeping me busy so if you want to do anything special, like dinner or a movie youíll have to give me at least a weekís notice, and then remind me like 3 days before. In return, if a gap opens up youíll be the first person I call.

I know this all sounds very sterile & not much like fun at all, but itís the way I work & I have tried a lot of things in the past and this is the method that I find works best for managing my time.
It was like this before I met you and then when I started planning for London things got a bit out of whack. I am finally back into a routine that works, and I intend to keep it that way.

Unfortunately, I have hardened again whilst weíve been apart. The barriers have been put back up, and my heart is pretty much impenetrable right now. You have made me smile, but as for things ever going back to the way they used to be, thereís a very long way to go.

I am going to work on my commitment phobia & try to get to the bottom of it. Iím not sure that there is a cure, or even if a cure is the answer for me. Iím not sure that commitment is something that can be learned, I think you just need to want it. I also know that sometimes things stand in the way, and I will try my hardest to figure out what those things are and deal with them.

Let me know your thoughts, and if your offer still stands.



These things wudnt b acceptable 2 me, or there shud b sme kinda compromise. But she dosent wanna listen!!! SO basically she is treating u like dirt.

Moreover commitment phobia!!! Believe me from my past experiences I have learnt that these dont work out

And it dosent even seem that she wants u back!!!
GSIS
She seems to know what she wants and how to manage her work and leisure time to suit herself.

Right now you'd probably do better by getting out of London as soon as you arrive in the UK. Obviously not easy if you're there for work or study, but if it's just a holiday there's plenty of other places to go that are far more interesting (IMHO).
sopetite
What the heLL!
Cool
requirements?

Man you're going off to london for pete's sake. despite the fact that WOMEN are less in the population doesn't mean that you need to stick around and lower your standards.

Rolling Eyes
REMEMBER, there are lots of ugly men too. Hehe.

You're a nice guy to even post this
bjwok
i've been away for a while and have just come back to a surprise of all these replies! thanks heaps for everyones thoughts, i'll try to answer everyone that has posted...

to urbanbuddha, the issue of trust is not as bing as it may come across in her requests. we gave each other complete trust and i still hold that feeling even though she has done some questionable things to make me think otherwise. i know she has never cheated on me and that is not the main concern, but i do think you are right in some sense that she is testing that trust somewhat.

to xkobram, there is no doubt of her love for me, she just needed time to decide whether she is ready for that kind of commitment.

to mathewrb, there is no other girl on the planet hotter than bec, i don't want anything else but her. if we are strong enough and want the same thing then it will work. we need to see each other again and have that connection that we had before she left. euro girls? pfft, i've got gold here and i ain't letting it go!

to molif, nothing of my love has changed, only she has changed and grown into a different person. if she really wants me to be included in her new life in london and we get through it i am sure we will be fine. having said that, if she cannot give me 100% commitment and put in what i am putting in, then it will not work and i will have to walk away clean and cut my losses. until we are together (in a week!) and we work that out i cannot stop loving her.

to frozenhead, will do mate, i'll keep everyone in the loop here!

to furtasacra, good points you have made and both the points you have highlighted from her are the two that i want to argue against. there is no way i am playing second to any of her new friends and if she truly thinks i will then it is definitely over. like i said before however, i need to see her and discuss this with her before i can make that call, so london here i come!

to apple, i've tried to cry and let her go, but i don't believe this is meant to be the end of us. we were so on fire before she left. there is no reason we cannot get things back to how they were with a little work.

to rvbarreto, it will be up to her to prove to me that she really does want me. i value myself and i will not be with her unless it is all or nothing. there is a long road ahead, believe me!

to ssthanapati, she has been overreacting, i think anyone can see that. but the valid points she has need to be dealt with before we can get it together. i believe in this and am willing to put it all on the line to find out. that is true love right there folks.

to GSIS, at this stage she is meeting me at the airport and we are gonna work on things. i will be staying in london to have the best chance at a solid job in my field.

to sopetite, well thanks for the nice words, but this girl has my heart and until i see her and get it back or continue on this path with her i don't even want to look at another girl.

--------------------

to all:

there has been an update: we have been talking and have decided that we want to make a go of thia, give it the work it needs. she sent me a nice txt saying she loves me and misses me and wants to work on things. i am keen, but as i keep saying only if i can get the level of commitment that i am giving her. it's only fair. i have put a lot into this and if she cannot match it, then i will walk away, head high. i will find out in a week when i get there! Smile
ainieas
Bro i really hope things work out for you but if it were me i'd take the way out as soon as possible. I'd stick in such a relationship only if i was sure that a coming nuclear catastrophe would kill every girl on the planet except her. You can hang on to someone in the name of love but thats the only thing you'll be doing - hanging on to them, praying they don't drop you.
Sorry if i sounded too cynical or harsh. But the listed demands would make sense only if they work both ways. In the end, its your call.
bjwok
thanks man, but i am gonna allow this one a little time to "breathe". the way i see it is that her new life in london will need time to adjust. i need to give her that scope to settle in. i am leaving in 6 days so i guess when do get there we will be able to see exactly where we stand. thanks for the nice words and if it doesn't work out when i do get there and she doesn't put me first i will walk away head high. i am strong enough and deserve better than that. london will help me realise that.
Chris24
bjwok wrote:
thanks for the replies and thoughts guys.

i have to add one other piece of info: i love this girl.



