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Do you still live after your heart stopped beating?





yasaki
Some people say you still live for a couple of seconds after your heart stopped beating.
Does anyone agree?
Well, I do. It's possible that you still live after your heart stopped beating isn't it?
Look, when your "dead", you can't feel anything anymore. But when your heart stopped beating, there is still much fresh blood in your body. So why dieing precisly when your heart stops beating?
I personnaly think that it takes about 30 sec before you die. What you feel in that time? Nothing? Who knows..

Post what you think. And how long it takes before someone "dies'' after his heart stopped beating. And what do you feel in that time?
ocalhoun
When your heart stops beating, you live until your brain dies from lack of oxygen (which doesn't take long).

When they used to execute people by beheading, they would (in some cultures) hold up the head afterwards, and it would still be alive, looking around and moving it's mouth trying to speak, then it would die.
GSIS
For up to about 4 minutes - until lack of oxygen causes the brain to shut down.

In some cases, where sudden and extreme chilling has been involved, casualties have been successfully revived several hours after the incident with little or no brain damage. Quite often this sort of incident involves a fall into icy water. Fast chilling dramatically slows down the decay of dying brain tissue.
neroyert
People can actually live without hearts for a long time, with a mechanical heart, but really is this meant to be literal? Or is it more of a do you die with your body question?
Soulfire
Legally I think you can be pronounced dead when your heartbeat flatlines, but you are not truely dead untill brain activity ceases. There are many stories (including my friend's grandma) about people being brought back from the dead. After suffering a stroke, my friend's grandmother's heart stopped. She was pronounced dead, but was revived a few minutes later.

On the Weather Channel I heard an extraordinary story. A child fell through the ice, and was under water in the freezing ice for ~30 minutes. His body temperature was 78 degrees when he got to the hospital and his heart had stopped beating. He was revived after 3 hours of stablizing proceedures. It really changed the way hypothermia chases were treated. It turns out that the freezing water had slowed his organs enough to prolong his life. Most doctors agree that it was "just in the knick of time" ... any longer and the already minute chance the boy had of living would most likely have vanished. Simply astonishing.
Jakob [JaWGames]
I think it was when the frontal parts (our latest developed part of the brain) of your brain has stopped working, you are counted as dead even though if some inner intinctparts still are alive. According to this you can be alive after your heart has stopped.
Lord Klorel
The medical science declears that when somebody is dead as brain dead. Because the brains will interact as much possible to stimulate the body to restart the system.
But i am not specialist in this level of medical science.

There are results that bodies still can sendout live because of nerve interactions. So i proofs again that dead means brain dead.
Kaisonic
Yeah, scientifically, there is a short period after one's heart stops beating that life continues. And for the reason that everyone's stating - death is related to the brain mainly.
JeremiahSilva
Don't worry about that, you will know when your time come , the only problem for this question is that anybody that has the answer for sure is not here anymore to tell you how it feels.
Afaceinthematrix
There's really no point of further response because this topic has been answered. But how come it's in philosophy and religion? Shouldn't it be relocated to one of the science forums?
kelseymh
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
There's really no point of further response because this topic has been answered. But how come it's in philosophy and religion? Shouldn't it be relocated to one of the science forums?


Um. Apparently it is is in the "Science/Basics" forum. Is it possible to "cross-post"?
Afaceinthematrix
kelseymh wrote:
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
There's really no point of further response because this topic has been answered. But how come it's in philosophy and religion? Shouldn't it be relocated to one of the science forums?


Um. Apparently it is is in the "Science/Basics" forum. Is it possible to "cross-post"?


