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Spoiler ridden Harry Potter discussion





sandyclaus
He there,

I'm reading Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows and want to share some discussion about it. I don't want to spoil things though... So don't tread this thread if you don't want spoilers!
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OK, I'm only to page 120 and it seems like Rowling is averaging a character exit every 20 or so pages. I also have the suspicion that Dumbledore is going to be very much alive because of the will and the flash of blue in the shard of Sirius' mirror.

I'm also very worried about Tonks and Lupin. I suspect that relationship has a tragedy sewn into it. No sign of Neville yet.

Anyhow, that's my take early in the book. Anyone else read it yet?
j_f_k
reading is slow as I'm fighting over the singly copy with JFK Jnr - oh well can't compain keeps them off the streets.

Like u I think there is more to the murder of dumbledore by snape than what it seems - it was too easy in the last book and has snape really turned - well only 1 way to find out - bunting jr off to bed so I can read it now...
Hogwarts
Just finished it Smile

Wasn't that easy... me and my sister had to "take turns" reading it.

It's actually quite a good book... although I probably shouldn't be discussing too much.. because it might spoil it for you Smile

Speed up! Then I can have somebody to talk to about it Smile

Although, sandyclaus.. The question is pressed - How were you reading the book before it was released, because according to the date of your post you're reading it one day and 30 minutes before realease. Huh? I'm getting the vibes that somebodys been downloading illicit things lately Surprised
Afaceinthematrix
I read it in about 8 hours... then I spent another 30 minutes re-reading my favorite parts... it was really good but I don't want to post anything here because I may ruin it for you.

but i did think that it was one of the weaker books in the series, because the Deathly Hallows seemed so random and it was weird that they were thrown in there... but i still liked it.
brilliantbeauty
SPOILERS

DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY READ IT.

SNAPPPPE! i have had staunch belief in his innocence from the start. And was a sev/lilly shipper since OOTP. And when he said "always" about his patronus, I lost it. The Sev/Lily was lovely. It made me cry, I think that "The Prince's Tale" was the best chapter, with its emotion combined with exposition combined with the pace.

As far as the ending, I still have mixed feelings about that. It seemed convulated and even fanfictiony, but it was still really good, even though I didn't think that she would actually make Harry a horcrux. But I was like O_____o when he came back to life. And I was really proud o Narcissa for sticking by her son.

I also finally really liked Dumbledore's character, now that he has great backstory, otherwise he was too twinkly, if you will.

I totally called the Final Battle at Hogwarts. I'm surprised that she killed Tonks though, I was pretty sure she was going to reunite the Marauders, but I guess it was a tetstament to their relationship. Like united at last after all their problems. I loved how the teachers started using their own specialties to kick ass. And Molly Weasley swore! Loudly! HA! Bellatrix had it coming, even if I do love her.

Speaking of which, I didn't expect Voldy to be so uspet at Bellatrix' death. I mean, we all know that she was seriously obsessed and in love with Voldemort, but I hadn't realized that he was so attachced to her. It makes me wonder about their relationship. I don't think either of themcould feel romantic love in such twisted personalities and unbalanced relationship, but I sense there was some fierce devotion between the two. Or she was just symbolic to his plpan crumpling, so thats why Voldy was so upset. *shrug*

And the one-liners in this book made me giggle, a lot. hee.

And Fred. Whyyyyyy?

And the epilogue was okay. I guess. Either way. it will spawn zillions of next-gen fics.
reddishblue
Yeah, I really liked it, Dumbledores whole backstory made me like him much more, before he just annoyed me with his air of superiority, but now, he seems more human.

I also thought that Snape wasn't evil, he seemed to respect Dumbledore too much in the other books, I am glad to see he didn't act totally out of character.

The epilogue was...pretty bad actually, seemed very rushed and predictable, and I don't really like Ginny very much, at all.

But it was a great book, and I enjoyed the seven hours I read it for.

Reddish (Black, in honor of all the characters that died, especially you Fred!)
kuyman
The ending seemed a little tiny bit clunky to me, like it could've been too wordy, but it didn't bother me, I just noticed it. I kept rooting for Snape through the whole book too. On a slightly related note, how much is it going to cost to make this movie? (providing they don't kill the whole story line)
Lusiphur
HUGE SPOLIERS FROM THE FINAL FEW CHAPTERS. PLEASE DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT FINISHED THE BOOK.

If do want to read, just scroll over the white text and my spoilers will be revealed Smile





Start spoiler.
The only thing that really annoyed me was the timing of Fred's death. It happened in a fast scene, and with action going on elsewhere, and with us thinking about other things we didn't have time to process it.

