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Turkey to invade Iraq?

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LumberJack
This is just going to make a bad situation worse. If Turkey invades the Kurd region of Iraq, and the US opposes, then it will make the US invasion much more complicated. Fortunately, the Prime Minister is willing to give diplomacy a shot, but it must happen fast. The Turkish people are furious, and the PM might not survive politically if he sits on his hands too long. Unfortunately, he says he is well within his rights to invade, following the previous American example of invading Iraq.

Btw, Turkey is a democratic country who is a member of Nato. The US has been using Turkey as a supply line throughout the war.

Hope they can work it out.

Forgot the link:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1674242,00.html?imw=Y

Turkey's War Drums Grow Louder:

Dozens of Turkish military trucks rumbled towards the Iraqi border as Turks across the country took to the streets to demand retaliation for an attack by Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) separatists based in north Iraq that killed 12 Turkish soldiers. It was the third large-scale attack in recent weeks. Eight Turkish soldiers are still missing after the incident. Sunday's attack may well prove the last straw for Turkey's hawkish military — NATO's second largest army after the U.S. — which has been readying to cross the border into north Iraq in pursuit of the PKK for several months. Public outrage over a mounting death toll finally led Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to approve an incursion last week. Meanwhile, U.S. and Iraqi diplomats are trying frantically to come up with a non-military solution.
Vladalf
I know Turkey is a poor country and that just the tourism keeps it going. IF they would start a war i can't imagine how Turkey will be affected, tourists wouldn't come anymore I think because of fear of bombing or something.
coolclay
I'd still go Turkey is an incredible country.
polis
Vladalf wrote:
I know Turkey is a poor country and that just the tourism keeps it going. IF they would start a war i can't imagine how Turkey will be affected, tourists wouldn't come anymore I think because of fear of bombing or something.


poor?
palavra
Quote:
I'd still go Turkey is an incredible country

thanks! Embarassed Very Happy



Vladalf wrote:
I know Turkey is a poor country and that just the tourism keeps it going. IF they would start a war i can't imagine how Turkey will be affected, tourists wouldn't come anymore I think because of fear of bombing or something.



-poor? compare to which country?
usa is also poor,if you compare it to scandinavian countries.

-tourism is a major income for turkiye but not the most important one.France and Spain dependent to tourism more than Turkiye.

-it will not be a long time war

-it is not an invade, it is self-protection.
loserk
In addition to "palavra"s post,i just wanted to report Iraqi Genocide made by American's,here it is:

Quote:
According to the humanitarian reports, the ongoing embargo imposed in 1990, coupled with the destruction caused by the 1991 Gulf war, has in turn directly caused the following:

1) As of March 2003 (just prior to the war), between 1.7 and 2 million Iraqi civilians have died due to malnutrition and disease, about 700,000 of them are children. Health Ministry documents under-5 and over-50 deaths due to disease and/or malnutrition at 1.7 million. If over-5 and under-50 age sectors are added, which is well over 500,000 deaths, that makes the total number of deaths over 2 million. Estimates of deaths due to the 2003 war range from 10,000 to 100,000.

2) Prior to the 2003 war, 1.5 million children were made orphans.

3) Prior to the 2003 war, 10,000 Iraqi civilians were dying every month (half of which were children). That amounted to 333 deaths a day, or 14 deaths an hour. An Iraqi civilian died from malnutrition and disease every 4 minutes. Since the 2003 war caused even more destruction of the civilian infrastructure (water, electricity, etc), coupled with the extensive of anti-personnel cluster bombs dropped on Iraq, and the mass lootings of hospitals and pharmacies, this average will be greatly skewed for the initial months after the 2003 war, until such a time when the civilian infrastructure is properly rebuilt.


