FRIHOST • FORUMS • SEARCH • FAQ • TOS • BLOGS • COMPETITIONS
You are invited to Log in or Register a free Frihost Account!


If you have memories "planted" do you experienceth





EanofAthenasPrime
Ok, say you are an average 30 year old person. You are abducted by some scientists who erase your memory and plant false memories, say, of you being born as an alien from another planet. Would you actually "go back in time" and to you, in real time, be born as an alien on another planet? Or would you just remember being born as an alien and never in perceived realtime being born as an alien.
Indi
When false memories are implanted using current technology, the victim doesn't suddenly have fully formed memories right away. At first, the recollection is vague and imprecise. But each time the fake event is recalled, details get added, until eventually the victim ends up with a complete, logical narrative for the memory.

So say i implanted you with the memory of being raised on an alien planet. You don't immediately go back and assimilate that lie into your memory as soon as i give it to you. At first, you'll believe me, but you won't be able to remember any details. But eventually, after you've had time to "recall" the event - without me giving you any more details at all - you will begin to "recall" lots of specific details about being raised on an alien planet, like things that happened, the colours of the place, the shapes of the buildings and so on. You will remember being there, even so far as fake memories of perceiving it in real time and "remembering" what you were thinking and feeling at the time, and you will be absolutely convinced that they are real memories.
EanofAthenasPrime
Very, very intriguing. I think this leads to the paradoxial question: How do we know "real-time" is nothing more than a planted memory?
Indi
EanofAthenasPrime wrote:
Very, very intriguing. I think this leads to the paradoxial question: How do we know "real-time" is nothing more than a planted memory?

It's not paradoxical, it is current discussion in modern philosophy.

If the mind is only a product of the material universe - that is, the mind comes from the brain only - then if the brain could be altered in a way that was indistinguishable from the way it would be altered by "real" memories, then there would be no way possible for the mind to distinguish "real" memories from implanted ones.

But if the mind has a non-physical component (note: not necessarily a "soul" - that's something that a lot of people trip over - "souls" have nothing to do with any of this), then any material alterations to the brain might not affect the non-physical aspect of mind. In that case, a mind might recognize that something is "wrong" with the fake memories when the material memories don't match the non-physical results. So far, there has been no evidence of this. That means that either the material mind is all there is, or that the non-physical mind is not capable of recognizing tampering of the material mind.

Of course, the way the brain is laid out, creating a convincing deception is really hard. The brain stores memories in a very haphazard, disorganized way - and mainly by encoding relationships and associations. In order to fool the brain you have to implant not only the knowledge of what supposedly happened... but also the relationships and associations that would have been formed in your mind when you would have experienced those things first-hand. The best way we have to do that currently is to allow victims to form those associations themselves. Instead of implanting complete memories, we implant suggestions... and the victims creates the details and associations in their mind that makes the memory "real" to them.
Bikerman
As Indi says, this is a deep area in philosophy and also in physics. I'll just give a quick overview of the physics side.

Most of the laws of physics are time symmetrical - they work regardless of the direction of time flow. At the particle/quantum level there is no directionality inherent in any of the laws - all the laws of quantum physics are time symmetrical (apart from CPT symmetry which I'll leave aside for this discussion).
In the macroscopic universe that we perceive the direction of time is normally associated with the 2nd law of Thermodynamics - entropy/disorder increases when time is measured in one direction and decreases in the other - this gives us a direction (or 'arrow') of time.
Einstein's Special Relativity also tells us that time is relative - there is no universal clock which we can measure our own time against since time changes with speed and gravity/acceleration, so each observer has their own time and this may or may not be coincidental with the time of other observers, depending on how they are moving and what their relative accelerations are.
We perceive time as 'flowing' but there is no consensus in physics about this issue. Some (most) think that time flow is illusionary and is the product of subjective perception. Theories in this vein are grouped under the heading 'myth of passage' theories. The opposite camp believe that time flow is objective and independent of perception. These theories are grouped under the heading 'dynamic theory'.
'Myth of Passage' supporters hold that things do not change intrinsically with time, only in their relationship to the observer. Time is a relationship between events but events do not 'flow' into pre-existing time frames, they simply are - events do not move.

The following links may be of interest if you want to take this further...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_space_and_time
http://www.iep.utm.edu/t/time.htm
http://mixingmemory.blogspot.com/2004/12/by-request-time-perception-i.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/flowtime.html
http://home.att.net/~Andemicael/intro.html
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/time_theory_030806.html
EanofAthenasPrime
Intriguing.
Related topics
GTA: San Andreas PC (OFFICIAL THREAD)
Soul singer Luther Vandross dies
[OFFICIAL] What are you currently reading?
Galatasaray Museum
Old DOS games
Share your best/worst christmas memories!
The Museum of Broken Memories
The Fates Are Fair
Megaman Phoenix
Why do we remember good memories and forget bad ones?
Should criminal cases always go to full trial?
Why I don't like psychics....
Do you believe the dead will be back as another person?
Fondest Memories and Things I’ll Miss...
Reply to topic    Frihost Forum Index -> Science -> General Science

FRIHOST HOME | FAQ | TOS | ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SITE MAP
© 2005-2011 Frihost, forums powered by phpBB.