I want to know your oppinion about halloween parties...
what do you think about it?
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In my country, some fanatic group of people have been in radios and other massive communication media, with a wrong message, making people believe halloween is a bad thing, just because of it's pagan roots, what do you think about that?
Last edited by ronald.helpdesk on Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:48 pm; edited 2 times in total
It's not that they're bad, but actually, I don't think they are really "useful". I mean, holidays are too often used as reasons to drink too much or things like that.
I enjoy Halloween. Not for candy, not for parties, I just love the eerie spirit in the air. You can feel the tension, you can see the leaves changing, and Halloween is such a captivating holiday; at least for me.
I enjoy the feeling of being scared (to some extent); so this is the perfect time of the year! And, it's always fun to be someone who you aren't for a day. Me and a few of my friends (who would probably be labelled as preps by many) went "goth" for the day. It's been really fun!
And hey, everyone needs a drink now and then! Cheers!
I freakin' LOVE Hallowe'en parties! I attended one already, and I plan to attend one more! It's great! People get to dress up in whatever they want, party with a bunch of people and have a purely ridiculous time!
I think Hallowe'en is one of the few nights when people can be as crazy as they possibly want without the fear of social ramifications and strange looks. (Well, you might get the strange looks, but that may be what you're going for)
Hallowe'en is necessary because it gets us to check ourselves and to not take ourselves too seriously, which I think is a problem in our society right now.
What does this have to do with religion or philosophy??? 
| liljp617 wrote: |
| What does this have to do with religion or philosophy??? |
Halloween or "All Hallows eve" was marked on various pagan (read pre-christian) calendars as being at a time of year when spirits could reach the real world. Over time this has got lost although the christian All Saints Day (the day after) is still marked on the christian calendar as it has changed over the years. | liljp617 wrote: |
| What does this have to do with religion or philosophy??? :?: |
there is, in deed a religious background to this, read this:
"The Celtic year began November 1 of our calendar, which was also the start of winter, so the Samhain festival included winter preparations for the flocks of this pastoral people. Find out more about the origins of the Celtic Halloween celebration. "
"Some modern Halloween traditions developed out of older pagan traditions, especially surrounding the Irish holiday Samhain, a day associated both with the harvest and otherworldly spirits. Irish and Scottish immigrants carried versions of the tradition to North America in the nineteenth century. Other western countries embraced the holiday in the late twentieth century. Halloween is now celebrated in several parts of the Western world, most commonly in Ireland, the United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, and the United Kingdom and occasionally in parts of Australia and New Zealand.
Many European cultural traditions, in particular Celtic cultures, hold that Halloween is one of the liminal times of the year when spirits can make contact with the physical world, and when magic is most potent (according to, for example, Catalan mythology about witches and Scottish and Irish tales of the Sํdhe)" (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
I recommend you this one to read of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween#Religious_perspectives
there you can get the meaning of my question....Well it appears the thread title was changed since I made my post. I also didn't see what he had written under the dashed line because it appeared to be part of his sig. So..basically I didn't see the word pagan at all when I made that post :O
| ronald.helpdesk wrote: |
| In my country, some fanatic group of people have been in radios and other massive communication media, with a wrong message, making people believe halloween is a bad thing, just because of it's pagan roots, what do you think about that? |
Then they must have the same bad feelings towards Christmas, Easter, and several other Christian holidays... most of them are borrowed and modified from pagan holidays... and many of the events they are based upon (Birth/death/resurrection of Jesus) have been shifted to occur on, or near, the traditional pagan holidays, which were centered on the sun and moon.
Christmas happens very near, for example, Yule, the shortest day of the year, and an important pagan holiday (the return of the sun and the lengthening of daylight hours)... many Christmas traditions are based on pagan traditions... To Christians, it is the birth of Jesus (a sun representation himself) on Dec. 25... yet evidence suggests Jesus was born in late September and that the use of Dec. 25 as Jesus' birthday to coincide with pagan traditions to make conversion easier dates to Pope Gregory I... does that make Christmas a bad thing??
