I heard someone say "the only proof we have that people are actually thinking is the fact that we have book stores". or something like that.
I think people don't think enough. Not nearly enough. We've all come only so far since learning how to read in europe back three to four hundred years ago. We still act like stupid peasants with pride in a false idol kind or queen. Except we've all learned to despise our leaders, like Bush. A lot of people like bush.
What's the thing all the people who like Bush have in common? Well... most of them hunt. Most of them are for PETA. Not the good People for the ethical treatment of animals... nooo... That would make too much sense and have too much logic. I'm talking about the ignorant people who are for the "People for eating tasty animals". People like that F****ing sicken me.
So... Are you a mindless person who follows everything that CLAIMS to make sense, or are you the type of person who follows things that DO make sense, or are you the type of person who doesn't follow anything unless it makes sense to you?
Anything can be made to make sense, and that is why it is necessary to have skeptics in this world. Please for the love of whatever you believe in, even if it's atheism, tell me you think. Tell me you're skeptic to every religion unless you think it makes sense. Tell me what I don't want to hear, tell me I'm wrong. That will prove that you are thinking.
Think for yourself.
Is the world thinking today? Or are we all mindless drones following nothing into oblivion?
66 thousand people will agree with me, that wolves should not be extinct, the rest of the united states seems to argue. And say the wolves are bad, for eating the cattle that tastes good and makes you fat and gives you cancer. Hell... I could go on and on the facts about eating meat, but I'm not going to get into that in this post. I'm talking about thinking.
I know for sure I think. I've written papers that are made to define reality. If I wasn't lazy I'd write books based on what I thought. But I have a life. Do you think?
What DO you think?
| Lobo23 wrote: |
| So... Are you a mindless person who follows everything that CLAIMS to make sense, or are you the type of person who follows things that DO make sense, or are you the type of person who doesn't follow anything unless it makes sense to you? |
i don't imagine you will find anyone that would admit that they just follow what other people tell them blindly. Then again, i could be wrong.
Most, if not all, people believe that they are perfectly logical, and that everything they believe, they believe for rational and well-considered reasons... even when that's entirely false. And most people, when backed against a wall and shown that they're not as rational as they thought they were, react quite badly.
So i don't know how productive it will be to just ask people if they're rational. And if you actually intend to call them out on their claims and find out if they are... watch out. | Indi wrote: |
| Lobo23 wrote: | | So... Are you a mindless person who follows everything that CLAIMS to make sense, or are you the type of person who follows things that DO make sense, or are you the type of person who doesn't follow anything unless it makes sense to you? |
i don't imagine you will find anyone that would admit that they just follow what other people tell them blindly. Then again, i could be wrong.
Most, if not all, people believe that they are perfectly logical, and that everything they believe, they believe for rational and well-considered reasons... even when that's entirely false. And most people, when backed against a wall and shown that they're not as rational as they thought they were, react quite badly.
So i don't know how productive it will be to just ask people if they're rational. And if you actually intend to call them out on their claims and find out if they are... watch out. |
That's very true... I was just trying to get people to think... 
| Lobo23 wrote: |
| That's very true... I was just trying to get people to think... |
Yes, i've tried that in the past, too, and got nothing but grief for it. Some people want to think the way they do now without being challenged... and they do not want to hear that they might be wrong.
But, if you're prepared to suffer the slings and arrows, i say go for it. i do. if i manage to teach even one person how to think critically, then i've made a hell of an accomplishment, in my opinion.Indi, between you and Bikerman, I've certainly learned to be more critical in my thinking. I have to think a lot more about what I post, because if I can't back up my reasoning you or he will certainly point out where I'm wrong. I've also gotten a lot better about checking my facts and citing my sources.
And I want to thank both of you for the challenge 
| Indi wrote: |
| Lobo23 wrote: | | That's very true... I was just trying to get people to think... |
Yes, i've tried that in the past, too, and got nothing but grief for it. Some people want to think the way they do now without being challenged... and they do not want to hear that they might be wrong.
