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Lack of Spelling Skills...or just Lazy?





Vrythramax
Is it just me or have people just lost the lack of spelling skills? There have been many posts recently where the poster just doesn't even care how they spell. Is this a new fad? The shape of things to come?

I was under the impression that "l33t" was dead. Can't people even try anymore? One person even claimed that colege sux....huh?

I know I make many typos while typing....but at least I try to get it right.

btw...English is not my native language either.
DoctorBeaver
Oh, how I agree with you. I despair at some of the spelling I see these days. I've even seen glaring errors on allegedly educational sites. I won't name names, but I was browsing the site for a well known US university and it referred to "colliges". Mistakes from those who are not typing in their native tongue is understandable.

I know I'm guilty of a bit of "text speak" here & there (thnx, luv, lol, etc), but in general I try to get my spelling correct.

From what I've seen in the UK, spelling is not high on many schools' list of priorities. Blatant errors go unchecked - or maybe unnoticed? Perhaps the teachers cannot spell properly either.
Vrythramax
I can understand mistakes (i.e. typos), especially when one is trying to type in a language they are not native too, I can even appreciate some abbreviations...just like you mentioned, but will kills me is a blatant disregard for ANY language. Sad
truespeed
I just think its language evolving,with the advent of mobile phones and the character limit of 160,it became nessercery to improvise,which brought about text speak,which has now become part of every day written speak,i think as long as you understand what is written it doesnt really matter how its written.
guissmo
I hate people who intentionally misspell words. I try as much as possible to spell my words correctly since I can type fast. But I think it's more of an issue because they lose time when typing... so they just take shortcuts.

aS fOr ThE pEoPLe wHo tYpE LiKe THiS... I don't know what's up to them.
catscratches
1337 iz h4rd 70 r34d.

Well, english is not my native language either, so I'm sorry if I spell wrong all the time, I at least try to get it right.
Chelissamow
English is not my maiden-language either. I think people are just lazy when they type so they just shorten it up. I think it's really annoying because I don't know what people are talking about.
ThornsOfSorrow
I tend to think that a good number of people have a lack of spelling/grammar skills due to laziness. A person can only substitute "2" for "to" or "too" for so long before they mistakenly do the same thing in a school paper or some other document. In some cases, that person may even forget the difference between "to" and "too", since they don't use either of them. And of course there are other examples as well...

Spelling and grammar skills are both being disregarded, and this doesn't just happen on the internet. In both of the college English courses that I've taken so far, the professor needed to give a lecture on run-on sentences and sentence fragments because the class needed it. Maybe this is an unfair statement, but I think that students should know how to effectively communicate through writing by the time they're in college. Run-ons should be a thing of the past, especially considering that they were a focus in elementary school (at least for most people).

As far as internet forums are concerned, anyone who constantly makes mistakes while typing should really be reading over his/her posts before clicking on the "submit" button. One or two typos are fine, but when it gets to the point that a person needs to decipher your post, then you're doing something wrong. I understand that not everyone has perfect English skills, and that's fine as long as those people are trying to be as coherent as possible, but some of the spelling and grammar I've seen on forums (not just this one) is nothing short of atrocious.
Josso
Most of mine are either typos or just plain old bad spelling - sorry Laughing
pieman
I completely agree with you - the spelling of some (most) people on Internet forums today is appalling. Admittedly I use some text speak in my text messages - but I do not transfer this to my typing.

I don't think it's to do with typing speeds - most people I've come across in school/college can type pretty quickly. It's just laziness. "Why type a long word like 'speak' when you can just type 'spk'?" Because, my friend, of something called the English language.

I beg those out there who do this - STOP IT. Right now. Otherwise, I see in 10/15 years time 'spk' becoming an entry in the Oxford English Dictionary. That would be a very very sad day.

Oh and one final thought - well done to all those non-native speakers who often type more accurately than many who are brought up in an English speaking country.
Blaster
Personally max I'm just lazy. I'll surely admit that I can't spell everything correct but I know you can't either. Some people I feel just can't spell. Me, I can fairly good and all. But most of the time I'm writing down notes I'll just simply write fast so I don't necessarily spell everything correct. The same goes with when I am typing at times especially when I'm lazy or doing something else. Most of the time I'm lazy or in a rush.

So its not really being lazy but its also trying to get it done quickly.
James007
A very interesting topic concerning this issue can be found here. So let's discuss the causes inhere and the solutions over there. Very Happy

I don't accept hosting requests if the user hasn't followed our spelling rules, which can be found here by the way, so they need to watch their spelling if they want to get hosted. The spelling topic is a bit lost among all the other announcements in that forum, but I think good spelling and layout should be... convenient?

And something I always include when I reject a user because of bad spelling: "This is not MSN."
SpellcasterDX
Yes, I think it's partly schools' fault cause they don't emphasize spelling enough, so kids get lazy and don't even put in effort. Yes, I'm 14, so I'm included in this category, but I put in effort to spelling. I'll even look up how to properly spell a word if I'm not sure how to spell it. Sure, I make typos (as does everybody), but I don't use textspeak/chatspeak/1337speak/whatever it's called now so much. Except on places where they don't mind it, like on message boards. But in real life I never use any 1337speak. I always use full words, unless they can be abbreviated.
molif
it might get annoying because you might not understand what the person has to say if you type in short form even! but i am guilty of it sometimes...
standready
Personally, I think it is terrible. I don't think it is necessarily the school's fault either. I am on many message boards with ages of members ranging from teens to 70+. It drives me crazy to see people not only misspell but misuse words as well. "It was right their!" or "There cars are cool." Good grief. Ocassional typographical errors I can handle. Please look before you submit. Here, try the "Preview" button
ForceRun
I just suck at both typing and spelling, just never took the time to learn either. So please forgive you ugly looking post, but it is too late for me to change.
mOrpheuS
standready wrote:
It drives me crazy to see people not only misspell but misuse words as well. "It was right their!" or "There cars are cool." Good grief.

Laughing Those and many more ...
There are some mistakes that only a native user of the language can make.
Since they initially learn the language by hearing, unlike non-native user who initially learn by reading.
eg., "should of" instead of "should have", "your" instead of "you're" etc.
I've run across qualified engineers who make these mistakes !


Although English is not the native language at my place, it's the prominent language for business and a lot of emphasis is placed on learning it.

The teachers here teach proper grammar and to spell - the hard way.
They deduct marks for incorrect spelling even in subjects like science and social studies !
Atleast that's how it used to be back when I was in school.

Besides, with the kind of competition that we have here, things like poor language skills can become significant hurdles in one's career.

I personally don't mind typos (and most other common internet annoyances) too much, but that's probably because I'm such a nice person. Razz
Jaan
As long as we understand it. Tis annoying though.
mOrpheuS
Jaan wrote:
Tis annoying though.

It sure is. Laughing
Vrythramax
Oh please don't misunderstand me, I can deal with typos....they happen to all of us. It just seems that some people don't even try to get it right.
Bockman
mOrpheuS wrote:
There are some mistakes that only a native user of the language can make.
Since they initially learn the language by hearing, unlike non-native user who initially learn by reading.
eg., "should of" instead of "should have", "your" instead of "you're" etc.


Not all non-native users learn by reading mate. I learned (listening to) English by watching Cartoon Network, before i even entered school (from 4 years onwards).

And I DO have problems sometimes writing some of those words. although "should of" was never one of those words, i had problems choosing between "they're"", "there" and "their". Nowadays I don't usually make those mistakes due to my efforts to try and correct my English, but i understand people who occasionally choose the wrong one.

As for short writing, i don't do that all that much, except when I'm on IRC and pick up on my old habits. One of the abbreviations I always use (I did have to correct it on my first sentence on this post Wink ) is m8 (=mate). Don't know why, but it always comes out that way and i kind of like they way it stands out. (oh, and kinda="kind of" is another one I use.. just noticed it while writing this).

Also, the "i" instead of "I" is a common mistake for me.