Write down some of the things you love about this girl, then write down the things you don't love about this girl. You better have a long list of why you love this girl after viewing the LIST she gave you to make a relationship work for her...

What about what it would take from HER to make a relationship work for you?!!

My opinion? dump her, get over it and find someone that will make you happy and won't make you go looking for advice or answers to questions I can't imagine you don't already have the answers to...

Good luck and best wishes in this one
furtasacra
Well, good luck, dearie, whatever you do, but I still think you should just drop this girl like a hot potato and do something productive for yourself and/or go out with somebody else while you wait for her to call you, which may never happen.
cavey
Those terms, are they for now? Or is it the future for you two?

When I read term #2, I get the feeling that the terms are made to get some distance. Because you gave her no distance at all before. If so, I hope it will turn into a normal relationship for you two, when those issues are gone. Those terms are not part of a normal relationship!

If my boyfriend and I did not live together, and I wanted to visit him. I would find it extremelly strange that I had to give him a two weeks notice. Why!? With terms like that, I do not wonder why there's jealousy in your relationship.

When I compare #4 and #6 I wonder why you bother. She obviously put you way lower than her friends. You loved one should also be one of your best friends, and valued thereafter.

We all have unwritten "terms" for a relationship. I hope she respect your terms, and that she do not put herself above you in your relationship. You do not diserve to be in a "you should put up with anything because I could dump you anytime"-relationship. Or "I am more worth than you"-relationship.

Good luck! And do not settle for less than you diserve!
DejaaVu
hmmm sorry to hear about this man, sounds like she doesnt want to make this workout at all. Alot of that I would find to be impossible to achieve in a strong relationship sorry mate but thats my opinion.
apple
Hey, well I just wanna wish you all the best....and I commend you for trying again Wink
Chris24
After reading this again this girl sounds like she wants to be the OTHER woman...
bjwok
thanks guys, but this time i am only gonna rely to apple.

apple, thanks for having the same amount of faith that i have for this relationship. the encouragement is welcomed!

everything will be revealed in a couple of days when i get to london. i leave tomorrow. updates will happen when they happen.
DecayClan
Just forget about her... It seams like a REALLY BIG DEAD END...

BUT!!!BUT!!!BUT!!!

What if all this, is just a test?

They are too much for anyone to handle, so it seams WAY TOO OBVIOUS!

What if all that, is just a test, to see, if even after all that, you are still willing to see her, and go there, travel all that distance just for her...

I know that the chances for this are slim, but they still are some...

Try to simulate this scenario to her personality...

>>>>just some extra thoughts<<<<
I don't know about you, but i probably wouldn't take that chance( unless you find it pretty possible...)
mike_phi
Hi there i realise I am late you probably already in London, if you are you did the right thing its always worth it to give a relationship everything you got.

I have traveled allot and lived in many countries and in saying this I have had many long distance relationships.

All I can say is it seems you have a bit of work to do with yourself in terms of self confidence and insecurity issue, always remember that these are your problems and you need to fix them.

Secondly this girl may appear harsh but I doubt it first of all it sounds like she has been through allot of hard times with you but still loves you very much and she is damanding a change in your insecure character basically the girl has put her foot down and is asking for a Man not a baby boy (no insult intended) and some people have said including yourself that she is not offering you anything first of all she does not need to if you love her then dont measure her love based on your effort thats the first mistake, love her unconditionally the only way to satisfy your inner feelings is to keep on loving her even if she is nasty just keep giving love without expecting, think about it what do you lose by just loving, if she wants to go then you have kept yor proise in the relationship this should be the first step in not occupying yourself with her thoughts and intention rather focus on your own thoughts of love.


London mmmm how I love London, it is an amaizing city and very big social scene she as found a kind of comfort and jst needs to settle in this is typical when you arrive in a new city and you feel so happy and free that you dont want anything to disrupt your scene so just allow her to enjoy rather find places for your own enjoyment and entertainment recipricate the same energy back to her without worrying about her wareabouts or anything just let her go and when she feels comfortable with your presence you will be allowed in to occupy more of her life, you probably know exactly what you may have done to put her in such a defensive mode just be present and allow her to unwind in her own way in her own time and rather focus on being part of her joy and not part of her pain try not to bring negative vibes to the table, just a bit of this type of thinking she is bound to open up and let you in because right now the last thing you should do is get annoyed for feeling locked out because thats exactly what she has done and subconciously intended to do I think the two of you have a great oppertunity for love and a fantastic relationship but be a strong solid man for now as that is all she is asking for

cheers and good luck
bjwok
ok folks, well i went.

my girl was there to meet me. we spent the day together and it was beautiful. she was really awesome. then that night back at her place she was so far from me, rejecting every advance i made to get close to her saying she was not my girl.

my heart was crushed, i thought we were back on track. i spent 4 grand finding out we were not.