But, if you're prepared to suffer the slings and arrows, i say go for it. i do. if i manage to teach even one person how to think critically, then i've made a hell of an accomplishment, in my opinion. |
Well... I've done it in the past by saying the same things I'm posting. I've then become friends with that person and they continue to think for themselves instead of follow mindless things, like a drone. It may not work more than once, but there's a slight chance it may. Especially if it's in a philosophy discussion forum.
Goodluck to me I guess...-_-;What do I think? How much time have you got. I would say there are times when I think to much. I am a sceptic until I can have the proof of something, even with things I believe in. I know that must sound weird, so I'll explain. I believe in spirits (ghosts), I had one at my house long enough, she's in visitation now rather than here all the time. Anyway, when things have happened, things which are the sort she would do, I look for other answers first. Only when I am sure there is not another cause will I accept it's her.
As for religion, mine challenges you to think for yourself. Although there are certain things we all beieve in, we are challenged to discover the truth of it for ourselves. I suppose you could call it a journey of discovery. I'm a pagan Druid, not one of the really militant ones like Arthur Pendragon although I can see we need people like him who are willing to argue against things they believe are wrong. I don't believe in other religions because there are things about them I can't believe.
We have to accept there are people more knowledgable than us. If we have any sense we will listen to what they have to say, and if we can see the truth in it, then we should learn from them and grow as human beings.
| woundedhealer wrote: |
What do I think? How much time have you got. I would say there are times when I think to much. I am a sceptic until I can have the proof of something, even with things I believe in. I know that must sound weird, so I'll explain. I believe in spirits (ghosts), I had one at my house long enough, she's in visitation now rather than here all the time. Anyway, when things have happened, things which are the sort she would do, I look for other answers first. Only when I am sure there is not another cause will I accept it's her.
As for religion, mine challenges you to think for yourself. Although there are certain things we all beieve in, we are challenged to discover the truth of it for ourselves. I suppose you could call it a journey of discovery. I'm a pagan Druid, not one of the really militant ones like Arthur Pendragon although I can see we need people like him who are willing to argue against things they believe are wrong. I don't believe in other religions because there are things about them I can't believe.
We have to accept there are people more knowledgable than us. If we have any sense we will listen to what they have to say, and if we can see the truth in it, then we should learn from them and grow as human beings. |
That is one of the best posts I've ever seen in my entire times as a forum lurker. And I am very pleased to find that druidism isn't as rare as I thought it was 
And the world needs skeptics. There is nothing that can be proven wrong without a skeptic's judgement. Anyone can accept anything unseen without any opinion stating it is false. | Quote: |
That is one of the best posts I've ever seen in my entire times as a forum lurker. And I am very pleased to find that druidism isn't as rare as I thought it was
|
Wow, thank you Lobo. Druidism isn't rare at all. I've met Druids from all around the world. I used to think it strange that people from other countries should become Druids instead of taking up their own country's indiginous beliefs, but then I thought about all the people who originated from Celtic countries who moved to new countries, taking their beliefs with them. Now it doesn't seem so strange. The ancient Druids were incredibly knowledgable and wise and now I see it would be wrong for all that knowledge and wisdom to be lost to the world. | woundedhealer wrote: |
| Quote: | That is one of the best posts I've ever seen in my entire times as a forum lurker. And I am very pleased to find that druidism isn't as rare as I thought it was
|
Wow, thank you Lobo. Druidism isn't rare at all. I've met Druids from all around the world. I used to think it strange that people from other countries should become Druids instead of taking up their own country's indiginous beliefs, but then I thought about all the people who originated from Celtic countries who moved to new countries, taking their beliefs with them. Now it doesn't seem so strange. The ancient Druids were incredibly knowledgable and wise and now I see it would be wrong for all that knowledge and wisdom to be lost to the world. |
I thought that too. And I've also heard that in ancient times being druid was just a social rank of a very knowledgable person. I'm not too sure. I only know very few druids, many athiests, about five or six christians, and many pagans/wiccans.
