The other day I had to consult my doctor and we talked about science, comparing physics with medicine, in his opinion medicine is not a science, the only thing physicians do is statistics, human biology is so complex that quantitative predictions are almost imposible.
Is medicine a science?
Practicing medicine isn't necessarily a science, but medical practices are certainly informed by scientific research. In fact, I believe that all doctors in the US need to publish one paper in a scientific journal (be it a case study or a research paper) in order to become licensed as specialists.
Your doctor is also wrong about the impossibility of making quantitative predictions regarding human health issues. If it was, in fact, impossible, it would also be impossible to be a doctor, because treatment relies on a doctor's educated expectation of clinical prognoses and responses to medication. You contradict yourself, in fact, because statistics are quantitative predictions.
Sometimes science enters directly into medical practice. For example, patients interested in experimental therapies may elect to participate in medical experiments. Those experiments are proper science.
Your doctor is also wrong about the impossibility of making quantitative predictions regarding human health issues. If it was, in fact, impossible, it would also be impossible to be a doctor, because treatment relies on a doctor's educated expectation of clinical prognoses and responses to medication. You contradict yourself, in fact, because statistics are quantitative predictions.
Sometimes science enters directly into medical practice. For example, patients interested in experimental therapies may elect to participate in medical experiments. Those experiments are proper science.
There is actually a well defined term "Medical Sciences", so good medicine IS a science. Making diagnosis involves analysis of symptoms and the making of conclusions.
Good/educated analysis leads to better conclusions and proper treatment regimen.
Yes, medicine (besides being based solely on scientific advancements) is on it's own, a Science.
Good/educated analysis leads to better conclusions and proper treatment regimen.
Yes, medicine (besides being based solely on scientific advancements) is on it's own, a Science.
Statistics is merely a tool, it is not a result. If your doctor could see far enough, he would have realized that someone out there in the world takes these numbers and makes sense of them. Science is the formulation and testing of hypotheses, and from those tests, conclusions and theories. It is based on the thought that the object to be tested can be proven wrong.
Aside from that, before medicine is FDA approved, someone has spent years, even decades, in a lab rigorously testing every possible facet of the drug. If it passes preclinical trials, the drug then enters several stages of clinical trials, where the central questions are "is this drug safe for human consumption?" "is it better than previously existing drugs out there?" and "how much this drug should we recommend people take?"
To be blunt, medicine is a science. Humans are the subjects.
Aside from that, before medicine is FDA approved, someone has spent years, even decades, in a lab rigorously testing every possible facet of the drug. If it passes preclinical trials, the drug then enters several stages of clinical trials, where the central questions are "is this drug safe for human consumption?" "is it better than previously existing drugs out there?" and "how much this drug should we recommend people take?"
To be blunt, medicine is a science. Humans are the subjects.
Maybe I should see another doctor....
| ptolomeo wrote: |
| Maybe I should see another doctor.... |
lol.
I think what he was trying to say was that it was not the same as "F=ma". You measure the mass, multiply by the acceleration and you get the force applied.
What you do is a statistical analysis of a patient. You look at their symptoms, and then use your experience or some other method to decide what the 'most likely' cause is.
What I think he meant is that its not a caseof turning a handle and cranking out a numerical result. You can have 3 patients all with identical symptoms and yet they do not neccessarily all have the same thing wrong with them.
David.
yes.. coz is a part of science.. if have no science no medicine......
Medicine is a profession with a basis in science; it is, in itself, not science. Medicine (being defined here as medical practice) is a glorified mechanic position, just rather than inorganic machines, they work on living ones. Medical doctors are glorified technicians.
As mentioned above, there is a scientific medical field, but it is research based, not practice based. "...human biology is so complex that quantitative predictions are almost imposible"
This I completely disagree with
Human biology is no more complex than any other given complex species biology... We quantize human biological reactions all the time in in various research fields; epidemiology, for example, is essentially a statistical study of human biological reactions, spread of infectious diseases, effects of disease, etc. If something can be quantized for any other biological system, it can be quantized for humans. We're really not special biologically.
