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Why go to school or university





Possum
Hi

Why go to school or university.

I am self taught computer and programming. I'm totally confident I can earn an income from my skills. I can't see the use of formal learning at all.. Apart from learning for entertainment reasons. Maybe when you are old. Then a university course might be interesting..

PS I'm glad my doctor and dentist went to uni... And the person who build the plane I flew in.. But there are zillions of jobs especially in the computer and information fields where on the job learning is really the only way to progress.

Your thoughts please...
otiscom
It's the only way to get intervied by most companies.

If you haven't completed a formal education, witch proves you are disaplined and up to the required standard, you 'aint got a chance.

On the other hand I am sure you will get on in life but you may find it a bit harder.

Good luck.
MrBlueSky
If a company needs to hire new personal, they want good ones. Now, if ten people get an interview, and they all say: 'I am good', how does that company know if they are indeed good at their job? Now, if one of these ten has a degree, then the company knows chances are very high this person indeed is good and knows what he is doing.

A degree is just another proof of your capabilities. But of course there are professions in which a degree is less important then in others.
ftv_flung
There's always the Open University -try their website
AftershockVibe
Why not go to school or college? If you're capable of studying by yourself as you say you are then why not just use the extra help?

The problem that you'll face when looking for employers is that without the accreditation of a school, college or university they have no way of knowing what you can actually do.

Learning isn't just about knowledge either, if you're at university then you're surrounded by people who have similar interests and different ideas about how to do things. Aside from the social aspect, there's a lot of things you simply cannot learn from a book.
Possum
I once got a $50 per hr job simply because a big company needed my skills with a multimedia app..That was 10 years ago and things have changed.. But I'm going to try again..

will keep you informed...

I think someones employment should be determined by there understanding of what that work environment is.

I program custom web tools. If you can point me to a education course on that I'll be very impressed..

Cheers Possum
Azmo
you can learn it all by yourself, but there is almost no one that manage to learn it all from just sitting by them selves,, and I'm not talking about a programing language or a software, but the whole thing, how to work in an agency, how to work in a group, with other people, what things you are suposed to do, working with clients in a real big project worth hundreds of thousands of dolars.. some manage to do it, but they are very few..

on the other hand, alot of schools claims that they can teach a lot about this industri, not true tho,, some schools can, and when you find them, you realy understand and values that education.. don't be cocky, keep looking for something that suits you or you won't last long in this business...
bukaida
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kerryworkman
Possum wrote:
Hi

Why go to school or university.

I am self taught computer and programming. I'm totally confident I can earn an income from my skills. I can't see the use of formal learning at all.. Apart from learning for entertainment reasons. Maybe when you are old. Then a university course might be interesting..

PS I'm glad my doctor and dentist went to uni... And the person who build the plane I flew in.. But there are zillions of jobs especially in the computer and information fields where on the job learning is really the only way to progress.

Your thoughts please...


I deffinately understand what you are saying and to some extent agree with you. I am an artist, so how much can a formal education really teach me??? Actually a whole lot .... not through the coursework but through the interaction with other like minded students. It is amazing to me that you can have 30 people work on the same assignment and none of them end up looking simular. In addition to that each one has a different critique of my and their own work. Each student may have a different way of dealing with a problem or special techinique that they have developed to create a certain effect.

So basically what I am saying is that although the class may not have taught me anything new, the interaction with other people who have the same interests has taught me things that I would probably not have explored on my own. In addition having people with different backgrounds and experiences contributing their own ideas is very enlightning.
rainmaker
While it may not be necessary to have a degree in computer science or a related field, it certainly helps. Employers recognize that a potential candidate has some skills if he/she possesses a degree (whether or not this is an accurate gauge is a different story). It's really the only sure way of knowing, I guess. From what I've seen, employers must also pay degree holders more than those people who do not hold the same credentials. For an example, I work as a tech assistant for my former high school. The district tech does not have a degree in computer science or anything, and from what he says, would make more had he pursued a college degree before entering the field. But anyway...you'll just have to decide for yourself. Take my rants worth a grain of salt.

--rainmaker
Possum
I think everyone here is correct. But the differenced is if you want to be self employed or not. As an employee I've never done well. But as a self employed contractor I have. There are a whole range of jobs that I cannot ever apply for. But that leaves plenty of high paying opportunities. Especially website and application design.
liljp617
Okay, but let's just say you opt in for an interview with a major company. Among you, there are other people who have just the same skills you do, who know just as much as you do about programming and such, and have all the same qualifications after that. But they have a degree from a college/university. I'm sorry to break it to you, but you're probably not going to get the job over the other people. It's simple business management; you hire the most experienced person who has the qualifications. Having a degree from a university can only increase your chances of getting a great job. There's no reason not to go if you can afford it (which everybody can these days with financial aid and scholarships being such a huge deal).