It's great to know ancient things aren't as lost as you thought they were. | Lobo23 wrote: |
I heard someone say "the only proof we have that people are actually thinking is the fact that we have book stores". or something like that.
I think people don't think enough. Not nearly enough. We've all come only so far since learning how to read in europe back three to four hundred years ago. We still act like stupid peasants with pride in a false idol kind or queen. Except we've all learned to despise our leaders, like Bush. A lot of people like bush.
What's the thing all the people who like Bush have in common? Well... most of them hunt. Most of them are for PETA. Not the good People for the ethical treatment of animals... nooo... That would make too much sense and have too much logic. I'm talking about the ignorant people who are for the "People for eating tasty animals". People like that F****ing sicken me.
So... Are you a mindless person who follows everything that CLAIMS to make sense, or are you the type of person who follows things that DO make sense, or are you the type of person who doesn't follow anything unless it makes sense to you?
Anything can be made to make sense, and that is why it is necessary to have skeptics in this world. Please for the love of whatever you believe in, even if it's atheism, tell me you think. Tell me you're skeptic to every religion unless you think it makes sense. Tell me what I don't want to hear, tell me I'm wrong. That will prove that you are thinking.
Think for yourself.
Is the world thinking today? Or are we all mindless drones following nothing into oblivion?
66 thousand people will agree with me, that wolves should not be extinct, the rest of the united states seems to argue. And say the wolves are bad, for eating the cattle that tastes good and makes you fat and gives you cancer. Hell... I could go on and on the facts about eating meat, but I'm not going to get into that in this post. I'm talking about thinking.
I know for sure I think. I've written papers that are made to define reality. If I wasn't lazy I'd write books based on what I thought. But I have a life. Do you think?
What DO you think? |
I would like you to made a book on something you dont thought 
I think people do think a lot, a lot about themselves and there own direct lives mostly and to a certain extent who can blame them, I have had to leave what I'm doing here (typing) because of "life" around me more than once , theres just no getting away from it !.
I would agree though people do not ponder things enough, accept to much on face value and are to ready to accept the trinkets of life.
You have got me to thinking though what makes it ok for animals to eat meat (wolves) and not humans .... you seem to infer eating meat is irrational ,but as you say that could be for another post.
| Jinx wrote: |
Indi, between you and Bikerman, I've certainly learned to be more critical in my thinking. I have to think a lot more about what I post, because if I can't back up my reasoning you or he will certainly point out where I'm wrong. I've also gotten a lot better about checking my facts and citing my sources.
And I want to thank both of you for the challenge |
I would also add between the pair of them ( and a few others ) they have rekindled my interest in science(s). | Lobo23 wrote: |
I heard someone say "the only proof we have that people are actually thinking is the fact that we have book stores". or something like that.
I think people don't think enough. Not nearly enough. We've all come only so far since learning how to read in europe back three to four hundred years ago. We still act like stupid peasants with pride in a false idol kind or queen. Except we've all learned to despise our leaders, like Bush. A lot of people like bush.
What's the thing all the people who like Bush have in common? Well... most of them hunt. Most of them are for PETA. Not the good People for the ethical treatment of animals... nooo... That would make too much sense and have too much logic. I'm talking about the ignorant people who are for the "People for eating tasty animals". People like that F****ing sicken me.
So... Are you a mindless person who follows everything that CLAIMS to make sense, or are you the type of person who follows things that DO make sense, or are you the type of person who doesn't follow anything unless it makes sense to you?
Anything can be made to make sense, and that is why it is necessary to have skeptics in this world. Please for the love of whatever you believe in, even if it's atheism, tell me you think. Tell me you're skeptic to every religion unless you think it makes sense. Tell me what I don't want to hear, tell me I'm wrong. That will prove that you are thinking.