i was there only a week, sin that time she tried to throw me out of her house in the middle of the night and when i wouldnt leave she had me arrested, i spent the night in a london jail cell after a full strip search.

i spent a lot of time on my own, i cried a lot, i was extremely depressed, i bought a one way ticket to adelaide (australia) but as the plane was taxiing out, i got up and told the captain i had to get off and that i wasn't ready to leave london. they stopped the plane, got my luggage and put me back through customs. i called my ex. we met up for the night in a bed and breakfast. we really spoke about everything seemed to be clear for the first time in a long while. we made love twice. i was beautiful yet terrible. the next day i flew back to australia, still in love and more confused that she is not there in her head like she used to be.

a week after being back in oz, she sent me a email saying that she actually met someone in london WAY back when i was quitting my job.

why she never told me this before is the most hurtful thing. i made a decision in my life without knowing all the facts. i cannot get over this.

nothing happened with this person, but the fact she had feelings for someone that was not me was the reason she broke it off with me. she never considered how much i was putting on the line for her and that is the hardest thing for me to get over. i left my well paid job, i left the country, i rented my house out for a year so i could not go back there. i need to make a mortgage payment tomorrow and i don't know where the money is coming from. our plan was to smash the mortgage by living together in london and sending pound home.

i am working in a kitchen earning 18 bucks an hour. i hate my life.
Chris24
I understand you are extremely upset, confused and seem like there is no hope. First figure out your finances as far as the house. This is your investment, do not get yourself in a hole you can't get out of.

Second, go see a shrink. I know people say it all the time, but talking to someone and letting out ALL of your feelings will ultimately help if you make the commitment to it. Here in the states there are certain doctors who accept insurance, so check it out to minimize the out of pocket expense.

One, last thing. I know it is always said but you are better off without her. How in the world would you be able to trust someone who could do this to you. Imagine if you were married....then she does what she did AND would have gotten half of everything you own. I really, really would consider you lucky that you found out now and not later.

When you are done healing you will see this....good luck and stay strong
doppleganger
hey dude, cant u understand simple n plain english

SHE HAS VERY POLITELY ASKED U TO LAY OFF, in short F%^& OFF

and u r going around getting opinions

dump her now and move on in life

u will find someone better and deserving
cavey
Sorry to hear that she lied to you. Giving you hope, and make you do all those things for nothing - just because she didn't have the guts to tell you the truth!

Just know that she was the one that had the greatest loss (you). She is way beyond what you deserve! Too bad you cant sue x-girlfriends for lost time and money!

Good luck with your life. I'm sure as you get over her, that you will find that you are much better off without her using you! Do not think that all other girls are the same! Maybe you will find the one some day. Who will love you without weird rules and conditions.
bjwok
heres some added info to the saga:

the whole bullet point list of negotiations that bec put forward way back at the start of this thread turned out to be her testing me to see how i would respond. she wanted me to have the balls to tell her where to go, but me being who i am, i was willing to negotiate with her and add my own terms.

she told me all this when i was there.

i cannot believe she put me through all that! why play games with someone who is being genuine!!!
bjwok
this last week i sent her a message asking if she was seeing this guy for real and she replied that she was. i sent her one final massive email abusing her like no end and then i went and deleted everything of her from my facebook as well as every number related to her from my phone.

i then went on a date with a girl who has come into the restaurant a couple of times and asked after me. i felt strong and i felt good to be on a date, even though i never wanted to be apart from bec. i have been forced into being single and here i am i guess!

then bec sends me a message asking if i really do hate her as much as i said and whether everything i said was what i meant because she made things up to hurt me. i said everything i said was true (and it was) and i was over it completely.

then she replies with one along the lines of "i am not really seeing this guy i only made it up to hurt you" etc. i replied whatever, i am over your head games and i don't believe her.
Flarkis
I agree with what most of these people are saying it seems as though she just does not want it to work. I see it as though she is almost trying to push you out of her life.

Sorry mate,
Markus
bjwok
yeah it certainly points that way. the fact i am now on the other side of the planet to her has made it clearer than ever i think.

such a waste!
adeydas
she doesn't want you. so dump her and move on... there's no point in continuing this relationship!!!
bjwok
did you even read the thread champ?
cavey
What?! She lied (about seing that guy) just to hurt you?!? Thats just mean! Usually when you break up with someone; if you have to lie - you do it because you don't want to hurt the other one. I can't believe she would even dare to admit it! Without knowing this person, I believe she is evil, and proud of it. You should be glad you found out, and got her out of your life (yes, I know she was the one to break up). Now you have to get her completelly out of your head and your heart, and do not be tempted to take her back if she suddenly should want to get back with you (probably just to dump you the week after when she have treated you more badly).