That's not to say you won't find a job, get hired, or be able to make a living of self employment, but a degree simply makes it easier and gives you more opportunities with higher companies.
meet in rio
I went to uni for three reasons:

1. To meet interesting, like-minded people, have a brilliant time and generally have fun with my peers. It's not like I get on with everyone at university, but I have vastly more in common with everyone I meet at university than those I meet in the 'real' world.

2. Because I enjoy learning about my chosen subjects, and I also enjoy taking up random ones. In addition to ym English/Spanish major, I've so far managed to take classes (some unofficial and some credit-bearing) in German, Mandarin, Modern Hebrew and Greek, plus other societies like dancing. Plus little stuff: last week I learned how to play Go, for instance.

3. To improve my employment prospects and future salary.

I live in England and go to uni in Scotland, though, so this indulgence is a lot cheaper for me than it would be for a North American.
evilryu530
whatver you want. it's not about just learning. it's about finding your self or creating yourself. you get to socialize and you get to discover new things. you get to mingle, you get to learn from other people and get new ideas. its about becoming well rounded. it's about putting youself out there and seeing what you get back. go ahead and learn on your own at home and sitting in front of your computer. you'll never meet anyone, you'll never get a chance to converse and share your insights with anyone else. or meet professors that ill change your life! why not combine the two and get the best of both worlds?!!?!?!?! there are plenty of other reason to goto school than to teach yourself. i mean, when u get a real job, you won't know how to work with others and all kinds of fun stufff!!!!! Very Happy
Possum
evilryu530 wrote:
you get to socialize and you get to discover new things. you get to mingle, you get to learn from other people and get new ideas. its about becoming well rounded. it's about putting youself out there and seeing what you get back
.

You are correct.. I got dragged off my computer by some worried friends the other day. But I'm back again .. lol...


Once a day I always drop tools and go see someone not related to biz....

Also when you are self employed you have freedom and respect of other motivated individuals who you can socialize with..


cheers Possum
Cddhesh
I totally agree with you.If can learn on your own many things but outside world wants proof that you have learn particular thing.Even if you are proving to them that you can do anything with what you learn
only few will be agree to it.
Computer world is very different.You can learn yourself any language and practically get knowledge.This is because there is no much cost,just cost of computer and some software.But imagine Medicine industry.You will have to go through proper institution and theory(many books and journels).
If you are good in logic ,you are boss.
urbanbuddha
Like in martial arts, a belt does not mean anything. It's all about skills.

But when you're looking for a job, then its going to be more difficult. Having a university degree or college diploma, it provides you more credentials in obtaining a job versus a person who just has a high school diploma.

While people think they're good at programming, with all the languages out there, its hard to be a "master" of programming. Programming and its people are always evolving trying to converge technologies and developing new techniques and ethos. Programming 10 years ago is not the same as now, and I doubt that programming in the present will be the same 10 years in the future.

While there are some successful programmer without a university degree (I can't any from the top of my head), you'll need to independently develop a product for others to take notice and gain some recognition.
Possum
Quote:
While there are some successful programmer without a university degree (I can't any from the top of my head), you'll need to independently develop a product for others to take notice and gain some recognition.


Yes I am an independent developer. And it is a struggle getting by. I just wish there was another system of proof of ability other than the education system. I'm not so much anti the system. It just doesn't work for me.



Cheers Possum
sopetite
The harsh reality is, companies who pay good salaries do not give much attention to people who claim their expertise but do not have enough data to prove it.

CEOs or interviewers wont waste time looking at your project. What they want is grades. Well, that would be based on the interviews that I've gone through
Possum
Perhaps we should start thinking of self employment.
deStructuralized
Let us know how the search goes.
Possum
Self Employment is not a search but the creation of a needed service.


Cheers Possum..