Be Well Cool

EDIT: Couldn't help thinking of a phrase to use with those words:
"They're opening their shop there" (sound's weird when it's said out of context doesn't it?)
Seiorai
Not even don't they try, but seem to enjoy themselves when using spelling mistakes.
Personally I don't see why you should feel great when writing hieroglyphs like "typ ur dam urdz m3n" -_-
And English is not my native tongue either, but it is a great difference between making spelling/grammar mistakes because of poor knowledge of that particular language and the example above .... Rolling Eyes
jabronie25
I actually use grammar in my posts. I dont really like these slangs or short terms for words. Like wat used as What and other things like that. I rather read a post with good grammar and spelling than a post with bad grammar and spelling
Nameless
wat i thunk moostly it b lazinies tht make peeps type w/o grammer n ther stuff like that.

I don't know, to write anything LIKE the above I have to back and consciously add in grammatical and typographical errors, because I'm just used to typing, uh, legibly. If people make typos, fine. If people really can't be bothered getting the nuances of grammar correct in their posts, fine. If English isn't your first language and you make a few mistakes, fine. But if people have actually reached the point where typing in this kind of code is the default, there's something wrong with them.

Sidenote: Things like LOL are fine, IMHO. Wink
BugBear
For me personally it's 75/25 75% of the time it's lazy the other 25% is when i don't know how to spell it Smile. usually google the word and see if it corrects it as my spellcheck Very Happy hehe
Bockman
BugBear wrote:
For me personally it's 75/25 75% of the time it's lazy the other 25% is when i don't know how to spell it Smile. usually google the word and see if it corrects it as my spellcheck Very Happy hehe


Actually for you it's more like 0.75% laziness and 0.25 % not knowing how to spell it.. the remaining 99% is a careful posting attitude Laughing
Checking your posts I could easily see you take care on what and how you write your posts. that shows no laziness, specially when you try and correct possible mistakes (and yes, I sometimes google the words too Wink )

Be Well Cool
saratdear
As far as my posting goes - I don't think I make typos very much, but that is just my opinion. I am not being arrogant. Smile (Actually, is 'typo' a word? Shouldn't it be typing mistakes? Sorry, I honestly don't know)

As for other people's posts, I don't mind the occasional 'i's and 'LOL's and 'IMHO's, but I do get properly annoyed when people post something like this :

"dude..check out the sites...they are gr8 m8..cool! lol.." something like that. These people may actually know good English, but if they do this type of thing to appear 'cool', I don't think of this as cool at all. In fact, I respect the people who post in good English, and grammar more, or atleast try to.

erm...well..the opinions mentioned above are entirely my own. Embarassed
Sphaerenkern
well lol most of teh ppl don't think much about their post neither they do about teh writng because the y just want to get more potss tog et more points to get thier hp hosted u kno?

Very Happy

(In other cases, I think they're just lazy or think it's cool)
[FuN]goku
well... i use to be the best speller in my grade... i dont think thats the case anymore just cuz im in highschool and ..... actually idk cuz half my school are a bunch of drinks/pot heads so... anyways aside from that i just cba to type anything out into proper grammar and stuff on the computer... but if i was writing up an essay for example i would type it nice and neat then..
eku53ru
I used to be a pretty good speller when I was younger, but then high school came; the words they used during discussions never ceased to amaze me (and they also led me to looking up words I did not know in dictionaries more often). I want to think that English is not my native tongue either, but no one really believes that, since I was born in an English-speaking country. I learned another language first, but I am only barely aurally fluent; I get lots of cracks and jokes about how my "fluent" English is not always up to par with others my age.

I still do my best to spell things out, but due to paranoia I have a tendency to consult a dictionary on words I doubt I am spelling right before I choose to type anything up. I quit relying on Microsoft Word's auto-spellchecking ability because I think that led to a good number of mistakes my friends have been known to make (e.g., typing wierd instead of weird).
Hobbit
I actually try to write correctly. If I don't then it's a typo or a silly mistake. But it's pretty annoying seeing people not care.
James007
[FuN]goku wrote:
well... i use to be the best speller in my grade... i dont think thats the case anymore just cuz im in highschool and ..... actually idk cuz half my school are a bunch of drinks/pot heads so... anyways aside from that i just cba to type anything out into proper grammar and stuff on the computer... but if i was writing up an essay for example i would type it nice and neat then..

Anyway don't keep writing like this "cuz" you'll get an awit for it.
Vrythramax
As has been stated "typos" (no I don't think it's a real word, but it is easier than typing out the phrase "typographical errors").

Some abbreviations have become commonplace, and acceptable....most of use them (I myself am guilty of using them), but the distortion of any language, to me anyway, is not acceptable. Now I am not speaking of real spelling errors, Lord knows I make enough of them, I can't speak for the rest of the Staff, but I think we could all agree that spelling errors are going to happen, and I'm content with that, what I started this particular topic about was the abuse of language. I have much sympathy for anyone who doesn't speak English and still tries to type (post) correctly. I'll be the last person to call someone out for a common mistake.

Keep in mind all you fast typers out there, this is still a text based forum and you can look at your posts before actually posting them. Speed is not essential here. Wink
yo.hassan
well as for me, i always try to spell it correct. this way i learn too. the most hard part for me is grammar. when i was in school, english wasn't that important. although now this practice has started and people getting into it willingly. (english is not my mother tounge and my alphabets are very very diffrent. )
windrei
i quite hate the people spell the words in their self-created short form on the internet. Actually i dont know what do they mean in the very first beginning. i need to guess....

so, i don't use such short forms of words. English is already not my native language. if i used those forms, my english level would be much lower and lower till one day that i can't distinguish which form is the correct, which form is wrong... it's so trouble...

but sometimes my friends just =.='' me, as they think i am so trouble to spell all the words correctly, haha~~
rheanna
I'm just lazy. Cool Wink
krazy
i think that i am a pretty good speller
i think that people spelling like that are lazy, 2 is shorter then too or to, so they do not have as much to write
but what they don't understand is in a chat room or a forum if they speak like that their posts are likely to be ignored because people cannot read what they are trying to say.

i do find it hard when people type like that, i also have to be honest and say yes i did type like that, but then i found it hard to read myself so i came back to proper English Lol
but if i spell a word wrong i notice it nearly straight away and correct myself, but sometimes every person in this forum has to admin that they make typos at times, as it is normal to make typos.
but as i have mentioned chat speak and whatever it is called gives me an head ache trying to read it Heh
Vrythramax
rheanna wrote:
I'm just lazy. Cool Wink


At least your honest about it Laughing

Nice to see you rheanna Smile
Bluedoll
I believe non standard posts are like a fad and perhaps a wave of the future.

It's almost like another lanquage! The same thing I find when you here people speak. Words become dunno instead of don't know etc. Some people like coding their messages and staying within that culture.

Then, there are others like myself that lack the skill set to always get it right and come out with some doozies thats fur sure. Some are a work in progress but some are just dependancy on spell check. Being rushed for time or yes, plain lazyness or the attitude of who cares, no one reads this stuff anyway, leaves posts that are well - could be a lot better, maybe someday?

Hard to read posts is noticable and frankly unless the topic is good and the thought behind the post is reasonable, I tend to scan over quickly or even skip those that are looking more like random blurbs than inteligent statements.
Jinx
I try to keep my spelling and grammar correct, but sometimes I do type too fast and hit submit without checking... then I go back and edit two or three times as I see mistakes Smile
I have a hard time taking posts that use a lot of textspeak seriously. On another board where I post frequently there is a user who is very intellegent, and usually has good ideas to contribute to the conversation, but I find myself skipping over her posts rather than trying to decypher them because she uses so many abreviations.

When I was on the road as a truckdriver there was a truckstop resturaunt who's sign read "Knight's of the Road Diner", and every time I saw that sign I wanted to stop and scrape off the apostrophe! I don't know why, but that particular mistake just really irritates me to no end.
reddishblue
I always try to spell correctly and sometimes even go into Word to check if I am right, or how to actually spell it.
It annoys me that others refuse to show the same amount of care, I think this problem is most visible in the games forum, where people seem to think that using 1337 or txt speak is OK, just because they use in online games.

Maybe Frihost should have a correct spelling and grammer movement...or something. Razz
socialoutcast
I mostly try to spell correctly, but sometimes I can get a bit lazy in the department.

"The key that gets the most attention from me is the 'backspace' key."
furtasacra
truespeed wrote:
I just think its language evolving,


I don't think it's language evolving, I think it's DEvolving. If we keep on this way, ignoring grammar, spelling, and punctuation, we're going to eventually end up going back to grunting around a fire.

