| Quote: |
Indonesia needs more funding to fight against bird flu virus
Wednesday, September 12, 2007
Prodita Sabarini, The Jakarta Post, Nusa Dua, Bali
Indonesia, holding the world's highest human fatality rate of H5N1 infections, is short of more than half the amount of funding required to fight the bird flu virus, the head of the bird flu national committee said Tuesday.
Chief executive of the Indonesian National Committee for Avian Influenza Control and Pandemic Preparedness Bayu Krisnamurthi said on the sidelines of a meeting between the Indonesian government and international donors, that Indonesia needs around US$ 300 million per year to fight avian influenza.
"Currently we have only around $120 million from the national budget combined with funds from international donors. So we are short of more than half the amount we need," he said, adding the committee is trying to survive with the existing budget. |
Well maybe they shouldn't so much money buying bloody helicopters and jet fighters for the military. Now they expect a free handout to fight bird flu.
Why should other countries fund Indonesia's military spending? Which is basically what this would mean. It will mostly disappear through corruption with no actual result anyway.
| Quote: |
RI, Russia strike historic deals
Friday, September 07, 2007
Urip Hudiono, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta
Indonesia and Russia dusted off and greased up their somewhat rusty relationship with the signing of a US$1 billion defense deal during President Vladimir Putin's visit to Jakarta on Thursday.
Russia, intent on boosting its diplomatic and military influence in Asia, should be able achieve just that through the deal, which will provide credit lines for Indonesia to buy Russian-made helicopters, tanks and submarines.
In addition to the military deal, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and President Putin also witnessed later in the day the signing of agreements for cooperation in the financial sector, financial audits, foreign loans, investment protection, terrorism, the environment, sport and tourism -- with the latter envisaging a "visa-on-arrival" facility for Russian tourists coming to Indonesia.
Speaking to reporters following the signing of the military agreement, Yudhoyono said that defense cooperation would help Indonesia modernize the arms and military equipment of its land, air and naval forces.
The arms agreement follows Indonesia's signing of a deal to buy six Sukhoi-30 fighter planes at a Moscow airshow last month, and is seen as being part of an effort to reduce its dependence on U.S. weaponry. |
| Quote: |
Indonesia plans to buy 10 transport helicopters, five assault helicopters, 20 amphibious tanks and two submarines from Russia, Defense Ministry spokesman Edy Butar Butar had said.
The arms agreement follows Indonesia's signing of a deal to buy six Sukhoi fighter planes at a Moscow airshow last month.
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Here are 3 photos I took today in Jakarta. They were taken in what is one of the wealthier suburbs, although you wouldn't think so looking at it. I have not shown houses to prevent the actual location being identified.
Who cares about bird flu, they dont deserve nothig from the UK. Why should any country feed countrys with money to buy weapons.
We had to devlop by our self as countrys, they should do the same.
| newso wrote: |
| We had to devlop by our self as countrys, they should do the same. |
That's a bit narrow-minded, and very easy to say living in a developed and relatively prosperous country..tell me, have you ever visited somewhere like Indonesia or Fiji?
I'm not sure exactly exactly how much, but I do know that AusAID (the Australian government's foreign aid agency) sends a fair bit of cash to Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, the Solomons et al every year. A bit of Googling reveals that we donated $100 million in 2005 (1, 2) although since then evidently not much.Ive been to Indonesia myself... and they could sure use some help. There is so much tragedy there. I was there with a help organization, and it really breaks your heart to see how some of the people live over there. Especially the children on the streets, selling bracelets and stuff, walkin mile after mile from home each day.
The united kingdom is one big fat ass charity case. We give more money to every country than anyone. Europe is bleeding us dry.
Its about time the UK stopped thinking about everyone else and started thinking about our own people and get our country back on top instead of helping out others before we end up like them too.
We have give multi billions to these country's and thy don't see it cuz of their corrupt governments. So why the hell should we keep doing it.
Look at all the money people have provided to Africa. Its all been pocketed, very little has been spent on them.
If we should be helping them out, then it shouldn't be money. It should be the things they need such as clean water, food, clothes. Things they need. Not giving them money they don't receive.
| LimpFish wrote: |
| Ive been to Indonesia myself... and they could sure use some help. There is so much tragedy there. I was there with a help organization, and it really breaks your heart to see how some of the people live over there. Especially the children on the streets, selling bracelets and stuff, walkin mile after mile from home each day. |
I have lived here nearly ten years. I agree it is heartbreaking to see the hardships of the poor in Indonesia.
Problem is when you give money to such an utterly corrupt government as Indonesia very little will ever get to the poor. The people involved in distribution will siphon off most of it to buy new cars and big houses.
Check out the Jakarta Post at http://www.thejakartapost.com/headlines.asp to see how much corruption is here.
