Last week I was talking to someone in my adult learning class. she is over 20 and I had to explain to her what a swastika was, who the nazi party were and why that symbol isn't a really nice one. She had no clue. I got quite angry and asked 'di you go to highschool?' and she said she did but she didn't learn much.
I couldn't believe it.
Can it really be possible that a whole generation is graduating from school and they haven't learnt the basics of history???
I can't imagine not knowing these things?
This girl graduated highschool only three years ago.
What do ya think?
As always people learn what they want to learn. We had nearly a one-year-long prodject about the econd World War, and not everyone can have that.
And about the swastika, it's nothing wrong with it, just with the people who have abused it over the years.
I think you are worrying a bit too much.
In the context of Australian secondary ""Education""and as a teacher it doesn't surprise me at all.
Remember that she has had to fight her way through a Board Of Studies ( in NSW, at least) list of Bicycle Safe Use, Pet Care, Aboriginal Affairs and Stranger Danger before she got the De-construct History from a Feminist, and Gay, and Aboriginal perspective. If she was not in a state of coma after that, it's very surprising indeed.
But beat this- last year I had a year 10 kid swear black and blue that the World is 6000 years old Huh, I said?...she was Seventh Day Adventist, it seems, and no discussion of the facts was permitted at home.
A wise man once said that half the world had a below-average IQ. This has since been repeated by many statisticians without giving due credit to that first wise man.
I agree with you that so many people do not have a sound knowledge of history--and it is not for a lack of available learning resources to them. I understand if you grow up in a poor third world country with a bad school system and don't know what year WWII ended, but not if you grow up in a modern economic power with an established school system. The problem is that learning is hard and when you don't get pushed by those around you it is easy to give up. Sometimes it's the teacher that isn't very into their job (but not so often). Often times it is the parent that is too busy (for good reasons or for bad reasons). And of course there will always be peers equally as reluctant to do any work. Even smart people give up at learning when they encounter something which which they struggle.
What I find most worrisome is that there are so many people that exploit this instead of trying to improve our educational systems to stop it. Some politicians twist history to support their cause. Directors, writers, and musicians steal from generations long past knowing that most of their audience will never know, rather than using the medium to expose them to the genius of artists in other eras.
a Swastika is an archetypal symbol found all over the world in different places and times meaning basically the same thing.. NONE OF WHICH had anything to do with how Hitler used it, Hitler was Bat Guano Crazy, he had Syphilis of the brain, besides not being well educated. he was essentially a stupid man raised to a position beyond his capacities by evil greedy men for profit, with the same consequences when ever/where ever that happens. history always repeats itself.
the Swastika is a very important symbol in many religions and spiritual faiths and practices for many thousands of years, from the Hopi Indians to the isolated Himalayan Tibetans. it is a mistake to condemn many highly developed faiths because of the ignorance and mental illness of one person.
| tijn01 wrote: |
Last week I was talking to someone in my adult learning class. she is over 20 and I had to explain to her what a swastika was, who the nazi party were and why that symbol isn't a really nice one. She had no clue. I got quite angry and asked 'di you go to highschool?' and she said she did but she didn't learn much.
I couldn't believe it.
Can it really be possible that a whole generation is graduating from school and they haven't learnt the basics of history???
I can't imagine not knowing these things?
This girl graduated high school only three years ago.
What do ya think? |
In general I would agree that the level of education in developed countries has not risen, perhaps even fallen, but the reason for this and the problems behind this are a bit more complex.
Even if the level of education has stagnated or even fallen in the last 1 to 2 generations, it is also true that the number of individuals with access to any meaningful form of education has risen, with discriminated minorities and the poorer working classes attaining at least some level of learning. Although this is in no way an apology for todays level of education, it could explain some of reasons.
Second, I believe that the abolishment of any type of physical punishment has led to a loss of order and respect without which it is difficult to uphold a learning environment. Now before you let your indignations run rampant 
, I am in no way approving or endorsing physical or psychological punishment, I recall to well the ruler slaps on my palm or my mouth getting washed out with soap by Father Pedroza (and those were only the very mild ones), our mistake was that we removed these tools and did not think of replacing them with something else. If we rightfully dismiss punishment as a method to "encourage" learning then we are assuming that our society has developed sufficiently and is motivated enough to welcome education on principle and as a way of advancement, and this is simply not the case. Not only are we not providing the environment needed for teaching a child the very basics, we are even ignoring this fact and graduating a meaningful number of people regardless of their grades and achievements so as to make just enough room for the next generation of unskilled, untrained, uneducated children.I would like to see some evidence that the standard and level of education has fallen in developed countries. Up to now all I see is anecdote (and very selective anecdote). There is a natural tendency for more 'mature' people to be shocked when a younger person doesn't know something that they feel is essential knowledge - I suffer from the same thing myself very frequently. This is not, however, indicative of declining standards and levels of education.