Quote:
with the advent of mobile phones and the character limit of 160,it became nessercery to improvise,which brought about text speak,which has now become part of every day written speak,


We may very well be grunting into cellular phones, but grunting is nonetheless grunting.

Quote:
i think as long as you understand what is written it doesnt really matter how its written.


... and there lies the problem. Guess what? It DOES matter how it's written, because not everybody understands "textspeak." Also many people (including myself) automatically disregard ideas expressed in an ignorant, careless manner.

It's perfectly proper to use "textspeak" when actually sending text messages to somebody who understands the shorthand. Any other time it is totally unacceptable.

On the other hand, in other written communications, a few typographical errors are inevitable. People also make errors in grammar, syntax, and spelling if they are not familiar with the language in which they are trying to communicate. That is excusable.

But simply being a lazy slob in your native language is not. "Textspeak" must die.
Azmo
For everyone who don't have english as their native tounge, it's not easy at all, if you don't talk/hear english every day, it's very easy to make those comon mistakes. I'm from sweden and yes, we do have good education in scool, and plenty of stuff on the TV shown in english, and I've got pretty easy to learn a new language, but not all have. And I do shorten words all the time, I use u instead of you, and ur instead of you'r, it's just something you get used to when you hang around internet alot, chatting or playing games, it has more or less become accepted to shorten words over the internet. And for us who don't have english as our native tounge, it's not that easy to correct it either, since it becomes natural to us.

I've even got a warning from James007 about me shorting words, so I'm realy trying to write as good english as I can.

Anyways, I wouldnt blaim the schools, I would blaim internet, cause internet accepted this way of spelling, not the schools.
Pikokola
As for me.... I tried my best... the worst thing from me is grammar...

I hate to write it all line like :
"Will you show me the way to the station please..."

I prefer
"Where's the station?"

And some mixed line from past, future, and perfect tenses... T___T

Ah forget about that, now Mozilla had spell checker ^^ That's (I hope) solve the problems Razz
littlegiant
I absolutely detest bad spelling. People are just plain lazy and quite frankly it's inexcusable and disrespectful. There's nothing worse than trying to plow through an email full of chatspeak and trying to figure out what the sender is really saying. The internet has ruined us for spelling and grammar. Nowadays, you can actually pay cold hard cash for an ebook and find it full of typos and grammatical errors. You would never in a bazillion years get away with this in print publishing. I think in about a hundred years from now --if things keep going on the way they're going-- we're all going to be a bunch of illiterate morons.
Bockman
littlegiant wrote:
I absolutely detest bad spelling. People are just plain lazy and quite frankly it's inexcusable and disrespectful. There's nothing worse than trying to plow through an email full of chatspeak and trying to figure out what the sender is really saying. The internet has ruined us for spelling and grammar. Nowadays, you can actually pay cold hard cash for an ebook and find it full of typos and grammatical errors. You would never in a bazillion years get away with this in print publishing. I think in about a hundred years from now --if things keep going on the way they're going-- we're all going to be a bunch of illiterate morons.


That's a very extreme way of seeing it, I think.

I used IRC "slang" for years (and I can still do it easilly) but that doesn't mean I can't write properly when needed. I try and do it in this forum (with some success I may add) to be more accurate on my comments and knowing some of us are not as good at English as are others. As me, there are many others who can write in proper English (or other language), but don't do it everywhere.

Nowadays, I use two very different write methods depending of where i'm at. Even on #frihost (our IRC channel at dal.net) I use a readable English (although not as accurate as my forum writing), while at other forums and IRC networks (and even within dal.net on other rooms) I use the oh-so-common IRC "slang" (both in English and Portuguese). I think this is a question of age and most youngsters like to write faster and "cooler". But it wears off with age Wink .

Be Well Cool

P.S. - Found out the reason for the i instead of the I .... I seem to have some problems pressing the Shift key while typing the i (yes, probably a burnt out wiring on my brain Laughing ). I never do that mistake in traditional writing.
odinstag
Vrythramax wrote:
Is it just me or have people just lost the lack of spelling skills? There have been many posts recently where the poster just doesn't even care how they spell. Is this a new fad? The shape of things to come?

I was under the impression that "l33t" was dead. Can't people even try anymore? One person even claimed that colege sux....huh?

I know I make many typos while typing....but at least I try to get it right.

btw...English is not my native language either.


I think people are just lazy.

It is so easy to spell check. Just highlight and click "check spelling". So to not do so is just laziness.

I think it is all because of the dumbing down of the population in general.
filet
I supposed we used to short form everything!!! sms, email etc

Typo should not be a problem because this forum do highlight when we incorrectly spell something, but its more about culture of short forming words or slangs!!
littlegiant
Bockman wrote:
littlegiant wrote:
I absolutely detest bad spelling. People are just plain lazy and quite frankly it's inexcusable and disrespectful. There's nothing worse than trying to plow through an email full of chatspeak and trying to figure out what the sender is really saying. The internet has ruined us for spelling and grammar. Nowadays, you can actually pay cold hard cash for an ebook and find it full of typos and grammatical errors. You would never in a bazillion years get away with this in print publishing. I think in about a hundred years from now --if things keep going on the way they're going-- we're all going to be a bunch of illiterate morons.


That's a very extreme way of seeing it, I think.

I used IRC "slang" for years (and I can still do it easilly) but that doesn't mean I can't write properly when needed. I try and do it in this forum (with some success I may add) to be more accurate on my comments and knowing some of us are not as good at English as are others. As me, there are many others who can write in proper English (or other language), but don't do it everywhere.

Nowadays, I use two very different write methods depending of where i'm at. Even on #frihost (our IRC channel at dal.net) I use a readable English (although not as accurate as my forum writing), while at other forums and IRC networks (and even within dal.net on other rooms) I use the oh-so-common IRC "slang" (both in English and Portuguese). I think this is a question of age and most youngsters like to write faster and "cooler". But it wears off with age Wink .

Be Well Cool

P.S. - Found out the reason for the i instead of the I .... I seem to have some problems pressing the Shift key while typing the i (yes, probably a burnt out wiring on my brain Laughing ). I never do that mistake in traditional writing.


I don't think that's extreme at all. If I pay $75 for an ebook, I expect the spelling to be immaculate. Instead, I have yet to buy a single ebook that didn't contain numerous typos, spelling errors and/or some bad grammar. And these are 'bestsellers' I'm talking about. Like I said, in the real world on the shelves at the local bookstore, you NEVER see that. It just doesn't happen. When something is ready to go to print in the real world, the spelling and grammar is perfect.
catscratches
Quote:
I supposed we used to short form everything!!! sms, email etc
I don't even know what sms is an abbreviation for. =P I guess that my english is OK. Abbreviations can be very difficult to understand sometimes, so I likely don't use them.

(I've used backspace quite a few times in this post, trying to get everything right Wink)
panic15
This is very true, simple basic spelling isn't much to ask for is it?

Some post's i have seen are trully unreadable....
exarkun
Of course I agree completely. Spell the correct word makes everything easier to understand. Imagine saying "desert" instead of "dessert". That makes a difference. Plus, firefox have this build in spelling checker that makes sure that you won't spell anything incorrectly, so why are there still cases like that? It is mainly because people are lazy to recheck their posts..
Davidgr1200
I think there are three separate problems here:
1. Laziness. People seem to be in far more of a hurry these days and often do not bother to reread what they have written and correct spelling- (and grammatical-) errors. Really this is a bit strange as it is so easy to correct electronically. When people wrote letters (on paper) it was more difficult to correct but it was done more frequently.
2. Communication. Misspelling a word or using incorrect grammar can often mean that the reader will be given the wrong idea. The classic version of this is the missing out of the word "not" (There is a world of difference between "I do agree with you" and "I do not agree with you"). But there are many examples of where just changing one letter can give a completely different meaning ("You are now my fiend" instead of "you are now my friend" for example.)
3. Readability. Studies have shown that if you spell words incorrectly then it takes the reader a longer time to read and understand the content.