I get so angry when I hear about people like that. Treating other people like sh*t. Evil or Very Mad
bjwok
yeah man, that is what is the most hurtful about this whole thing. she lied about it.

she has also been making stuff up to hurt me: she has lied that she is still seeing this guy, she sent me a txt saying she made that all up to hurt me and she still loves me and misses me.

i said i can't believe u, you lie and cheat. and i am over your silly head games, they cost me to much of everything already.

i haven't heard back from her.
Flarkis
sorry mate. Woman can just be crewl.
bjwok
updated:

got a txt from her saying she thinks she is pregnant and she still loves me and wants me back.

this will change a lot, but i am thinking she is making it up, she seems to be good at making stuff up, i just don't get why. anyway she is going to see a doc on monday to confirm, but three home tests can't be wrong. what now?
ssthanapati
bjwok wrote:
updated:

got a txt from her saying she thinks she is pregnant and she still loves me and wants me back.

this will change a lot, but i am thinking she is making it up, she seems to be good at making stuff up, i just don't get why. anyway she is going to see a doc on monday to confirm, but three home tests can't be wrong. what now?


Pregnant or not!!! Y the heck wud u care!!! She dosent care for u. And all this love u thing seems a plan of her to hurt u more. Even if its not she deserves it!!!

If she really loved u she wouldn't have got u arrested.

Neways all the best dude. Hope u cope up with it soon.... And going out with some1 isin't really a great idea. I feel u shud give it some time. But u r really onto it then dont back off.
cavey
Why should you believe her? She lied so many times! If she really is pregnant, make her prove it (note from the doctor, an ultrasound picture or something). And do not pay any money before you have tested if it is yours. She may have been dumped by the real father, and now need someone to take care of them.
Hammy
Holy Cr*p ... I wish i'd gotten to this post by the first thread..!!
I really feel for you man!! You put your heart and soul into this and it's all gone!

From that first post, just reading what she had wrote.. There was something about it telling me that she didnt what to be with you, the rules were there to drive you away. I'd of said something then, but i;ve only just read it now. I feel as if i've seen it before myself. =[

If it was me i dont htink i'd of gotten off the plane, but you must really have loved to her to go back again.

She is one mixed up b!tch if u dont mind me saying lol, She is not ready for a commiment, i dont htink she kows what she want, I think she likes the attention and doesnt care what you go through to give her it. If she wants something, make her get it herself, dont be running around after her anymore.

Get a signed doctors note to say she's pregnant, How could she let that happen, she appeared to love yogo more than you. Her careea has gone now.

I dont know know what else to say... Let her contact you first, Let her do the running around, If she wants something.. make her get it.. she's not your responsibility anymore.
Better still.. come back to the UK and we can all go laugh at her misfortunes.. and point out her imperfections.. Make her feel as shit as she's made u feel..

Argg.. I hate her and i dont even know her!!!

Chin up though dude... Seriously, things can only get better. Im sure the girl you dated is a loverly lass, kind and honest! =]
furtasacra
bjwok wrote:
updated:

got a txt from her saying she thinks she is pregnant and she still loves me and wants me back.

this will change a lot, but i am thinking she is making it up, she seems to be good at making stuff up, i just don't get why. anyway she is going to see a doc on monday to confirm, but three home tests can't be wrong. what now?


OH. MY. GOD.

Three home tests can be LIED ABOUT, especially with you conveniently on another continent.

STAY AWAY! And for Pete's sake, don't send her any money. Do nothing. Wait. Wait nine months, to be precise. If she has a baby, and it's really yours, and DON'T take her word for it (can you say DNA test, boys and girls?) THEN deal with the situation.

I just don't believe she loves you, she just knows you're in love with her. Or were in love with her. If I were in your place, all the lying, cheating, and cruel manipulation would eventually destroy any warm feelings I once had.

I am SO sorry to hear how dreadfully this has all turned out for you. But here's my honest opinion: this relationship is doomed. If she really does end up having a baby that is actually yours, do the right thing and help with the bills, and be there for the kid, if you can, without this crazy chick ripping your heart out, but don't try to have a life with HER. There is no charming seaside cottage with a white picket fence and a happy little family in your future with this dishonest loony.

She's hurt you repeatedly, and you can't trust her. No matter how hard you try to let that stuff go, it's going to eat at you, and that would create a poisonous environment for a child to grow up in. Let go, man, let go.
bjwok
hi folks,

this is getting really frustrating in my opinion, bec has sent me a rather heartfelt email saying that she is so sorry and that she wished she could prove to me that she misses me and and loves me and all the rest. she also said that she woke up bleeding really heavily and that her body is rejecting the baby.

the thing is, i don't believe a word and i don't care either way. i have put her out of my head and my heart and am doing the best to move on with my life. i am dating someone else and the days when bec controlled a portion of my feelings is long gone.

and i feel GREAT!!!
cavey
Good to hear that you do not believe or care about her latest "stunt". Good luck with your dating and your new happy life :)
bjwok
yeah, and now she is saying that if she could afford it she would come to adelaide to beg my forgiveness, but the saying put your money where your mouth is comes to mind.