No. More likely a moderator read my post and then moved it. Although they usually put something to snow they moved it...
Bikerman
Yes...sorry - had a bunch of stuff to do and forgot to tag this as moved.
C.
asnani04
Yes, after the heart stops beating, we still survive for a couple of minutes. This is because of the pumped blood by heart, which takes some minutes to come to a standstill. The pulse reduces gradually, and soon all goes down to 0. And then, some time later, the person dies.
inuyasha
Of course. CPR would work if your heart stoped beating after less than 40 minutes.
Bikerman
40 minutes? Have you any evidence for anyone being brought back after that period?
The only case I know is Anna Bågenholm - a Swedish Doctor. She was trapped, whilst skiing, under ice-cold water for about 80 minutes. Because her body temperature dropped so low (down to less than 14 Centigrade), even though her heart stopped, her brain didn't need much oxygen. She was flown, apparently dead, to a hospital and her colleagues worked on her. She had 'died' at around 6.30pm. Her first recorded heart-beat was at 10:15pm - 225 minutes. She eventually recovered pretty well and is now working as a surgeon again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_B%C3%A5genholm
Ankhanu
I don't have the cases, but, it has been known... though, I think that Inuyasha is being somewhat optimistic with "would work". Based on what I'd learned during my remote/wilderness first aid courses, the chances of resuscitation working after 40 minutes, even under optimal conditions is pretty remote, but it has occurred, generally under circumstances such as Bikerman described (hypothermic cases, where cellular respiration was retarded and the body essentially goes into a near stasis... VERY rare). Generally if CPR isn't administered within ~3min (citation needed), chances of success are pretty slim, reducing more and more as the seconds tick.
therimalaya
It is amazing to hear that human can survive without heart.... But sometimes it doesn't surprise any more since there are a lot of selfish people who live there whole life without heart...
Bikerman
I was taught the same on my first-aid courses. Basically you want to 'get them going' again within a very few minutes. Of course we were also taught that you don't give-up. If you have been giving CPR for 10 minutes (and it is pretty exhausting - I've only simulated it and even that was very tiring) then you don't just decide that they are dead and stop - ideally you carry on until medics, or someone better qualified than you, arrive on the scene.
Mrs Lycos
I think that if the person starting this thread posted it in the Philosophy/religion forum, it was because he wasn't thinking about how the physical body dying would affect the living being he feels he is.
The person opening this thread didn't come back to clarify this

However, it has been clarified here how the physical body stops functioning, without "life", and still several minutes -even hours in some extraordinary cases- the person can be "brought back" to life.

So what is life then? Where is life if it wasn't on the body pronounced "dead"? How can it return?
ocalhoun
Mrs Lycos wrote:

So what is life then? Where is life if it wasn't on the body pronounced "dead"? How can it return?

Presumably, the person who pronounced them 'dead' was simply mistaken. They may have appeared quite dead, but actually been (barely) alive.
Bikerman
'Alive' seems to me to be arbitrary. I'm pretty damn sure there is no sudden cut-off between alive and dead. I don't think that life suddenly appeared, as in one day there were just organic chemicals and minerals and the next day something was alive - I just don't think it works like that and the entire notion seems to me to be a blind-alley.
It follows that I also don't think there is a sharp cut-off point between life and death. Death is usually defined as 'brain stem' death - no electrical activity in the brain-stem. You can keep a body in such a state 'alive' - as in the cells do not die - for a considerable time but it isn't what I would call a human existence. Whether it qualifies as 'life' is, I suppose, debatable. If you take the 'process' view of life - ie life is a process, not a 'thing' - then a brain-stem dead body is alive.
spinout
My heart stopped beating last year - since then I keep staring at the walls just seeing emtyness...

I am kind of wandering in a dark valley, looking around if anything, anything, will glimse at me.
Mrs Lycos
Bikerman wrote:
then a brain-stem dead body is alive.


I agree with you that it is alive, in a way any bacteria is alive if we give it the status of living being. That's why they call it a "vegetative state" - so you are alive, as much as a plant is.

It wouldn't be life as a human being. You're dead as a person. You won't behave like a person any more. You don't have that part of "life" that makes you human. Then what is that part?
Bikerman
Mrs Lycos wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
then a brain-stem dead body is alive.


I agree with you that it is alive, in a way any bacteria is alive if we give it the status of living being. That's why they call it a "vegetative state" - so you are alive, as much as a plant is.

It wouldn't be life as a human being. You're dead as a person. You won't behave like a person any more. You don't have that part of "life" that makes you human. Then what is that part?

'That part' is what we get from the complex switching network in the skull - awareness, consciousness, personality.
Blaster
I'm an EMT and I've seen CPR bring people back to life. These are people with no heart rhythm coming back to life. So you can take that how you like
inuyasha
Bikerman wrote:
40 minutes? Have you any evidence for anyone being brought back after that period?
The only case I know is Anna Bågenholm - a Swedish Doctor. She was trapped, whilst skiing, under ice-cold water for about 80 minutes. Because her body temperature dropped so low (down to less than 14 Centigrade), even though her heart stopped, her brain didn't need much oxygen. She was flown, apparently dead, to a hospital and her colleagues worked on her. She had 'died' at around 6.30pm. Her first recorded heart-beat was at 10:15pm - 225 minutes. She eventually recovered pretty well and is now working as a surgeon again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_B%C3%A5genholm

Ah, I have a bad memory. I don't know how 40 mins just came to my mind. I search it on the Internet and found it's just 4 minutes or so.
Bikerman
Well that's much more like it Smile
Actually 4 mins sounds a bit low...
Schyllic
When I was a boy in the hinterlands of Africa, my father taught me how to use the nails and the axe and let a chicken run around with its head chopped off. Which died first? Is life action, or is life thought?
ocalhoun
Schyllic wrote:
Which died first? Is life action, or is life thought?