So, if you REALLY want the reader to read and understand what you have written, then it is important to both spell correctly and use correct grammar. Do not underestimate the power of rhetoric.
catscratches
exarkun wrote:
Of course I agree completely. Spell the correct word makes everything easier to understand. Imagine saying "desert" instead of "dessert". That makes a difference. Plus, firefox have this build in spelling checker that makes sure that you won't spell anything incorrectly, so why are there still cases like that? It is mainly because people are lazy to recheck their posts..
The spelling checker is quite irritating when writing both swedish and english often + a spelling checker can't be perfect.
littlegiant
Quote:
3. Readability. Studies have shown that if you spell words incorrectly then it takes the reader a longer time to read and understand the content.


Exactly. Either the writer takes the time spell things correctly and formulate proper sentences or the reader has to take extra time to comprehend what was written. This is the part about respect that I was talking about.
balticJay
i'm just plain rubbish at spelling although i do try to make sure whatever i write be it an email or post is presentable and checked for errors but unfortunately i don't always have the time to do so.
Vrythramax
I also agree with Bockman, I too have been using "IRC-Speak" for years, but that is a totally different medium, things happen very quickly at times and many mistakes can creep in. However, even when there I temper my typing according to the individual. If a new user does not understand the "lingo"...I simply do not use it and take the time type out my sentences...for two reasons....to be understood, and as a show of respect.
littlegiant
I think chatspeak is perfectly alright in chat rooms (or other chat scenarios). My beef is when that starts to spill out into other lines of communication. In a certain respect, chatspeak is becoming the de facto lingo of the internet much to our detriment, I believe.
Lessien
I must agree, having to read a text with spelling mistakes in it, can be really annoying by times. Some people are actually proud on writing mistakes.
I always use my trusted word program with working spelling checker when I type something except it’s a really short text of maximum like 2 or 3 sentences. Even when I’m typing in my own language that is Dutch. I think it’s just a matter of being polite to try and type with as least mistakes as possible. True, the spelling checker doesn’t find every mistake or shows a correct word as being wrong. But even without a checker it’s not that dif to find the really big mistakes by just rereading the text. Except it’s in Dutch, hehe, I think it’s the 3rd spelling change I have seen so far and I still don’t get some rules, they are just not really logical but that’s another matter.
As for the grammar mistakes, even though some are really obvious, for someone who has English as a second or in my case even a 3rd language, it’s sometimes difficult to not only translate correctly your own thoughts but also get the grammar right. I’m know I also make such mistakes but I do try to find and correct them. But some do slip past the control and the spelling checker doesn’t help with that.
Either way, writing without mistakes does take a lot of practice, no matter what language you type in. Here in Belgium the students and the people running companies also complain bout the bad spelling. Right now someone who even graduate from uni often has problems with typing correctly. At the moment the uni has to give classes on how to write to every first year class starting there cause their writing is so bad. But the problem actually starts earlier, I think. In elementary and high school the teachers demand less and less that the students writes things down, so they never really get good writing skills to begin with. And if they do write something it’s indeed in messenger or cell phone type texts.
But there is one thing that annoys me even more by times then making mistakes is people constantly correcting them. I’m also in a chat room and even though I really do my best to type the words completely and correct, sometimes I don’t know how to type one or I press the enter to quickly. But then you have people (of who’s English is also their second language) who correct every word with an air as if you can’t type at all. I know typing with mistakes is annoying but slapping one on the fingers every time they make a mistake is also rather discouraging. But I think I’m starting to stray off topic now.
Either way, I think I better stop talking since spelling is surely a topic where lots of things can be said about.
Jack_Hammer
Vrythramax wrote:
Is it just me or have people just lost the lack of spelling skills? There have been many posts recently where the poster just doesn't even care how they spell. Is this a new fad? The shape of things to come?

I was under the impression that "l33t" was dead. Can't people even try anymore? One person even claimed that colege sux....huh?

I know I make many typos while typing....but at least I try to get it right.

btw...English is not my native language either.


Rolling Eyes
Vrythramax
Somehow I feel I must correct myself here again.

Chat-Speak (or IRC-Speak), all started in the same place (or protocal) and was used by people speaking over sometimes great distances in real-time. At times there were hundreds of different conversations going on all at once in a popular channel, and if you took the time to write out your complete comply/response (long ones were called "novels")...your answer could be lost in the confusion. Many times it took a very quick eye and attention to detail to engage in a satisfying conversation. Many people still use the abbreviated versions that were created there (i.e. LOL, BTW, BRB, ROFL, IMHO, etc.). I also admit to still using these abbreviations (I can't spell "anachronym" properly Sad ).

However...a text-based forum such as Frihost allows the user time to edit his or her posts and they are not lost....unless the user (not poster) does not want to take the time to read the posts immediatly before theirs.
m-productions
My post are a mixture of not knowing how to spell, and typos/multitasking. I watch tv as i type so i end up typing sideways... so my words are already getting funky from that...and on top of this.... I SUUUCK at English... my subject it math... I coudlnt spell if my life depended on it (thank god for firefox's spell check. However, I always read my posts after i Posted them, and if there is something VERY wrong with it.. ill go back and edit it.. but only if its a big mistake.
noobcola
I didn't really notice a trend in misspellings Confused

I try to spell things right the first time for easy readability, or I google the word if things don't look right.
frozenhead
I myself admit that I'm lazy to typing set of full and right spelling of words though. It's good to practice it sometimes especially like FriHost forums that advocates such grammar policy.

**English is not my native language** Wink
zichlone
People are just getting lazy apparently the keys are not close enough for people to hit them. We should have some form of word completion program for theses people as featured on some cell phones?
kevin briggs
my spelling is really poor,i think it is because i went into a trade after school and used my hands rather than what i learnt in school,and now it has been that long i have slowly forgot how to spell.

oh and i also think it has to do with the way we text on our phones and shorten words and use text langauge


probally have spelt a few words wrong in this post
j_f_k
I think the world in general is suffering from auto-correct and spellcheck syndrome, largely brought about my Microsoft Word and related products.

Before these products, you used to have to proof read what you wrote and check for spelling, now you search for red wiggly lines and correct.

It has made me lazy, when I can't think of how to spell a word and I'm in that environment, then I'll just type what I think and look at the suggested corrections if i'm not then I won't bother, which then adds matter to the 'misspelt' ether.

The other thing is the tendancy to see many grammatical mistakes, in particular, missing words sentences as these aren't picked up spelling checker or the rubbish office grammar checker, not two mention wards which are misspelt but are valid spellings for other words. This is a direct result of nobody proof reading anymore
darrenpaul
I would agree with j_f_k post, people have certainly become too reliant on spell checkers from Word and Google
Vrythramax
Jack_Hammer wrote:
Vrythramax wrote:
Is it just me or have people just lost the lack of spelling skills? There have been many posts recently where the poster just doesn't even care how they spell. Is this a new fad? The shape of things to come?

I was under the impression that "l33t" was dead. Can't people even try anymore? One person even claimed that colege sux....huh?

I know I make many typos while typing....but at least I try to get it right.

btw...English is not my native language either.


Rolling Eyes


I appreciate your input...but isn't responding with just icons considered spam??

How about an opinion...it doesn't have to agree with mine.
rvec
it's an icon and a quote Razz

English is also not my native language and I am blessed with firefox spell check. You can see how I would type without if you read the irc chat logs Razz.

The bad spelling is not only a problem on the English forums. Even on the dutch forums, where you would think everyone should know the language becouse it's not as much taught as a second language as English is, there are a lot of problems with grammar and the order of words in a sentence.
andy26
I can sometimes forget to use grammer after using something like msn where you type to quick to place grammer. if im wide awake i can use full grammer and spell words correctly but as soon as i get tired i begin to forget about the grammer suppose it could be lazyness. i also dont think applications such as word processors help when they include spell checking which can make people lazy at spelling correctly.
Agent ME
Azmo wrote:
For everyone who don't have english as their native tounge, it's not easy at all, if you don't talk/hear english every day, it's very easy to make those comon mistakes. I'm from sweden and yes, we do have good education in scool, and plenty of stuff on the TV shown in english, and I've got pretty easy to learn a new language, but not all have. And I do shorten words all the time, I use u instead of you, and ur instead of you'r, it's just something you get used to when you hang around internet alot, chatting or playing games, it has more or less become accepted to shorten words over the internet. And for us who don't have english as our native tounge, it's not that easy to correct it either, since it becomes natural to us.

I've even got a warning from James007 about me shorting words, so I'm realy trying to write as good english as I can.

