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Magic, Real or not?





kingtendo
Here is a place to discuss Magic and stuff like `Abnormal Powers` .Many people are very mythed about magic and such, and all these `Powers` Like telekeneis. But, is it all a load of bullshit or not?

I myself do not know what to believe, but am more on the side of `This stuff is Bullshit`. Well, come on, is it really possible to bend a spoon with your mind? and lift things off the floor without physically touching it.. Well..

if you do or do not believe in it, STATE your reasons! eg explain a magic trick or a moment in the past where you have seen and say what you think of it and if you have seen any Nitches of glitches to prove that the trick is real. Or if you can't be bothered just say if you believe in this stuff or not.
Gagnar The Unruly
If there was a scientifically satisfactory, parsimonious explanation for how powers such as clairvoyance, telekinesis, spiritual healing, etc., I would be willing to accept them as natural phenomena. However, I believe that such explanations do not and probably will not exist, and that we have a clear enough understanding of the universe at present to rule things like that out. I think the persistence of belief in special powers has to do with human psychology rather than the validity of such a belief.

I believe that our perceptions interfere with our interpretation of reality, but that reality itself is consitent and absolute in its nature. As a practicioner of Aikido, I do believe in the power of the human mind, as well as the power of interactions between minds. These interactions are mediated by natural processes; I do not believe in mind-reading. Amazing and sometimes counter-intuitive things can arise from human interactions, but those things don't require supernatural or pseudoscientific explanations such as ESP, magical powers, or mind-reading.
ocalhoun
I certainly don't have scientific evidence, but I do believe there are things that science doesn't understand yet of this nature.
I believe that because I've noticed that I can do things like that. For example, lay a deck of cards out face down, and I can find any card you ask for by visualizing the card and touching all of them until I get to the one that 'feels' right. It doesn't always work, but it works more often than mere chance alone could.
EanofAthenasPrime
1. Matrix Matrix Smile
2. yep yep Smile
3. nope nope Smile
_AVG_
According to some old traditional priests, some think that there were sciences present in ancient civilizations which have faded away now. What I'm trying to say is, those sciences helped in doing "adnormal things" as you would call them now such as levitating and performing magic tricks.

It could be that the magicians and trick-performers of today know a trifle or a trace of those sciences.
DoctorBeaver
I certainly believe in the existence of "powers" that cannot at present be explained by science.

I read Tarot & I use a method that tells me something about the subject's past before I continue with a future reading. I'm not 1 of those who gives vague descriptions of events that can be interpreted in a variety of ways; I deal in specifics.

For instance, I told 1 subject about a business she used to run with a man who was very close to her. The business was to do with babies and friction in the business caused friction in their private life. This particular woman used to run a nappy (diaper) cleaning business with her husband. She found out that he had been embezzling money from the company and eventually that led to the company being closed down and them getting divorced. I had never met the woman before that day & there was no way I could have known anything about her past.

I told another girl during a reading that she was pregnant. She was stunned because she'd only found out herself the previous day & hadn't even had a chance to tell her boyfriend who was out of the country on business.

On another occasion, I was sitting in a pub with a South African girl. I described her friend's flat in Jo'burg - the decor, furnishings, etc - and even described the view through her window and said there was a store round the corner with bright lights outside it. The only thing she said I'd got wrong was the colour of the 3-piece suite. I stuck to my guns & insisted I was right. A few days later she phoned her friend who told her she had got rid of her old suite & bought a new 1 exactly the colour I'd described. The store I'd seen was a carpet shop with masses of flashing lights around the facia.

Sorry, there were 2 things I got wrong. I said there was a grey BMW outside her garage when in fact it was a grey Merc.
newolder
kingtendo wrote:
Here is a place to discuss Magic and stuff like `Abnormal Powers` .Many people are very mythed about magic and such, and all these `Powers` Like telekeneis. But, is it all a load of bullshit or not?