Action, of course.

There are lots of things that are alive completely without 'thought' as such... Simple bacteria being the most extreme example.
Schyllic
If you had an artificial brain that gave you motor functions, but no emotions, you would consider yourself alive?
ocalhoun
Schyllic wrote:
If you had an artificial brain that gave you motor functions, but no emotions, you would consider yourself alive?

Of course.

Plants have no brains at all. Do you consider them alive?


(Of course, I wouldn't 'consider' anything, if the artificial brain wasn't programmed to do so.)
maxzim
Like people said before, I think you will still live until your brain is out of oxygen, which probably will not take a long time.
Flarkis
Schyllic wrote:
If you had an artificial brain that gave you motor functions, but no emotions, you would consider yourself alive?


Depends to what extent it reanimates you. If you are no smarter than a dog, than no you are not really alive any more. But if you retain the exact same cognitive ability bit just lack the emotions, than it becomes a little more tricky. I would personally say if you just remove the emotions than the person is alive.
ocalhoun
Flarkis wrote:
If you are no smarter than a dog, than no you are not really alive any more.

Are we using some definition of 'alive' I'm not familiar with?

Last time I checked, dogs (and even stupider animals) most definitely count as 'alive'.




If continuation of consciousness is what you're concerned about, if you get knocked unconscious, does that mean you're not alive?
Bikerman
Different concepts are being confused here.

Nobody is (or should be) arguing that self-awareness is required for life - if they are then, as ocalhoun says, that is a new (and bizarely unhelpful) definition of the word.
I would argue only that self-awareness, consciousness etc are necessary for INTELLIGENT life..
weed
i don't think we gonna live not more than 10 sec
StormieeJ
yasaki wrote:
Some people say you still live for a couple of seconds after your heart stopped beating.
Does anyone agree?
Well, I do. It's possible that you still live after your heart stopped beating isn't it?
Look, when your "dead", you can't feel anything anymore. But when your heart stopped beating, there is still much fresh blood in your body. So why dieing precisly when your heart stops beating?
I personnaly think that it takes about 30 sec before you die. What you feel in that time? Nothing? Who knows..

Post what you think. And how long it takes before someone "dies'' after his heart stopped beating. And what do you feel in that time?


After a car wreck my nerves and blood vessels in my neck were affected causing my heart and brain to get cut off from blood and oxygen. I was in the doctor's office doing a test and I got really cold. Everything seemed to keep getting slower, and slower. The nurses were panicking because I had flatlined and my blood pressure was 0 digitally and manually for over a minute. It's strange when your heart stops. I was techniqually 'dead', but not brain dead. Your chest feels empty and you can't breath, but you are in such a daze or like Pink Floyd said comfortably numb. Everything around you just slows down and keeps slowing down. It gets calmer and calmer almost like someone has drugged you except peaceful. You want to go to sleep. Sounds around sound muffled and distant, and gets slower as well. My heart finally started beating again after nearly two minutes. When my heart started back up I still felt cold and my chest felt slightly cramped, but I could feel it beating.
slick_silver
First everyone Hello! I'm New and this is my first Post but I felt I must reply!

I know this thread is a bit old but just last Wednesday 2/8/02 My wife had to call an Ambulance for me because I was having A Major Heart Attack, my heart stopped 1 time just before arriving at the Hospital and the Cardiologist said My heart Stopped 6 time and they had to Shock me Back 8 Times before finally keeping my Heart at a steady beat!
I'm 51 and have had 2 Heart attacks but this one was Really the Worst Case scenario!
Clinically I was dead for at-least 5 minutes or longer 3 different times.
Your are Actually Not Dead until The Doctor Pronounces You Dead or You Loose Complete Brain Function(Brain No Longer is receiving signals from the Heart) Brain Dead!
My Cardiologist says you can start losing Brain Function after just 4 minutes but there are cases of people drowing in frozen lakes an their heart has stopped as long as 30 minutes and survived with
No Brain Function Lose at all (Not Very Common)even though many people have lived and regained a Heartbeat after 5 (as I did 3 times) or 10 & even 15 Minutes long!
Bottom line is A Cardiologist will say You Die the Moment your heart Stops the they don't give up and Clinically your Not Dead till the Brain stops functioning!

