FRIHOST FORUMS SEARCH FAQ TOS BLOGS COMPETITIONS
You are invited to Log in or Register a free Frihost Account!


Immigrants/Emigrants - what you think?





ainieas
Immigrate - enter a country to settle permanently.
Emmigrate - leave own country to settle in another.


First, comment on what you think about immigrants in your own country and then next comment on what you think about your countrymen settling in another.

I brought this topic up because immigration has been in the news a lot recently. I believe in times to come all kinds of regional boundaries will cease to exist. National boundaries may still exist though. These also raise questions about jobs and labour prices.

Post your thoughts.
ocalhoun
Completely in favor of both.
If you don't like your country for reasons of economy/government/whatever you should by all means leave it for one you like better.
I'm also in favor of my country (USA) opening the borders again. All legitimate immigration should be accepted, no matter what the effect on the economy (which will probably turn out to be a good effect because it is in everyone's best intrest for it to be so).
Reasons:
1: It is closer to the prinicples on which the nation was founded.
2: It would let border guards stop terrorists and smugglers instead of people who just want to make a living.
3: Illigal immigration would cease, meaning that all immigrants who worked would have to pay taxes and work for at least minimum wage, just like the rest of us. (Though they, just like 'the rest of us' would probably try to avoid or evade the taxes part frequently.)
Helios
Don`t know if this fact is important, but I am an immigrant myself. Immigrated with my family to Israel back in the 90s.

Anyway, I think that immigration should be allowed only until the state can`t "hold" the amount of immigrants. That is only if the immigrants are not in mortal danger where they are immigrating from, because if that`s the case, in my opinion, a state should at least serve as a hosting place for those people.

About emigration, well, I support it. OK, so I`m not a big Zionist, but still, this country has it`s problems, and I will not think twice before leaving it if I feel that my family and me are in danger.
DoctorBeaver
According to council figures, 10% of the population in the town where I live is of Eastern European origin. Whilst I'm all in favour of cultural mixing, it is causing a problem where employment is concerned.

The Eastern Europeans will take very low paid jobs, or do jobs at lower wages than would a UK native. This is having the effect of depressing wages across the board yet, at the same time, living costs are still rising.

I work for a residential letting company and we have quite a few Eastern Europeans as tenants. They are quite happy to live in 1 room - basically, that's all the wages they're on will allow. But is it fair to expect a UK native to have to live the same way simply because wages are remaining static, or even being adjusted downwards, due to the number of Eastern Europeans in the town?

This situation is causing quite a lot of resentment among blue collar workers in the area as wages here are lower than in any other town in the area while rental costs, house prices, council tax etc are just as high.
ocalhoun
DoctorBeaver wrote:

I work for a residential letting company and we have quite a few Eastern Europeans as tenants. They are quite happy to live in 1 room - basically, that's all the wages they're on will allow. But is it fair to expect a UK native to have to live the same way simply because wages are remaining static, or even being adjusted downwards, due to the number of Eastern Europeans in the town?

This is the same problem we have with Mexicans. The real solution is for people (like you) to stop demanding preferential treatment because of where you were born. You have to either become willing to work for less or you have to make yourself valuable enough for companies to pay you more than others. The government shouldn't try to stand in the way of economics.

If you really are better than them, you should be able to find a company that will realize this, and hire you for what you are worth.
If you are not really better than them, why do you deserve a higher salary?

Sure for a time the cost of living will exceed wages with the influx of cheap labor, but soon enough, when many people have less money, the cost of living will go down to match.
DoctorBeaver
No it won't. All that's happening around here is that rich people are buying all the property.