Anyways, I wouldnt blaim the schools, I would blaim internet, cause internet accepted this way of spelling, not the schools.

You, or at least that specific post is good. No one minds the random type too much or the wrong tense.

What seems to grind everyone is when someone posts...
Teh Internet wrote:
helo everyon tihs place is grate lik prety cool i meen were else do u get gud hostign??? . ?
raine dragon
SpellcasterDX wrote:
Yes, I think it's partly schools' fault cause they don't emphasize spelling enough, so kids get lazy and don't even put in effort. Yes, I'm 14, so I'm included in this category, but I put in effort to spelling. I'll even look up how to properly spell a word if I'm not sure how to spell it. Sure, I make typos (as does everybody), but I don't use textspeak/chatspeak/1337speak/whatever it's called now so much. Except on places where they don't mind it, like on message boards. But in real life I never use any 1337speak. I always use full words, unless they can be abbreviated.


depends on the school. I had very rigorous spelling lessons all through my younger years, including a special spelling focus class because I, unfortunately, have dyslexic dysgraphia. However, despite that I am still able to communicate quite successfully IMHO. Granted, I spend an extra 3 seconds using the built in spellcheck in firefox. previous to the implementation of said spellcheck, I used to spellcheck in MS word before I posted anything.

Thus, to cut a long explanation short; it boils down to laziness, not necessarily a lack of being taught.
Vrythramax
rvec wrote:
it's an icon and a quote Razz

English is also not my native language and I am blessed with firefox spell check. You can see how I would type without if you read the irc chat logs Razz.

The bad spelling is not only a problem on the English forums. Even on the dutch forums, where you would think everyone should know the language becouse it's not as much taught as a second language as English is, there are a lot of problems with grammar and the order of words in a sentence.


I think if you read the rules, you'll find that when responding to, or with a quote, your supposed to actually make some kind of statement in the form of text. Posting with just "smilies" IS spam.
RhysAndrews
By the way, as a non-english-speaking topic-creator, you actually spell things better because you don't yet have the logic of what changes in a words spelling will cause a naturally-english-speaking person to not understand it. What you MIGHT not be good at though is grammar, because you try to speak so simply to get the message across it can easily break the rules of grammar.

So yeah. Things I most get annoyed by is when people use "your" instead of "you're" or "there" instead of "their" or they used the wrong to/two/too.

-Rhys
Vrythramax
RhysAndrews wrote:
By the way, as a non-english-speaking topic-creator, you actually spell things better because you don't yet have the logic of what changes in a words spelling will cause a naturally-english-speaking person to not understand it. What you MIGHT not be good at though is grammar, because you try to speak so simply to get the message across it can easily break the rules of grammar.

So yeah. Things I most get annoyed by is when people use "your" instead of "you're" or "there" instead of "their" or they used the wrong to/two/too.

-Rhys


As I have said, I am not a native english speaker, and I can certainly accept the grammatical errors that are certain to creep up in our text. English is not exactly the easiest language to master. What we are really speaking on in this topic is the distoration of the language, english or otherwise, for the sake of being simply to lazy to try....or is it simple laziness.

Nice post by the way. Cool
m-productions
RhysAndrews wrote:
By the way, as a non-english-speaking topic-creator, you actually spell things better because you don't yet have the logic of what changes in a words spelling will cause a naturally-English-speaking person to not understand it. What you MIGHT not be good at though is grammar, because you try to speak so simply to get the message across it can easily break the rules of grammar.

So yeah. Things I most get annoyed by is when people use "your" instead of "you're" or "there" instead of "their" or they used the wrong to/two/too.

-Rhys


when it comes to the your, and the you're, I will admit, if its not a school project, or something im doing that is very important. i will NEVER use you're, first, people know what your trying to say, and like i said in my other post, im usually doing other things, and have the keyboard at a weird side, and having to hit the ' when my hands are not near it... just gets my hands all out of their grove....so to say. Plus i just dont have time to think of that... like there and their, if im writing real fast, im not going to think of this rule... im just going to type... if i catch it, then ill fix it, but I can understand why that grammar error comes up a lot in forums, people want to type fast and get their point across, and they do.....(hey I just used their and didnt even think about it ...) but at other times.. im just not thinking about it... and i think thats understandable.

Another thing that I dont do.. (all the time) is the I instead of i, usually, once again, im typing fast, and dont think about it, and when I do see it (usually right after i hit the I) I dont feel like going back and fixing it for one letter, plus... hitting shift is just so annoying when its still gana be an I >>

On thing I do for my spelling, I have a rather large vocabulary, the only problem is.. I dont know how to spell about 70% of the words i know =)- so i end up switching out my words, in mid sentence from what I had in my mind to something i can spell, and it turns the sentence into total crap... but I dont catch it, because its still in my head perfect.

also I never add the ' to my don'ts, same reason as the you're i guess....
raine dragon
Vrythramax wrote:


As I have said, I am not a native english speaker, and I can certainly accept the grammatical errors that are certain to creep up in our text. English is not exactly the easiest language to master. What we are really speaking on in this topic is the distoration of the language, english or otherwise, for the sake of being simply to lazy to try....or is it simple laziness.

Nice post by the way. Cool


I have found that the best spelling and the best grammar I see written often comes from people who learned English as a second language, or from those who teach English as a second language. One simply is more likely to pay attention to the structure when one is taking the time to really think about what one is writing. You have to, at least to some degree, think 'ok, this will be in English, not my native language'. That split second of thought will most likely make you more focused on what you are writing. ^_^ I see this all the time with my friend. She writes in very articulate, well formed English, but in her native language she is much less formal. Yet, she learned English while she was still young.
Vrythramax
raine dragon wrote:
Vrythramax wrote:


As I have said, I am not a native english speaker, and I can certainly accept the grammatical errors that are certain to creep up in our text. English is not exactly the easiest language to master. What we are really speaking on in this topic is the distoration of the language, english or otherwise, for the sake of being simply to lazy to try....or is it simple laziness.

Nice post by the way. Cool


I have found that the best spelling and the best grammar I see written often comes from people who learned English as a second language, or from those who teach English as a second language. One simply is more likely to pay attention to the structure when one is taking the time to really think about what one is writing. You have to, at least to some degree, think 'ok, this will be in English, not my native language'. That split second of thought will most likely make you more focused on what you are writing. ^_^ I see this all the time with my friend. She writes in very articulate, well formed English, but in her native language she is much less formal. Yet, she learned English while she was still young.


May I take that as a compliment? Laughing
OutlawSpirit
turth is.. i will shorten words to make it easier

you = u

your = ur

etc etc

but wont spell words wrong on purpose... obviously i can write in the correct manner when needed, so i would say its because of the ease of shortening a word is my reasoning for doing so.
Vrythramax
OutlawSpirit wrote:
turth is.. i will shorten words to make it easier

you = u

your = ur

etc etc

but wont spell words wrong on purpose... obviously i can write in the correct manner when needed, so i would say its because of the ease of shortening a word is my reasoning for doing so.


Possibly you should read http://www.frihost.com/forums/vp-350112.html#350112

Those types of abbreviations are not allowed.
m-productions
OutlawSpirit wrote:
turth is.. i will shorten words to make it easier

you = u

your = ur

etc etc

but wont spell words wrong on purpose... obviously i can write in the correct manner when needed, so i would say its because of the ease of shortening a word is my reasoning for doing so.


geez, ive never seen that that thread, I might need to make a better effert now, however, I havnt really seen that inforced much either. (well some of the points I Have, like "Quote text thats not yours" but not some of the others... ohwell, like I said, I myself will now put a little more effert into it.
Vrythramax
@m-productions

Warnings are not generally made public...but we certainly appreciate your efforts to adhere to the owners wishes. Smile
m-productions
Umm i just want to make it a little clear here (and this is kinda sad that I made a typo on a post about how im going to try harder no to have typos .....) when i said
Quote:

ike I said, I myself will not put a little more effert into it.


i meant to say NOW not, NOT
Vrythramax
m-productions wrote:
Umm i just want to make it a little clear here (and this is kinda sad that I made a typo on a post about how im going to try harder no to have typos .....) when i said
Quote:

ike I said, I myself will not put a little more effert into it.


i meant to say NOW not, NOT


I'm pretty sure it's spelled "effort". Laughing

Just joking Smile
PatTheGreat42
I don't think it's that people can't spell, I think that they're lazy. I think this pops up most with text messages. It takes a lot of work to type out those words on that little pad. I mean, come on, I don't have all day.