.. and so many tasks. For further results of the iraqi genocide see http://www.ilaam.net/War/IraqEmbargo.html
Moonspider
loserk wrote:
In addition to "palavra"s post,i just wanted to report Iraqi Genocide made by American's,here it is:

Quote:
According to the humanitarian reports, the ongoing embargo imposed in 1990, coupled with the destruction caused by the 1991 Gulf war, has in turn directly caused the following:

1) As of March 2003 (just prior to the war), between 1.7 and 2 million Iraqi civilians have died due to malnutrition and disease, about 700,000 of them are children. Health Ministry documents under-5 and over-50 deaths due to disease and/or malnutrition at 1.7 million. If over-5 and under-50 age sectors are added, which is well over 500,000 deaths, that makes the total number of deaths over 2 million. Estimates of deaths due to the 2003 war range from 10,000 to 100,000.

2) Prior to the 2003 war, 1.5 million children were made orphans.

3) Prior to the 2003 war, 10,000 Iraqi civilians were dying every month (half of which were children). That amounted to 333 deaths a day, or 14 deaths an hour. An Iraqi civilian died from malnutrition and disease every 4 minutes. Since the 2003 war caused even more destruction of the civilian infrastructure (water, electricity, etc), coupled with the extensive of anti-personnel cluster bombs dropped on Iraq, and the mass lootings of hospitals and pharmacies, this average will be greatly skewed for the initial months after the 2003 war, until such a time when the civilian infrastructure is properly rebuilt.


.. and so many tasks. For further results of the iraqi genocide see http://www.ilaam.net/War/IraqEmbargo.html


And this has what to do with the possibility of Turkey crossing the Iraqi border to engage Kurdish rebels?

My father-in-law still suffers from the ill effects of malnutrition as a child in post-war Germany. Is that the fault of the U.S. as well since it was her and her allies that conquered Germany in 1945? His father suffered yellow fever while fighting in Stalingrad. Was that the fault of the Soviet Union because they defended the city too well?

You talk as if the Iraqi government did nothing to warrant the 1991 war or the sanctions which followed. What of their culpability? The Iraqi government was just an innocent bystander? Accidentally conquered Kuwait? Had no corruption whatsoever in the Oil for Food program? I'm sure Hussein did everything within his power to take care of the Iraqi people, bent over bakwards to save them, but could not because of the United States. I bet he even set an example of personal sacrifice. Alas, the poor saint.

Blaming the U.S. for anything that occurred there in the '90s is no different than blaming the poor conditions in post-war Germany and Japan on the Allies.

But, like I said, we're off topic. I'm sure there are many other threads on the Iraq War(s) and the United States.

Respectfully,
M
palavra
i think turkiye has a right to blame usa for the result of usa invade of iraq.Turkiye has to face a lots of difficult situation because of this invading and usa did nothing to help turkiye


Quote:
Last Friday at a high-profile breakfast to mark the opening of the Turkish Confederation of Businessmen and Industrialists' (TUSKON) office in Washington, State Department Principal Deputy Coordinator for Counterterrorism Frank Urbancic was eager to use the opportunity to find a member of the Turkish Cabinet at the same table. He kindly briefed Minister Mehmet Şimşek about US administration efforts against the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK). I don't know if Şimşek was content with this briefing, but I do remember Urbancic telling a group of Turkish journalists a long time ago about what they had done on the matter. The problem back then and still now is that US actions cover everywhere but northern Iraq. Clearly, we the journalists haven't been contented, the Turkish government hasn't been contented and the Turkish public definitely hasn't been contented. However, the question is, does it really matter? Do Americans really care whether Turks are happy or not? "Not so much," the US government's track record full of unfulfilled promises suggests.
Many people in Turkey think the US has only been trying to buy time at the expense of Turkish losses to terror and to the benefit of Kurdish interests. Since there has not been much in the way of visible concrete developments, how could one blame them? US-borrowed Turkish time stops short of buying Iraqi and Kurdish leaders' consent for action. They simply don't think Turkey would invade northern Iraq under the current diplomatic and military conditions. And they probably think they can manage anything short of that with the help of their big brother the US.