I'm not asking for preferential treatment. The point is that when a UK native's standard of living drops because wages are being depressed due to immigration, it causes friction & resentment. You can take the "holier than thou" attitude if you want and say "The sensible, civilised way is to live with it without complaint" but unfortunately that doesn't cut the mustard in the real world.
Drawingguy
I didn't interpret what he was saying as having, as you said, a 'holier than thou,' sense to it. He cited a tenet of capitalism- supply and demand. Okay, so there may be a surplus of people in a certain field, which leads to a drop in wages. But what you're saying, when it boils down to it, is "I want more money." Reasonable- who doesn't? But there has to be a reason to be paid more. A larger population (while it does use more jobs), creates more jobs, out of the sheer fact that there are more people.

At the same time, I empathize with your problem. Talking about shifting fields of work can't really help if you're five-ten-twenty years into a profession. I don't know what to say to that.

As an immigrant (or emigrant, wherever your reference point is), I am strongly in favor of both. I left my native country with my family due to several reasons, with severe crime being one of them. As such, I feel that people are entitled to leave, if only to escape that. I'm biased, though, so does it matter what I say?
ainieas
DoctorBeaver wrote:
They are quite happy to live in 1 room - basically, that's all the wages they're on will allow. But is it fair to expect a UK native to have to live the same way simply because wages are remaining static, or even being adjusted downwards, due to the number of Eastern Europeans in the town?

This situation is causing quite a lot of resentment among blue collar workers in the area as wages here are lower than in any other town in the area while rental costs, house prices, council tax etc are just as high.


So do you think the natives have to accept the situation as-is or must there be some kind of laws safe guarding the rights of natives in place?
Aless
I am an immigrant, so anyone doing anything illegal is more than irritating. Respect the people who go through the time & effort to immigrate legally, but punish those who don't bother going through proper channels. There's a time & place for everything.
Davidgr1200
I think you should treat a particular person according to how they behave. It should not matter if they are an immigrant or not. I do, however, object to rich people exploiting poorer people and trying to turn them against each other.
rafifaisal
Ha great topic...
Actually I would like to emigrate in the near future.
Currently I am living in Belgium. My parents emigrated from Pakistan.
I just don't find my turn in Belgium. I don't know what it is. The weather, the people, economy,...
Still looking for a nice country to go to though.
Any suggestions are welcome.
ainieas
rafifaisal wrote:
Ha great topic...
Actually I would like to emigrate in the near future.
Currently I am living in Belgium. My parents emigrated from Pakistan.
I just don't find my turn in Belgium. I don't know what it is. The weather, the people, economy,...
Still looking for a nice country to go to though.
Any suggestions are welcome.


How about Pakistan! Laughing
rafifaisal
Well Pakistan wouldn't be so bad. But I am looking for a European country to start off with
DoctorBeaver
DrawingGuy - I apologise for not having expressed myself more clearly. I should have said "One can take...".

I am not against immigration (I have lived & worked abroad), but if the Eastern Europeans were not here working for such low wages then local employers would have to pay an acceptable rate.

Think of it this way. I have a job that needs doing. I know that if I pay less than 6 per hour, I will not get anyone to do that job. So that is what I pay. But if, suddenly, there are hundreds of people who will do that job for 5 per hour then I will have no reason to employ someone at 6 per hour to do it. So, anyone who needs to earn at least 6 per hour will not be able to get a job with me.

But other local employers have seen that I only have to pay 5 to get the job done, so they decide that is all they will pay also. Result? The local economy gets depressed & the employers make more profit.

Does no-one else think there has to be something wrong there?
catscratches
Is there much to think about it? I don't care. They have the right to do what they want. Why would I care?
justnewbie
I hate illegal immigrants. Very much, maybe due to their presence in my country. They increase crime rate, mostly stealing, sometimes steal wires, water and electriciy, causing nuisance to utility service. Worst case is, they thought the local hospital are built for them, they flocked the medical centre leaving local citizens to go for private hospitals and clinics.
karysky
I have nothing against immigrants.

What I don't like though is when they impose their culture on ours. I mean, ok, I welcome you here, I accept your religion and your customs, but don't tell me how to live in my own country.