the thing is, i gave up my life, my job, risked my mortgage and went to another country for her, but now that it is down to it, she doesn't have the guts to do it for me. and that tells clearly who was putting what into the relationship in the first place!
Chris24
I am so glad for you upon hearing this news. I wish you well in life you seem like a nice person. Just learn from this and be careful...........Good luck Very Happy
bjwok
thanks champ. i have learnt a lot from this and with this new girl i am seeing i am keeping it very base level. it's casual and i am not going to open up too far to her for fear of wht happened with bec will happen again.
bjwok
update on the new girl: she called it off over xmas, she said her ex has been making contact with her and she just doesn't have the head space for something new. i appreciate her honesty and we said farewell. nice and clean. bit sad, but happy she was honest.
furtasacra
Been a while, hope you're alright now. Update?
Coen
I'm sorry for you but I think you should be glad she was honest and didn't make up an exuse. I hope you're doing better now.
bjwok
much much much better! i have met a beautiful dutch girl and we have been together for the last two months! she is smart, intelligent, honest and genuine. and 6 foot 2 with beautiful eyes and a massive smile! life is beautiful Smile
iyepes
Someone suggested before to visit a therapist. I think you still should do it. Finding another girl won't solve your problems. Life is beatiful, but it doesn't depends on the person you have besides. Work on yourself, heal yourself. When you love yourself enough you will be able to love someone else.

I really don't want to hear you repeat your story with a new girl.

take care.
bjwok
thanks for the nice words and kind advice champ. i think the thing that i needed to learn from bec is that people will let you down. i put her in such a high place (and believed in her) yet in the end she was no different to any other ex. she

i believe in giving everyone trust until they no longer deserve it. bec had full trust from me and she spat on it. the period where i got to my lowest was the way i dealt with her lack of heart. i knew this at the time and i know it now. it was me going through the steps that i needed to go through.

i went to a shrink and i learnt that simply this girl was not the one for me. she needed something i was offering at the time and i needed what she was offering. as soon as the need no longer existing from her, she allowed me to see who she really was. i never changed my needs and i never changed who i was, but she did.

i no longer need what she is (or was) as i have found it with someone else.
JohnCarlo
This is one of the best topic i read here. Thanks for sharing it pal and thanks for all the wonderful contributors. This thread really helps other not to be in this same situation.

In my own, I had learned from this thread that we must be sincere and be honest at all times, most especially to the people whom we have commitment. Furthermore Love is more than feeling, it is a decision, and we can never force our love and friendship to everyone.

I hope you are doing well now! God Bless You!
furtasacra
Well, I'm glad things are looking up for you! (Hey, if she's that tall, you probably can't HELP but look up, LOL)

Take care of yourself.
supjapscrapper
hey, she is asking for a hell of a lot of things biddy.... I would be you, I would figure out 3 to 4 reasonable conditions myself, and let her know that she counts to you, that you are ready to gi it a try, because you understand that she has issues with herself and she needs to find a solution to that bny herself. She a grown-up woman and she should manage to do that. She should know you are not advd or a playstation game she gets out only when she wants to have some spevccial fun and is done with her mates. finally, tell her that you agree and that you'll bne very busy yourself in London. Find yourself some friends and get busy. If possible a couple of very beautiful women (I know in England it is hard but try Very Happy) it'll help wake up her jealousy again. and do some sport and find out some activities to show her you are very busy too. Give her a break of 1 to 2 weeks every once in a while. make sure you don't lose her by being completely normal about the situation, kepp some of the flame, be nice, nice words. No gift or whatsoever, she'll tzhink you're the needy one and she needs spacve and air and she needs to get rid of you.
bjwok
c'mon champ - did you even read the other posts? it's over - i am over her and on the other side now!
jcvincent75
Okay. What your girl friend was trying to say is that 'I don't want to see you anymore.' She just kinda made it longer though.

It's okay. You will be able to move on with that. Stay cool.

Cheers!
bjwok
yeah i can see that clearly now. and i am WAY over her anyway. she was liar and a cheat. who needs that!
jilbs
hi. This is my first time to go to this thread and i had fun reading it. its been almost 2 years since this thread was last updated. but its worth the read. =) i learned one thing too. "No matter what happens, life must go on"

i wonder how bjwok is doing now. hmm.
zbale
Added after reading the whole thread: OOps! just realized it's all over. Still, I'm leaving my message below for the next person in the same situation (and boy, aren't there some).

bjwok wrote:

4. There may be weeks where we donít see each other, and sometimes you may have to settle for tagging along while I do the grocery shopping if you want to spend time with me that badly.
6. I love my mates & like to see them each at least once or twice a week. This means a lot of late nights, sometimes sleepovers if the tube is out. Again, no jealousy.


Sounds like a "F you" note. There's a limit to how low you can get on your knees when somebody makes requirements (which is already kind of contemptuous I think). If we are talking about you trying to save your 20 year marriage, maybe consider it. If not, I would move on. You sound like a nice guy and you don't need to be trampled upon in this way. I am sure other people will be willing to have a relationship with you based on collaborative communication, not on ultimatums. In any case, London is not a bad place to be and whatever happens, you can always be grateful to her that she enabled you to get there (on the other hand, if you feel you don't need to go there, that's perfectly legitimate too).