PS. you may need to search for the need.. Smile
longandpartners
not everyone got so lucky as you. college gives more opportunity to earn a fortune
Possum
Im not in anyway anti the system. And College is a lot of fun. But my brain type never fitted in. The railroad path to success that College provides is a proven track. However I'm happy out in the foot hills with my donkey and gold pan. The choice was never mine though. My learning type is Real World not Lecture Theater. Until a better system of ability training and auditing of ability (exams) appears I would recommend the formal way, too many rattle snakes out here..

cheers Possum..
doppleganger
hi,

well i am not against guys/gals who hate going to school or college coz even i believe that when you know all that is to be known why go to school or college because life is the best teacher that can teach you things about life which no school or college can but dude sometimes u just need the things called DEGREE which is required by companies so hence school / college is an optional must
Afaceinthematrix
I was just talking to someone a couple of days ago. She'd been working at her job for 20 years and had a bunch of experience. A bunch of college graduates with degrees were getting jobs where she worked. They were constantly asking her questions, and asking her for help because they didn't know what to do and she did. She didn't have a degree, but was obviously much better at the job. However, these new workers with degrees were making more money than her, who had 20 years on the job and was much better at it than them, and they were just starting out! So she's going to school now to get the degree.
videoguy
"I deffinately understand what you are saying and to some extent agree with you. I am an artist, so how much can a formal education really teach me??? Actually a whole lot .... not through the coursework but through the interaction with other like minded students. It is amazing to me that you can have 30 people work on the same assignment and none of them end up looking simular. In addition to that each one has a different critique of my and their own work. Each student may have a different way of dealing with a problem or special techinique that they have developed to create a certain effect.

So basically what I am saying is that although the class may not have taught me anything new, the interaction with other people who have the same interests has taught me things that I would probably not have explored on my own. In addition having people with different backgrounds and experiences contributing their own ideas is very enlightning."


if you dont want to go to school, then do freelance work. otherwise, have a great reel of example work that you can show off.....people will be really impressed if they see what you can do, and it may even look better than some random person that attended some school.
HealingHands5
A college or university is very much essential, especially in today's world of globalization. Having a formal education indicates that you are schooled an disciplined in your chosen area of specialization.

All employers would prefer to hire someone who not only have years of experiences, but also a college degree or a professional certifcation. It confirms that what you say you have accomplished during your years of work have supportive substantial evidence; because the rigors of a college curriculum requires a student to be well rounded.

You will be able to get by in life, especially if your geographical location has very few college graduates in your area of expertise, but remember; people relocate for many reasons, one of the main ones, being better paying jobs; due to shortage in qualified personnel.

My advice to you is, not just to get by in life, but to excel! the possibilities are endless. Go to college, perhaps start with an Associate degree, then the Bachelor's, Masters ... Just be all that you can be! You'll find that once you get started you'll breeze through quite easiily, because you've had the hands-on experience. Go to college online, on weekends in the traditional way, in the evenings, whatever; Just do it before your loose the Zeal to.
benjmd
There are a few good reasons to go to school and HealingHands5 really hit on one of them -- sometimes getting a degree and the extra education is key to excelling and not just getting by. But I would list these reasons:

1. A broad liberal arts education or even a focused training program will likely include a wider variety of subjects than you may have pursued on your own, giving a broader depth of knowledge. In every professional field there is an advantage to have knowledge of other fields because it accentuates the details of your own work and your interactivity with clients.

2. Your work is one marker of your own learning/development in your topic area but a degree is another marker of that, one that some people rely more heavily on when evaluating you for a job.

3. Learning by yourself limits you quite severely to the biases of the resources you use. Engaging in classes and learning with a group of people and different professors offers additional perspectives on the information, techniques, and skills you are learning.

4. Many people need structured motivation (i.e. classes) to guide their study and learning.
MeddlingMonk
I went to school and university for a few reasons:

1) I wanted a formal qualification - most potential employers want to see proof of your abilities. A qualification from a univerisity or college provides that.

2) I wanted to keep learning. Yes, I could have simply read books on the fields of science that interest me, but I wouldn't necessarily have access to the resources a university could provide (such as practical laboratory work).

3) I wanted to meet people with similar interests.
scotty
One of the professors at my university did a study on the salaries of people who went to university against those who don't. On average, a university degree will get you $380,000 more in salaries over your lifetime. People get paid more if they went to university, that's why they go.
Kelcey
While having a degree clearly doesn't mean you know more than someone without one, employers like to see them. For many positions (not all positions in a company), a BS is a minimum in engineering jobs. I'd even argue that those who are self taught typically know more than those who just went through a university. But going through a university means you can complete something. Also, going to school is a lot more than education... you grow and learn about yourself there as opposed to just what's going on in your classes.
icecool
Possum wrote:
Hi

Why go to school or university.

