English have imposed all over the world as the common international language. It is affecting also the developement of other idioms. The same thing has happened before with another languages and cultures, and every language in the (occidental) world is influenced in a constructive manner by another languages. I think the evolution of idioms is a fascinating issue. I don't think the lenguage in the world will evolve to a unique one, but wonder if the number of dofferent idioms will remain the same?
Evolution of languages.
| ptolomeo wrote: |
| English have imposed all over the world as the common international language. It is affecting also the developement of other idioms. The same thing has happened before with another languages and cultures, and every language in the (occidental) world is influenced in a constructive manner by another languages. I think the evolution of idioms is a fascinating issue. I don't think the lenguage in the world will evolve to a unique one, but wonder if the number of dofferent idioms will remain the same? |
I don't like the English language very much, but I am too lazy to make another language.
The context today is quite different from what it was centuries ago. Where Latin or Greek couldn't be widely used outside of the educated world, English is widely used by a large number of population.
The evolution of languages is indeed something fascinating. Just to think that, originally, most of the european languages came from one single root (indo-european) leads to wonder. I have also heard that, with some kind of program, an european could learn to understand a related language (like a French understanding either Italian, Spanish or Portuguese) in 24 hours or a non-related language (the same French regarding English, Dustch, German, Russian, Swedish, etc.) in 48 hours. Thus, two people having followed these courses would be able to understand eachother using their own languages!
But language is a big issue too. Of course, from the point of view of Quebec, it's a debate that has been going on for centuries. We are a French minority lost in a sea of English, but we keep speaking our language. In 1977, after a few other linguistic laws, our governement created the 101 law, which was aimed at promoting French and truly making it the common language in workplaces and the likes. I heard that France is slowly going throught the same process, as the influence of English is truly disadvantaging French-only speakers. This is where the context becomes dangerous: it is not because of English, but because of extended communications. Other languages become at risk.
To answer clearly the question, there will still be many idioms, but their number will probably dramatically drop.
The evolution of languages is indeed something fascinating. Just to think that, originally, most of the european languages came from one single root (indo-european) leads to wonder. I have also heard that, with some kind of program, an european could learn to understand a related language (like a French understanding either Italian, Spanish or Portuguese) in 24 hours or a non-related language (the same French regarding English, Dustch, German, Russian, Swedish, etc.) in 48 hours. Thus, two people having followed these courses would be able to understand eachother using their own languages!
But language is a big issue too. Of course, from the point of view of Quebec, it's a debate that has been going on for centuries. We are a French minority lost in a sea of English, but we keep speaking our language. In 1977, after a few other linguistic laws, our governement created the 101 law, which was aimed at promoting French and truly making it the common language in workplaces and the likes. I heard that France is slowly going throught the same process, as the influence of English is truly disadvantaging French-only speakers. This is where the context becomes dangerous: it is not because of English, but because of extended communications. Other languages become at risk.
To answer clearly the question, there will still be many idioms, but their number will probably dramatically drop.
Language is an old and long-developed concept; the reason why foreign languages are so difficult to learn is because there are so many irregularities and exceptions, not to mention complex writing systems. I have had enough experience studying Hebrew, Arabic, French, Japanese, and Korean to confirm that learning a particular language depends on which languages you already know. Each language presents you with a different set of challenges, including differences in pronunciation, vocabulary, grammar, spelling and writing system. Generally, the more differences there are, the harder a language is to learn, though there isn't necessarily a simple correlation between interlingual distance and the difficulty learning.
I do not think the world needs an international language, especially in an era of very advanced technology, where we can get computers to understand and translate anything (if not now, then in only a few years).
I do not think the world needs an international language, especially in an era of very advanced technology, where we can get computers to understand and translate anything (if not now, then in only a few years).
The English language is definately trying to be the unversal language.
The French language is one of many languages that is being "distorted" by the english language.
The French Acadmey was founded in 1635 be Cardianl Richelieu, to try and keep the French language pure and uncorrupted. They wanted to make a dictionary of all the French words, but the members decided to root out the "vulgar" words (aka English.)
Here are just some words that I found :
Le baby-sitter, le boss, le bulldozer, bye-bye, le cash flow, le cocktail, le cowboy, le drive-in, le fast-food, etc.
I think that if people want to use English in their own words and for advirtisments, that they should. But I also think it is a good idea to keep a record of the pure words themselves, that way a culture doesnt lose their whole language.
The French language is one of many languages that is being "distorted" by the english language.
The French Acadmey was founded in 1635 be Cardianl Richelieu, to try and keep the French language pure and uncorrupted. They wanted to make a dictionary of all the French words, but the members decided to root out the "vulgar" words (aka English.)
| Quote: |
| In 1992 the French parliament passed a law actually making it illegal to use non-French words in contracts, billboards, advertisements, and instructions for appliances. |
Here are just some words that I found :
Le baby-sitter, le boss, le bulldozer, bye-bye, le cash flow, le cocktail, le cowboy, le drive-in, le fast-food, etc.
I think that if people want to use English in their own words and for advirtisments, that they should. But I also think it is a good idea to keep a record of the pure words themselves, that way a culture doesnt lose their whole language.
| silverGFX wrote: |
|
Here are just some words that I found : Le baby-sitter, le boss, le bulldozer, bye-bye, le cash flow, le cocktail, le cowboy, le drive-in, le fast-food, etc. I think that if people want to use English in their own words and for advirtisments, that they should. But I also think it is a good idea to keep a record of the pure words themselves, that way a culture doesnt lose their whole language. |
Especially when there is an equivalent in the other language, even if some of the words you quoted are accepted in French. Here is the same list but translated (when possible, and I might be wrong for some): le gardien d'enfant, le patron, le bulldozer (couldn't find an equivalent for this one), au revoir, les mouvements financiers (never heard a French-speaker use that expression before, though), le cocktail/punch (both English words but there was no French equivalent for these), le cowboy, la commande à l'auto, la restauration rapide, etc.