The US has been a big brother to Turkey as well since we entered NATO. Our big brother protected us from communism during the Cold War, and we helped him in return at many of his world-policing jobs. After the demise of the Soviet Union, Turks started thinking that they didn't need that much protection from big brother. It gradually became evident that Turkey's support for every US policy could not be taken for granted anymore. Hence, in Bush the II's Iraq war, limited support was offered to the Americans. Although it was quite a considerable contribution to a controversial war effort, Americans were extremely disappointed because US expectations were so high. Then came the time for Turkey to be disappointed: The US left its brother alone with the terrorist threat emanating from the country which it has invaded and overseen. And I would be very surprised if the cycle of disappointment on both US and Turkish sides ends anytime soon.

If there had been a serious dialogue between both countries on Iraq's future, we could have dealt with the problem of the PKK in northern Iraq more effectively. But as Ian Lesser in his recent report titled "Rethinking US-Turkish Relations: Beyond Suspicion" correctly points out, the US does not seriously consult with Turkey, the closest NATO ally to the Middle East region, on issues pertaining to Iraq. One explanation might be the disappointment factor, and there are structural elements as well. The radars of two critical US institutions -- the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs and the Pentagon's Central Command (CENTCOM) -- which are chiefly responsible for Iraqi affairs, are almost blind to Turkey. On the other hand, the Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs at the State Department and EUCOM (US European Command) of the Pentagon, which cover Turkey, are well informed on the country and can act in a more responsive way to Turkish concerns. However, it has been hard for any knowledgeable US official to move their relevant colleagues to action. It is regrettable that institutionalized habits and egos in the US government may result in further alienating a former strategic partner, not to mention incompetence, of course.

From the ivory towers of Washington, Turkey may look like a mid-scale country which cannot stand in the way of the US, but that doesn't help with securing the waning "coalition of the willing." Instead, it further pushes disappointed nations like Turkey into the club of unwilling US allies. Due to lack of attention, wisdom and respect, the US cannot benefit from Turkey as a strategic asset as much as it could and pays the cost in lost opportunities. But if Turkey chooses to be a liability, especially in the Middle East, the actual costs to US interests (as well as Turkey) would definitely hurt. I don't expect such a thing will happen soon in a dramatic way; but if the cycle of mutual disappointments persist, that is eventually inevitable.

The road to the hearts and minds of Turks goes through northern Iraq, not one-sided congressional resolutions insulting them with genocide claims. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates nowadays frequently talks about the need for "actionable intelligence" to do just that. Mr. Gates wants us to believe the main reason for inaction against the PKK is lack of intelligence. Isn't he sort of right? Had American, Iraqi and Kurdish leaderships been intelligent enough, they would not have risked alienating a critical nation like Turkey. However I'm afraid the state of "in-actionable unintelligence" might persist for some time to come.

26.10.2007


http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=125584
horseatingweeds
I think they have the right to blame the US too. Hell, if Sadam was still in charge they could have worked together to just exterminate the Kurds.
palavra
horseatingweeds wrote:
I think they have the right to blame the US too. Hell, if Sadam was still in charge they could have worked together to just exterminate the Kurds.


--at the end of first gulf war, usa left kurds to their destiny and saddam's mercy
only turkiye opened it's gate for kurds.

--and what is the difference now,kurds and usa work together to just exterminate Arabs.
horseatingweeds
palavra wrote:
--at the end of first gulf war, usa left kurds to their destiny and saddam's mercy
only turkiye opened it's gate for kurds.


That's right. They did. It was a mistake. Bush Sr went in to liberate Kuwait and many people thought the Iraqi people would over throw Sadam. They underestimated his ability to oppress his people though.

palavra wrote:

--and what is the difference now,kurds and usa work together to just exterminate Arabs.


Yes palavra. Indeed. The US, Kurds, and the Zionist empire are conspiring to exterminate all the Arabs.... Listen, if the US wanter to exterminate Arabs, you wouldn't know very many. I fear though, that you suffer from the influence of the movement that wishes to convince the Arab world such things so Arabs will be willing to bleed their children for their cause.

Gob bless the Arabs, but if the movement that has you convinced of such things has its way, our children won't know any.
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