Nowadays, we hear a lot about deals that are made so that they can live by their customs, but it makes me a bit angry. If you like your way of living so much, than why bothering to change country to live the exact same way you were living in your own country?

Personally, if I go into another country, I'll live by their customs. That's what I think.

But still, I've nothing against immigrants, my two best friends are arabic and turkish.
shorty18
justnewbie wrote:
I hate illegal immigrants. Very much, maybe due to their presence in my country. They increase crime rate, mostly stealing, sometimes steal wires, water and electriciy, causing nuisance to utility service. Worst case is, they thought the local hospital are built for them, they flocked the medical centre leaving local citizens to go for private hospitals and clinics.


Well we hate you too. I think everyone should have just as much freedom as everyone else. I mean this world is supposedly 'the land of the free.'
I think this country is bullshit and I would leave this country if i had the choice. When I get older I plan on moving to canada or europe. I hate USA with a passion. I mean, comared to other places it's heaven. But it's my life, and I hate having to follow rules of the government and live everyday without having a choice on what I do. I recently discovered that the president does not give a shit about our country, he never did. His ass is just being greedy and try to make a dollar out of fifteen cents. One example that I can think of is the Marijuana situation. How it's illegal, but heres one thing... We want to save the forests.. so why not make paper out of hemp plants and save the forests? Why not let cancer patients have access to proper medicines? Okay, well i'm getting wayyyy off topic. anyways........


I think that eventually there will be a time when the borders will be opened ' but still monitered ' and people will be free to go and come as they please. When peoeple think of immigration they usually think of thousands of mexicans hording over the borders to come over here and take over our country and to steal our jobs. What the hell, are you guys stupid? They aren't trying to steal our jobs, they are trying to make money for themselves and their family so they don't end up dying like they would have if they stayed in their home country. My dad is an illegal immigrant from El Salvador, he had to swim 2-3 rivers to get here. The reason he came here, was to start his own family in a safer enviroment so we could grow up and be healthy. He also came to the USA to make money for his family in El Salvador 'which by the way is struggling and can hardly make enough money for food for their kids' to spend on food, clothes, things that children should have, but don't. In my opinion, I think immigration is okay to a certain point. But what I'm trying to say is people shouldn't just think of all immigrants as animals coming to the USA just to take over our area. They are doing it to help others of their family. You know you would try and do the same thing if you were in their position. So don't point your fingers at people accusing them, your not perfect either ya know.
noobcola
Dealing with the immigration issue in the U.S., I am really confused as to whether I should be against it or for it.

Some people would say that immigrants drive up crime, health care costs, and run down the economy. They take up jobs because they can work for a lower wage.

But there's the counter-argument that it is morally wrong to deny someone a chance to work for a decent wage in this country to support his/her family. Most immigrants would be glad to take jobs Americans do not want, and might help the economy.

My parents were immigrants. They did not have the intention to commit crime when coming into the U.S.; all they wanted was to give me a chance at a better life.
OutlawSpirit
personally im not fussed.. i think ill leave my country and move to another when i get the chance... theres more to life than being stranded in one place.. as for people entering my country, no worries... as long as they put in work and deserve to be here.. then im good with that
XeiLioN
I guess I kinda have mixed feelings on the matter...

I believe letting people come into the United States IS benefitial, to an extent, but only for those who are actually going to make an impact by making the country better. We already have enough border jumpers and people working illegally with dirt poor wages, taking away potential jobs for legal citizens. Making them legal is not going to stop that, although possibly reduce it in numbers.
ocalhoun
^I'm not really worried about that. Most of them who go over the border work in unskilled labor, and any who take the time to get an education and a better job do so with the intent to make as much money as everybody else does with that job.