I know My story maysound a bit hard to believe and I was Home this Friday Night,just 2 days after this Major heart attack and I'm doing Great!
If you'd like Email me and I can Prove it !!

Mike E.
watchftp
You are technically not dead until your brain die.
ocalhoun
watchftp wrote:
You are technically not dead until your brain die.

Depends on your definition of 'you'.

The body can keep living brain-dead.
zhybsc
the heart beating just push the blood Rolling Eyes .......
ok,i agree pepole can feel when the heart stop beating.
MikeFromHC
International Liaison Committee on Resuscitation (ILCOR) is the home body for CPR in the world.

Without other injury if your heart stops functioning you have suffered clinical death and may be revived.
After about eight to ten minutes in most cases you suffer biological death and are completely dead.

Every minute without CPR reduces your chance by about 10%

TAKE A CPR CLASS

The rare exception to the above is called "cold water immersion syndrome". Usually this involves small and slim children and the occasional, also slim, adult. Surface area to body mass seems to be very important.

Above I mentioned "your heart stops functioning ". In most cases the heart will fibrillate (quiver like a bowl of jello), which is the reason an Automatic External Defibrillator (AED) is now considered a vital piece of equipment.
At a pre-hospital trauma care conference a few years ago I heard an emergency room doctor say that in 12 years he had never seen a person who's heart had stopped ever recover.
CPR SAVES LIVES. TAKE A CPR CLASS
As for TV...
If the monitor shows a flat line and they are doing CPR, it is a fake.
Even bad CPR will generate a rhythm on the screen.
darthrevan
I think a person can live without their heart beating but only for a few minutes or so. The main reason that a person can't live very long after the heart stops i believe is because there is no oxygen going to the brain. Without the heart pumping the blood no longer carries oxygen anymore Shhh
Iceaxe0410
One only needs to look at heart attacks and even strokes to see that a person can live if a heart stops beating. I'd guess it takes less than a minute to die and that's from the lack of oxygen to the brain. Of course, that's if one is talking about being "technically" dead. A person can be resuscitated if CPR is administered and can be revived within a certain amount of time before permanent brain damage occurs.

I'd say eventually all organs shut down from the lack of oxygen because the blood flow stops. This will be painful and eventually numbing. No way to know for sure unless if you study it in depth or experience a heart attack for yourself. I'll leave that for later in my life. I'd much rather stay alive than know the answer firsthand.
MikeFromHC
Iceaxe0410 wrote:
One only needs to look at heart attacks and even strokes to see that a person can live if a heart stops beating. .


Your heart does not stop beating in either of the above cases.
This is a technical definition in the case of a "heart attack", which may lead to heart failure but in the case of a stroke it is not (99.99%) of the time

Quote:

I'd say eventually all organs shut down from the lack of oxygen because the blood flow stops. This will be painful and eventually numbing. No way to know for sure unless


There are several ways to experience it even while the blood flow continues. If you reduce the amount of oxygen in the air you will pass out and eventually die. If, as is done with pilots in testing, you turn the O2 back on they will recover and have no memory of the event. Most are only convinced by watching a film of the event.

There is also a "choke" hold that stops flow of blood to the brain and it is essentially painless.

Pain from heart attacks reduces for most people as they age and having an attack which leads to failure might be a good way to go.
shashwatblack
i don't know how long exactly, but yea, there's fresh blood in the brain remaining, and until it is there we do have sense of everything - vision, hearing, pain, touch. i wouldn't expect it to last long though.. blood travels pretty past through our veins, and that must mean it is exhausted really quick.
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zaxacongrejo
Quote:
Do you still live after your heart stopped beating?


If dont how the hell heart transplantations are possible?
after an heart transplantation dont they, in moust cases, have normal lifes?
harrer
Yes.
Clinically, a person is considered dead only after the brain stops working.
lawrence
Look at soccer star Muamba, he had a cardiac arrest during a game. His heart stopped for 78 mins. and then started again and is still alive. I don't know how as the brain would be severly affected, but he has made substainsial recovery.
lawrence
look at soccer star Muamba, he had a cardiac arrest while playing and his hearted stopped for 78 mins. . Then his heart beat came back after 78mins. . He is still alive. strange.
cabenqc
Depends on how you define "LIVE".
I believe human brain can still sense something, especially human hearing.
Lookup some medical journals or googling to explore.
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