Easter is much the same... it uses all kinds of pagan symbols of rebirth, fertility and new beginnings, such as rabbits and eggs, and falls around (via a lunar cycle) the time of of the spring equinox, which is a symbolic time of renewal in several pagan faiths... is it coincidence that Easter, a celebration of renewal is around this time as well?? Is it a bad thing that there is pagan symbolism used in this Christian celebration??
I would argue that Christianity borrowing so many aspects of pagan celebration is not a bad thing... and it would seem that the Church agrees too.
Hallowe'en, however, has no significance to Christianity; it's pretty much just a secular holiday for Christians. Sure, it has a fair bit of importance to pagans, but what does that mean for Christians? Nothing whatsoever. Why should Christians care?
If having holidays having pagan roots is offensive to Christians, perhaps they should stop celebrating holidays all together. Almost all of them borrow some pagan traditions.If it not goes too far I don't see very much wrong with halloweenparties. It is a holiday which we can enjoy and I can't say that the things they usually are doing at the parties (by my knowledge) are worser than what often happens at regulary parties.
As a pagan, I cellebrate the religious and social side of Samhain, which is celtic, not just Irish. Many believe this is the most important festival of the celtic year, I most certainly do. It has so many aspects to it. It's the last harvest of the year. It was the time when animals were brought in from their summer grazing and decisions had to be had about which animals to slaughter and which ones to keep as breeding stock. Those watching the herds and flocks hadn't seen their families for a long time, so this was a great social event. The veil between the worlds is at it's thinnest at this time, making it easier for the ancestors to visit, so they are made welcome. It's nice having a time to remember family and friends who had died in the last year. Bonfires were lit, and the bones of those who had died in the last year were often put on the bon(e)fire.
I've always find it amusing that some Christians complain about Halloween while us Pagans have no objections. The Christian Church moved All Saints Day to November 1st in an effort to persuade the people to stop cellebrating Samhain. As Ankhanu pointed out, Christian festivals were taken from the Pagans to begin with, so they have no right to complain. Christianity isn't the one and only religion so has no right to dictate what people should cellebrate.
I just read somewhere that a school, in the US, had decided to "close down" its celebration of halloween, because they did not want to offend the Wiccan community. The last time I checked, Wiccans didn't seem to care much about Halloween at all. Strange, uh?
Me myself, as a Pagan, celebrate the peak of Autumn. And I think it's sort of great even that the Halloween tradition has come to my country, of course we could have left the pumkins behind and used our mythical creatures instead, but this way it forces the school to learn the children a little bit religious and non-religious history. In my Spanish class the other day, we talked about the Mexican/ Latin American customs of these days (31. oct-2. Nov), and a little bit about the orgin of Halloween as well. I think it's simply great 
| Quote: |
I just read somewhere that a school, in the US, had decided to "close down" its celebration of halloween, because they did not want to offend the Wiccan community. The last time I checked, Wiccans didn't seem to care much about Halloween at all. Strange, uh?
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A similar thing is happening here in the UK where Christian traditions are cancelled so as not to offend Muslims. If the Wiccan community is like the UK Wiccans they wouldn't be offended by Halloween celebrations. I'm not a Wiccan myself but I've met up with some at festivals. It's strange that this Wiccan community doesn't care about Halloween/Samhain as it is such an important festival.
| Quote: |
| In my Spanish class the other day, we talked about the Mexican/ Latin American customs of these days (31. oct-2. Nov), and a little bit about the orgin of Halloween as well. I think it's simply great |
Most countries in the northern hemisphere would have had some sort of custom at this time of year. It's a shame that so many have been allowed to die out.I am not a Christian (as such... I do think there are some good arguments for it as well as against, but let's not go into that now) but I did come across this passage (1 Corinthians 8 ) the other day as I was looking up something completely different. I think it might offer some insight into the Christian position on Hallowe'en:
| 1 Corinthians 8, NIV wrote: |
Food Sacrificed to Idols
1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the man who loves God is known by God.
4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
7But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall. |
It is not a direct parallel, but I think it's fairly close. I would interpret this as meaning 'if you're a Christian, it's okay to go to Hallowe'en parties, so long as you're clear about the reasons your going (i.e. to socialise; not in celebration of pagan gods/debauchery) and you're not going to end up confusing anyone/yourself about your beliefs'.