Good luck.
smit_alumni
Dude seems your girlfriend was trying to live by the world war 2 like rules between two allied countries. it's love you say, so there there should not be any boundry between the both of you. you should be able to see her when ever you want or where ever you want. if she values her friends(other guys) more than you then i think it's time you thought about what you are putting yourself through. and the worst of all, one sides love is terribly painful. BEST OF LUCK MATE HOPE YOU FIGURE THINGS OUT FOR YOURSELF.
bjwok
hi guys Smile

wow, i've just re-read this entire thread and seeing as tho we were talking so openly and freely before about my relationship i thought it only fair to update you all.

first things first: bec is completely non-existent in my life as of whenever that last mention of her back in the pages before was (i think 2 years ago?) i do wonder how she is doing or what she is doing from time to time, however that curiosity is purely curiosity of the mind and nothing from my heart.

the dutch girl didn't work out: she was in adelaide doing a research project as part of her degree to be a doctor and after the project was completed she returned to amsterdam and we broke up. to be honest, i was very upset and had a period where i couldn't let her go (do i see a thread here?!! haha) however that didn't last too long. the bec saga equipped me with what i needed for this one and i (almost) cut her loose as soon as i could.

so, since then i have been single and chasing my career as a photographer, which is ironically something that bec kinda spurred initially. i've been successful to a certain level landing some big clients, cover shoots and weddings. and have focused all my attentions on my clients and my work. take a squizz at my portfolio here: http://www.bjwok.com/ and also my (recently) commenced photography forums here: http://www.friendlyphotographyforums.com/ adelaide has been an amazing city to make my mark in this field and when you think about it, it was bec and her demented take on love that brought me here! cheers bec!

i did manage to keep my property in sydney after all the concern with not being able to make mortgage and now have great tenants in there and it's all looked after by an agent, so no worrying from my end.

things have gone very well for me here in adelaide and over the last two years i'd saved a lot and then bought another investment unit here. i was initially scared to purchase another on a single income, however something about it felt right, so i did it! the place has already gone up in value and the tenants are reliable and again, it's looked after by and agent, so no worries mate!

just last month i also bought myself a place of my own that i am renovating. it's a one bedder with a larger lounge space and a nice ling balcony, two streets from the beach at henley beach (google it!) i plan to have a semi permanent studio set-up within this place to work from. in a few weeks it will be ready to move into Smile

and as you wouldn't believe i've met a really amazing woman Smile

i'd seen her at gigs (she's a photographer too) and we had passed a few comments here and there, but it wasn't until we were both shooting The Swell Season that we really hit a connection. she is really centered in her life and is genuine about her feeling towards me. we've spoken in depth about what concerns we have within relationships and i feel confident both of us will not intentionally hurt each other. we've been seeing each other for about 3 months now and there's nothing missing from our relationship! it's amazing!!

-------------

So.... to sum this entire thread up, i'd like to thank everyone who did post comments/suggestions. i assure you i read each and every one and i took everything on board when i was going through that rather ugly part of my life. so thank you sooo much!!!

from here on in i think there is nothing to add except that life is an adventure: i truly believe mine has been!!
bjwok
additional: just did a quick google search on bec and came up with her site: http://www.bexy.com.au/ seems like she may be still over in europe somewhere.

-----

just wanted to also add that i only did that search out of curiosity! i have no intention of anything more than hearty curiosity! believe me!!! Smile
zbale
Hey bjwok,

I'm one of those half-wits who gave you great advice with five years' delay Smile

First of all, thanks for the update, this whole thread is really a great, unexpected story and I hope you're saving it somewhere: I bet it's going to be a fantastic read for you, your kids and grand-kids in the future.

Second, I just checked out your website and it's pretty cool. I'm only an amateur but I think you're good. Also, your marketing strategy seems very sound and corresponds (I guess) to an era where people want to participate more in whatever process there is (here, printing or organizing the album as they wish - and of course that saves time, energy, and cuts down on cost, something to learn there). I liked the magazine covers very much.

Keep going !
soljarag
whoa, this was an interesting thread to read.... it was like a movie Smile

Its crazy what that first girl did to you .....Glad to hear things all worked out.....
bjwok
thanks zbale Smile

appreciate the nice words in regards to my photography. it must be said (and i'll be changing this soon on my NEW website) that i do also provide prints where requested. it's amazing the amount of people asking for canvas prints! they look BEAUTIFUL too!!

thanks soal, yeah bec was a complete nutter. all things being equal tho: i was just as much of a nutter!!
smit_alumni
Guys we spent so much of our time reading the post but never noticed the amount of time this topic has spent on the board!! Lol!! anyways cheers freehosters!
gandalfthegrey
She is either very independent or she is not in love with you.