Plus text messages put a restriction on how many letters you can use. Although not relevant in short messages, if you're trying to convey a lot of information, sometimes you don't have enough room for without, and only w/o.

I love pancakes. Like, a lot.
Crazy_Canuck
Thanks for the great thread. As an obsessive-compulsive proofreader, I can spot a grammatical or spelling mistake at 50 paces and correct it faster than you can say "typographical error" <--- (That's for the person above who didn't know what "typo" stood for).

Therefore, I must leave this thread before I'm tempted to quote-reply and copy-edit at least half of the previous posts, including those claiming to be sticklers for spelling.

Carry on, folks ... Smile
babumuchhala
If you are someone who's native language is not English, or maybe even if your primary language in school was not English, then I can understand the difficulty in expressing yourself with appropriate words leave alone being grammatically correct, but one can take efforts to improve it. I have quite a friends who studied in NON-ENGLISH mediums but have great command over English.

But if you are someone who did their schooling in English, the I attribute it to sheer laziness and that a big shame.

I did say that its okay to use short forms and stuff while chatting, because one needs to get the message across as quickly as possible. But it really pisses me off, to see people using malformed words and sentences even on their blogs, at least they should read it once before hitting the publish button. Same holds true while posting on the forums. Spending an extra 10 seconds to review your post is an enormous help for your readers. Properly spelled words might not get you any positive ratings but misspelled words and malformed sentences will surely get you negative ratings.

Personally I make it a point to use properly spelled words and make sure the sentence formation is correct. Maybe while typing the whole thing out I dont care that much about spellings but I always do review it at the end to get rid of spelling and grammatical mistakes, and this review almost always takes care of the typos.
Aless
It's the age of technology - I know my boyfriend has told me he never really learnt to spell well because he knows he can always use Spell Check to correct his mistakes. I've always been an excellent speller, so mistakes highly irritate me - that said, even I'm not perfect.

Also, what's with people not learning proper punctuation? It's and its ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!!
bartdou
Lazy, not serious, attitude problem,
Mighty_King
I'm neither because I type perfectly, if you check my posts, but I'm pretty sure that they're just lazy and I don't really blame them. This isn't school, but if they post something that I can't even understand or they're assuming that we can understand that synonym or acronym...they need to get better at their spelling.
Qube
Oh god, how I detest this kind of spelling.
Even on MMO's, I try to make a difference.
Like when I play a support class, and they say "buffs plz".
I often reply "I'm sorry, I only speak english."
That or "What is this plz you speak of?"
It irritates me to no end really.

Sure I'm not the greatest speller or even grammatically correct all the time.
But I take the time to at least make my thoughts clear and precise.
To be honest though, I do use things like lol, imo, rofl and other acronyms.
Still, I will continue to fight against this kind of "language".
"wut r u gon do 2day? u goin 2 ur frnds house l8r? ill c u der."
It makes sense, but wtf, I cry for our English teachers.

Maybe it's a losing battle, as the internet isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Ah well, I've tried my best.
Vrythramax
It's very easy to see when someone is actually making an effort and happen to make spelling errors...they happen to all of us. It is also to see when someone is simply looking for either shortcuts...or just "trying" to be cool.
Fake
initially, i was lazy.

but years of laziness have now resulted in so many doubts. i am just not sure anymore of what i am typing is correct or not, as long as i can post it faster
Vrythramax
Fake wrote:
initially, i was lazy.

but years of laziness have now resulted in so many doubts. i am just not sure anymore of what i am typing is correct or not, as long as i can post it faster


in your case it is no longer laziness but knowledge through rote. You have been doing things the same way for so long, it's how you perceive the should be done. This is not an insult, don't get me wrong, it is mearly an observation.
ca222
Ever considered, the really bad spellers who try to spell properly, are dyslexic?

I am, I try. But I fail alot.
In class the other week, my teacher asked me to write on the bourd and I got most of the text wrong, and they laughed at me! So guess what I did?
I said, "You try being up in front of a class room full of immature kids, who can't even bother trying to come up here and do their best"
They all shut up then didn't they. And I walked to my sit head held high.

I can't let it bother me, thats why I try, I'm not confident but I stood up in front of my class did my best and got it wrong. Rolling Eyes Laughing

I use some typo's like lol and lmso and ect..
But that L337 lot confuse me?
I got somebody saying, "1f U c4n r34d d15 d3n ur g49"
-_-;

I feel ashamed to live in a world full of people who cannot even spell the word, "please."

•Plz
•Plez
•Plze
•Pliss
•Pweese
•Pwz
•Pllllz


(Goes insane and bashes her head against the keybourd)
:]
Vrythramax
@ca222

From the time I first started this topic I have been sympathetic to anyone who actually tries. What you classmates did to was inexcusable and I admire the way you handled the situation. But it is as you pointed out, the degradation of language that was my original meaning with this topic. Some people who have a disabililty such as yours, I can spot them a mile away...I read so many posts between here and on IRC you can always spot someone who is actually trying and someone who is just looking for a shortcut.

I most certainly meant no disrespect towards you nor anyone else who tries (you should see my my typing at 4am in Frihost's chat channel...it's the stuff blackmailers love). I have never professed my english skills to be any better than anyone elses...but for those who care to look, and this included you too, they can see that we are at least putting forth an effort.

Best of luck to you Smile
GSIS
When I went to primary school I was called 'Derek the Dictionary'. I could even out-spell most of the teachers with almost any word.

Now I have to rely on spell-checkers so I guess I've become a little lazy.

Sine of the thymes.
skygaia
First of all, English is not my mother tongue. so it is always difficult to speak or write in English for me.
But when I write in my first language I used to have similar experience.

I think there are many good word program, including micorsoft word, so people don't care about spells any more. smart program could make my writing correct automatically....
Zombie
I think it's laziness. The poster just wants to get those extra points asap... no desire to push the backspace button
Arnie
Too bad for them their acronyms get them less points Mr. Green
Vrythramax
Arnie wrote:
Too bad for them their acronyms get them less points Mr. Green


True, but they believe saving typing and looking "cool" is more important. Wink
windrei
It's the internet which makes the case worse... you know spelling is always a difficulty to most of the students. Just think about the time when you were studying.... and nowadays, internet chatting, like msn, YM, icq.. etc. or some chat rooms, people do not care the grammer and the spelling at all. They just simply express what they wanna say and that's all. i think some years later, all the wrong spellings will become correct... because we cannot distinguish which is correct and which is wrong anymore.
Vrythramax
windrei wrote:
It's the internet which makes the case worse... you know spelling is always a difficulty to most of the students. Just think about the time when you were studying.... and nowadays, internet chatting, like msn, YM, icq.. etc. or some chat rooms, people do not care the grammer and the spelling at all. They just simply express what they wanna say and that's all. i think some years later, all the wrong spellings will become correct... because we cannot distinguish which is correct and which is wrong anymore.


Somehow I doubt Internet slang will become commonplace language, can you imagine if a crowd of people who just paid to see a comedian perform only responded with lol? We wouldn't have many comedians left. Or how about telling your mother/girlfriend/wife/child I"ll brb/bbs/bbl? Your going to run into problems there.

In IRC or IM's a certain degree of shortcutting is acceptable...but In a forum setting, or real-life it's not. We have time to choose our words carefully, and read what we are saying before hitting the SEND button.
An_Apple
Vrythramax wrote:
Is it just me or have people just lost the lack of spelling skills? There have been many posts recently where the poster just doesn't even care how they spell. Is this a new fad? The shape of things to come?

I was under the impression that "l33t" was dead. Can't people even try anymore? One person even claimed that colege sux....huh?

I know I make many typos while typing....but at least I try to get it right.

btw...English is not my native language either.


Well,why not try the auto-corrections services by google,it's good.
or refer to the dictionary online.thank you.good luck!
ConquerSockets
@Vrythramax

Hi,

You are making a pertty good point there! I have a good friend that is an english teacher in his life teaching high school peoples and he said that if a student have access to internet at home and is chatting a lot, he will, after a while, start to be worst and worst in english, because he will be used to type wrongly!