I would like to see immigration go up, and minimum wage go down. It would help make the USA globally competitive again, and fewer jobs would be shipped overseas.
James007
I hate the fact immigrants are stigmatized in Belgium. I'm a native Belgian, but people from Turkey and Morocco aren't quite welcome in Belgium, as they bring a lot of juvenile crime with them. And YES it is true, but that doesn't mean all those people are bad. Maybe they should do something against their children misbehaving, that would certainly help resetting their image.
ForceRun
It is a hard subject, not a black and white matter at all.

Fact: This country (USA) was and is founded from immigrants.

Fact: We have changed the way we are open to immigrants.

Fact: USA wouldn't be stabble or smooth running with out some kind of control on immigrants.

With that said, I believe it is our right and responsiblity to improve our nation. Not to run away from the problems but make the changes in government to improve to condistion of life. In some ways that is how the world is different, there is little land left unexplored, the americas were open, and people spreading out back then. They didn't settle the land the best way but that is another discussion. The situation now is people changing their locations to escape their governments or life styles. They need to stay and help change. That is how I feel about life.
justnewbie
I'm not talking about USA, I'm talking about my country. I don't mind if they come here for job opportunities, as you've said they're finding money to survive.. or help their family members at home. ONE IMPORTANT POINT; WHY THE HELL YOU COME HERE ILLEGALLY AND YOU DO YOUR VIOLENT CRIME OVER HERE??

Try to imagine this case; 10 years ago the population were 100,000 local and 20,000 illegal immigrants..that's OK I guess..and government ignores them, they're trying to make out of a living as you say, but imagine now; 200,000 local and 250,000 illegal immigrants. Immagine the town centre flocked by illegal immigrants, and the local people had to create new settlement far away from the town centre; in my town's case, 4 miles away from the town. Going downtown means feared being robbed by them to the locals..and here's what's in their mind "this isn't our land folks, why the hell should we care about the civil, cleanliness or whatsoever that happens here..we're just trying to survive you know".. City image is ruined, tourism industry going down.. economy doomed... young people striving to immigrate to other towns while these illegal immigrants multiplying like some sort of virus.

If you like free land of such..why don't you go to Antarctica..freedom's limitless over there. Nations have their own laws, you come here, you follow the rule dude. Laws to mature-thinking people is used to preserve peace and harmony, not to limit citizens freedom. It's all logic.

shorty18 wrote:
justnewbie wrote:
I hate illegal immigrants. Very much, maybe due to their presence in my country. They increase crime rate, mostly stealing, sometimes steal wires, water and electriciy, causing nuisance to utility service. Worst case is, they thought the local hospital are built for them, they flocked the medical centre leaving local citizens to go for private hospitals and clinics.


Well we hate you too. I think everyone should have just as much freedom as everyone else. I mean this world is supposedly 'the land of the free.'
I think this country is bullshit and I would leave this country if i had the choice. When I get older I plan on moving to canada or europe. I hate USA with a passion. I mean, comared to other places it's heaven. But it's my life, and I hate having to follow rules of the government and live everyday without having a choice on what I do. I recently discovered that the president does not give a shit about our country, he never did. His ass is just being greedy and try to make a dollar out of fifteen cents. One example that I can think of is the Marijuana situation. How it's illegal, but heres one thing... We want to save the forests.. so why not make paper out of hemp plants and save the forests? Why not let cancer patients have access to proper medicines? Okay, well i'm getting wayyyy off topic. anyways........


I think that eventually there will be a time when the borders will be opened ' but still monitered ' and people will be free to go and come as they please. When peoeple think of immigration they usually think of thousands of mexicans hording over the borders to come over here and take over our country and to steal our jobs. What the hell, are you guys stupid? They aren't trying to steal our jobs, they are trying to make money for themselves and their family so they don't end up dying like they would have if they stayed in their home country. My dad is an illegal immigrant from El Salvador, he had to swim 2-3 rivers to get here. The reason he came here, was to start his own family in a safer enviroment so we could grow up and be healthy. He also came to the USA to make money for his family in El Salvador 'which by the way is struggling and can hardly make enough money for food for their kids' to spend on food, clothes, things that children should have, but don't. In my opinion, I think immigration is okay to a certain point. But what I'm trying to say is people shouldn't just think of all immigrants as animals coming to the USA just to take over our area. They are doing it to help others of their family. You know you would try and do the same thing if you were in their position. So don't point your fingers at people accusing them, your not perfect either ya know.
WickedGravity
I emigrated to Canada about two and a half years ago from the United States and haven't looked back.