Fred was a good character, but his death was just greeted with a "Meh" by everyone I know that finished it (I was cursed by finishing it in about 5 hours. A full day before any of my friends had done so). Dobby's death on the other hand was perfectly done, that one made me blink and go "whoa.....what?...why?", hell even Mad Eye's had more of an impact than Freds.

The entire last chapter was a waste to me. Harry and Voldemorte (sp?) fighting each other could have been better. The whole Hallows element was also badly explained, if Harry was indeed the master of death how did this impact on his duel? What powers did it give him? Why was it so important?


So yea, apart from those parts I really liked the book, It was a fair ending to the series, and a lot of people are going to be very smug.
kuyman
I guess if I'm going to reply, I should use white too. Spoilers alert, kids!


To me Fred's death in the middle of the hysteria actually helped add depth to the whole battle going on around them and the frenzied fighting and moods. Fred was an amazing character but he went fighting for what he believed in so quickly and fiercly it actually added to his character depth.

As for Harry becoming the master of death, he LIVED after all, didn't he Very Happy . But that part of the story seemed a little chunky and hard to process, but it probably will get better when I go back and read it again.


And FIVE HOURS?
Chelissamow
Oh my gosh, I really agree with you, brilliantbeauty. The Prince's Tale was one of my favourite chapters. It was so shocking and sweet that Snape loved Lily so much.

And the very last chapter was quite cute. xD I loved how Harry named his son after Dumbledore and Snape. Does anybody know who that Victore girl is? (The one who was snogging Teddy Lupin)
Lusiphur
Spoilers etc, etc.

Maybe one of the reasons I didn't overly care about Fred's death was due to the fact I was never overly attached to the Twins as characters. In fact it wasn't until Book 5 where they start a war on Umbridge that I have ever paid attention to them, that was a great part of the story Smile

Maybe rereading about the Hallows would help me as well. But he came back to live because he had 2 souls (and I'm sorry, but that was just stupid), His own and a part of Lord V's. Unless I'm mistaken it was Lords V's part that died, and as such allowed Harry to come back. Did I pick up on that part wrong?


Yea, 5 hours. I got really into it and found it hard to put down. There is a strong chance that I feel into the bad habit of speed reading at certain parts though. More skimming through certain chapters rather than reading them all. I just really wanted to finish the book Smile
Afaceinthematrix
Who liked the ending to the book? I thought that it could have been much better. I was looking forward to a good battle between Voldemort and Harry, not just one curse that backfired on Voldemort. Harry didn't even kill him. And I was also hoping for a better epilogue that went on to describe the characters and their careers, the aftermath/reconstruction of the ministry after Voldemort's demise. But the epilogue was really short, and just showed the marriages and kids.
Afaceinthematrix
Chelissamow wrote:
Oh my gosh, I really agree with you, brilliantbeauty. The Prince's Tale was one of my favourite chapters. It was so shocking and sweet that Snape loved Lily so much.

And the very last chapter was quite cute. xD I loved how Harry named his son after Dumbledore and Snape. Does anybody know who that Victore girl is? (The one who was snogging Teddy Lupin)


The Victoie girl is the daughter of Bill and Fleur.
Genesiz
WARNING - THIS ENTRY CONTAINS SPOILERS. DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY FINISHED THE BOOK. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

I have to admit that i really liked Deathly Hallows. The whole Dumbledore idea was explained so much more than in the other books, and the way Rowling tied the Hallows idea with the plot was great.

And we finally got to find out whether Snape was good or bad. Looking back at the rest of the books, you realise now that actually it was so obvious that Snape was good. Like in HBP; Dumbledore said to Snape ' Severus, please'. Its obvious now that this could be read as Dumbledore pleading for Snape to kill him, as it is explained in DH that Snape was hesistant about doing it.

Oh and the final battle at Hogwarts. What a great place to finish it. There was so much excitement, drama and sorrow, and i think it was right to kill Voldemort there. And the final battle between everyone in the Great Hall was brilliant. Mrs Weasley killing Bellatrix, and Harry outwitting Voldemort and how the item Voldemort had sort for so long finally killing him.

Oh and it has to be asked. Which Hallows item would you choose if you could?

For me it would have to be the Elder Wand. Surely if it was all powerful you could make yourself completely invisible or bring people back from the dead.
Roald
Whoootiedeeee, just finished it, and although some people keep telling that it was a bad book, and that they were disappointed in J.K. Rowling, and so on...

But I really liked the book, it's some way better then the previous ones (especially than the Order of the Phoenix), it's somehow more adult. And of course a happy end is always fun.(copy this somewhere else, it's a bit of a spoiler which could spoil it for you.

SELECT THE SPOILER

And of course the epilogue, it's like it was there to show the fans that really everything was well. The last sentence was: "All was well" surely not to make anyone angry at her.