I myself do not know what to believe, but am more on the side of `This stuff is Bullshit`. Well, come on, is it really possible to bend a spoon with your mind? and lift things off the floor without physically touching it.. Well..

if you do or do not believe in it, STATE your reasons! eg explain a magic trick or a moment in the past where you have seen and say what you think of it and if you have seen any Nitches of glitches to prove that the trick is real. Or if you can't be bothered just say if you believe in this stuff or not.


"Magic"?

Have you tried Ed Witten's, "Magic, Mystery, and Matrix", yet?

http://www.sns.ias.edu/~witten/papers/mmm.pdf

It's a most-probable pointer to where 21st century physics and maths are headed... ed. Very Happy
EanofAthenasPrime
1. nope nope
2. nope nope
3. possibly maybe
XKaktusX
I belive in abnormal,magic and not explain things
Revvion
There are so many things we dont understand yet. Dous magic exist? Do humans have the abbility to bend spoons, i have no idea. But i believe the possibilty exists. But when you say 'Abnormal Powers' you asume that thes powers arent normal and that might be wrong, who knows maybe in the future generations if we dont wipe ourselves out these powers will be normal, if they exist.
greatfire
there is still too much we dont know about the world
Indi
Revvion wrote:
Do humans have the abbility to bend spoons, i have no idea.

Yes, we do. i bend them all the time. Usually not on purpose. Usually.
Gagnar The Unruly
There's an Aikido story about Tohei Sensei, the founder of my style of Aikido. He and some friends were sitting at a table, and one of the friends asked him if he could use his ki to move a salt shaker that was on the table. Tohei Sensei concentrated on the salt shaker for a while (probably trying some Jedi trick), had a realization, and just picked it up and moved it with his hand.

The laws of the universe aren't ours to violate. Our power as humans comes from our ability to understand those laws and principles, and to use them to our advantage. We can accomplish so much with knowledge and awareness -- magical powers aren't necessary.
Coclus
Yes it is all lies. All this stuff does not exist.
polis
No, I don't think magic does exist. Why? Because unlike the existence of God theory, magic defies natural things, like physics.
Lord Klorel
The true existance of magic events will always be a mystery, for some people there will be a reason to see some things that they can't understand that it is magic.

At this point i don't believe in magic because there aren't any evidence that magic should exist. As long that someone can show me any evidence that magic truly excist, i will be disbeliever.

Science is the greatst branch in the world and they will find out what some phenomenons will be.
karysky
I do not believe in magic per se...

But in Kung Fu we learn about the Chi, and this gives you incredible powers. And I believe in those.

They make people do things that seem impossible at first sight!

For example, a kung fu master can "touch" you from a good distance... he can hit you and hurt you several feet away, without once touching you with his actual limbs.

There are also all those who can break bricks and hard surfaces with their bare hands, feet and head!

It's almost like the Force in Star Wars, but more grounded and close to reality, of course.
ktak1
I agree with many of the other posts that man and the discovered sciences we study are not complete enough to explain all the happenings in this universe. I realize that there are basic principles of physics and nature that we assume (and trust) that all things must adhere to. But I believe there are other forces in this world we just do not know about.

I believe there is a God. Can science explain God? Not to the satisfaction of most. I believe God has absolute power as a deity. Is God required to conform to the basic laws of physics and nature? I don't know. But I believe that the laws of physics and nature as understood by God is absolute and correct, whereas the laws that man created out of logic and experience is not.

So to get back to the question at hand... I believe there are other forces in this world that we do not understand and have knowledge of that we categorize as "magic". And magic is only that until we figure it out... then we get to throw it into the science column.

Hey, 20,000 years ago, fire used to be magic, right?
newolder
ktak1 wrote:
I agree with many of the other posts that man and the discovered sciences we study are not complete enough to explain all the happenings in this universe...

...Hey, 20,000 years ago, fire used to be magic, right?


Fortunately, science isn't democratic: you (one) can, does and will continue so to do, 'believe' anything one likes - it doesn't make an iota of difference to reality.

Reality is explained, to any degree, by the toolkit and language of mathematics and SU(10 or 11) Penrose, Steinhardt, Turok et al in particular.