My feelings in regards to immigration into Canada are the more the merrier. The country is better governed and better equipped for a large influx of people than the United States ever has, or unfortunately ever will be.

I am not suggesting a massive migration of the native population of course, my reasons for moving are unique, but once you see the difference in another country than the United States, it is an undeniable fact after that.

The system in the United States is flawed and needs to be fixed by a comprehensive immigration bill that will allow for everything from family credit, language credit, migrant work visas and a few dozen other particulars.
firsttimedad
I lived in the UK most of my life, before moving out to Thailand early 2006..
In the UK I constantly moaned about immigrants, coming to my country and taking jobs/ resources / sponging from the state / not integrating .. .you name it..

Don't get me wrong, I am not a racist, no subscribe to any of the ideals of those political biggots who seem to do more harm than good.. I was just a run of the mill brit who was sick of feeling like a visitor to my own country and watching my own civiil rights being dissolved to make way for the rights of those entering my country..

Like I said, I moved to Thailand last year, and got a job (thus depriving a "local" of a job).. BUT the main differences are :

I intigrate : I have very few ex pat friends and actually live with a Thai family
I am making an effort to learn the language
I eat the local food
I follow local customs and DO NOT IMPOSE my religious beliefs of ideals on those around me.. .

I am doing what most immigrants to the UK should have been forced to do years ago, instead of letting the government work for them to fulfill their every whim and desire, hand out cash and houses to those that don't deserve it... they should have been making plans to educate and integate..

The problem with the UK now is that there are so many immigrants that dont integrate the government are almost powerless to do anything about them
filet
I'm only opposed to the idea of someone immigrate or emigrate when they cause trouble to the new place. Such as my country, I believe crime patterns here are unbelievable - the weapons being used, the operations, the reason behind it. And also the social problems cause by them !!! They acted such way because for the sake of surviving either for their business, clan etc.

One news that shocked me when this construction worker - an immigrant kidnapped a local woman-she's only 19 and convinced others - his co-worker that she's his wife because he likes the girl ??? I know this is only a common mad man loves a girl story but this girl didn't know that guy. The girl when found was in the state of being hypnotized and clueless what had happened to her!!!

or should I say mystically follow whatever the guy said or asked to sort of like "voodoo" don't know the correct term and to regain her back to her usual, an elderly or wise person has to perform some ritual.

I don't even believe this stuff but it had happened!! I can't believe this happened when I thought someone can only harm you physically but not in this kind of practice.

Seriously do respect the place, culture etc you're going to immigrate and leave behind those weird stuffs from your country !!!!
eggg
Totally in favor of both.

In America, everyone is an immigrant. Except, of course, those few left over from our happy history of genocide...

The point is, humans have been migrating since they came into existence. It doesn't do much good to try and stop people from following the best source of resources available to them. Suffering is all it will create.

But of course, the current immigration debate in America ultimately stems from the passage of NAFTA, which has made it basically impossible to live as a traditional family farmer in Mexico. Now, the best source of resources for many Mexicans is across the border. Really, industrial agriculture and the huge subsidies it receives from the US government are the problem. But they don't talk about that in the media, because industry owns the media. Far preferable from their view to simply stir up resentment against brown people...
Related topics
Reply to topic    Frihost Forum Index -> General -> General Chat

FRIHOST HOME | FAQ | TOS | ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SITE MAP
© 2005-2011 Frihost, forums powered by phpBB.