Think for yourself.
Is the world thinking today? Or are we all mindless drones following nothing into oblivion?
66 thousand people will agree with me, that wolves should not be extinct, the rest of the united states seems to argue. And say the wolves are bad, for eating the cattle that tastes good and makes you fat and gives you cancer. Hell... I could go on and on the facts about eating meat, but I'm not going to get into that in this post. I'm talking about thinking.
I know for sure I think. I've written papers that are made to define reality. If I wasn't lazy I'd write books based on what I thought. But I have a life. Do you think?
What DO you think? |
I feel sort of like indi but...in some sense it is thought or thinking that is responsible for the sad state the world is in today...of course, it's also responsible for amazing technology, incredible advances in science, medicine, etc...but it's also responsible for war, nuclear bombs, etc...
our culture teaches people what to think and not how, and when i say 'our' culture i mean every culture on the planet...our schools teach children to follow just like our organized religions do...know your place is important if you want a good job, etc...
I feel we think too much and don't observe enough...I feel our brains are working all the time and are never quiet and observant...I'd say the problem is that we think too much and not that we don't think enough...I feel that thought is the root of all our psychological problems but we fool ourselves into 'believing' it has the answer to them all...
I don't mean to contradict your notion of people not thinking enough, it's just for me the thinking isn't what's important, it's the ability to see and to see clearly and thought is a hotbed of contradiction...defining seeing clearly isn't easy either...like indi said and i quote...
"Most, if not all, people believe that they are perfectly logical, and that everything they believe, they believe for rational and well-considered reasons... even when that's entirely false."
one cannot show one how to see clearly, that's something one must do for oneself...
I feel that the first step is to be free psychologically and that's the hardest step...it's only then that one can observe without prejudice, without the weight of the past, to observe now, without thinking, to look for oneself...I wonder if you know anyone that can do that...
Mi think another way we know peiople are thinknig is by the way we have people like vegans, or vegetarians, and protestors for human rights
people who think they want something to change, and think they will do something about it.
so thats i think another way we can see people think..?
| Quote: |
| And I've also heard that in ancient times being druid was just a social rank of a very knowledgable person. |
They were much more than that. That knowledge took them up to 19 years to learn. They were the doctors, judges, teachers, scientists, priests, historians, reporters, etc. They were second in importance only to the king, and as they were also the kings advisers, they were often even more important than the king. | Yantaal wrote: |
i think another way we know peiople are thinknig is by the way we have people like vegans, or vegetarians, and protestors for human rights
people who think they want something to change, and think they will do something about it.
so thats i think another way we can see people think..? |
yay. I'm mentioned.
I'm vegetarian
I kind of agree, but these are people thinking of mostly only one subject. The subject of the betterment of our own mankind and the world. I don't think quite so microcosmically most of the time, I think of the betterment of myself because that is who will always be with me, the only thing that I know will always be me. But that does not mean I should kill others for my own path. I'm vegetarian because it helps, and it's a simple thing to do along my own path I'm paving in life.
I think leaders, not followers, are a sign that people are thinking. Not just anyone who leads though, I mean the people who think about the here and now and every instance of it, then every possible outcome, then more indepth to that. I hate following, but I also hate leading, so I like soloing it all, alone, whether it's school, work, the internet, or video games. When I do that, though, I normally ponder upon that specefic instance of reality to the point of insanity.
I can't even say that I'm thinking though, I often feel like I'm just a parrot repeating what others say. Repeating what others say. mmm... crackers...
| Quote: |
Quote:
And I've also heard that in ancient times being druid was just a social rank of a very knowledgable person.