In either case, I think her demands are reasonable. Though you might want to reconsider if you don't think she shares the same feelings you do.
bjwok
and without sounding harsh, you may want to read the thread before posting a reply?
bjwok
not sure what that means?
zbale
I love this post! It should be voted best post of the decade :)

By the way, what size of canvas do people usually go for? Do you do the printing yourself or subcontract it (is it a special machine)?
bjwok
post of the decade? haha! maybe not... lol!

thanks buddy. most people buy a minimum size of 1meter wide. i subcontract to a fello photog in sydney (who i actually grew up with, so the quality and price is A+)

which pic takes your fancy?
andysart380
reading your initial post...it sounds like this girl wants to have some "play" room if you know what i mean...she wants you to be her pet...if you don't really love her don't throw away your goals trying to make her happy
zbale
And it just keeps on going Smile

One picture of yours I liked very much is on your blog, it's a picture of (four I think) musicians on the stairs of what looks like a 19th Century or early 20th Century train station, with a kind of vintage processing. Don't know if you see what I'm talking about, but I was wondering what lighting arrangement you had used, was really a great picture (maybe you can repost it here actually so that everybody sees what I'm talking about).

I think I was impressed in general by your group pictures, less so by the more "glamour" stuff but I guess it's really hard to produce anything nearing perfection -- or at least achieving a strong sense of balance -- in that area (probably because, paradoxically, it's so technical and yet one has to totally transcend technique to make it work).

How's your work going these days?
bjwok
thanks buddy Smile

I think the shot you are referring to is this one of Lowrider:


The lighting on this was a single speedlite just out of frame to camera right shot through umbrella, mounted on a light stand.

That is actually part of Adelaide train station (albeit not a used section of the station) and it was begging for a shoot!!

Work is going great!! Always busy. Too busy in fact! I've said farewell to 8 hours sleep every night. I pretty much only get 6, even on weekends! But I love it!!!
mk12327
I read the post right from the first to the last, and I'm glad you are doing real great right now!

I do agree with many of them that this is one of the best read in Frihost. Here are some points I noticed:

1. Some people just don't read all the posts and give comments / replies indiscriminately (Of course, i was referring to those who posts years after the incident is over, not those who gave good advice back then)

2. Your experience was tough, real, but hopefully it can be helpful for many others who might go through something similar in future. The best way to learn something is to experience it first hand, but usually very painful, at least at the point in time when it happened. I'm sure many who gave you advice back then had something in the past that carries a certain degree of similarities and didn't want you to suffer the same pain.

3. You are a very loyal and genuine person as seen not only because of your devotion to bec in the past, but also your devotion to this forum and to the people who posted here. You constantly gave updates whenever you could so that people could continue to comment / help. How many actually post a question / problem here and came back to update the rest? How many did try to address most of the comments? At least you did.

4. Frihost has a rather small community compared to many other forums, but there are a handful who are always around, trying their best to help others. zbale and apple are a few good examples.

Cheers, and all the best to all.
zbale
bjwok wrote:
thanks buddy :)

I think the shot you are referring to is this one of Lowrider:


The lighting on this was a single speedlite just out of frame to camera right shot through umbrella, mounted on a light stand.

That is actually part of Adelaide train station (albeit not a used section of the station) and it was begging for a shoot!!

Work is going great!! Always busy. Too busy in fact! I've said farewell to 8 hours sleep every night. I pretty much only get 6, even on weekends! But I love it!!!


Awesome! exactly the shot I was referring to. The location is great indeed, out of this world. The lighting is very effective, congratulations!

And great to hear business is good. Keep posting!

PS: in case you're following other people's work, you may want to check out a couple of photographers I discovered recently, I love their work, great source of inspiration: http://ninamullinsphotography.com
zbale
mk12327 wrote:

4. Frihost has a rather small community compared to many other forums, but there are a handful who are always around, trying their best to help others. zbale and apple are a few good examples.


Thanks, pal, it goes for you too :)

Cheers.
bjwok
i here as much as i can - but dividing my time between shooting and forums is difficult Sad
zbale
bjwok wrote:
i here as much as i can - but dividing my time between shooting and forums is difficult :(


Actually I was wondering: do you have an idea of the amount of time you spend post-processing when you're working on a shoot? I know some photographers make sure they control as much a possible beforehand and shoot JPEG to save time, and I understand their point but I just don't know how they do. Do you have one way of working or does it depend what you're shooting?
bjwok
i spend about 1 hour in post on any given shoot.

i do have a "sequence" or workflow that i follow, but it kinda changes for every shoot.

i'd never EVER shoot JPG as it's a lossy compression and most of the the time (not all) i need to be able to supply my clients with high res files. you cannot upsize from a jpeg.
zbale
bjwok wrote:
i spend about 1 hour in post on any given shoot.

i do have a "sequence" or workflow that i follow, but it kinda changes for every shoot.

i'd never EVER shoot JPG as it's a lossy compression and most of the the time (not all) i need to be able to supply my clients with high res files. you cannot upsize from a jpeg.


Wow, I'm actually impressed at your efficiency. How many pics do you reckon you shoot on average per shoot?