I am self taught computer and programming. I'm totally confident I can earn an income from my skills. I can't see the use of formal learning at all.. Apart from learning for entertainment reasons. Maybe when you are old. Then a university course might be interesting..

PS I'm glad my doctor and dentist went to uni... And the person who build the plane I flew in.. But there are zillions of jobs especially in the computer and information fields where on the job learning is really the only way to progress.

Your thoughts please...


i am 55 years old and had to go through life without any advanced education - anything i wanted or needed to know i found out myself - and ofen the hard way.

now i live in the gambia, west africa, where most people never had any education and just over the last few years basic education is accessible to just about every kid - but it still costs.

now, average per capita earnings here are less than $ 1 per day. the hard choice alot of families have to make is spend that money on food to survive or on educating their kids.
everybody realises that without education nobody ever escapes the poverty trap, so everybody is very keen to give their kids a better chance in life than they had themselves.

in the west you take education for GRANTED, it is a RIGHT you all feel you have - yet so many youngsters today wrinkle their noses and think its a pain to HAVE to go to school.

don't you realise that you get an education FOR YOURSELF??????? it's not for anybody else. it's to keep you own mind flexible, searching. questioning. asking.... LEARNING!!!!!!

then it's up to you what you do with it, how you use it in your lifetime - just to earn money or actually try to live a more fulfilled life.

good luck is all i can say Sad
exskool
Go to university:

1. guided learning, specifically into your interest and else that you should know
2. understand faster from lectures compare to self-reading/-studying


Self-learning
1. expert only in the focusing areas
2. highly confidence in doing works
cvkien
yes you may learn everything you want but there is some limitation without going to school or university. that is people won't trust you that you have that skills or capable to do something you mention about. then maybe you might say "then i can show them my skills", yes if they, those ceo or those who wanna hire you have the time to see what you did in front of them. unless you work at some small size office that the payment would be 2 times lower than the big company that require you to have the university certificate. and if without those degree certificate, you will see as not able to challenge those who have qualification certificate. i myself was good in computer and i use to teach my minor lecturer, in facts i am a psychology student. my minor lecturer who teach me flash and photoshop and i think they are not that qualify as i do. but they have the certificate. that the problem. the world is too realistic.
Davidgr1200
Well, if you're totally confident - open up your own consulting business now. If you find it doesn't work out you still have time to change your mind and go to college.
DrGee
Basically when you go to school or a university you go there togain knowledge. You are there to get smarter so when it comes to a real life it will be easier for you.
carlospro7
i agree that you don't need formal education to gain skills in a field. I, like the author of this thread, have taught myself a great deal of the stuff i know in computers, but I still decided to go to school.
My reasons:
- Get a degree so that I don't have spend time convincing employers that I actually know my stuff, and even if I get a job, I still may not get paid as much as someone with a degree. I guess the degree is there to say that I'm skilled, hopefully.
- Go through the college experience in a college environment, which I really think is priceless, I've had some of the best times of my life.
- University resources. You get can access to some pretty cool stuff through a university.
- And make people happy, like my family and myself.

Neither of my parents went to college, yet by their 30s they had a very successful business which is now paying for my tuition costs, So i happen to believe that college is not necessary to be skilled and knowledgeable in something. I actually believe that those who learn without the need of an institution are more driven towards success.
cloudship
community and social connection. some people live on that and make money from it. A job in computing and programming requires less contact with people than with computers, however, a good software provider should understand the demand of the end users, but not to sitting in the house and to develop software only usable to himself or only few people.
gandalfthegrey
I agree with Possum. You don't need school... unless you want to work for someone else.

Robert Kiyosaki (of Rich Dad fame and frequent guest on Oprah) wrote a book before he became famous called "If you want to be rich and happy.... don't go to school"
He details in the book numerous reasons why one shouldn't go through formal schooling.
sneha
just one question .how do u think u learnt to talk,read and write?frm ur parents right?how did they learn>?frm their parents?so ther should b atleast a soul frm ur who wud hav gone to school!!!




sneha
gud luck next time!
Aiz
Even if you are a genius in everything, without a degree, it's pretty hard to get around in the current society when so much importance is placed on academic prestige. Heck, a foreigner can't even hope to get a work visa to Japan without a 4-year degree under their belt.

Sure you can learn things yourself, but there are limitations, no matter how minimal. And, without going to school, where do you get the social connections one needs to function in this world?