Of course there are words that come from English and have no equivalent, like bulldozer, cocktail (you're sure this originally comes from English?) or cowboy (which refers to an America-specific reality). The same goes for pancake, which is accepted in French, as it is not the same thing as our crêpes, and thus tells us about a foreign reality. In this particular context, borrowings from other languages, including English, are good. But when you can avoid using English terms without being misunderstood, you should try to.
| silverGFX wrote: | ||
| The English language is definately trying to be the unversal language.
The French language is one of many languages that is being "distorted" by the english language. The French Acadmey was founded in 1635 be Cardianl Richelieu, to try and keep the French language pure and uncorrupted. They wanted to make a dictionary of all the French words, but the members decided to root out the "vulgar" words (aka English.)
Here are just some words that I found : Le baby-sitter, le boss, le bulldozer, bye-bye, le cash flow, le cocktail, le cowboy, le drive-in, le fast-food, etc. I think that if people want to use English in their own words and for advirtisments, that they should. But I also think it is a good idea to keep a record of the pure words themselves, that way a culture doesnt lose their whole language. |
About five years ago I read a book on English in particular and the evolution of languages. (Sorry, I really don't remember what it was called.) The author gave a number of examples of words that the French academy objected to being used in French; "teenager" was one, and I think "jeans" was another. Well, it turned out that there are a number of words the French Academy objects to whose roots are actually French! The French came to England, their words were adapted, bastardized, and changed through time, and now are so unrecognizable that they're considered foreign. The author was making the point that it's kind of absurd to try and stop a language from changing, and the defenders of "pure" languages have taken their campaign to an absurd extreme. Even if English words weren't influencing French, the language would still change. It's natural. So I'm not trying to insult and nationalist Quebecois campaigns, but I am saying, good luck keeping your language unchanged through the next couple centuries.
| hangfromthefloor wrote: |
| Language is an old and long-developed concept; the reason why foreign languages are so difficult to learn is because there are so many irregularities and exceptions, not to mention complex writing systems. . |
By foreign do you mean other than English?
English is certainly full of irregularities and exceptions.
The English alphabet though, which comes from the Latin alphabet, is indeed easier to read and write than Mandarin or Thai. This does not necessarily mean that it is consistent though, for example:
I am reading a book about reeds, have you read it?
No I don't know that book, but I am writing a book about the rights of psychiatrists.
Talk about inconsistencies of spelling and pronunciation. Then we have the irregular verbs, what a nightmare for foreign students.
Many foreign languages use the same alphabet as English though so they are not as difficult to master. English Grammar is actually more complex than many of the European languages. Most English speakers never actually master all the grammar.
I want to learn another language but I a trying to decide what. And btw I've always been told that English is the most irregular language.
| greatfire wrote: |
| I want to learn another language but I a trying to decide what. And btw I've always been told that English is the most irregular language. |
It is. I've spent a lot of time learning French, Spanish, German, and Deutsch; and i have to tell you, they are a lot easier to learn than English. I mean, even to this day I am still learning things about the English language and I've had it since I started school!
Most foreign (other than English) languages are somewhat similar in structure, so if you master one the others are much easier to learn. Unlike English, where if you master it you actually have more trouble learning other languages.
If I had to be a spokesperson for the English language, I'd highly suggest it, but only because it is vastly becoming an internationally-accepted language. If it wasn't, learning English would be the stupidest decision you'd ever make. Most English-speaking people (or at least the educated, or ones you want to talk to, ones) learn other languages anyways.
I don't think it will ever become the standard language, unless everyone on Earth decides to give-in to the US and England and just drop all of their cultures (not going to happen).
God bless
,
Pampoon
I think that English is already the international language that connects all countries together.
Otherwise, the UN have accepted Arabic, Spanish, French and Chinese besides English I think ...
Otherwise, the UN have accepted Arabic, Spanish, French and Chinese besides English I think ...
| ptolomeo wrote: |
| English have imposed all over the world as the common international language. It is affecting also the developement of other idioms. The same thing has happened before with another languages and cultures, and every language in the (occidental) world is influenced in a constructive manner by another languages. I think the evolution of idioms is a fascinating issue. I don't think the lenguage in the world will evolve to a unique one, but wonder if the number of dofferent idioms will remain the same? |
Actually You are right when you say the English has imposed all other languages
You would be surprised to know that My mother tongue in Tamil, I speak Hindi and Malayalam
But my language of ease is always English
Have you ever wondered what language I think in
I think with ease in English and most times talk to myself too in English
But believe me if we look at the distant future
It is possible that Japanese, Mandarin or Hindi may prevail over English
Nothing is permanent
I don't know whether anyone here would find this interesting, but I have been learning about and playing a bit with using E-prime. As I understand it, E-prime takes English and eliminates the verb "to be", in all its forms. So you can't assign labels such as "He is lazy" or "That is exciting". You have to describe the actions or qualities a person or thing might have without implying that the person or thing only has that identity.
I don't understand e-prime fully myself yet, but I do enjoy paying attention to what I write and what I say and noticing how often I use "to be" by default! I think as I have practiced using E-prime, that my thought patterns have started shifting a little bit, so that I do think of people and things differently...
You can learn more at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime
Enjoy!
Scrub
I don't understand e-prime fully myself yet, but I do enjoy paying attention to what I write and what I say and noticing how often I use "to be" by default! I think as I have practiced using E-prime, that my thought patterns have started shifting a little bit, so that I do think of people and things differently...
You can learn more at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime
Enjoy!
Scrub
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