For example somebody that says: You are may say u are or I don't know : I unno etc etc

This is pretty normal if you are over internet to make lot mistakes nowdays! This is why I try my best to always type the full word and write with a correct grammar so I don't forget english!!
Ps. english isn't my native language neither and we are probably better than most of peoples that english is their native language only because they are too lazy on internet and learn wrongly!

Alex. (Alexander Laughing )
Arnie
Sometimes in a forum setting Internet acronyms can be acceptable, but it depends on the forum. Frihost is certainly not a place for it. In my experience, mostly small communities can benefit from allowing more informal language.
chastise
The reason why people these days cease to use proper grammar and vocabulary never really came to mind. I was always under the impression that most humans think it's cool to write like they have a single digit IQ. Either that or they are just too lazy to include the extra letter or to. I mean, I don't think that excluding letters like 'a' and 'e' in the word 'are' will really save you some time. It only takes a few seconds to type each word anyways. Spelling errors I understand, I myself being one who spells words incorrectly a few times here and there. But in my case it is because I think too fast and my fingers need time catching up. Which is shocking really, because I type rather fast. I understand how some people may make simple context errors because English may not be their native language, it is easy to spot that in most. For example, a lot of foreigners with little education of the English language may miss words like "the" and "and." That is understandable, because even without those words they still form adequately coherent sentences. But for those who go spelling girl with a 'u' instead of an 'i'... I really don't understand the logic in that.
Vrythramax
chastise wrote:
The reason why people these days cease to use proper grammar and vocabulary never really came to mind. I was always under the impression that most humans think it's cool to write like they have a single digit IQ. Either that or they are just too lazy to include the extra letter or to. I mean, I don't think that excluding letters like 'a' and 'e' in the word 'are' will really save you some time. It only takes a few seconds to type each word anyways. Spelling errors I understand, I myself being one who spells words incorrectly a few times here and there. But in my case it is because I think too fast and my fingers need time catching up. Which is shocking really, because I type rather fast. I understand how some people may make simple context errors because English may not be their native language, it is easy to spot that in most. For example, a lot of foreigners with little education of the English language may miss words like "the" and "and." That is understandable, because even without those words they still form adequately coherent sentences. But for those who go spelling girl with a 'u' instead of an 'i'... I really don't understand the logic in that.


Now this is an example of a well thought out quality post. Cool Applause

Thank you chastise.
Sir JC Vincent
Lack of spelling skills. hehe. That's what i am. Since i started doing computer programs my spelling skills just fall down. not to mention i'm not very good in spelling before that event occurred. hehe.
biljap
Although English is not my native language I’d never let myself post a message with typing errors. I always use text editor to check spelling and if I make a mistake with tenses or maybe I put an article where I shouldn’t or similar grammar error… It surely won’t be because I wanted to make a sentence sound stupid. I liker English and I study it so I hope I don’t make a lot of mistakes.
Vrythramax
A computer programmer who can't spell.....I think you have a cubicle waiting for you at Microsoft. Sad
Sarcas
As i've played tons of MMO's myself i'm just adding my experiences here

Most bad grammar i've seen is from players from other countries, generally i'm assuming these never learned to say the english 'please' and will resort faster to acronyms (sp?) - also general younger people tend to use it, which adds up for bad generalisation to anyone else.
Personal - when people tell me stuff like 'can u help me with xxx plz' i admit i'd want to throw my head on the keyboard and don't reply, which is actually what usually happens, however, you usually find yourself playing with the same base of people, some you got to know trough others, when you get closer to finding out the personality of people you tend to care less about what they write, cause you know there isn't some 'dumbass' behind it
Arnie
Actually Max, I've seen more language errors in many free softwares than in Microsoft products.
J-Evil
Well most spelling errors or grammar errors are the result of plain laziness, or the person just not knowing how exactly to spell the word(s) or how to properly use them in a sentence.
ninjakannon
ThornsOfSorrow wrote:
I tend to think that a good number of people have a lack of spelling/grammar skills due to laziness. A person can only substitute "2" for "to" or "too" for so long before they mistakenly do the same thing in a school paper or some other document. In some cases, that person may even forget the difference between "to" and "too", since they don't use either of them. And of course there are other examples as well...

What you say makes sense but isn't in fact true in every circumstance. I know a few people who shorten their words on msn all the time - in fact I have one friend who spells half of her words wrongly. Yet she has English language skills that are far above average. She was in my class for AS English (which we took a year early and had half the lesson time of normal AS students) and is now in my A2 English class. She never mixes up her "2"s with her "too"s or anything like that.

Although I understand that some people might get things wrong because of their lack of care when writing online like that I recognise that many do not.

ThornsOfSorrow wrote:
Spelling and grammar skills are both being disregarded, and this doesn't just happen on the internet.

And I think I know why; at least in the UK. Targets, government targets. Why waste time on teaching pupils to spell and giving them a proper grammatical education when the examiners who mark exam papers are told to - in most subjects - interpret misspelt words as best they can instead of just not giving the marks? And guess what; so long as they can write, however poorly, that counts as another pupil / student with writing abilities. So, without being taught proper spelling and grammar skills a student can pass all their exams and their school can say they're meeting targets. And what do they do with the time they're saving from not teaching them these skills? Well, they fill in forms and trying to meet other targets.

Government Targets Kill.

Every time the government sets a target for something then that thing gets worse, not better. Did you know that now in Scotland students are now allowed to use 'text speak' in their English GCSE exams? That is appalling and disgusting beyond... beyond sanity. There is NO WAY anyone, any human at all, with the right morals and values could permit that!
Of course, these bad literary habits are then brought to online forums - such as FriHost. Hence the falling quality of spelling and grammar.

Personally, I constantly endeavour to perfect my grammar - I know that I have a good understanding of grammar, yet at the same time I have a slight 'grammar problem'. By this I mean that I often use commas in places where they are not necessary; I occasionally put in commas where one might pause when talking.
Similarly, if I don't know the spelling of a word I'll look it up - I take pride in actually having control of the language I use. Yet I can understand words that are misspelt, it's just when they're not in any grammatically sensible order that I get confused.
uuuuuu
As a child I was pressured, mostly by my parents, to do well in school. This, of course, included spelling tests. And although it was not very difficult for me to memorize the spellings of 20 words per week or so, I noted that not all of the children in class would score as well as I did. Many doing significantly worse.
This could have been either due to a lack of aptitude for spelling or memory deficiency, which I doubt it was, or more probably it was because of a lack of internal or external pressure to spell well. The kids who didn't spell well in the beginning were the same ones who continued to misspell words throughout school.
Once out of school, there was no more incentive to memorize the spellings of words. And for me, this was compounded by advances in spell checking software. Type teh instead of the? Your word processor will correct this for you without even notifying you of your mistake. So bad habits, neuronal associations, and muscle memories all develop and get stronger over time.
Spelling, in my opinion, is a habit. The more you're exposed to words correctly spelled, and the more you use their correct spellings, the more likely you are to spell properly later.

Reading + attention to detail + practice = good spelling.

In what cases do people think that good spelling is important, and when can it be overlooked provided that it doesn't interfere with the actual message being expressed?

P.S. I didn't spell check this post. Sorry!
mina
Okay, so admittedly most of my posts are riddled with their share of grammatical and spelling errors... I'm not the best at writing, and I tend to overuse elipses. heh. Oh, and I write the way that I would be talking.

I'm really not trying to be lazy... the way I write just tends to be the way I'm thinking, and I try to make my fingers keep up with my thoughts. Of course, I should probably use the spell check if I really want to be making an effort... But by the time I get to the posting part of looking at a thread I've already spent a huge amount of time reading the posts that are already connected to it. Take this thread... I've read a good chunk of the posts. Which, I might say, there are quite a few of. So I take a few shortcuts when I'm writing my response. Oops.

As for the general problem with grammatical and spelling errors... I've been shocked by the level of ... INTENT... there is in some people's writing to get every word spelled wrong. Looking at it, and watching some of these people type, you can see how much more effort it takes for them to write a simple sentence incorrectly. "c mai homiez n ryde 2gethr 2 tha zoo." (yeah, I know it doesn't make sense... it's not supposed to.) I know several people that type this way. I've watched them type, and I know that they can type correctly. I've seen it. But they take the extra time to make their words impossible to find in any thesaurus or dictionary... an adult reading it only gets confused.