Medical scientists are rarely medical doctors, however, and a clinic is not a research facility (some exceptions may apply).
As mentioned above, there is a scientific medical field, but it is research based, not practice based. "...human biology is so complex that quantitative predictions are almost imposible"
This I completely disagree with
Human biology is no more complex than any other given complex species biology... We quantize human biological reactions all the time in in various research fields; epidemiology, for example, is essentially a statistical study of human biological reactions, spread of infectious diseases, effects of disease, etc. If something can be quantized for any other biological system, it can be quantized for humans. We're really not special biologically.
Medical scientists are rarely medical doctors, however, and a clinic is not a research facility (some exceptions may apply).
| Ankhanu wrote: |
| Medical scientists are rarely medical doctors, however, and a clinic is not a research facility (some exceptions may apply). |
I'm not sure that's true. Many research hospitals are both hospitals and research institutions, where research interests range from gathering data on conventional procedures, collecting additional samples from patients, and performing experimental proceedures. All the while, normal hospital practice is happening. Having worked as a research assistant in a true research hospital (albeit a veterinary hospital) at a major, top-teir University, I feel confident in saying that there is no true line between research and clinical practice in research hospitals. There are clear examples of pure research and pure clinical practice, but plenty of grey areas, too.
I also think that a vast majority of clinical and medical researchers at hospitals also hold both medical degrees and doctorates of philosophy. Many are also practicing clinicians. There are some who have only PhDs, but they seem to me to be the exceptions, rather than the rule.
Might depend on the (city) centers you're using to comment on proportions of MDs, PhDs and those with both as well. Major centers will attract more researchers than smaller centers. I think I've encountered few MDs with a PhD... but I'm also not into the medical field; I'm an entomologist/ecologist. I think there is a bit of a distinction between how clinical trials are handled between veterinary systems and human systems; there's a bit more regulation in how research may be carried out with people than with animals; but I'm basing that on discussions with veterinary graduate students and medical students more than actual personal observation.
We have to keep in mind that we're discussing this internationally as well... which can have a large impact, given how widely medical systems vary.
We have to keep in mind that we're discussing this internationally as well... which can have a large impact, given how widely medical systems vary.
Having never worked in a human hospital, I'd still say that the actual clinical practice isn't that different. That is to say, people aren't just randomly experimenting on people's pets to try new procedures in a way that they wouldn't with human beings. But there is a type of research not possible at human hospitals that is performed using dogs and cats as model organisms. You can do experiments on dogs and cats, and then euthanize them, or do experiments that have fatal courses. Of course, there's strict regulation, but it's obviously something you can't do to people.
Of course, I bet a lot of human hospitals have researchers doing stuff on mice. I would bet there's a different ratio of researchers to doctors at human vs. veterinary hospitals. It's hard to imagine every doctor or surgeon at a University-run research hospital is a researcher with a Ph.D. I just know that most of the researchers at the vet hospital I worked at were PhD/DVMs.
My perspective is admittedly one-sided. I worked for a couple years as a research assistant at one veterinary hospital, and I haven't talked to any of my friends who went to med school since they went to med school.
Of course, I bet a lot of human hospitals have researchers doing stuff on mice. I would bet there's a different ratio of researchers to doctors at human vs. veterinary hospitals. It's hard to imagine every doctor or surgeon at a University-run research hospital is a researcher with a Ph.D. I just know that most of the researchers at the vet hospital I worked at were PhD/DVMs.
My perspective is admittedly one-sided. I worked for a couple years as a research assistant at one veterinary hospital, and I haven't talked to any of my friends who went to med school since they went to med school.
Most of the medicines today involves an extensive knowledge and research on chemistry. There is again the effect of them on human involves the issues of life science. So there is no doubt that it is a science(medical science). It is mixture of life science and chemistry.
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