Anyway I loved this book.
Alkmania
Totally loved this book. Ofcourse the most of the plot was outlined already, you could guess that Snape was good, especially after HP6. If you would have read beyondhogwarts.com or dumbledoreisnotdead.com you would see the truth.

Although, what i didn't expect was the death of Albus Dumbledore being real. In the beginning of the book I read this passage:

'We were just talking about Mad-Eye,' Ron told Harry. 'I reckon he might have survived.'
'But bill saw him hit by the Killing Curse,' said Harry.
'Even if the Killing Curse missed, Mad-Eye still fell about a thousand feet,' said Hermione.
'He could have used a Shield Charm-'
'Fleur said his wand was blasted out of his hand,' said Harry.


Since we've never found out where Dumbledore's wand went after the 'accident' on top of that tower I just thought. 'Hey! That's the same thing that has happened to Dumbledore, so he is alive since he still had his wand'. On top of that was the mirror ofcourse.

In the end there is another passage where they are trying to enter the Gringotts Vault of Bellatrix. They speed up with their cart down the rail and the moment they are supposed to smack dead to the wall they land softly. Hermione had cast a Cushioning Charm on the wall. 'Hey, Dumbledore could have done that too!' I thought.

Well... I was wrong, since in the end Dumbledore was dead anways. Sad
Alkmania
What I forgot:

What did you find the best sentence in the book?

Mine was obvious. In the chapter you find out that Dumbledore is really dead (well.. you assume that ofcourse), King's Cross, Dumbledore and Harry have a really intense conversation about everything that Harry still wanted to say to him. Obviously, it was all some sort of hallucination, since the last sentence read:

'Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean this is not real?'

Perfect book, I loved it!!
sandyclaus
I think one of the most consistent flaws in her books for me are the "Wall 'o' exposition" that occurs somewhere in the last third of the book before Harry goes on to solve things. Of course, this time it was done after death, but it was still there.

While I was reading, I answered the ever present, "How is it?" with the one-word answer "Brutal."

As Dali described, it is a real March to Apocalypse. (That should be a ride at Disney featuring the voice of Troy McClure and an animatronic Dick Cheney, but I digress.)

Rowling averages the loss, demise, or disappearance of a named character or major location about every 20 pages. There is a major cluster near the end that helps that average, but Hedwig and Mad-Eye really bracket the physical and emotional boundaries of what Harry stands to lose right up front. They are his friends and his safety. Just a few pages before, Harry says goodbye to his family, such as they are, for the last time.

I wasn't bothered by the wandering at all, which added to the overall desperation, suspense, and self-doubt of the hero. The fact that it begins with an attack on the safest home Harry has known in the midst of the happiest moment, a wedding, really amps up the desperation.

I think the low point has to be Harry's parents' home in the hollow. When that old lady turns out to be THE snake, even his past isn't safe anymore.

I was moved by the loss of Dobby as well. I saw him in my mind at the end, ghostly alongside Obi Wan Kenobi, and Bambi's mom. Smile It really was the most effective of the deaths at changing Harry.

The missing work of what do we do now was something I didn't expect out of the book, though I would like to have seen it. How did Ron and Harry revolutionize the department?

One strange aside for me, I really don't see the attraction to Ginny. We are told Harry has these feelings by his thoughts, but he shows more concern, and conducts more action on behalf of Luna than Ginny. Even this latest film left me feeling a strong pull between them. He even blurts out one of Luna's nonsense monster names at the moment of his critical snog with Cho. Why the hell is he thinking of nargles at a time like that?

I saw where Rowling did an interview and talked about all the extra information she cut from the Epilogue. One of the fans who was there posted some out of interview material about the complications facing those kids. She certainly left room for a franchise when the royalty checks start running short.

Overall, a great ride to conclusion.
sandyclaus
Good discussion started here:

http://writingjen.livejournal.com/49502.html
missdixy
You know, I wonder what would have happened if she had chosen to kill off Harry Potter.

Someone may have tried to kill her or something, ha.
Genesiz
One can only imagine the hate letters and death threats she would have received if she'd killed Harry off. Oh and no one would ever read any of her books again, plus it would be plastered over every newspaper.

What did everyone think of the coda at the end. I thought it was a nice little ending.

But that's just my opinion.
ddukki
Was anyone else surprised at how anticlimactic the death of Voldemort was? I mean, sure, Harry came back from the dead, but Voldemort just dying like a ragdoll? No great explosion? No arms and legs scattered everywhere? I'm pretty sure the book has matured enough for more of a finish than just "boom ... he's dead".

I guess that's my only qualm about the book. Good read.
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