I think the main problem is that it's "cool" to be stupid. If you can't spell, then awesome, you'll fit right in if you just replace the letters with things that sound the same. There's more value in pretending you can't spell than in actually taking the time (which, I may add, is remarkably less than that it takes to spell wrong) to type correctly.
Vrythramax
Arnie wrote:
Actually Max, I've seen more language errors in many free softwares than in Microsoft products.


It was meant as a joke Smile

But I wasn't aware M$ had very much free software on the market.
ForceRun
I'm saved I just switched from Netscape to Firefox, and I have to say Firefox 2 is much better than the original. And it comes with a working spell checker! I still make a lot of typos, and sometimes I switch words i.e. witch & which. I know what word I want to use, but that doesn't always make it to the keyboard correctly. I'm a Lanner (Play computer games) and LEET speak is fun at times, but gets old fast. We play around with it a bit, but for the most part LEET speak is dead to the vet. gamers, heck we all use VOIP like Ventrolo now so we don't type as much.
Mr_CEO
I have to agree with J F K, the world in general is suffering from auto-correct and spellcheck syndrome, largely brought about by Microsoft Word and related products.

Before these products, you used to have to proof read what you wrote and check for spelling, now you search for red wiggly lines and correct.

It has made me lazy, when I can't think of how to spell a word and I'm in that environment, then I'll just type what I think and look at the suggested corrections if i'm not then I won't bother, which then adds matter to the 'misspelt' ether.

The other thing is the tendancy to see many grammatical mistakes, in particular, missing words sentences as these aren't picked up spelling checker or the rubbish office grammar checker, not two mention wards which are misspelt but are valid spellings for other words. This is a direct result of nobody proof reading anymore.

But heck, without it I'd never send/receive an email!
ninjakannon
Mr_CEO wrote:
The other thing is the tendancy to see many grammatical mistakes, in particular, missing words sentences as these aren't picked up spelling checker or the rubbish office grammar checker, not two mention wards which are misspelt but are valid spellings for other words. This is a direct result of nobody proof reading anymore.

I hope your mistakes in this paragraph were intentional.
"missing words sentences" should be "missing words from/in sentences"
"two" should be "to"
"wards" should be "words"

If they are intentional errors, very clever, if not: what luck, they're all examples talked about in this thread throw in at highly relevant points.

Mr_CEO wrote:
I have to agree with J F K, the world in general is suffering from auto-correct and spellcheck syndrome, largely brought about by Microsoft Word and related products.

Before these products, you used to have to proof read what you wrote and check for spelling, now you search for red wiggly lines and correct.

While I understand what you're saying I must say that I actually learn spellings from spell checkers. And grammar, well I see to it myself and if I proof read then I quite often change sentence structures around a bit or add/remove the odd bit of punctuation.
gerpg
I can spell fine, its just im usually on so late at night that by the time i get around to writing a decent reply i really couldn't care less about the spelling lol..

Louis.


Woot! this is my 100th Post. Laughing
KronikSindrome
I am kind of lazy when it comes to chats or forrums...usualy it's because I am in a hurry to convey
an idea and figure that as long as it's close to accurate it's understandable...good enough for me...

but when it comes to important thinsg I'm a lot more thourough...

recently I was given a print out of policies for my new job...whoever typed it
obviously did not check it for spelling or grammer at all....so I went through
with my red pen and corrected it Very Happy

for the most part...I can handle people who mis-spell....

what gets to me are people who continualy mis-spell things like their as there
or use an where it should be a and vice versa

like: I went an concert and their was lots of people

(unless english is not ur first language which would make it understandable)
Arseniy
I must say, I was lazy, when I just went to Internet at the first time. I used mobile phone languague, shorters like "2" or "u" etc., but when I joined FriHost, I saw, that as much you write as much you can get frih$ (sorry, that phrase was wrong, I know, but I can't write it right in English Smile ).
So I've called my English knowings and started to write long right-spelled posts.
Zug Zug
I hate it when people type up stuff like.... Hi, how r u? or sup, what r u doin tonit? I think it's laziness, people know how to spell properly, but they decide to skip two letters, (a)r(e) (y)(o)u it's just pure laziness. Also some just don't care. In my humble opinion it makes you sound ignorant when you skip letters-it's not cool. cuz, srsly, r, u, and whevr aren't words. Eh ranting time is over ^_^ have a lovely day!

<3

Meg
Vrythramax
Zug Zug wrote:
I hate it when people type up stuff like.... Hi, how r u? or sup, what r u doin tonit? I think it's laziness, people know how to spell properly, but they decide to skip two letters, (a)r(e) (y)(o)u it's just pure laziness. Also some just don't care. In my humble opinion it makes you sound ignorant when you skip letters-it's not cool. cuz, srsly, r, u, and whevr aren't words. Eh ranting time is over ^_^ have a lovely day!

<3

Meg


Rant away! It bothers me too...or I wouldn't have started this topic. I just have to temper my rants. Wink
medievalman26
I think it is a lack of spelling and a general laziness that contribute to people and they way they communicate online. Obviously I don't have a problem with speeling(it's a misspelling joke I crack myself up sometimes) spelling has a problem with me. No seriously though people online learn to spell!
jabapyth
I spell as well as i can...usually. sometimes i dont feel like capitalizing an 'I' or using an apostrophe, but on the whole I do my best.
Vrythramax
And here I thought this topic had died out. Smile

When I first authored this topic I was not talking about simple grammatical errors of spelling, but the perversion of any language with slang being used as normal speech, most especially Internet slang.

I spend many hours daily on IRC (and for simple history sake....that's where all the "shortening" of words came from) and I deal with Internet slang daily....but this forum is not instant "real-time" chat. We all have a chance to re-read our posts before hitting that "Submit" button. You can even opt to see how your post will look before posting.

So is there really any reason NOT to at least try?
kosecc
I agree. Recently, my friends started picking up the habit of leet speaking. It is just foolish. Some of the references make no sense when compared to what they're really trying to say. I mean, it is not so hard to speak properly, let alone, type properly.
riv_
Excluding those rare cases when someone is just learning the language, I'd have to say it's laziness.
Either the person CAN spell, but chooses not to, or they never took the time to learn to spell in the first place.
Lazy either way.
And annoying.
That said, I'm about the worst typist in the known universe, and am guilty of crimes against English myself!
Byakuya_Kuchiki
Generally I find "L33t" speak to be somewhat annoying. I sometimes though mock "L33t sp34kers" to maybe produce a comical result. What really bugs me is when "L33t sp34kers" try to imply grammar and punctuation into their already horrible grammar and punctuation. Example: "U'd like to buy my items?". I've seen people say "U'd" so many times and I lean back and say "WTF is that?!". Very Happy

Hope I used all them big words in the correct situation. Smile
{name here}
You are not on a crappy cell phone.
You are not on IRC.
You are not on AIM.
You are on a forum.
You have time to spell check and properly format your posts. I would like to understand you when I try to reply rather than interperet cryptic, idiotic, nonstandard symbolics and acronymns. It makes me want to rip my head off every time someone can't write in actual English but have to resort to shortcuts. Even if you're dyslexic, there are built in spellcheckers you can use to fix all your words. Heck, it helps that everything is spelt in a standard way if you're dyslexic so then you don't have to find new ways to write things. I do understand issues with word order if you are foriegn, and that isn't my issue and I'm the last person who would citicize that considering my family immigrated from Eastern Europe and carry a thick slavic accent that makes them hard to understand at times. It just irks me when people can't do simple things like follow the grammar of their native toungue. It irks me even more when they can't spell on their own website especially when they're trying to look professional. Don't be lazy be smart.

Leet is only justafiable for the freedom of speech where you are enforced by totalitarian administrators and moderators to bypass word filters, as that was its original intended purpose for the scene. It is NOT justifiable just to look cool. "Hey, look at me! I'm destroying English grammar because I don't think normal letters look good enough! Isn't it cool?". Even better is when they use foreign characters in usernames so you can't actually read their username.
medievalman26
After thinking about it, spell check on computers also contributes a major part because of the fact that you can misspell a word and it will automatically fix your mistake. Half the time it does give the wrong word but none the less it still adds to the lack of good spelling and grammar.
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