But, of course, you can prove almost anything with the right biblical quote. 
| Quote: |
| 'if you're a Christian, it's okay to go to Hallowe'en parties, so long as you're clear about the reasons your going (i.e. to socialise; not in celebration of pagan gods/debauchery |
As a pagan I find your choice of the word "debauchery" offensive. I can assure, this celebration has got nothing to do with debauchery. Your bible quote shows you don't understand paganism. As this is a Celtic Pagan celebration, this is the paganism we need to consider. I'm not aware of any Celtic Pagan religion that uses idols.
Did you know Christians took the act of communion from the pagans? We have communion at the end of a religious ceremony where thanks is given for our food and we ask for a blessing on it.
When the ceremony is held outside the food and drink is first offered to Earth Mother. We know that when we leave the site the animals will eat the offering.
Pagans are very aware of where our food comes from. Those of us who eat meat normally thank the animal for its sacrifice. When we give thanks for our food, we thank not only Earth Mother, or the Goddess, but also the elements and the people involved in producing our food. Not an idol in sight.
One point that seems to be forgotten is that to pagans this is first and formost a spiritual festival. We don't go trick or treating, at least, not in the UK. Halloween is for non-pagans, Samhain is the pagan festival.Idol in the Christian context does not mean a statue or something, it means any kind of religious figure outside of God itself.
The God/Goddess, the Earth (deified), etc, are, in this context, idols.
Out of curiosity, what pagan faith do you subscribe to, woundedhealer? Don't think I'm attacking or anything, I'm just genuinely curious; I'm essentially agnostic myself and have had some serious interest in pagan religions over the years. I just ask due to how vague "pagan" is, seeing as it covers all but 3 religions (ie. the Judeo-Christian complex of Judaism, Christianity and Islam).
| Ankhanu wrote: |
Idol in the Christian context does not mean a statue or something, it means any kind of religious figure outside of God itself.
The God/Goddess, the Earth (deified), etc, are, in this context, idols.
Out of curiosity, what pagan faith do you subscribe to, woundedhealer? Don't think I'm attacking or anything, I'm just genuinely curious; I'm essentially agnostic myself and have had some serious interest in pagan religions over the years. I just ask due to how vague "pagan" is, seeing as it covers all but 3 religions (ie. the Judeo-Christian complex of Judaism, Christianity and Islam). |
Some pagans believe their are multiple gods/goddess's while some believe they are all different aspects of The One. If The One an idol then God is an idol because they are the same. Earth an idol?
I find Christian ideas very strange.
Paganism is the indigenous religion of a nation, tribe, etc. This would be the nature-based religions, so there are far more than 3 reigions which aren't pagan. As I study other indigenous religions I'm finding there are many similarities. I'm a Druid, which is similar to shamans and medicine men.First of all, Halloween was not stolen by Christians. They moved holidays around the year to be more in line with pagan holidays. Why? My guess is that they did it to ease the transition from paganism into Christianity.
After all, my Church was built in the 1800s and it is in the shape of a twelve-pointed sun, which is considered by many to be a pagan symbol.
Christians do not generally celebrate "Halloween." Raised Roman Catholic, we have "All Hallows Eve", which is just preperation for the two Holy Days which follow: All Saint's Day and All Soul's Day. You see, "hallow" means sacred, so in this context we are merely preparing for sacred celebration of those who've gone into the afterlife, presumably into Heaven, to be specific.
I celebrate the social side of Halloween, the decorating and costumes, the candy and the parties, but I do not feel that it is of much (if any) religious importance to myself.
... But I don't condemn the religious side at all.
| ronald.helpdesk wrote: |
I want to know your oppinion about halloween parties...
what do you think about it?