There is also a large amount of 'self-selective sampling' going on here. More articulate and better educated commentators frequently make this assertion about education (standards are falling) without properly considering that they represent an 'elite' from their own times. Here in the UK, for example, the old 'grammar' school system may have produced a better educated 'elite' than the current comprehensive system does (it is debatable and I am not convinced that this is the case). There is no doubt, however, that the Secondary Modern schools (ie the schools attended by the great majority) produced a lower standard of general education. The average level has, therefore, risen not fallen.
Until it can be established that there actually is a decline in standards then there is little point addressing questions such as corporal punishment and it's alternatives.
| Bikerman wrote: |
I would like to see some evidence that the standard and level of education has fallen in developed countries. Up to now all I see is anecdote (and very selective anecdote). There is a natural tendency for more 'mature' people to be shocked when a younger person doesn't know something that they feel is essential knowledge - I suffer from the same thing myself very frequently. This is not, however, indicative of declining standards and levels of education.
There is also a large amount of 'self-selective sampling' going on here. More articulate and better educated commentators frequently make this assertion about education (standards are falling) without properly considering that they represent an 'elite' from their own times. Here in the UK, for example, the old 'grammar' school system may have produced a better educated 'elite' than the current comprehensive system does (it is debatable and I am not convinced that this is the case). There is no doubt, however, that the Secondary Modern schools (ie the schools attended by the great majority) produced a lower standard of general education. The average level has, therefore, risen not fallen.
Until it can be established that there actually is a decline in standards then there is little point addressing questions such as corporal punishment and it's alternatives. |
I recall that in 2003, as the PISA shock hit Germany, basically stating that German education was noticeably below the European average whereas many Germans were proudly convinced that public education in Germanywas among the best in the world. At that time, with my son still in school, I remember taking a closer look at the results. Although PISA did attempt to establish sufficient common denominators and testing specifications to allow for a comparison of the quality of education, these statistics allowed only a snapshot of the current year; comparisons with PISA tests in other years were less reliable and comparisons to non-PISA data was practically worthless. I've seen some attempts at comparing historic data using the results of standardized test such as the SAT in the US, but these were usually accompanied by margins of error which made the results rather inexact and questionable.
You are certainly correct that the average levels of education are somewhat distorted by the growing no. of students that have gained access to education compared to previous generations where only an "elite" has access to such (I attempted to address this in the previous post, perhaps too clumsily to be understood correctly).
Certainly, some (most?) adults who have gained some general education simply by having lived a few decades longer than the average student, perhaps tend to misinterpret this. On the other hand, not having any reliable statistical data for an objective comparison, does not necessarily make a subjective oder deductive result incorrect.
In my opinion, although the average level of education has probably risen/not fallen by the simple fact that more individuals now have access to schools / universities, the quality in general has fallen (both in the amount and depth of the learning matter as in the general atmosphere and in the quality of the learning environment). | passnthru2 wrote: |
a Swastika is an archetypal symbol found all over the world in different places and times meaning basically the same thing.. NONE OF WHICH had anything to do with how Hitler used it, Hitler was Bat Guano Crazy, he had Syphilis of the brain, besides not being well educated. he was essentially a stupid man raised to a position beyond his capacities by evil greedy men for profit, with the same consequences when ever/where ever that happens. history always repeats itself.
the Swastika is a very important symbol in many religions and spiritual faiths and practices for many thousands of years, from the Hopi Indians to the isolated Himalayan Tibetans. it is a mistake to condemn many highly developed faiths because of the ignorance and mental illness of one person. |
I beg to differ. He was actually quite the capable, intelligent leader. He took a country in depression and put it at a level that was a huge threat to the world in a very short period of time. He was very charismatic and had the full ability to make people believe his views. I don't approve of what he did in any way, but saying he was stupid and incapable is wrong based on what I've seen of him.Yes in fact I have hear that many American who went to school cant even name 10 of their own states
let alone the Continent and seas
I have also a great many stories about American
here is one for example
There was one ( American traveling with a New Zealander in a Plane
They has a conversation on the present state of affairs of USA including finance unemployment politics etc., and the NZer was inquisitive and asking for relevant information
the American finally asked which country are you from to the NZer
the NZer replied I am from NZ
THe American in a very surprised reaction said out load that you speak very very good English for a foreigner!!