Your last 'Hey' is correct but what remains that isn't explained by 20th century maths and 21st century physics, please? ed.
SyncM
No i don´t. Pepole will only see what they want to see, always. So long some true sceine experiments confirm a power or something it dont exist. Many has been tryed and failed.

By the way i have practics Akido, Karate and many other materials and i have never heard any of these stories above. Ki is focus you foucs your mind breething muscels teknic everything to the perfect move. No hocus pokus dont take any abnormal crap in material art we have already problem with all anti violoec pepole.
Gagnar The Unruly
SyncM wrote:
By the way i have practics Akido...and i have never heard any of these stories above. Ki is focus you foucs your mind breething muscels teknic everything to the perfect move. No hocus pokus dont take any abnormal crap in material art we have already problem with all anti violoec pepole.


I hope you aren't referring to my post. I don't believe in hocus pocus either.
melissareich
I don't believe in magic, but I do believe in ghosts and guardian angles. One time on Ghost Busters, this lady had a flask container that if you filled it with water, shook it, pour it out, you get water. But if you fill it with wine, shook it, and pour it out you get powdered milk. Shocked Then that same lady went out and bought a Halloween a devil skull candle holder. After that all these power outages and car crashes happened only to her. Turns out the thing was only a decorated human skull.
eljormaz
Magic, from my experience, is a phenomenon out of our understanding.

Any of them, if you please.

But, this does not mean we cannot understand it. Actually, it does mean we do not at the moment. But, we are alive.

This means we are changing, we are dynamic.. not static whatsoever. Then, we could actually acquire this knowledge and effectively understand it. This is very easy to imagine or check... simply, any of the human beings living at present completely out of this technology-based societies, like the ones living in a jungle or so... would be amazed of what one can do with a robot arm in a car factory, indeed. We, on the other hand, can be amazed by seeing a shaman extracting the evil energy from a body with the only aid of a dirty knife... that is another technology, if you please, clearly closer to our very nature than a ultra high power embedded microprocessor.

Magic is at a hand for everybody. There is magic in touching the hair of a kid... in seeing a tree and listening to what it is telling... in the practice of meditation... in understanding the forces of nature. Such is magic for me.
Manuel
I am a magician Laughing

I do tricks with cards and coins and that stuff. A few motnhs ago I was really interested in "real" magic because it could help my magicin routine.

Of course, I do not beleive in real magic, it was just for my routine. I can tell you that magic does not exist and that science can explain everything
sondosia
I don't believe in that stuff...

Sure, there's plenty we still don't know about the laws of physics and nature. But I just can't believe in all kinds of "magical" phenomena that violate the laws that we DO know.
SkinnyV
I don't really know, magic kinda piss me off. Sure it's impressing, but all I want to know is how they did it since I know there has to be a trick.
Lord Klorel
i see that a lot people are disbeliver on the point of magic. But someone told here that she believe in guardian angles and ghosts.

well i also believe in it because a few weeks ago, i was driving to my work when a car with high speed turned in the street where i was waiting for my turn.
That car missed on a few inch and everything became black before my eyes. i still see that movie with that car before my very eyes.

I thought on that very moment that my grandmother as guardian angel has protected me against a car crash.
dbhai
Magic is magic so it is magic that waht i believe about it
jwellsy
Magic is BS.
David Copperfield, Chris Angle, Penn & Teller, Houdini, Lance Burton etc.
They are illusionists and masters of BS.
Physics can not be overruled.

I don't consider psychics to be the same thing as magicians.

There are variances in peoples ability to perceive things.
Most people are oblivious of their immediate environment.
98% of all workplace accidents occur because people are unaware of their environment.
In general women are more aware of others feelings then men.
Emotional vampires do exist.
There are people that are more perceptive than I am.

I do have very perceptive hands.
Many times I have rested my hands on someones head and relived a headache,
or on someone shoulder or back to draw out pain.
It doesn't always work, most of the time it does work very well.
I can actually feel the pain drain out the person, into my hand and up my arm.
I am a firm believer in the power of touch.
But, I'm not really convinced about the validity of a Rikki healing.
Maybe it's just too commercial for me.