Nearly every day there are 1 or 2 stories on corruption. | newso wrote: |
| Its about time the UK stopped thinking about everyone else and started thinking about our own people and get our country back on top instead of helping out others before we end up like them too. |
It's all about me, me, me, meeeeeeeeeeeeee.. That kind of attitude is the one that will perpetuate poverty and inequality - if you had ever seen, or heard of, or better yet experienced (not that I have) for five minutes the challenges facing some people then I think you might be of a different opinion.
| newso wrote: |
We have give multi billions to these country's and thy don't see it cuz of their corrupt governments. So why the hell should we keep doing it.
Look at all the money people have provided to Africa. Its all been pocketed, very little has been spent on them. |
Massive generalisation - a lot of that money, I daresay the majority of it, goes to valid causes and causes a world of good. Corruption might be an issue in lifting these countries out of poverty, but surely businesses based in the developed Western countries exploiting people and resources (for example..), or harsh austerity measures imposed by the IMF and company - cutting funds for health, education, and other essentials while all the while bringing about massive inflation rates, are bigger problems..
| newso wrote: |
| If we should be helping them out, then it shouldn't be money. It should be the things they need such as clean water, food, clothes. Things they need. Not giving them money they don't receive. |
Foreign aid is provided in both ways. Sending over bags of rice might be helpful, but surely funds that can be used where they're needed most are more appropriate? I remember seeing somewhere, Foreign Correspondent I think, that South African orphanages for children suffering from AIDS had more toys than they knew what to do with but no money to buy food.yea well I guess the corruption there is really bad... but I dont think thats a reason to stop giving indonesia money, but maybe a reason to change the way we help those countries. Maybe we shouldnt just give the governments money or however it works today... but instead give food, or build infrastructure or something, that corrupt leaders cannot put in their own pockets
We have an interest in seeing that some strains of bird 'flu - particularly H5N1 - are wiped out before they spread beyond their current zones. Indonesia is one of those zones.
I don't know what involvement and cooperation exist but if there is some and, as a result, lives of Indonesian people are saved that can only be a good thing.
| LimpFish wrote: |
| yea well I guess the corruption there is really bad... but I dont think thats a reason to stop giving indonesia money, but maybe a reason to change the way we help those countries. Maybe we shouldnt just give the governments money or however it works today... but instead give food, or build infrastructure or something, that corrupt leaders cannot put in their own pockets |
Exactly my point. Money aint going to do nothing. Not a thing. If we are gonner help these countrys then we should set them up water treatment plants and other ways to help them.
And as far as the other person said about us exploiting the poor. Get real, like in africa it was mainly their own people that explited them. The UK does so much to help people out.
But in the end, i know the UK is gonner be wrecked. It is already, we help them out at a cost of our own way of living. | newso wrote: |
Exactly my point. Money aint going to do nothing. Not a thing. If we are gonner help these countrys then we should set them up water treatment plants and other ways to help them.
|
I agree. They have already had money to help with this problem and yet there are still chickens running around the streets of the capital of Indonesia. It doesn't cost much money to fix that. They just don't seem to really care or at least understand the problem.
My real point was though , why should they be given money for bird flu when they can afford to borrow billions of $ for military hardware.
Why can't the government borrow for bird flu instead of begging?I guess that's for some reason a common problem in third world countries. The leaders dont give a F about the people, they're well off themselves anyways. But they sure as heck want a powerful military. I wonder why that is...
I'm Indonesian, and I live in Bandung.
There are thousand wild birds lives near my school area. I often see their dead body under the trees, but no one cares about them. Too bad, we cannot do anything because that area is their habitat.
It's very scary to wondering if they infected the bird flu viruses...
| LimpFish wrote: |
| I guess that's for some reason a common problem in third world countries. The leaders dont give a F about the people, they're well off themselves anyways. But they sure as heck want a powerful military. I wonder why that is... |
For the same reason the US wants a powerful military? 
| newso wrote: |
| LimpFish wrote: | | yea well I guess the corruption there is really bad... but I dont think thats a reason to stop giving indonesia money, but maybe a reason to change the way we help those countries. Maybe we shouldnt just give the governments money or however it works today... but instead give food, or build infrastructure or something, that corrupt leaders cannot put in their own pockets |
Exactly my point. Money aint going to do nothing. Not a thing. If we are gonner help these countrys then we should set them up water treatment plants and other ways to help them. |
And we do..not all of the developing world's problems relate to clean water and food. Rising foreign debt, massive inflation and all that contribute to their problems as well.
| newso wrote: |
| And as far as the other person said about us exploiting the poor. Get real, like in africa it was mainly their own people that explited them. The UK does so much to help people out. |
Who exploited who? Sure, you don't need outsiders to bring about that kind of damage but it would be arrogant to suggest that western countries have a completely spotless record.
One example that illustrates this doesn't neccessarily relate to foreign aid at all - many developing, and indeed developed ones such as Australia, are put at a huge disadvantage by subsidies put in place by the EU (that includes the UK) and the US. The hugely discounted subsidised goods flood the market for agricultural products, meaning that our hypothetical Australian farmer Bob, who lives just outside of Cairns, can't sell his sugar anywhere because the EU is exporting it at half the price.