I never shoot JPEG either but that's because I'm not good enough (yet) at controlling the shot anyway... too much "saving" to do later on Confused
bjwok
i guess it depends on the shoot:

for glamour i would shoot around 250-300 shots, but for a gig i would shoot about 160-200 max (narrowing that down to 9 or so for the final cull is pretty hard!!)

yeah with RAW you can really save a poorly exposed shot, much more so than JPG Smile
macky
at first you will notice that there are some changes but you should remind her that you are still there

and you should actually talk to her directly to know what is really the problem to have a best solution...
bjwok
at first you should read the thread!! this is about 4 years old and the circumstances have changed A LOT since then!!!
zbale
bjwok wrote:
i guess it depends on the shoot:

for glamour i would shoot around 250-300 shots, but for a gig i would shoot about 160-200 max (narrowing that down to 9 or so for the final cull is pretty hard!!)

yeah with RAW you can really save a poorly exposed shot, much more so than JPG Smile


Yeah, I see.

Have you posted anywhere about your workflow? I've made progress lately, batch-processing what I can and all, but it still feels so slow Smile
bjwok
nah i haven't done a step by step of my workflow yet. it's something i will be doing soon over at my site - but first up i am thinking of a tutorial for adding logos from illustrator into photoshop without using a plugin. stay tuned Smile
zbale
Sounds great. I still have to figure out how to use the functionality in Lightroom (you can use an image it seems, instead of text, to watermark your pictures and that can actually be batch-processed, which is really cool, but I still have to see how you do that -- in particular, I first have to design a logo. I guess just as you're not a superhero until you have a costume, you're no photographer until you have a logo Laughing ).

Speaking of which, your logo is pretty cool I think.

So far I've just used text to watermark my pictures but the possibility to batch-process this (it's actually an option very conveniently integrated in the export menu) is fantastic.
bjwok
yeah i heard that lightroom has new capabilities to do this. i don't like the sharpen in lightroom, and finish everything in photoshop so i'll stick with that process for the time being!
makathebear05
Not at all..
bjwok
huh? what was that in reference to?
vibedynamite
She seems like bad news to me, man. I'm not really sure how you treat her, but if you are really good to her, then she's just a b*tch. And, in that case, you might as well just forget about her now.

If you don't, she'll just keep dragging you on a string ten miles behind her. She seems heartless. Your best bet is to just quit talking to her.

Honestly, if you quit talking to her, maybe she'll feel some space and want you. If you get another girl, she'll definitely get jealous and want you. But I wouldn't recommend getting another girl just to get back with the first one. That's also heartless.

Good luck to you, and sometimes getting your heart broken isn't a bad thing.
bjwok
thanks for the words buddy, but the situation has changed (a lot!) since the first post - read the whole thread again and you will see where things have taken me know Smile it's quite interesting!
zbale
bjwok wrote:
yeah i heard that lightroom has new capabilities to do this. i don't like the sharpen in lightroom, and finish everything in photoshop so i'll stick with that process for the time being!


As "sharpen in Lr", do you refer to the "clarity" levels (or whatever they're called in English, I'm using a French version of the software, it's the levels right above "vibrance" and "saturation")?

In Ps, do you use the "unsharpen" mask or something else?


Just had a look at your website, hadn't checked it out in a long time. First of all, way to go, I love its looks, especially the upper part with the flash loop.

Also, I like the kind of sharpening you apply: strong enough to make it slightly hyperreal (which, in my opinion, is great for band photography), yet not so strong that it would go over the board (as a number of photographers do). I guess your style is very true to the rule that the best effects (whether in terms of sharpening, color adjustment, etc.) are those you don't identify immediately as effects: they give the whole picture its flavor without stealing the show.

Re the website again, I thought, maybe too many pictures before one reaches the bottom part with its menus and all. But I don't know.

Keep going!
bjwok
thanks buddy Smile

nah i was referring to the "sharpening" section )in particular the "amount" and "radius" sliders in lightroom 3, which are pretty similar to the photoshop equivalent, but for my workflow i find it better to handle it in photoshop (and i like the results better too)

yep, the unsharpen in photoshop is what i use Smile i hardly apply any to my shots tho, as long as i hit the focus on the head then i find they are ok. of course, with a reduction in pixels, i ALWAYS sharpen Smile

thanks again for the nice words re my site and work Smile

cheers bud
zbale
Wow, I definitely have to check out the "sharpening" section, is this the one right above the noise reduction levels? (So far I was using the "clarity" levels.)

Btw, do you happen to know why we need to sharpen when reducing? What about printing? Do you "sharpen" differently depending on the size of your prints?
bjwok
nah man, the sharpen is under the "detail" tab (further down)

the reason we sharpen when reducing pixels is because you are removing pixels (and hence colours, tones etc) that used to contain contrast between themselves.

sharpen for print depends on the print size intended.
zbale
bjwok wrote:
nah man, the sharpen is under the "detail" tab (further down)

the reason we sharpen when reducing pixels is because you are removing pixels (and hence colours, tones etc) that used to contain contrast between themselves.

sharpen for print depends on the print size intended.


Ok, now I get it. When sharpening, do you use any ratio depending on the original and final sizes of the picture?
bjwok
nah no special ratios at all.
zbale
Ok, so I just tried sharpening but I still have to see the difference between sharpening and clarity levels. On the face of it they seem to have pretty much the same effect.
bjwok
that's why i sharpen in photoshop Smile
zbale
bjwok wrote:
that's why i sharpen in photoshop Smile


Got it. I'll have to buy that piece of software someday Smile
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