They were much more than that. That knowledge took them up to 19 years to learn. They were the doctors, judges, teachers, scientists, priests, historians, reporters, etc. They were second in importance only to the king, and as they were also the kings advisers, they were often even more important than the king. |
Well... That is just a definition extension to what I was saying. A social rank of a "very" knowledgable person. Though... I guess saying it the way I was is kind of like just shrugging long years of constant learning and work off as nothing, when it really was something that a king would feel lesser in power to.I personally believe that some people are inheritently (Spelling?) unable to form opinions or make conclusions for themselves. Be it from apathy or what-have-you ... they must be told what to do, how to act, and what to think.
In theory, we do need followers for there to be leaders.
| Soulfire wrote: |
I personally believe that some people are inheritently (Spelling?) unable to form opinions or make conclusions for themselves. Be it from apathy or what-have-you ... they must be told what to do, how to act, and what to think.
In theory, we do need followers for there to be leaders. |
Yes, but we don't need blind followers.
A leader that has to justify their position to critical followers requires more intelligence - and a more completely and coherently defined cause - than a leader that can rely on uneducated obedience. Followers that question and challenge their leaders encourage the creation of better leaders. | Lobo23 wrote: |
I heard someone say "the only proof we have that people are actually thinking is the fact that we have book stores". or something like that.
I think people don't think enough. Not nearly enough. We've all come only so far since learning how to read in europe back three to four hundred years ago. We still act like stupid peasants with pride in a false idol kind or queen. Except we've all learned to despise our leaders, like Bush. A lot of people like bush.
What's the thing all the people who like Bush have in common? Well... most of them hunt. Most of them are for PETA. Not the good People for the ethical treatment of animals... nooo... That would make too much sense and have too much logic. I'm talking about the ignorant people who are for the "People for eating tasty animals". People like that F****ing sicken me.
So... Are you a mindless person who follows everything that CLAIMS to make sense, or are you the type of person who follows things that DO make sense, or are you the type of person who doesn't follow anything unless it makes sense to you?
Anything can be made to make sense, and that is why it is necessary to have skeptics in this world. Please for the love of whatever you believe in, even if it's atheism, tell me you think. Tell me you're skeptic to every religion unless you think it makes sense. Tell me what I don't want to hear, tell me I'm wrong. That will prove that you are thinking.
Think for yourself.
Is the world thinking today? Or are we all mindless drones following nothing into oblivion?
66 thousand people will agree with me, that wolves should not be extinct, the rest of the united states seems to argue. And say the wolves are bad, for eating the cattle that tastes good and makes you fat and gives you cancer. Hell... I could go on and on the facts about eating meat, but I'm not going to get into that in this post. I'm talking about thinking.
I know for sure I think. I've written papers that are made to define reality. If I wasn't lazy I'd write books based on what I thought. But I have a life. Do you think?
What DO you think? |
As far as I see you are afraid that people have lost the power of independent thinking.
I would Agree.
I can relate to most of your views, even in other topics, this one is no exception.
People nowadays are more educated, so you would think they think more. wrong.
I think there is a difference beetween being educated and being smart. Educated simply means you know stuff, being smart means you know how to use it. Englis in schools is meant to teach people to think and communicate. it fails valiantly. Students still get high grades, but they themselves dont change. People simply refuse to think. i dont know why.
People act on their emotions, gut feelings and moods. they are too self-centered to try and understand anything but how they feel and what they want at that particular point. Selfish, arrogant and ignorant, brutes who dont question anything and stand for nothing themselves. Morality no longer exists, honesty was replaced by lies to dominate one another on this piece of earth of a planet.
I do wonder, how i sometimes see the good side of humanity and manage to get up in the mornings, I guess it's a miracle of hope. But im cynical and sceptic at my age of 17, and hope is shaded already. what can possibly the future hold?
Well, I will be up tomorow morning knowing I at least answered an important question (for me), that I do think, logicaly, perhaps too much, perhaps not in an entirely correct way, but I think, and I wrote this in the hope that my words, however clumsily they might have been compossed together will make other people think, think as they look around them, think, and then try to change things that are wrong, like I tried today.
I would write more, but I believe it is pointless. although I might later.
keep well,