We might give aid to poor countries but rest assured we screw them over nicely at the same time.
| newso wrote: |
| But in the end, i know the UK is gonner be wrecked. It is already, we help them out at a cost of our own way of living. |
The UK looks pretty healthy to me..last time I checked the vast majority of people had hot and cold running water, a good standard of living, independent media, freedom of speech, though, religious belief and all that..
I never said that it would be a good idea to drain all the UK's (or any other country's) cash into foreign aid - just that the 1% of so of GDP that is spent (I don't know the exact figure but the Milennium Development Goals, which it is a signatory of, say something around 0.8% of GDP should be spent on foreign aid) can in many cases go a long way.
In other words, you've got nothing to moan about! 
As long as the bird flu stays away, i will found rest. Because when the virus goes to mutate to a human version then i am very afraid that there a new plaque will rise.
Imagine that the mutated version of bird flu will reach Europe and the USA, i would give me the kreeps.
I hope that the pharma sectors will put all there energy in it to create a vaccin or some medication that can destroy the virus when a human body will be infected.
I will say "fingers crossed"
| newso wrote: |
The united kingdom is one big fat ass charity case. We give more money to every country than anyone. Europe is bleeding us dry.
Its about time the UK stopped thinking about everyone else and started thinking about our own people and get our country back on top instead of helping out others before we end up like them too.
We have give multi billions to these country's and thy don't see it cuz of their corrupt governments. So why the hell should we keep doing it.
Look at all the money people have provided to Africa. Its all been pocketed, very little has been spent on them.
If we should be helping them out, then it shouldn't be money. It should be the things they need such as clean water, food, clothes. Things they need. Not giving them money they don't receive. |
I know what you mean our hospitals really need improveing dont you think.
and yea i dont think we should send money directly to other countries if anything we should provide the tools and materials they need. | Quote: |
| newso wrote: | | But in the end, i know the UK is gonner be wrecked. It is already, we help them out at a cost of our own way of living. |
The UK looks pretty healthy to me..last time I checked the vast majority of people had hot and cold running water, a good standard of living, independent media, freedom of speech, though, religious belief and all that..
I never said that it would be a good idea to drain all the UK's (or any other country's) cash into foreign aid - just that the 1% of so of GDP that is spent (I don't know the exact figure but the Milennium Development Goals, which it is a signatory of, say something around 0.8% of GDP should be spent on foreign aid) can in many cases go a long way.
In other words, you've got nothing to moan about! |
I wouldnt really say we have freedom of speech any more to be honest we cant say anything anymore without someone getting upset e.t.cAm I the only person who thinks that Bird Flu is being over-hyped? Yeah, we should be preventative of it, but still ... people are acting like it's the plague!
| Soulfire wrote: |
| Am I the only person who thinks that Bird Flu is being over-hyped? Yeah, we should be preventative of it, but still ... people are acting like it's the plague! |
Actually H5N1 seems to be getting very little media attention here in the West.
Bird 'flu is one of the animal diseases that makes an easy transition to humans (in comparison to other animal diseases like FMD etc.). Given its potentially disastrous impact we're right to be cautious.
From: http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CAF91.htm
| Quote: |
| 'It was nothing like a winter flu. Victims suffered intense pain and terrible rib-cracking coughing spells, and their skin, their eyes and their ears started to bleed profusely. Worst of all, they turned deep blue as the clogging up of their lungs starved their blood of oxygen...over the space of a few hours or a few days at best, they literally suffocated as their lungs filled up with fluid and blood.…' |
This describes what happened to victims of Spanish 'Flu around 1917. It was highly contagious, had a very high mortality rate, and is thought to have been brought into the UK by troops returning after WWI. They, in turn, seem to have been infected by birds given to them (or stolen from) the French. Once in the UK, and elsewhere in Europe, it made the transition to human-human transmission and a pandemic ensued.
The symptoms and outcome of H5N1 closely mirror Spanish 'Flu.
At present H5N1 is infecting people who live and work in close proximity to infected birds - a typical situation in Indonesia and Vietnam. If human-human transmission begins we are likely to have another pandemic although, this time, we do have far better technology to identify, understand and contain it than we did in the early 1900s.
It seems to have all but disappeared from the Western media.
Behind the scenes, though it's still a serious concern for health organisations around the world. It's better to contain it now than to forget it and just hope it goes away on its own. If international aide is needed in the hot zones it'll be money well spent as long we can be sure that the money is being used to combat H5N1.
I'd say tempered caution and aide where it's needed are the way to go. Media hype and paranoia will achieve almost nothing.Indonesia has the highest death rate in the world for bird flu, over 80 people now, and yet, as I have showed in my photos, they are not really taking it that seriously at all.
The local population have no idea at all of the risks involved and basically couldn't care less. Not because they are callous but because they just don't have the basic health knowledge that so many of us take for granted.
They're leaders are the ones at fault and eventually must be held accountable if this threat turns bad.