-----------
In my country, some fanatic group of people have been in radios and other massive communication media, with a wrong message, making people believe halloween is a bad thing, just because of it's pagan roots, what do you think about that? |
It's all in fun. If people want to dress up in costumes and make fools out of theirselves it's their choice. Those people are just spoiled sports that feel that they need to press their religious beliefs on everyone else even though your country most likely is not a theocracy or fundamentalist.
| Quote: |
| Christians do not generally celebrate "Halloween." Raised Roman Catholic, we have "All Hallows Eve", which is just preperation for the two Holy Days which follow: All Saint's Day and All Soul's Day. You see, "hallow" means sacred, so in this context we are merely preparing for sacred celebration of those who've gone into the afterlife, presumably into Heaven, to be specific. |
LMAO! 
Die-hard, conservative Christians probably do not celebrate Halloween as I know it, but I have yet to see a nonchristian person (besides myself) in my neighborhood, and everyone from the two year olds to the high schoolers do candy runs. I used to do candy runs when I was a Roman Catholic, and nobody cared. I don't even think my mother even knew that "All Hallows Eve" even existed! There isn't anyone except for my stick-up-her-ass Christian aunt that disliked halloween because of religious reasons. Personally I just hate random people showing up at my house asking for free candy, so I just stopped doing it and now I have a little more free time.As far as I remember, Halloween isn't a Pagen holiday. It was originally a Catholic holiday known as "All Saints Day", meant for worshiping dead saints.
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First of all, Halloween was not stolen by Christians. They moved holidays around the year to be more in line with pagan holidays. Why? My guess is that they did it to ease the transition from paganism into Christianity.
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A lot to do with paganism was incorperated into the Christan religion because the pagans who were persuaded to change to Christianity would not relinquish their pagan beliefs. As you say, All Hallows Eve was moved to coincide with Samhain in the mistaken belief that people would turn to the Christian festival. Samhain was too ingrained in the people to let go of their old ways.
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| Christians do not generally celebrate "Halloween." ........ I celebrate the social side of Halloween, the decorating and costumes, the candy and the parties |
That's a contradiction. You say you're Cathlolic and you celebrate halloween. You're not on your own, loads of Christians celebrate halloween. This is no different to non-Christians celebrating Christmas. Serious pagans do not celebrate halloween, we celebrate Samhain, I don't know of any pagans who celebrate Halloween in the way non-pagans do. People have the right to celebrate at this time in any way they want.
The fact still remains, halloween has been hijacked by non-pagans.I think christians/catholics/monotheists take things like halloween too seriously and tend to demonify them because they see anything outside of God as evil, when it has nothign to do with their God at all. On that note, halloween is great as it marks the changing of the seasons and is the center for many religions outside of catholicism and whatnot. Halloween parties are awesome, i love dressing up and going out and seeing beautiful women dressing up or dressing down. People who think it's just an excuse to party obviously don't have any parties to go to otherwise they'd have a lot of fun. Yes people use it as an excuse to drink but who cares? As long as they get to work and do their job and whatever else they got going, it's fine by me and should be by everyone else.
| Soulfire wrote: |
First of all, Halloween was not stolen by Christians. They moved holidays around the year to be more in line with pagan holidays. Why? My guess is that they did it to ease the transition from paganism into Christianity.
After all, my Church was built in the 1800s and it is in the shape of a twelve-pointed sun, which is considered by many to be a pagan symbol.
Christians do not generally celebrate "Halloween." Raised Roman Catholic, we have "All Hallows Eve", which is just preperation for the two Holy Days which follow: All Saint's Day and All Soul's Day. You see, "hallow" means sacred, so in this context we are merely preparing for sacred celebration of those who've gone into the afterlife, presumably into Heaven, to be specific.
I celebrate the social side of Halloween, the decorating and costumes, the candy and the parties, but I do not feel that it is of much (if any) religious importance to myself.
... But I don't condemn the religious side at all. |
Oh that is such a load of crap! The majority of Christians do in fact celebrate Halloween (even if they don't know what it's for). And I'm pretty sure that decorating and costumes, candy and parties, are considered celebrating Halloween. Period. Probably the only Christians they don't celebrate it are the die-hard "if you do you'll go to hell" and don't let women wear pants, or cut their hair short, and no sex before marriage Christians.i have a friend of the family who doesnt celebrate halloween. The mothers idea mainly, she sais their neighbor got possesed by the devil, so she wont celebrate it incase the same happens to them.
:O