And about becoming rich and going to school, I haven't read that book but, I think he's talking about the opportunity cost of schooling, as in you can be making bucks instead of wasting time away in school. But lets be realistic. How many people can manage to start fresh in the world with no academic background to spell out to others what they are capable of?

Although I do agree academic career isn't everything in determining one's success, but it is usually a necessary component.
biljap
I think that knowledge and experience in your job are the most important things but in order to get a job in a good company you have to finish some school… People with university degree will always have advantage. Some companies already in their ads say that university degree is required, and if they don’t, I’m sure that while they read resumes they received, university degree will always be a plus. And not only university, more courses or seminars you attend it is better for job seekers…
Still, a degree without practical knowledge is nothing.
Peterssidan
Maybe it's different in different countries but I have heard that after 10 years in the field the experience is more important than the grade.

I go in school because I don't want to start working. Money isn't very important in life anyway. Probably I can get a well paid work after I'm finished which I'm very pleased for but it's just luck that I have choose the right education by the way.

The advantage with learning in school is that you learn a lot faster because it's hard to make yourself to work that hard by yourself. You also learn things that is boring but can be important in the future.

There is a lot of arguments why or why not to educate. Each person have their own experience so it's different what's good for them.
gabeos
just wanted to mention that getting jobs, &c. is not the only, nor in my opinion the best reason to attend university. I'm a college student now and the biggest benefit I see myself receiving from my education is not in gained knowledge, that you can do on your own. However, I love school just for the breadth of disciplines and thoughts you are exposed to.

To best take advantage of a university education don't go and bang through all the comp sci courses in a couple years (although I am a cs major). Take cs courses in addition to electives, philosophy, english, history. These are the subjects that will change your entire perspective on life and reasoning.
petra_portfolio
If you have done university you may earn more money.
ericf
To be honest, formal education does wonders for me. Even though I can do the learning on my own, there's no way on earth, I'd be as hardcore about it as MIT forces me to be.

Second, the experience is like no other in this world. Being taught by the brightest minds in the world and joining the brightest up-and-comers is amazing. I now have contacts all over the world at companies that, before coming here, I only dreamed of working at.

Yes, there are books. But there is no education like that of your peers and like that of those who have extensive knowledge in the subject matter. For instance, I hate bio. But it's a pretty good thing to know about. And if I'm going to learn it, I might as well be taught by the best. So... I take Biology with Eric Lander, one of the largest reasons that the Human Genome Project was successful.

On the job training is necessary. All the time. But then, you are limited. You know that and only that. You could learn more on your own, but it's not as interesting nor ... at least for me, will I learn it as well as I would've otherwise.

Finally, of course, there's the marketability factor. Walking into a job interview, I want to be able to walk in and list accomplishments. Not walk in and say, "I learned it. Really!" It's much easier to hand over a resume that says college degree. Complete. That alone says, "I have dedication. I have passion. I have perseverance. I can take whatever is shelled out to me."
deanhills
Possum wrote:
Hi

Why go to school or university.

I am self taught computer and programming. I'm totally confident I can earn an income from my skills. I can't see the use of formal learning at all.. Apart from learning for entertainment reasons. Maybe when you are old. Then a university course might be interesting..

PS I'm glad my doctor and dentist went to uni... And the person who build the plane I flew in.. But there are zillions of jobs especially in the computer and information fields where on the job learning is really the only way to progress.

Your thoughts please...


I am not an IT person, but can see that this is a neverending education for life as today's knowledge is tomorrow's history. I can also see that there would be millions of ways to earn a living with IT without a degree. However, where I am our local IT person is slightly frustrated as he cannot get to the next level of promotion without a degree, even though he is better qualified in every practical point of view. So perhaps it may be a good idea to do the degree in IT, as by the time when you really need it, it could make the difference for you that you may not understand today.

If you want to immigrate one day too, you may be limited without a degree, as the degree earns you extra points. Think for most of the big countries it is a degree or equivalent diploma and four years of experience. But the degree usually scores the most and is much easier to verify.

It is good to ask this question as everyone is different and unique and possibly some are just not suited for a University degree. For example people with lots of energy and drive who want to start their own companies and see results instantly may be too impatient to see the three to four years through. Others who are not so sure about what they want to do with their lives may want to travel first to get a bigger picture of the world and through the world of themselves.
Gitesh
I am a dentist and i feel its very important for some jobs to attend University and schools but for others related to computers and IT industry everything can be self taught.
So this varies according to the field of study.
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