I also think that interdimentional communication is possible.
In near-death experiences and extreme old age
maybe they actually are in contact with previously deceased loved ones.
The TV show 'Crossing Over' with John Edward freaks me out.
He is a showman, but he does seem to have some kind of a gift.
http://www.johnedward.net/about_John_Edward.htm

I have never seen a persons aura.
But, I have had my picture taken twice with a Kirlian camera.
Once while I was in the middle of a divorce,
and then about 3 years later. The difference was very interesting.


Dowsing is still used to drill at least 80% of all wells in the world.

But the bottom line is,
the better a person is at BS'ing
the more believable their magic/power/stories/sales-pitch become.
KronikSindrome
I think "Magic" isn't a good word for things like that....

paranormal? I suppose makes more sense.....

People who think that anything that can't be explained with scientifical methods doesn't exist (in my
opinion) are ignorant (yes I know that's gunna get some panties twisted but it's just my opinion)
and rather closed minded.

To me, it's silly not to think that things exist that we don't understand, that the human brain, or
psyche, is more powerful than we give it credit for. I am a firm beleiver in mind over matter.....

A: if you mind, it matters
B: our "brains", "psyches", are the very core of what makes up our reality,
why shouldn't it be able to effect that reality in very real, very physical ways....

I also beleive that there are many unseen factors to our existance, what we see in life
is like the tip of the ice burg, physical life is the 10% that sticks out of the water, just because
the other 90% is kept hidden beneath the ocean doesn't mean it doesn't exist.....

and yes I do beleive some people are able to reach beneath that ocean and access, and utilize,
a part of what for most of us is "missing". I think such abilities are few and far between, that
there is a good reason not everyone can utilize these "things", and that, though it may seem
magic to us because we don't understand it, it's really probably no big thing at all....

One example for me of "magic", or a person with abnormal ability, is this one Yogi I read about...
(and I read about this in a SCIENTIFICAL based book, "the Holographic Universe by Michale Talbot)
He could materialize things out of thin air, he would open the palm of his hand and anything he
wished to appear would, people could specificaly request an item and he would materialize it...
he could walk for hours with a steady stream of ash pouring from his palms.....

while this can't be scientificaly understood, it can't be disproven either....

I think an open mind is the best thing in all areas of life...

anyway that's my two cents
newolder
Hi KronikSyndrome,

On an individual level you are correct - anyone can be made to look foolish through trickery, e.g. David Blane Rolling Eyes

However, the species has advanced(?) greatly in its inter-personal communication techniques and it is a falsifiable hypothesis that most human brains can learn from their tutors experiences and knowledge to create new knowledge without recourse to any trickery.

Do your avatar-making skills allow a less-glum-looking image, i wonder? Dancing
breebree
If magic was real would'nt it just be classified in physics or biology or with ESP and the like psychology? I am very sceptical and dont believe in magic, necromancy or any paranormal activity however I think that the human brain is not utilised to its full potential for instance chi, or ki as its also known, all works on clever psychology and when people can train themselves not to feel pain. The brain controls the whole body so its just natural that it can be trained in a manner which manipulates sensation or hightens ability in the different areas of the body. So to this extent I believe in unusual abilities which can be displayed by people who have properly trained their mind.
KronikSindrome
newolder wrote:
Hi KronikSyndrome,

On an individual level you are correct - anyone can be made to look foolish through trickery, e.g. David Blane Rolling Eyes

However, the species has advanced(?) greatly in its inter-personal communication techniques and it is a falsifiable hypothesis that most human brains can learn from their tutors experiences and knowledge to create new knowledge without recourse to any trickery.

Do your avatar-making skills allow a less-glum-looking image, i wonder? Dancing


I don't need magic, I'm a sessy beast. Feel free to compare my avatar to
other images on my personal gallery...which can be found on my web page
insert shameless page advertisement here: http://www.koz.frih.net/Entr.html

on that note, here's some magic for ya: http://www.wyrdwords.vispa.com/halloween/autotype/type.html

Very Happy
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